With the "death of God" came the rise of false idols that transcend the constraints of this world. So the 20th century saw the rise of the superhero.
Ummm.
GOD hasn't died ever. His son, perhaps, but not the Almighty Eternal GOD.
Quote from: milos on July 25, 2022, 09:05:53 AMWith the "death of God" came the rise of false idols that transcend the constraints of this world. So the 20th century saw the rise of the superhero.
The idea that God died, even in the sense that society abandoned him, is just a strawman the left created. In reality the vast majority of Americans still believe in God and its growing even as chruch attendance is falling. So what we are really seeing is just a rejection of the INSTITUTION of the church, not a rejection of God, the supernatural, or religion.
Quote from: T Hunt on September 16, 2022, 10:59:59 AMThe idea that God died, even in the sense that society abandoned him, is just a strawman the left created. In reality the vast majority of Americans still believe in God and its growing even as chruch attendance is falling. So what we are really seeing is just a rejection of the INSTITUTION of the church, not a rejection of God, the supernatural, or religion.
I hope you are right.
But we in the Eastern Orthodox Christianity believe that Jesus founded the Church, and that being a member of the Church and participating in the Holy Liturgy and Eucharist and accepting the Holy Communion, so becoming the Body of Christ, is the whole meaning of being Christian. And rejection of the Church Jesus founded and of his Eucharist would mean rejection of Jesus himself. Of course, people are criticising priests for not being spiritual enough, and really some of them are not, but also some of them are truly into Christian spirituality. But those kind of people are forgetting that it is not the Church of a priest but the Church of Jesus. So abandoning the Church of Jesus because some priest is corrupted is not a valid Christian choice.
The greatest problem begun with the Great Schism of 1054, when the Patriarch of Rome falsely claimed he was the first among the Patriarchs, which was a sin of narcissism and egoism. Since then, once unique Church is being divided into various different Churches and denominations, and that division is Satan's deed. There is also a Satan's Ecumenical movement which is another Satan's deception, because there is only one and original Church - the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the real Church can't be uniting with false Churches, the same way as the truth can't be uniting with lies. That is also a reason why the Eastern Orthodox Church is not proselytist, it just offers the truth, but it is not forcing anyone to believe in truth.
Quote from: milos on September 16, 2022, 12:06:46 PMI hope you are right.
But we in the Eastern Orthodox Christianity believe that Jesus founded the Church, and that being a member of the Church and participating in the Holy Liturgy and Eucharist and accepting the Holy Communion, so becoming the Body of Christ, is the whole meaning of being Christian. And rejection of the Church Jesus founded and of his Eucharist would mean rejection of Jesus himself. Of course, people are criticising priests for not being spiritual enough, and really some of them are not, but also some of them are truly into Christian spirituality. But those kind of people are forgetting that it is not the Church of a priest but the Church of Jesus. So abandoning the Church of Jesus because some priest is corrupted is not a valid Christian choice.
The greatest problem begun with the Great Schism of 1054, when the Patriarch of Rome falsely claimed he was the first among the Patriarchs, which was a sin of narcissism and egoism. Since then, once unique Church is being divided into various different Churches and denominations, and that division is Satan's deed. There is also a Satan's Ecumenical movement which is another Satan's deception, because there is only one and original Church - the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the real Church can't be uniting with false Churches, the same way as the truth can't be uniting with lies. That is also a reason why the Eastern Orthodox Church is not proselytist, it just offers the truth, but it is not forcing anyone to believe in truth.
Matthew 20:18
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
Quote from: T Hunt on September 17, 2022, 04:46:55 PMMatthew 20:18
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
Well, I can toss few quotes as well. :smile:
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." (Matthew 16:18)While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (Matthew 26:26-28)Then John's disciples came and asked him, "How is it that we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples do not fast?" Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast." (Matthew 9:14-15)Jesus told he will build his church. He gave his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. He said that his disciples will fast. In Matthew 20:18, when he said "gather in my name", it meant something more than just a gathering. Jesus told his disciples what to do and how to pray. That is why we have the Church, and the Holy Communion, and fasts and lents. Not to mention baptism or confession. Jesus himself was baptized by John. People begged Jesus to forgive their sins and heal them. Jesus ordained first twelve apostles, they ordained hundreds of other apostles, who ordained bishops and priests and deacons. It is the institution of the Church Jesus built.
I would highly recommend this English gentleman and his You Tube channel. In this video he talks about how he was seeking for the one and true Church.
