Do not buy into the media hype about Christianity in America. Christians are actually growing stronger... emboldened by persecution. Sometimes it takes persecution before we begin to appreciate our role as light in a dark world.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/11/06/americans-less-religious-dont-be-fooled-believers-are-holding-steady.html?cmpid=NL_opinion
Quote from: kroz on November 09, 2015, 07:53:56 AM
Do not buy into the media hype about Christianity in America. Christians are actually growing stronger... emboldened by persecution. Sometimes it takes persecution before we begin to appreciate our role as light in a dark world.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/11/06/americans-less-religious-dont-be-fooled-believers-are-holding-steady.html?cmpid=NL_opinion
Well now Christianity may be declining inside the D C beltway and all the news rooms. Almost every Mexican I see is wearing a cross of some kind and that's who most of the illegal are. How can there be a decline? :lol:
Quote from: walkstall on November 09, 2015, 04:48:41 PM
Well now Christianity may be declining inside the D C beltway and all the news rooms. Almost every Mexican I see is wearing a cross of some kind and that's who most of the illegal are. How can there be a decline? :lol:
We hate to be persecuted but sometimes it can produce positive things. It certainly helps weed the chaff from the wheat. If we lose our charitable contribution exemption it will remove much chaff from among us. However, no one really likes to lose the exemption since good churches do so much social work in the local communities.
Interesting topic to some, Kroz. Thanks for posting it. I had noticed an uptick in the number of and variety of posted articles on line making the case that religion was becoming a thing of the past for Americans. One even predicted a non-Catholic Ireland, in citing low participation in Catholic services in general.
i have two takes on it. One, the main stream media, which has been in the front of
"movements" to stamp out religion, has always been quick to claim victory in any snd all leftist agendas it has taken part in prosecuting. For example, it would not surprise me at all to read that guy marriage was the end of that ol' bugaboo, Judeo Christian morality. The sentiment is certainly there, in force.
Second, there can be no question that traditional denominations are in decline. I've made the point before that this is no accident. Those events do not necessarily translate into broad generalizations, but they do illustrate that adults still see as far as their own little worlds and denominations, no further.
( The left didn't really have to knock down the soft ol' boys at the top. It simply infiltrated the positions and eroded the sand beneath their feet. The method of operation of the Democrats has long been to covet built up Protestant wealth and recruit the legions to vote that wealth into its own pockets. )
I'm not sure how the numbers are arrived at, but I don't believe them. There are thousands of young worshipping Hillsong style, listening to light praise radio.
Are they even numbered? I doubt it.
Quote from: red_dirt on November 09, 2015, 04:58:04 PM
Interesting topic to some, Kroz. Thanks for posting it. I had noticed an uptick in the number of and variety of posted articles on line making the case that religion was becoming a thing of the past for Americans. One even predicted a non-Catholic Ireland, in citing low participation in Catholic services in general.
i have two takes on it. One, the main stream media, which has been in the front of
"movements" to stamp out religion, has always been quick to claim victory in any snd all leftist agendas it has taken part in prosecuting. For example, it would not surprise me at all to read that guy marriage was the end of that ol' bugaboo, Judeo Christian morality. The sentiment is certainly there, in force.
Second, there can be no question that traditional denominations are in decline. I've made the point before that this is no accident. Those events do not necessarily translate into broad generalizations, but they do illustrate that adults still see as far as their own little worlds and denominations, no further.
( The left didn't really have to knock down the soft ol' boys at the top. It simply infiltrated the positions and eroded the sand beneath their feet. The method of operation of the Democrats has long been to covet built up Protestant wealth and recruit the legions to vote that wealth into its own pockets. )
I'm not sure how the numbers are arrived at, but I don't believe them. There are thousands of young worshipping Hillsong style, listening to light praise radio.
Are they even numbered? I doubt it.
Thanks for the post. I think you are right. We have undergone significant changes over the years but we are still people of strong faith and commitment.
