"True Islam" would have to be the version of Islam
taught and practiced by Muhammad, its founder.
Well, what did he teach and practice?
You can see at:
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/new-board/a-short-biography-of-muhammad/
It seems to me that any Muslim who does not practice "external jihad"
is practicing only PART of "true Islam."
Here's another good post:
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/trump-calls-for-'complete-shutdown'-of-muslims-entering-the-u-s/msg277749/#msg277749
It quotes the U.S. Code prohibition of advocating,
or joining a group that advocates
the violent overthrow of the U.S. government,
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385
I've always called the peaceful ones, "MINOS." (Muslim In Name Only). They are only "muslim" by culture, not by a religious conversion. True Muslims follow MudHamMud. ISIS monsters are true Muslims. Obama is a cultural "muslim." He's not a practitioner, but it's where his heart is.
It might surprise you but a lot of Muslims who are very devout are nothing like the Jihadi's.
One country that you would never know is a Muslim country is Malaysia....VERY Tolerant.....of course they have lots of Chinese, Thai's, Indian's and even a few left over Brits. You can probably get away with more in Malaysia if you are so inclined than you can in parts of the USA. Three things:
Don't traffick in drugs
Don't get caught with a firearm especially a pistol. You can hunt with a shotgun if you rent one locally and get a permit for it....nothing larger than #5 shot though.
Either one will get you hung....literally. They jerk one European or African out of their shoes on the average once a month over the drug thing.
Last is the JIhadi/Terrorism, you don't do that in Malaysia....you get hung or shot and their security forces are first rate.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 10, 2015, 04:04:22 PM
It might surprise you but a lot of Muslims who are very devout are nothing like the Jihadi's.
One country that you would never know is a Muslim country is Malaysia....VERY Tolerant.....of course they have lots of Chinese, Thai's, Indian's and even a few left over Brits. You can probably get away with more in Malaysia if you are so inclined than you can in parts of the USA. Three things:
Don't traffick in drugs
Don't get caught with a firearm especially a pistol. You can hunt with a shotgun if you rent one locally and get a permit for it....nothing larger than #5 shot though.
Either one will get you hung....literally. They jerk one European or African out of their shoes on the average once a month over the drug thing.
Last is the JIhadi/Terrorism, you don't do that in Malaysia....you get hung or shot and their security forces are first rate.
I'm really not that surprised to hear Malaysia is MINO.
They produce a great many goods, especially Computer Components.
When is the last time you picked up any item from a store shelf marked "Made in Qatar" ?
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 10, 2015, 04:04:22 PM
It might surprise you but a lot of Muslims who are very devout are nothing like the Jihadi's.
One country that you would never know is a Muslim country is Malaysia....VERY Tolerant.....of course they have lots of Chinese, Thai's, Indian's and even a few left over Brits. You can probably get away with more in Malaysia if you are so inclined than you can in parts of the USA. Three things:
Don't traffick in drugs
Don't get caught with a firearm especially a pistol. You can hunt with a shotgun if you rent one locally and get a permit for it....nothing larger than #5 shot though.
Either one will get you hung....literally. They jerk one European or African out of their shoes on the average once a month over the drug thing.
Last is the JIhadi/Terrorism, you don't do that in Malaysia....you get hung or shot and their security forces are first rate.
How do you explain their religious tolerance and freedom from terrorism/anarchy?
This from Wikipedia:
QuoteReligion in Malaysia. Malaysia is a multicultural and multiconfessional country. As of the 2010 Population and Housing Census, 61.3 percent of the population practices Islam; 19.8 percent Buddhism; 9.2 percent Christianity; 6.3 percent Hinduism; and 1.3 percent traditional Chinese religions.
While not overwhelmingly Muslim, percentages like this usually cause extreme violence and internal strife. Secular leadership? Even Arab countries with secular leaders produced relative peace. It seems to be when the Muslims take over positions of power that they start trampling on the rights of the non-believers.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 10, 2015, 04:04:22 PM
It might surprise you but a lot of Muslims who are very devout are nothing like the Jihadi's.
One country that you would never know is a Muslim country is Malaysia....VERY Tolerant.....of course they have lots of Chinese, Thai's, Indian's and even a few left over Brits. You can probably get away with more in Malaysia if you are so inclined than you can in parts of the USA. Three things:
Don't traffick in drugs
Don't get caught with a firearm especially a pistol. You can hunt with a shotgun if you rent one locally and get a permit for it....nothing larger than #5 shot though.
Either one will get you hung....literally. They jerk one European or African out of their shoes on the average once a month over the drug thing.
Last is the JIhadi/Terrorism, you don't do that in Malaysia....you get hung or shot and their security forces are first rate.
And yet, the United States, has the death penalty on the books as the penalty for the very same sorts of crimes. What's the difference? Oh yeah, the Malaysian's not only actually carry out their death sentences. They do their's publicly.
Quote from: carlb on December 10, 2015, 04:45:43 PM
How do you explain their religious tolerance and freedom from terrorism/anarchy?
