Bible says immigrants must obey OUR law!

[carlb]

kit, I have great respect for your opinion on most issues.  However, when you start diminishing any verse in the bible as "just someone's opinion" then you lose me.  The bible is either the divine word of God in it's entirety (as the scripture claims it is) or you make it virtually worthless by picking and choosing which parts are "inspired by God" and which parts are not. It is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Having said that, the passage you refer to is merely contrasting the physical to the spiritual aspects of man.  Which has more influence over you?... the things of this world or the things of God?  Know that the things of this world will pass away eventually.  The things of God are eternal.  A false teacher will focus largely upon the things of this world.... money, name it and claim it, God wants you to be rich, ......   Or, you have the teachers like Jeremiah Wright who are full of hatred and anger.  We can know that these teachers are not from God.

Exactly! We can have variations in understanding, but ala carte Christians "offend" me!

Now that I have been "offended", nobody can voice any other opinion. It's PC LAW!   

[Traninit]

This country is not run by the directives of the bible, thank goodness.  Some of the stories in the Old Testament are just as horrifying as those in the Quran.  I don't think it is lawful to tie your child to some rock (Some say it was the Ka'aba) and prepare to kill him until the directive arrived from on high countermanding that first order.  The first documented incident of child abuse. Are we to use an innocent child to expiate our own sins? That did and Islam does.   Do we want slavery to return--the instance of Naomi being used as a breeder, rather like livestock.  And then there's Lot who offered his daughters as sacrifices to be gang raped to save those men being raped in Sodom. although Lot later had sex with them himself after they got him drunk.  Do we want incest legalized?  Do we want laws that permit this? Let's not bring any religion into this fight against Islam, as Islam is not a religion at all, but a system of government.  Many of the directives in the New Testament are compassionate and humanistic.  If I had to live by a religion under penalty of prison it would be Christianity as preached in the New Testament,  but I have no need for it.  I do not fear a hell in the hereafter because I don't believe there is one and therefore no pie in the sky when I die to frighten me into living with kindness and charity.

Interesting take, much of which I agree with. Faith is something personal, and I will not argue it. But I do believe that Christianity had as much to do with men creating a text in which to govern a lawless land as it does theism. Without a formidable, effective, widespread and uniform means to control lawlessness, men chose to instill fear within a text as the primary motivational factor...to behave. That text essentially motivated the public to police themselves. That text has changed in content to be more in keeping with  acceptable changes in the standards of our society. Even "progressive" segments of the Muslim community (hard to use "progressive" and "Muslim" in the same sentence) have called for change in the Koran to reflect less draconian "law". In the Koran the wages of homosexuality is death. It was the same thing in the Bible at one time as well. Is Christ less or more tolerant of homosexuality today, or does he stand by his original words of death and condemnation as in the old testament? Just a thought.

[kroz]

Interesting take, much of which I agree with. Faith is something personal, and I will not argue it. But I do believe that Christianity had as much to do with men creating a text in which to govern a lawless land as it does theism. Without a formidable, effective, widespread and uniform means to control lawlessness, men chose to instill fear within a text as the primary motivational factor...to behave. That text essentially motivated the public to police themselves. That text has changed in content to be more in keeping with  acceptable changes in the standards of our society. Even "progressive" segments of the Muslim community (hard to use "progressive" and "Muslim" in the same sentence) have called for change in the Koran to reflect less draconian "law". In the Koran the wages of homosexuality is death. It was the same thing in the Bible at one time as well. Is Christ less or more tolerant of homosexuality today, or does he stand by his original words of death and condemnation as in the old testament? Just a thought.

If your understanding of Christianity is that it is motivated by "fear" then you have been listening to the wrong teachers.  Christians are motivated by love!  God has not given us a spirit of fear but of peace and love.

The law of Moses was not created by man.  It was given to Moses by God on the mountain.  The purpose of it was as a "tutor" to not only show men their sins but to teach them God's requirement of a sacrifice to atone for their sins.

It was impossible for them to understand the grace and mercy of God if they did not understand the consequences of evil.  God pointed out their sins as a way of contrasting white against black.  How could they appreciate the light if they did not see the darkness first?  The mosaic law pointed out the darkness of their hearts.  The animal sacrifices show them a symbolic way of atonement (or forgiveness).  It cleansed their hearts.  The sacrificial "scapegoat" symbolically bore the burden of their iniquities as did the sacrificial lamb.  This was God's way of illustrating to them the coming lamb of God who would give himself up as a once for all time sacrifice for the sins of men.

It was only through this contrast that the people could understand the love of God for them.  The old testament saints were sanctified the same way we are.  They looked forward to the coming lamb of God; we look back to the lamb of God on the cross.

Our U.S. laws were originally based largely upon the moral aspects of the mosaic law.  The Founders recognized the mosaic law as a good moral standard for fruitful living.  It was more about keeping society safe than it was in punishing crime... although punishment was a necessary aspect of it.  It wasn't perfect but it was basically fair.  It abated chaos and anarchy for many decades.  People identified with it because most people were bible believing christians.  Early institutions of higher learning were originally bible schools and seminaries.  No one really thought the laws were unjust.

As we all know, homosexuality was a crime in this country for a very long time.

And in answer to your question, yes, the New Testament still calls homosexuality a sin and abomination to God.

However, we are told to hate the sin but love the sinner.  We ALL sin to varying degrees so we should not condemn others for their sins.  That is the job of God.

That does not mean we do not point out the teachings of the scriptures on sin.  But in doing so we admit that we too are guilty of sin in our own lives.  We ALL are in need of the saving grace of God.

I will say that in taking the practice of homosexuality to the level of marriage, it is a type of blaspheme against God's rite of marriage.  It is one thing to sin.  It is quite a different thing to throw it in the face of God!