The latest statement I read said Americans claiming religious affiliation fell over the years of 2007 to 2015 from 51% to around 30%. If there is any truth to that, it can only be attributed to the Obama administration. Young people entering the workforce or trying to get along in business who may at one time answered in the affirmative might be tempted to answer in the negative just to avoid either controversy or repercussions if they felt national leadership, which controls most of the economy, was working hard against Christians. Obama would fit that category, so would Kerry, both Clintons, and much of the bureaucracy, which does the hiring.
As the Angel of Death passes low, all we can do is put the blood on the door, close and lock it, and trust that this, too, will pass.
Quote from: red_dirt on November 11, 2015, 12:28:32 PM
The latest statement I read said Americans claiming religious affiliation fell over the years of 2007 to 2015 from 51% to around 30%. If there is any truth to that, it can only be attributed to the Obama administration. Young people entering the workforce or trying to get along in business who may at one time answered in the affirmative might be tempted to answer in the negative just to avoid either controversy or repercussions if they felt national leadership, which controls most of the economy, was working hard against Christians. Obama would fit that category, so would Kerry, both Clintons, and much of the bureaucracy, which does the hiring.
As the Angel of Death passes low, all we can do is put the blood on the door, close and lock it, and trust that this, too, will pass.
Good analogy, red_dirt.
In the end it is only the blood of Christ that can save us. May His grace be upon us during these troubling times.
Scripture says there will be a great falling away during the last days. And I know that in some areas that seems to be happening. However, in other areas there is a new awakening among young people. I read about it from time to time.
But then, there are many "so called" Christians like the folks you mention and when they leave the "flock" there is no real loss. So when the polls show the religious drop from 51% to 30% it is likely just the chaff being sifted from the wheat.
Quote from: kroz on November 11, 2015, 12:48:19 PM
Good analogy, red_dirt.
In the end it is only the blood of Christ that can save us. May His grace be upon us during these troubling times.
Scripture says there will be a great falling away during the last days. And I know that in some areas that seems to be happening. However, in other areas there is a new awakening among young people. I read about it from time to time.
But then, there are many "so called" Christians like the folks you mention and when they leave the "flock" there is no real loss. So when the polls show the religious drop from 51% to 30% it is likely just the chaff being sifted from the wheat.
The question I have is this more about church attendance or belief. I doubt the 21% drop in belief. I am one of those who grew up in the church, but do not attend now. However, I keep a bible beside my bed and pray on a daily basis as a Christian. I enjoy some of the Christian TV programming, especially the Billy Graham classics. Also, the Catholic church has done a wonderful job of evangelism in South America and Africa so many are coming into the fold. However, the media chooses to dwell upon the negative.
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 11, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
The question I have is this more about church attendance or belief. I doubt the 21% drop in belief. I am one of those who grew up in the church, but do not attend now. However, I keep a bible beside my bed and pray on a daily basis as a Christian. I enjoy some of the Christian TV programming, especially the Billy Graham classics. Also, the Catholic church has done a wonderful job of evangelism in South America and Africa so many are coming into the fold. However, the media chooses to dwell upon the negative.
I believe it. Apart from Evangelical fanatics, visit any church on a given Sunday & the overwhelming majority are elderly. It's just the sign of the times. Same goes for Masons, Kiwanis, Elks, etc. People today are too busy, or too self absorbed, to participate. As well, look at the people on the Internet every single night.............on forums. :blush:
Quote from: kroz on November 11, 2015, 12:48:19 PM
Good analogy, red_dirt.
In the end it is only the blood of Christ that can save us. May His grace be upon us during these troubling times.
It is an analogy, isn't it, Obama, the Angel of Death, who took the first born son. In a similar way, the communists want the children, the youth.
Quote from: BPman on November 11, 2015, 01:35:49 PM
I believe it. Apart from Evangelical fanatics, visit any church on a given Sunday.....