This from Wikipedia:
While not overwhelmingly Muslim, percentages like this usually cause extreme violence and internal strife. Secular leadership? Even Arab countries with secular leaders produced relative peace. It seems to be when the Muslims take over positions of power that they start trampling on the rights of the non-believers.
One Clue is the way the country is DIVIDED, that region in SARAWAK on Borneo a few hundred miles away is sometimes problematic....MOSTLY FROM COMMUNIST REBELS rather than JIHADI's. The Mainlanders consider lots of these people who are ethnically and tribally different as something like Savages, some of them used to be headhunters....It really is almost like a second country due to the distance and separation by hundreds of miles of Ocean.
You'll also run across the Sultan or Rajah of the Kingdom of oil rich Brunei, also a MUzz country....the Guy is a BENEVOLENT DICTATOR, very tolerant of Non Muslims, a great Party town, fantastic beaches, great fishing.
If you get closer to what they call the Thai Frontier, you run into the Jihadi types, most of them are the violent assholes they have in Southern Thailand...really mean SOB's. This is where you find the heaviest concentration of security forces.
The CHINESE are the Money people you don't mess with the money that means you don't mess with the Chinese. Mrs Billy Grandma was Malay Chinese who was a Christian Convert....LOTS of them in Malaysia. This is the British influence, you will still see Christian Missionaries working in the hinterlands Malaysia....they don;t seem to mind them
My own opinion is that the influences of the early Rajah or Kings had a lot to do with this tolerance, then came the British with their Parlimentary system which they still have, had a lot of influence on them, still does I suppose. They are Muslim but they are not strict, the main reason I think is that those in
Govt keep the Imam's in their place. but other than that we're pretty laid back and more into making money. That might be another clue, not as much poverty like you see in Some Muzz countries like Indonesia. THEY LOVE TO PARTY, you can go to Disco's, western Movies are popular, they even have nude beaches up north of Kuala Lumpur. You see Muzz girls wearing a bikini on the beach, walking around in tight jeans, daisy duke shorts and heels and sometimes wearing a Malong (head cover)...strange. If you go into the grocery store you can buy liquor...there is a little sign that says "FOR SALE TO NON MUSLIM's ONLY" The Noon call to prayer has a few people kneeling and facing Mecca but most ignore it.
Dubai is sort of like this as well.
I can t speak for Malaysia but I can speak to what the Koran instructs Muslims to do. If one practices Islam, and if able to read the Koran, they will learn they must kill, rape, practice pedophilia, keep slaves , beat their four wives, behead (Strike the necks) of infidels. They will learn that Jews and Christians are descended from monkeys. The violence and misogyny is breathtaking and endless.
If one does not obey the Koran, one is not a Muslim.
Quote from: Charliemyboy on December 10, 2015, 07:40:24 PM
I can t speak for Malaysia but I can speak to what the Koran instructs Muslims to do. If one practices Islam, and if able to read the Koran, they will learn they must kill, rape, practice pedophilia, keep slaves , beat their four wives, behead (Strike the necks) of infidels. They will learn that Jews and Christians are descended from monkeys. The violence and misogyny is breathtaking and endless.
If one does not obey the Koran, one is not a Muslim.
That's just bullshit.
By that logic, there would be no true Christians since they don't stone brides for not being virgins.
The same way that Christians have moved on from the barbaric parts of the bible, many muslims have moved on from the barbaric parts of the koran.
Yes, I know there are still many fanatical Muslims that do the crazy shit, but that doesn't make the sane ones not-muslim.
Here's a good rule of thumb... If someone is claiming to know what another group believes, you're probably about to hear a bunch of bullshit.
Quote from: mhughes on December 11, 2015, 06:04:04 AM
That's just bullshit.
By that logic, there would be no true Christians since they don't stone brides for not being virgins.
The same way that Christians have moved on from the barbaric parts of the bible, many muslims have moved on from the barbaric parts of the koran.
Yes, I know there are still many fanatical Muslims that do the crazy shit, but that doesn't make the sane ones not-muslim.
Here's a good rule of thumb... If someone is claiming to know what another group believes, you're probably about to hear a bunch of bullshit.
I know bullshit when I see it, too, and there is a lot of it above. You are not only uninformed, but rude, which most of us here avoid.
For your edification:
www.citizenwarriuor.com/2010/09/qurans-last-word-on-non-muslims.html.
There is a mistake in the website address above. It should be:
www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/qurans-last-word-on-non-muslims.html
By the way, the New Testament, for Christians, abrogates the Old Testament.
Quote from: Charliemyboy on December 11, 2015, 07:12:49 AM
There is a mistake in the website address above. It should be:
www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/qurans-last-word-on-non-muslims.html
By the way, the New Testament, for Christians, abrogates the Old Testament.
I'm saying the believers of a religion, and not the detractors of that religion, get to decide which parts to follow and what makes someone a member of that religion. That seems pretty obvious to me.
Of course the New Testament abrogates the Old Testament... because Christians decided it does. Muslims didn't get a voice in that.
