Orthodox Christianity

Started by milos, January 27, 2018, 06:25:38 AM

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Solar

Quote from: valley ranch on March 25, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
Greetings Milos ~ I am also Orthodox Christian ( Armenian )  ```

Just read you posts ~ some of it anyway ~ I think ~ I know what you were saying ~ but ~ at times ~ you ~ well ~ were not saying it ```

Orthodox Christianity ~ is part of the "Universal Chruch " The word Catholic = Universal ```

The Roman Church ~ took on the name Catholic ~ implying they were the Universal Church ~ not a part or member of the Universal Church ```

And as you said ~ deciding that the Roman Pope was the head of the Universal Church ~ Meant that the bishop of Rome was ~ well ~ chief bishop of all bishops ```

I went to Catholic school ~ in the U.S. ~  What the Roman church uses as verification is : Mathue 16: 18


ով ես ասում ես, ես եմ    Դուք Քրիստոսն եք   
Դու քարը ես, բայց այդ ժայռի վրա ես կկառուցեմ իմ եկեղեցին
ով ես ասում ես, ես եմ ~

Christ asks Peter : Who do you say I AM ~ Peter answers: "You are the Christ "~ Jesus says: You are a stone ~ using : (Cepha in Aramaic and Petros in Greek, meaning "Rocky"), promising to build his church on this "rock" (also cepha in Aramaic and petra in Greek).

Petro meaning stone ~ Petra meaning great mass of stone like a mountain or ledge of rock ~ ( That I AM THE CHRIST)

On the Fact that I AM the Christ ~ I will build My Church ```

--------------------------------------------------

Milos ~ did I over or under state this ~ please let me know ```

I am happy to have met you here  ~ thank you for opening this thread ```

Welcome, Valley Ranch. :thumbup:
How in the world did you find this obscure thread in all of the Internet? :biggrin:
I like Milos, he brings a wonderful new perspective to the forum.
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milos

Quote from: valley ranch on March 25, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
Greetings Milos ~ I am also Orthodox Christian ( Armenian )  ```

Just read you posts ~ some of it anyway ~ I think ~ I know what you were saying ~ but ~ at times ~ you ~ well ~ were not saying it ```

Orthodox Christianity ~ is part of the "Universal Chruch " The word Catholic = Universal ```

The Roman Church ~ took on the name Catholic ~ implying they were the Universal Church ~ not a part or member of the Universal Church ```

And as you said ~ deciding that the Roman Pope was the head of the Universal Church ~ Meant that the bishop of Rome was ~ well ~ chief bishop of all bishops ```

I went to Catholic school ~ in the U.S. ~  What the Roman church uses as verification is : Mathue 16: 18


ով ես ասում ես, ես եմ    Դուք Քրիստոսն եք   
Դու քարը ես, բայց այդ ժայռի վրա ես կկառուցեմ իմ եկեղեցին
ով ես ասում ես, ես եմ ~

Christ asks Peter : Who do you say I AM ~ Peter answers: "You are the Christ "~ Jesus says: You are a stone ~ using : (Cepha in Aramaic and Petros in Greek, meaning "Rocky"), promising to build his church on this "rock" (also cepha in Aramaic and petra in Greek).

Petro meaning stone ~ Petra meaning great mass of stone like a mountain or ledge of rock ~ ( That I AM THE CHRIST)

On the Fact that I AM the Christ ~ I will build My Church ```

--------------------------------------------------

Milos ~ did I over or under state this ~ please let me know ```

I am happy to have met you here  ~ thank you for opening this thread ```

Hi, Valley Ranch, nice to meet you. Maybe we should point out that the Armenian Church is Oriental Orthodox and not Eastern Orthodox, because there are some differencies in the beliefs, for example, the Armenian Church is miaphysite, while the Eastern Orthodox Churches are dyophysite.

Briefly:
Dyophysitism is the Christological position that two natures, divine and human, exist in the person of Jesus Christ;
Miaphysitism is a Christological formula holding that in the person of Jesus Christ, divine nature and human nature are united in a compound nature, the two being united without separation, without mixture, without confusion and without alteration;
Monophysitism is the Christological position that, after the union of the divine and the human in the historical incarnation, Jesus Christ, as the incarnation of the eternal Son or Word (Logos) of God, had only a single nature.

Thank you for further clarifying the "Catholic issue". I said that Catholic meant Universal because that came first in my mind. I meant universal by the Church doctrine, that all of the Eastern Orthodox Churches have one universal Christian doctrine which gives the correct glory to Jesus Christ. But I obviously messed up with it, and Dave gave the right explanation, it means that each diocese is whole and complete Body of Christ. And therefore, that all dioceses are equal, and all bishops are equal. And so, the Roman Catholic Church is anti-Catholic in reality, and the Pope in Rome has hijacked the Church from Jesus.