Interesting near subliminal use of the derogatory "fanatics" paired with "Evangelicals" in order to produce a negative impression of those who have left, fed up with the hypocrisy. It is actually a version of techniques of peer pressure and political correctness, which we caution the youth about all the time. In Stalinist Russia, a graphic would be included.
Quote from: BPman on November 11, 2015, 01:35:49 PM
I believe it. Apart from Evangelical fanatics, visit any church on a given Sunday & the overwhelming majority are elderly. It's just the sign of the times. Same goes for Masons, Kiwanis, Elks, etc. People today are too busy, or too self absorbed, to participate. As well, look at the people on the Internet every single night.............on forums. :blush:
I agree. In the past people reached out to other organizations for knowledge and support, including the church. I am afraid the propaganda espoused in government schools are having a negative and folks are finding other "support" areas. Young people feel there is an answer to any question on the internet. Unfortunately, they are not wise enough to recognize the "false prophets".
Quote from: BPman on November 11, 2015, 01:35:49 PM
I believe it. Apart from Evangelical fanatics, visit any church on a given Sunday & the overwhelming majority are elderly. It's just the sign of the times. Same goes for Masons, Kiwanis, Elks, etc. People today are too busy, or too self absorbed, to participate. As well, look at the people on the Internet every single night.............on forums. :blush:
That's how it's always been, though it cycles (Pendulum), I see a return to the church at present.
Quote from: red_dirt on November 11, 2015, 01:59:25 PM
Interesting near subliminal use of the derogatory "fanatics" paired with "Evangelicals" in order to produce a negative impression of those who have left, fed up with the hypocrisy. It is actually a version of techniques of peer pressure and political correctness, which we caution the youth about all the time. In Stalinist Russia, a graphic would be included.
I caught that derogatory correlation also, red_dirt.
Anyone who actually believes the Bible is the inspired word of God in it's entirety is a "fanatic". Any "reasonable" person knows it is just a collection of parables and allegories. Right? :rolleyes:
Those living on the fringes of Christianity want to believe that the Bible is a "good" book with some nice suggestions on living a good life. They apply it where they like and ignore the things they don't. Very convenient and easy to claim an association.
Only God knows who they are. And they are likely to fall by the wayside when the going gets rough.
Quote from: Solar on November 11, 2015, 02:05:18 PM
That's how it's always been, though it cycles (Pendulum), I see a return to the church at present.
I totally agree, solar!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Solar on November 11, 2015, 02:05:18 PM
That's how it's always been, though it cycles (Pendulum), I see a return to the church at present.
They can not believe in the government now. So they have to go back believing in something that work for them before. That has always been the church.
Quote from: red_dirt on November 11, 2015, 01:59:25 PM
Interesting near subliminal use of the derogatory "fanatics" paired with "Evangelicals" in order to produce a negative impression of those who have left, fed up with the hypocrisy. It is actually a version of techniques of peer pressure and political correctness, which we caution the youth about all the time. In Stalinist Russia, a graphic would be included.
No, I find the Evangelicals just as stifling as the Liberals in their "my way or the highway" diatribes. Discoveries are made regularly regarding the Bible via scholars & archaeologists.
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 11, 2015, 02:04:11 PM
I agree. In the past people reached out to other organizations for knowledge and support, including the church. I am afraid the propaganda espoused in government schools are having a negative and folks are finding other "support" areas. Young people feel there is an answer to any question on the internet. Unfortunately, they are not wise enough to recognize the "false prophets".
I guess you could give you my view as a member of the younger generations. How do I do this while showing respect? It's difficult for me to come up with the tone and the words without causing offense so if I inadvertently do I humbly apologize in advance.
With adieu, here are my thoughts.