Quote from: milos on September 19, 2022, 12:51:05 PMWell, I can toss few quotes as well. :smile:
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." (Matthew 16:18)
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (Matthew 26:26-28)
Then John's disciples came and asked him, "How is it that we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples do not fast?" Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast." (Matthew 9:14-15)
Jesus told he will build his church. He gave his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. He said that his disciples will fast. In Matthew 20:18, when he said "gather in my name", it meant something more than just a gathering. Jesus told his disciples what to do and how to pray. That is why we have the Church, and the Holy Communion, and fasts and lents. Not to mention baptism or confession. Jesus himself was baptized by John. People begged Jesus to forgive their sins and heal them. Jesus ordained first twelve apostles, they ordained hundreds of other apostles, who ordained bishops and priests and deacons. It is the institution of the Church Jesus built.
I would highly recommend this English gentleman and his You Tube channel. In this video he talks about how he was seeking for the one and true Church.
Yes but which specific church is the institution Jesus built? Catholics? Protestants? Orthodox? The ancient Ethiopian church?
Have you heard of the concepts of the VISIBLE and INVISIBLE churches?
Quote from: T Hunt on September 22, 2022, 02:51:08 PMYes but which specific church is the institution Jesus built? Catholics? Protestants? Orthodox? The ancient Ethiopian church?
Have you heard of the concepts of the VISIBLE and INVISIBLE churches?
Answer to the above .... NONE of those.
Quote from: T Hunt on September 22, 2022, 02:51:08 PMYes but which specific church is the institution Jesus built? Catholics? Protestants? Orthodox? The ancient Ethiopian church?
Have you heard of the concepts of the VISIBLE and INVISIBLE churches?
Orthodox, as the man explained in the video. It is the original Church.
Surely, not everyone in the "visible Church" will be saved, as many outside the "visible Church" will be saved. Because Jesus values only human hearts.
But, the "visible Church", that is the Eastern Orthodox, provides good tools for protection of a Christian believer and for his spiritual life, as there are many demonic deceptions and various kinds of attacks on human spirituality which can bring us to a wrong path. For example, the Antichrist will pretend that he is a highly spiritual man, and that he loves the human race and the Planet Earth, and he will decept many good people into serving him and abandoning God without them even noticing it. That is why we in the "visible Church" keep the watch and try to keep the original Jesus' path, we got the means to do it, like baptism, confession, Holy Communion, Holy Liturgy and prayers, fast and lent, and the experience of the Church we call Holy Tradition, which should all help us in our striving for the true Christian life and for becoming the Body of Christ (but with no guaranteed results of course).
It is like we got armor and shield and sword when we confront the enemy. You can have confidence in yourself that you can do everything bare handed, but it is still better to be armed. You got the Christian Bible, but it is also Eastern Orthodox.
Quote from: milos on September 23, 2022, 10:35:02 AMOrthodox, as the man explained in the video. It is the original Church. ...
Ummm, No.
Quote from: Snuffy on September 23, 2022, 12:19:04 PMUmmm, No.
Why do you think so? Which is the original Church in your opinion? Jesus told that he will build his Church and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. So the original Church still exists.
Because the "original Church", (a word never found in the ancient writings btw,) consists of the Lord's Chosen. Those members are slated for Heavenly life, thus Hades cannot overtake them. ("The Church" being people belonging to Christ, not a physical entity, but spiritual.)
The Jewish system at the time of Christ's life on earth rejected him as the Messiah, Christ's Father, GOD (YHWH,) in Heaven, rejected the Jewish system for that. That was clear in the renting of the curtain in the Temple between the Holy and the Most Holy.
With Christ now sanctified as The Messiah, Lord of GOD's People, (those whose faith is within their hearts and does not require a physical visible organization,) the Jewish religious system was no longer required. Thus the reason there is no longer a Temple of any kind to the Holy Sovern of the Universe. (And why a Muslim abomination stands in the Holy Temple's former location.)
Any man made representations of a "church" are condemned by GOD, and are representative in the form of the Babylonian Harlot of Revelation, who will shortly recieve her condemnation and total destruction at the hand of GOD's Appointed Messiah, at GOD's chosen time. And this destruction will be done by the other man made organizations, such as Governments.
(This of course is my interpretation ... as noted, yours may vary.)
Surely the real Church are those who are the Lord's chosen and saved, and only the Lord knows who are they.
But also, there is the visible Christ's life on Earth, and his visible teaching, and visible history of his deeds, and deeds of his disciples. If it was not for them spreading Christ's teaching, baptizing people, writing the gospels, etc, nothing would have left of the Christ's visible teaching, there would be no New Testament, no prayers, nor any remembrance that Jesus even existed. God wanted to offer everyone the opportunity to be saved through the visible things such as the Church and its Holy Mysteries, because he gave us free will, therefore he gave us the visible choice so that we can consciously decide whether we want to obey God or we don't. If there was not the Church as the institution, we couldn't have been talking about Jesus at all. It is the visible Church that saved Christ's teaching for us.
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
INVISIBLE CHURCH=All people who seek Jesus for forgiveness from any church, anywhere, anytime in history.