I was actually hoping that someone who knows more than me will also join this thread to teach me better, I was not trying to be looking smart or to be talking to myself, lol. It is difficult for an "ordinary believer" like me, who wants just to be faithful to Jesus, when he tries to get more deep into the doctrine of his Church, and then encounters with things like "dyophysite" and "monophysite", it's like "give me a break, I just want to be a Christian", but, one must understand what are his beliefs. I wish Dave joins with more engagement.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

milos

Quote from: Solar on March 25, 2018, 06:06:09 PM
I like Milos, he brings a wonderful new perspective to the forum.

Ha ha, thank you, Solar. I hope that "wonderful new perspective" is not an euphemism for "being annoying", ha ha ha. I am trying to bring some original topics and ideas, and I always think like "will he boot me now or nah, later". :smile: Thank you for making this place feels like home.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

Solar

Quote from: milos on March 26, 2018, 06:44:02 AM
Ha ha, thank you, Solar. I hope that "wonderful new perspective" is not an euphemism for "being annoying", ha ha ha. I am trying to bring some original topics and ideas, and I always think like "will he boot me now or nah, later". :smile: Thank you for making this place feels like home.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No, I was serious. You bring a different perspective to everything you post, not something Americans would normally hear.
I think the only time we ever disagreed, was when you challenged the term "Conservative, which has an entirely different meaning in Europe.

But beyond that, we align in core values and only differ in their nomenclature.
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supsalemgr

Quote from: milos on March 26, 2018, 06:44:02 AM
Ha ha, thank you, Solar. I hope that "wonderful new perspective" is not an euphemism for "being annoying", ha ha ha. I am trying to bring some original topics and ideas, and I always think like "will he boot me now or nah, later". :smile: Thank you for making this place feels like home.

I appreciate your insight also. It is difficult to get unbiased news about Europe in the US. You bring us what the normal man in the street is thinking.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

milos

Quote from: Solar on March 26, 2018, 07:29:29 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No, I was serious. You bring a different perspective to everything you post, not something Americans would normally hear.
I think the only time we ever disagreed, was when you challenged the term "Conservative, which has an entirely different meaning in Europe.

But beyond that, we align in core values and only differ in their nomenclature.

:smile: :smile: :smile: Ha ha, thank you once again. For a foreigner, it is always difficult to achieve the real balance between being interesting and being annoying, and it is also not easy to figure out what kind of language to use, and do we even think of the same terms in the same way.

The issue with "conservative" is that is has different meaning in every culture, while the "progressives" are everywhere the same.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

milos

Quote from: supsalemgr on March 26, 2018, 08:00:02 AM
I appreciate your insight also. It is difficult to get unbiased news about Europe in the US. You bring us what the normal man in the street is thinking.

Thank you, I appreciate that. (And especially for acknowledging me being normal, ha ha.) I believe that the lack of real information can be dangerous and even fatal sometimes, so I am trying to bring some true information, and especially explanations, although one can't be completely objective and unbiased, but you are probably already aware of that fact.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

Solar

Quote from: milos on March 27, 2018, 08:16:53 AM
:smile: :smile: :smile: Ha ha, thank you once again. For a foreigner, it is always difficult to achieve the real balance between being interesting and being annoying, and it is also not easy to figure out what kind of language to use, and do we even think of the same terms in the same way.

The issue with "conservative" is that is has different meaning in every culture, while the "progressives" are everywhere the same.
Agree. The very meaning of Conservative translates to conserving, one generally in support of traditional values, not quick to change, but not adverse to slow change either, just prefers that change be taken slowly so as to adapt and absorb and not disrupt societal norms.

Progressive, liberals, etc, all share a common belief in big govt in control of every aspect of one's life, Marxism.
Conservatives believe in an independence from govt.
Literally a division between people that can't function on their own, to those that prefer self-sustenance.
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milos

Quote from: Solar on March 27, 2018, 08:42:41 AM
Agree. The very meaning of Conservative translates to conserving, one generally in support of traditional values, not quick to change, but not adverse to slow change either, just prefers that change be taken slowly so as to adapt and absorb and not disrupt societal norms.

Progressive, liberals, etc, all share a common belief in big govt in control of every aspect of one's life, Marxism.
Conservatives believe in an independence from govt.
Literally a division between people that can't function on their own, to those that prefer self-sustenance.

I was thinking before of Conservatism and Progressivism regarding Christianity, and you have made me a good intro. For example, if we compare the Eastern Orthodox Church with the Roman Catholic Church.