[opinion = mine]
Some of you say that we are unwise, entitled and narcissistic. If we are this way and turned out this way than who was responsible for creating the environment that we were all raised in that led us to this path? We in the younger generations weren't raised in a vacuum or stowed away on an uncharted Island. We were all nurtured by our various family members and the public educational system. There is this idea that the older generation seems to have in our various institutions that socialization comes from our peers. When you put your child who is inherently unwise with other children who are inherently unwise as well what do you get? You get socialization all right but not the socialization that is desired which is Godly. What you have is the blind leading the blind in which the older generations set up.
Do you want respectable kids, wise kids and kids who are unselfish? Do you want kids who excellent critical thinkers? It's simple. You have to socialize these kids with those who are respectable, wise and who are wise. You have to socialize them with those who are critical thinkers as well? Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. The problem is the older generation put the younger generation on a bad tree with bad ground? How can fruit be nurtured to be good if the rest of the fruit is rotten?
Proverbs 22:6: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
If we are narcissistic as claimed than did the older generation train the younger generation in the way we all should go? How can one learn to be wise and unselfish by our peers who know nothing themselves? How can we be socialized by our peers who are unwise and unlearned? If we're all given hackneyed phrases and positive affirmations that tell us absolutely nothing as to what the correct way to go is and why it is that way above others. If we're told to use common sense all the time which is treated as biologically inherent how can we use common sense if common sense comes from wisdom and we're not wise? If we're being told vague things like start out at the bottom without giving definitions and explaining things in very thorough detail and leaving us to just learn on our own without guidance.
If we have unreasonable expectations of life than what are the correct and reasonable expectations that we all should have? Don't just discipline a person with just punishment only. Truthfully teach them. Show them. Walk them through things. Be the socialization influence and not their peers. For example, a lot of us younger people are poor at managing money. Show us all how to manage it properly. Explain insurance to us especially medical. Explain things like co-pay and deductible.
Do some of the things you did with me Solar and provide excellent advice which I can work with because it is concrete and specific and it makes sense. If the older generations want the younger generations to be better than you have to be your Brother's Keeper and truthfully train them up in the way to go in every aspect of life and don't depend upon them learning through osmosis and from their peers who more than likely have the mindset of Beavis and Butthead.
[/opinion]
Again, if I came across as disrespectful to you please accept my humble apology. It is not my intent to do so and my social skills and my social graces need a bit more refinement. I probably could use some time in charm school
Quote from: cubedemon on November 12, 2015, 06:19:58 AM
I guess you could give you my view as a member of the younger generations. How do I do this while showing respect? It's difficult for me to come up with the tone and the words without causing offense so if I inadvertently do I humbly apologize in advance.
With adieu, here are my thoughts.
[opinion = mine]
Some of you say that we are unwise, entitled and narcissistic. If we are this way and turned out this way than who was responsible for creating the environment that we were all raised in that led us to this path? We in the younger generations weren't raised in a vacuum or stowed away on an uncharted Island. We were all nurtured by our various family members and the public educational system. There is this idea that the older generation seems to have in our various institutions that socialization comes from our peers. When you put your child who is inherently unwise with other children who are inherently unwise as well what do you get? You get socialization all right but not the socialization that is desired which is Godly. What you have is the blind leading the blind in which the older generations set up.
Do you want respectable kids, wise kids and kids who are unselfish? Do you want kids who excellent critical thinkers? It's simple. You have to socialize these kids with those who are respectable, wise and who are wise. You have to socialize them with those who are critical thinkers as well? Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. The problem is the older generation put the younger generation on a bad tree with bad ground? How can fruit be nurtured to be good if the rest of the fruit is rotten?
Proverbs 22:6: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
If we are narcissistic as claimed than did the older generation train the younger generation in the way we all should go? How can one learn to be wise and unselfish by our peers who know nothing themselves? How can we be socialized by our peers who are unwise and unlearned? If we're all given hackneyed phrases and positive affirmations that tell us absolutely nothing as to what the correct way to go is and why it is that way above others. If we're told to use common sense all the time which is treated as biologically inherent how can we use common sense if common sense comes from wisdom and we're not wise? If we're being told vague things like start out at the bottom without giving definitions and explaining things in very thorough detail and leaving us to just learn on our own without guidance.