Does God still demand death for homosexuality?

The O.T. law of Moses has been rendered obsolete (Heb 8:13) with the New Covenant of Christ.

But know that ALL sin will require the death penalty in the final Great White Throne judgement.  Only those who have been saved by the grace of God and covered with the atoning blood of Christ will live forever with God.

But we do not come to faith in Jesus Christ because of any kind of fear of hell.  That is NOT the way it works.  We come to Jesus Christ because of His irresistible grace that draws us to Him.  It is God who initiates salvation and we simply respond to Him.

If you do not believe any of this, it is certainly your prerogative.   But you now know the truth and are without excuse on judgement day.  Maybe one day God will touch your heart and you will bend to His will.

God bless!

[Traninit]

If your understanding of Christianity is that it is motivated by "fear" then you have been listening to the wrong teachers.  Christians are motivated by love!  God has not given us a spirit of fear but of peace and love.

The law of Moses was not created by man.  It was given to Moses by God on the mountain.  The purpose of it was as a "tutor" to not only show men their sins but to teach them God's requirement of a sacrifice to atone for their sins.

It was impossible for them to understand the grace and mercy of God if they did not understand the consequences of evil.  God pointed out their sins as a way of contrasting white against black.  How could they appreciate the light if they did not see the darkness first?  The mosaic law pointed out the darkness of their hearts.  The animal sacrifices show them a symbolic way of atonement (or forgiveness).  It cleansed their hearts.  The sacrificial "scapegoat" symbolically bore the burden of their iniquities as did the sacrificial lamb.  This was God's way of illustrating to them the coming lamb of God who would give himself up as a once for all time sacrifice for the sins of men.

It was only through this contrast that the people could understand the love of God for them.  The old testament saints were sanctified the same way we are.  They looked forward to the coming lamb of God; we look back to the lamb of God on the cross.

Our U.S. laws were originally based largely upon the moral aspects of the mosaic law.  The Founders recognized the mosaic law as a good moral standard for fruitful living.  It was more about keeping society safe than it was in punishing crime... although punishment was a necessary aspect of it.  It wasn't perfect but it was basically fair.  It abated chaos and anarchy for many decades.  People identified with it because most people were bible believing christians.  Early institutions of higher learning were originally bible schools and seminaries.  No one really thought the laws were unjust.

As we all know, homosexuality was a crime in this country for a very long time.

And in answer to your question, yes, the New Testament still calls homosexuality a sin and abomination to God.

However, we are told to hate the sin but love the sinner.  We ALL sin to varying degrees so we should not condemn others for their sins.  That is the job of God.

That does not mean we do not point out the teachings of the scriptures on sin.  But in doing so we admit that we too are guilty of sin in our own lives.  We ALL are in need of the saving grace of God.

I will say that in taking the practice of homosexuality to the level of marriage, it is a type of blaspheme against God's rite of marriage.  It is one thing to sin.  It is quite a different thing to throw it in the face of God!

Does God still demand death for homosexuality?

The O.T. law of Moses has been rendered obsolete (Heb 8:13) with the New Covenant of Christ.

But know that ALL sin will require the death penalty in the final Great White Throne judgement.  Only those who have been saved by the grace of God and covered with the atoning blood of Christ will live forever with God.

But we do not come to faith in Jesus Christ because of any kind of fear of hell.  That is NOT the way it works.  We come to Jesus Christ because of His irresistible grace that draws us to Him.  It is God who initiates salvation and we simply respond to Him.

If you do not believe any of this, it is certainly your prerogative.   But you now know the truth and are without excuse on judgement day.  Maybe one day God will touch your heart and you will bend to His will.

God bless!

Kroz,

I don't disbelieve. I don't know, either. And one cannot have faith if that faith is stated in words but not felt within, correct? That person I would call an optimistic hypocrite, regardless of the benevolent premise. I don't want to claim that title and lie to myself. Would God approve of that? What I do believe in, without a doubt, is that if we are to live happily, harmoniously, and with purpose, the Ten Commandments is a wonderful life guide. You sound like a very good and kind person. I envy you. You've found your way. All my best to you!

[kroz]

Kroz,

I don't disbelieve. I don't know, either. And one cannot have faith if that faith is stated in words but not felt within, correct? That person I would call an optimistic hypocrite, regardless of the benevolent premise. I don't want to claim that title and lie to myself. Would God approve of that? What I do believe in, without a doubt, is that if we are to live happily, harmoniously, and with purpose, the Ten Commandments is a wonderful life guide. You sound like a very good and kind person. I envy you. You've found your way. All my best to you!

My heart goes out to you, traninit.   I do believe that you have a good attitude.

You are right about faith being internal and felt by the believer.  The Spirit of God is a central part of a believer's life.  He quickens our heart in many ways and makes Himself known to us.

That is why when I hear a politician say that his faith is personal and not relevant to his political life, I know that he really cannot be a true believer.  Like you said in your post, this person is lying to himself.  Because a true Christian is impacted by the Spirit of God in every aspect of his/her life.  God will not be relegated to a compartment in your life.  It is all or nothing.

I cannot know who is truly a Christian or not.  However, I will say that my spirit senses the Sprit of God in only three of the candidates.  That is Cruz and Santorum and Huckabee.  There could be more but I haven't sensed more.  That is certainly not to say that they are the only Christians.  Like I said, I have no way of knowing for sure.  However, I am extremely confident of Cruz's faith.  It has been manifested in virtually every aspect of his life!!!  And that is absolutely critical to his governing as President.  Remember how Reagan was so impacted by his faith when he was in the WH.  It was an integral part of Reagan's life and he acknowledged it publicly.