Conservative very accurately relates to the Eastern Orthodox Churches. They support traditional values. They are not quick to change. They are independent and self-governing, and have no supreme leader on Earth, but a college of fundamentally equal bishops, whose statements are very slow to implement, and need to be tested and confirmed in practical life, so that all believers can adapt and absorb them. Eastern Orthodox faith is more of a dialogue between the believers and the clergy, there are no directives from the clergy, but rather advices, which a believer is free to accept or decline, but also to take the consequences of his choice. But the believers can advice the clergy, too, the most modern example of that being the issue of ecumenism with the Vatican, when some of the clergy have become very close to the Pope, but the believers are protesting it, and advicing them to leave any ecumenical dialogue.

On the other hand, the Roman Catholic Church exactly resembles of Progressive. They have the Pope in Rome as their supreme leader who is in control of every aspect of the life of the believers. Roman Catholic bishops can't function without the Pope. The Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra on the subjects of faith and morals, so his statements are not to be tested and confirmed in practical life, but they are in essence "Marxist" directives which all believers must accept as the Church teachings. And so the Roman Catholic Church has even encountered some quick revolutionary changes at times.

Speaking of the various Protestant denominations, I really don't know much about them. I just wonder why the Protestant Reformation was needed at all, why those who opposed the Pope didn't come to the Eastern Orthodoxy. Because we criticise the Pope in the same way, I believe at least. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura itself is essentially wrong, because Jesus founded the Church, and he said that his disciples will need to eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have eternal life, and when the Church was founded on the Pentecost, there were no Holy Scriptures of the New Testament whatsoever, there were just Jesus and Holy Spirit and Apostles and the Church. So, the Church comes first, and the Scriptures come second, with the central part of the worship of Jesus being the Holy Communion - eating his flesh and drinking his blood - rather than reading and understanding the words of the Bible. We should notice that when taking the Holy Communion, we don't eat just parts of Jesus' flesh and drink just drops of his blood, but each Holy Communion is whole and complete Body of Christ, the same way each diocese is whole and complete Body of Christ. Protestant Reformation certainly does look even more progressive and revolutionary than the Roman Catholic Church.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

milos

I truly feel I have the responsibility to share this. It is an old recording, probably taken from a VHS, but it still works. Serbian tenor Dragoslav Pavle Aksentijević sings Serbian Orthodox Christian chants at the atrium of the National Museum in Belgrade on December 20th 1985. These are short prayers, like "Hallelujah!", and "Taste and see that the Lord is good!". I apologize for they are not in English, I believe they are in Hebrew, Greek, and Old Church Slavonic. This is the most spiritual chanting I have ever heard. It really needs to be listened in a serious spiritual mood. I was wondering why he keeps his left ear covered, and then I remembered the belief that the angels whisper us on the right ear, while the demons whisper us on the left ear. I suppose he was covering his left ear, so that the demons wouldn't interrupt him, and that the angels could whisper him their chanting while he was channeling them. This is the closest to the angels' chanting in the Heavens it can get. Since today on January 27th is the Feast of Saint Sava, the first Serbian Archbishop, and that this year we celebrate eight centuries of the autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church, I dedicate this post to Saint Sava.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXypkrUe4GQ
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

supsalemgr

Milos, could you provide me a quick summation on the differences between the Catholic church and the Orthodox churches. I attended a Greek Orthodox wedding and it seemed very similar to the Catholic church. Thanks.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

milos

Quote from: supsalemgr on January 27, 2019, 08:30:56 AM
Milos, could you provide me a quick summation on the differences between the Catholic church and the Orthodox churches. I attended a Greek Orthodox wedding and it seemed very similar to the Catholic church. Thanks.

Lord help me not to make some error here, ha ha ha, but I can tell in my own words what I think. But "quick" is not enough, that is for sure.

First and foremost, the Eastern Orthodox Church is the only and original Church that Jesus Christ founded. We believe Jesus himself is our High Priest, and that Holy Spirit guides us through our religious life. No man other than Jesus himself has the supreme religious and spiritual authority in the Eastern Orthodox Church, and that is the actual living Jesus, and not just the Jesus and his words from the Holy Scriptures. We believe that only the Holy Communion in the Eastern Orthodox Church is the true body and blood of living Jesus Christ. The Holy Communion is the central part of our religious service, because, when taking the Holy Communion, we are becoming the living body of Christ, and that is the most important thing to do in our path to salvation, to become more and more the body of living Jesus, but it is a long path, and in the end it is still God's grace and mercy whether he shall save us, that is why we are chanting: "Lord have mercy!".