If we have unreasonable expectations of life than what are the correct and reasonable expectations that we all should have? Don't just discipline a person with just punishment only. Truthfully teach them. Show them. Walk them through things. Be the socialization influence and not their peers. For example, a lot of us younger people are poor at managing money. Show us all how to manage it properly. Explain insurance to us especially medical. Explain things like co-pay and deductible.
Do some of the things you did with me Solar and provide excellent advice which I can work with because it is concrete and specific and it makes sense. If the older generations want the younger generations to be better than you have to be your Brother's Keeper and truthfully train them up in the way to go in every aspect of life and don't depend upon them learning through osmosis and from their peers who more than likely have the mindset of Beavis and Butthead.
[/opinion]
Again, if I came across as disrespectful to you please accept my humble apology. It is not my intent to do so and my social skills and my social graces need a bit more refinement. I probably could use some time in charm school
I did not sense any disrespect and you raise some very good points and questions.
You mentioned schools and that is right on as schools have become so PC that core values are absolutely missing in most government schools. The other area is the lack of good parenting to put children on the right path and keeping them there. Too many parents have the misconception they must be "friends" with their children. That is pure bunk. I raised my kids the way I was raised. My son, who is now, forty-six did not like me much in his teen years. However, a few years ago he came to me and thanked for the way I loved and treated him as a teen. He is trying to raise his daughters in the same manner. Also, there are too many fatherless families and that puts a child at a disadvantage right off the bat.
I am sorry I do not have an easy solution for your questions. It is possible for today's youth to overcome these detriments, but it is not easy.
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 12, 2015, 08:55:14 AM
You mentioned schools and that is right on as schools have become so PC that core values are absolutely missing in most government schools. The other area is the lack of good parenting to put children on the right path and keeping them there. Too many parents have the misconception they must be "friends" with their children. That is pure bunk. I raised my kids the way I was raised. My son, who is now, forty-six did not like me much in his teen years. However, a few years ago he came to me and thanked for the way I loved and treated him as a teen. He is trying to raise his daughters in the same manner. Also, there are too many fatherless families and that puts a child at a disadvantage right off the bat.
PC, Oh how I can't stand political correctness. IMHO, it stifles free flow of ideas and thoughts. It is a major problem with my com-padres in the Autism community. In short, they want to ban words like retarded and they want people to say Autistic person instead of person with autism. I can rant on about it. This whole PC does not help those like myself in the slightest and PC is an infection within the autism community that must be uprooted. PC will not help us to get what we need and that is to be able to be functional in society including but not limited to employment and managing a home. To worry about banning words and other PC nonsense is just plain retarded.
Anyway, I don't have a child so I have no idea how to raise a child. At this time, I don't believe myself to be fit yet. I can't raise a child to be healthy and wise if I have emotional issues and I'm unwise myself. I have to work on myself first and get myself to a place in which I can raise a child to be the best person they can be whether autistic or not. I will say my friend, if your child is functional and doing well then it seems like your methods of raising him worked. The proof seems to be in the outcome. You did excellent in my book and I commend you.
Quote from: supsalemgr on November 12, 2015, 08:55:14 AM
I am sorry I do not have an easy solution for your questions. It is possible for today's youth to overcome these detriments, but it is not easy.
It's fine! I understand and there are no real easy answers. I think I do have an advantage over other youth in this regard. The advantage I do have is that I am an analyst and I examine and question things. I like and I need things to make logical sense. This is one part of my personality. Another part is that I try to be open to possibilities and new ideas that may challenge my own.