Just like the Muslims get to decide which parts of the Koran apply or not, and not you nor Citizen Warrior get to decide that.
Furthermore, subgroups of the religion will come to different conclusions (hello Mormons).
Some muslims believe word-for-word and go around murdering people.
Some muslims believe in a spirit of peace and don't.
Both groups are still muslim.
I'm not trying to say there aren't large groups of dangerous muslims out there. I'm just saying that they're not all like that and they are still muslim.
No, the founder of the Religion is the "decider."
JESUS, not his followers, define Christianity. MudHamMud defines oslam.
TX Imam Forced To Resign After Supporting Trump Muslim Ban
Dr. Al Sayyed told KFDM News he was forced to resign as religious director of the Islamic Society of the Triplex after making comments Monday in which he agrees with Donald Trump's statements that the U.S. should temporarily stop accepting any new Muslim immigrants into the country.
http://www.fox4beaumont.com/community/features/community-news/stories/local-imam-says-he-forced-resign-because-he-agrees-trump-muslim-immigration-1932.shtml
Quote from: mhughes on December 11, 2015, 06:04:04 AM
That's just bullshit.
By that logic, there would be no true Christians since they don't stone brides for not being virgins.
The same way that Christians have moved on from the barbaric parts of the bible, many muslims have moved on from the barbaric parts of the koran.
Yes, I know there are still many fanatical Muslims that do the crazy shit, but that doesn't make the sane ones not-muslim.
Here's a good rule of thumb... If someone is claiming to know what another group believes, you're probably about to hear a bunch of bullshit.
Okay. For about the millionth time. Christians are followers of Jesus Christ. Thus they follow the NEW TESTAMENT. They respect the Old Testament, but where the New and Old Testament differ, a Christian gives precedence to the New Testament. This makes Christianity the opposite of the Koran. Among Christians the warlike old Testament is abrogated by the peaceful New Testament. In the Koran, the peaceful first verses are abrogated by the later bloodthirsty verses. Even the bloodthirsty Old Testament differs from the Koran. THE LORD is very specific in his commands, about who the Jews are supposed to go to war with. There is nothing like the Islamic command to make war on anyone who isn't a Muslim.
Quote from: carlb on December 11, 2015, 08:58:21 AM
No, the founder of the Religion is the "decider."
JESUS, not his followers, define Christianity. MudHamMud defines oslam.
I guess we're now to a philosophical debate about what a religion is. I will continue to maintain that a religion is a living breathing thing that can change over time depending on the beliefs of it's members.
You maintain it's only defined by it's founder.
I see no way of resolving that question.
Quote from: mhughes on December 11, 2015, 09:33:24 AM
I guess we're now to a philosophical debate about what a religion is. I will continue to maintain that a religion is a living breathing thing that can change over time depending on the beliefs of it's members.
You maintain it's only defined by it's founder.
I see no way of resolving that question.
Do you believe the Constitution is a living breathing document?
The Word of God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. It does not change. You either accept it or reject it. Your choice.
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If we diminish the value of any part of the word, it totally breaks down.
Can we not accept God at His word? Must we manipulate it to make it more palatable to us? May it never be.
It is what it is. It says what God intended it to say. If there are figures of speech, analogies, parables, etc., the scripture tells us they are. It does not leave room for us to pick and choose what we want to believe.
Scripture says homosexuality is an abomination to God. Regardless of what man says, the truth stands as written. We accept it or reject it.
There are no errors, contradictions or disagreements with scientific fact.
Quote from: mhughes on December 11, 2015, 09:33:24 AM
I guess we're now to a philosophical debate about what a religion is. I will continue to maintain that a religion is a living breathing thing that can change over time depending on the beliefs of it's members.
You maintain it's only defined by it's founder.
I see no way of resolving that question.
A "Living, Breathing Thing" ?
Christianity, Judaism, have become more thoughtful and peaceful.
ISLAM is as primitive as ever.
A young lady called Sean Hannity yesterday, saying that she's Muslim,
but she celebrates Christmas and Easter along with all her American friends.
Sounds to me like she's not fully indoctrinated in Islam.
Maybe she doesn't even know about the violent roots of Islam.
Sounds to me she's like many Christians,
who have only a superficial knowledge of their own religion.
If she knew more about Islam, maybe she would go all the way
and completely convert to Christianity.
I would welcome her.
Quote from: je_freedom on December 12, 2015, 08:34:10 AM
A young lady called Sean Hannity yesterday, saying that she's Muslim,
but she celebrates Christmas and Easter along with all her American friends.
Sounds to me like she's not fully indoctrinated in Islam.
Maybe she doesn't even know about the violent roots of Islam.
Sounds to me she's like many Christians,
who have only a superficial knowledge of their own religion.
If she knew more about Islam, maybe she would go all the way
and completely convert to Christianity.
I would welcome her.
You are probably very correct!
Quote from: kroz on December 12, 2015, 10:37:58 AM
You are probably very correct!
She sounds like an AMERICAN.
Take off the Hajib, and join us.
SHE IS WELCOME.
NO.