The main problem with the Roman Catholic Church is the Pope proclaimed his supremacy over all other Patriarchs, claiming that he has inherited the keys to Heaven which Jesus gave to Saint Peter, and that therefore the care for the whole Church and its government is given to the Pope as the Peter's successor. It is important to understand why we in the Eastern Orthodox Church believe this Papal claim is a heresy. In the Nicene Creed, the Church is declared "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic". This "catholic" part means that each congregation, headed by a bishop, is the whole and complete body of Christ, it is the belief that each part of the Church is the whole and complete Church, and all bishops and believers are fundamentally equal before God, just having different roles and responsibilities in the life of the Church. By proclaiming the Papal supremacy, the Church in Rome ceased of being catholic anymore, because their bishops and congregations became a part of the whole and complete Church rather than being the whole and complete Church, and the bishops and believers in the Church in Rome became no longer fundamentally equal before God. That is why we in the Eastern Orthodox Church believe that the Roman Catholic Church is no longer the body of Christ, and that their Holy Communion is no longer the body of Christ.

The Church services are still similar, but the beliefs are what is important, and they are different. And the main difference is this of which Church is truly catholic, we believe and we know it is the Eastern Orthodox Church. There are also some other differences, but this one is crucial, because the Papal supremacy makes the Church in Rome no catholic anymore, and therefore no body of Christ anymore, that is why it is heretic. But they are claiming we are the heretics because we don't recognize the supremacy of the Pope.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

supsalemgr

Quote from: milos on January 29, 2019, 02:26:51 AM
Lord help me not to make some error here, ha ha ha, but I can tell in my own words what I think. But "quick" is not enough, that is for sure.

First and foremost, the Eastern Orthodox Church is the only and original Church that Jesus Christ founded. We believe Jesus himself is our High Priest, and that Holy Spirit guides us through our religious life. No man other than Jesus himself has the supreme religious and spiritual authority in the Eastern Orthodox Church, and that is the actual living Jesus, and not just the Jesus and his words from the Holy Scriptures. We believe that only the Holy Communion in the Eastern Orthodox Church is the true body and blood of living Jesus Christ. The Holy Communion is the central part of our religious service, because, when taking the Holy Communion, we are becoming the living body of Christ, and that is the most important thing to do in our path to salvation, to become more and more the body of living Jesus, but it is a long path, and in the end it is still God's grace and mercy whether he shall save us, that is why we are chanting: "Lord have mercy!".

The main problem with the Roman Catholic Church is the Pope proclaimed his supremacy over all other Patriarchs, claiming that he has inherited the keys to Heaven which Jesus gave to Saint Peter, and that therefore the care for the whole Church and its government is given to the Pope as the Peter's successor. It is important to understand why we in the Eastern Orthodox Church believe this Papal claim is a heresy. In the Nicene Creed, the Church is declared "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic". This "catholic" part means that each congregation, headed by a bishop, is the whole and complete body of Christ, it is the belief that each part of the Church is the whole and complete Church, and all bishops and believers are fundamentally equal before God, just having different roles and responsibilities in the life of the Church. By proclaiming the Papal supremacy, the Church in Rome ceased of being catholic anymore, because their bishops and congregations became a part of the whole and complete Church rather than being the whole and complete Church, and the bishops and believers in the Church in Rome became no longer fundamentally equal before God. That is why we in the Eastern Orthodox Church believe that the Roman Catholic Church is no longer the body of Christ, and that their Holy Communion is no longer the body of Christ.

The Church services are still similar, but the beliefs are what is important, and they are different. And the main difference is this of which Church is truly catholic, we believe and we know it is the Eastern Orthodox Church. There are also some other differences, but this one is crucial, because the Papal supremacy makes the Church in Rome no catholic anymore, and therefore no body of Christ anymore, that is why it is heretic. But they are claiming we are the heretics because we don't recognize the supremacy of the Pope.

Thank you. That was my thoughts also concerning the Pope. Many people have a problem with an elected person being deified.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

milos

Belgrade's Temple of Saint Sava finally got its mosaic. The idea of the Temple emerged in 1895, it was to build a large cathedral in Belgrade for all the Serbian Orthodox Christians. Its construction begun in 1935, but was paused because of the WWII, and then the communist rule. It was continued in 1985. It was paused again during the 1990s. In 2001, the works were continued once again. But in spite of the huge voluntary contributions by the believers, the Temple was far from finished until recently, mostly because of the corruption. Then, the Russians gave the money to finish it, and it was like: "Finish it, or else." Since the Russian money couldn't have been stolen, now we got this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARa9KgR30sY
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.

milos

The Holy Fire 2021

The Holy Fire is described by Orthodox Christians as a miracle that occurs every year at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem on Holy and Great Saturday, the day preceding Orthodox Holy Pascha. It is considered by Christians to be the longest-attested annual miracle in the Christian world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfpptufXn3s&ab_channel=NunChristina-Oceanitissa

Some claim that the priests fake it, but they can't explain how normal candles lighten with that flame won't burn skin.
One Christ. One Body of Christ. One Eucharist. One Church.