With respect to my writings and my questioning and debates with others on this forum I do try to keep an open mind about things. I like to get to the truth(s) or at least a truth(s) about things as much as possible and I always wonder am I really correct on this? When I'm debating you guys and/or questioning I'm debating with various aspects of myself on things as well.
Quote from: cubedemon on November 12, 2015, 06:19:58 AM
I guess you could give you my view as a member of the younger generations. How do I do this while showing respect? It's difficult for me to come up with the tone and the words without causing offense so if I inadvertently do I humbly apologize in advance.
With adieu, here are my thoughts.
[opinion = mine]
Some of you say that we are unwise, entitled and narcissistic. If we are this way and turned out this way than who was responsible for creating the environment that we were all raised in that led us to this path? We in the younger generations weren't raised in a vacuum or stowed away on an uncharted Island. We were all nurtured by our various family members and the public educational system. There is this idea that the older generation seems to have in our various institutions that socialization comes from our peers. When you put your child who is inherently unwise with other children who are inherently unwise as well what do you get? You get socialization all right but not the socialization that is desired which is Godly. What you have is the blind leading the blind in which the older generations set up.
Do you want respectable kids, wise kids and kids who are unselfish? Do you want kids who excellent critical thinkers? It's simple. You have to socialize these kids with those who are respectable, wise and who are wise. You have to socialize them with those who are critical thinkers as well? Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. The problem is the older generation put the younger generation on a bad tree with bad ground? How can fruit be nurtured to be good if the rest of the fruit is rotten?
Proverbs 22:6: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
If we are narcissistic as claimed than did the older generation train the younger generation in the way we all should go? How can one learn to be wise and unselfish by our peers who know nothing themselves? How can we be socialized by our peers who are unwise and unlearned? If we're all given hackneyed phrases and positive affirmations that tell us absolutely nothing as to what the correct way to go is and why it is that way above others. If we're told to use common sense all the time which is treated as biologically inherent how can we use common sense if common sense comes from wisdom and we're not wise? If we're being told vague things like start out at the bottom without giving definitions and explaining things in very thorough detail and leaving us to just learn on our own without guidance.
If we have unreasonable expectations of life than what are the correct and reasonable expectations that we all should have? Don't just discipline a person with just punishment only. Truthfully teach them. Show them. Walk them through things. Be the socialization influence and not their peers. For example, a lot of us younger people are poor at managing money. Show us all how to manage it properly. Explain insurance to us especially medical. Explain things like co-pay and deductible.
Do some of the things you did with me Solar and provide excellent advice which I can work with because it is concrete and specific and it makes sense. If the older generations want the younger generations to be better than you have to be your Brother's Keeper and truthfully train them up in the way to go in every aspect of life and don't depend upon them learning through osmosis and from their peers who more than likely have the mindset of Beavis and Butthead.
[/opinion]
Again, if I came across as disrespectful to you please accept my humble apology. It is not my intent to do so and my social skills and my social graces need a bit more refinement. I probably could use some time in charm school
Well said and well written, Cube. Now, at a certain point, pleasing others, be it adults, peers, politically correct society, or society in general, becomes no longer an option. Especially with respect to that last one, pleasing or fitting in to society, it is simply impossible because society itself is impossible. That is why the bars and lounges are full to overflowing, the horde trying to fit in to the lost society, trying to act black, all those things we see and can be so easily drawn into. It is in TV, especially the ads, and in the music. With all those channels and all that content, you can't just turn it on and watch a game. You have to get brainwashed. Bottom line, the sooner a man or woman bails out, the better.
Religious activity in America particularly, but in human civilization as a whole. No matter what the religion is btw, has always ebbed and flowed.
All throughout not only our own history, but the history of other nations, even in the Bible itself the fox hole effect can be seen.
When times are "good" folks tend to "drift" away from God and religion in general.
But as soon as times are not so "good". Bam, everyone's suddenly back in the church praying and religious.
UKIP off to a good start, today. Then the Pakis came out and swung it to Labour. That could be our future.