This is dependent on the heart and only God sees the heart. But humans can guess based on a persons words and actions.
1Samuel16
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart."
VISIBLE CHURCH=The physical organizations we see today. Historically speaking there is no unbroken connection to any modern churches from the original 12 disciples. It doesnt matter either. Its the Invisible church that matters. Arguing about which modern church is the original is a waste of time. What matters is spreading the good news of Jesus to the world, which is happening. Christianity is growing across the globe faster than any other religion.
Pertaining to all that you said prior to the below, I have to ask these questions.
Is GOD of Heaven so weak and so emasculated that you feel he can do nothing of his own initiative/power, without the "church"?
Who do you think instilled and guided the early Israelite nation, the then "Chosen People of GOD?"
Do you not think that if GOD wants his truth to survive in this world that he cannot do it on his own?
Why does HE need to rely on a man corrupted organization to do that?
Quote from: milos on September 28, 2022, 10:38:35 AM... If there was not the Church as the institution, we couldn't have been talking about Jesus at all. It is the visible Church that saved Christ's teaching for us.
Jesus had a couple words for the "church" of his time, speaking to the Scribes, Pharasies, and Saducees, you can find them in the following:
QuoteJohn 8:44, NASB: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies."
Point is, there is no man instituted "visible church". (Again a institution never mentioned in the Holy Writings.)
Quote from: T Hunt on September 28, 2022, 11:16:51 AMRomans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
INVISIBLE CHURCH=All people who seek Jesus for forgiveness from any church, anywhere, anytime in history.
This is dependent on the heart and only God sees the heart. But humans can guess based on a persons words and actions.
1Samuel16
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart."
VISIBLE CHURCH=The physical organizations we see today. Historically speaking there is no unbroken connection to any modern churches from the original 12 disciples. It doesnt matter either. Its the Invisible church that matters. Arguing about which modern church is the original is a waste of time. What matters is spreading the good news of Jesus to the world, which is happening. Christianity is growing across the globe faster than any other religion.
Historically speaking, the connection from the original 12 disciples was broken in the Patriarchate of Rome when they dropped off from the Church in 1054, from the Body of Christ, because they started preaching false beliefs, and so they were excluded from the Church. That is when the Church was called Eastern Orthodox, because of the four Patriarchates in the eastern Mediterranean - Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, and Constantinople - which preserved the true faith, unlike the Rome in the west. It does matter if one keeps true or false teachings when they call themselves a "Church".
The Church is the Body of Christ, and the Body of Christ is one and indivisible. There is only one Body of Christ, and therefore there is only one Church.
If you are claiming that Jesus founded only the "invisible Church", it is historically inaccurate. In the first place, Jesus himself was incarnated on Earth as a visible man in a human body, he was visibly preaching the Lord's teaching, he was visibly healing people and forgiving their sins, he visibly ordained first 12 apostles and gave them to eat his body and drink his blood. That is also what the "visible Church" is doing, the same as "visible Jesus", performing visible teachings and actions in the name of Jesus and with his presence and blessing, because Jesus is both God and High Priest present in his Church all the time, and ideally "visible" and "invisible" Church is one. The reason why in reality "visible" and "invisible" Church are not matched is because people have free will and therefore they can sin and not repent. But the people are those who are corrupted, not the Church, both "visible" and "invisible", because the Church itself is still one and holy. Of course that Jesus can be present wherever he wants, but the Church is his home.
Who decides which teachings are true and which are false? Well, the Church. So not all teachings that are called "Christian" are true, but only the ones which the Church approved. Why is that? Because Jesus is the Head of the Church, and he guides his Church to preserve true beliefs. But in contrary to the false "Church" in Vatican where they believe that one man, the Pope, is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, in the Church all decisions which concern the Christian belief are made by a council of bishops, and still they are not believed to be infallible, but those decisions must take the test of time, like in a true conservative manner. That is why we in the Eastern Orthodoxy never know, but we believe and hope, and try to surrender our will to Jesus. But in both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, they claim they know something. Some know the Pope is right, some know Martin Luther is right, some know Jean Calvin is right, some know they are saved, some know who is saved and who is not, some know the future from Biblical verses, etc. And they are all using the New Testament written and approved by the Eastern Orthodox Church and in a visible way, but they reject the Church that wrote it and approved it, which makes no sense. Using the visible New Testament written and approved by the visible Church, but still denying the same visible Church.
When the Antichrist arrive, he will most likely also call his teaching "Christian", and he will appear as a true Christian, that is why we stick to the "visible" Church in order to preserve our loyalty to Christ and true Christian beliefs, and not to be deceived by the Antichrist.
Quote from: Snuffy on September 30, 2022, 08:07:40 AMPertaining to all that you said prior to the below, I have to ask these questions.
Is GOD of Heaven so weak and so emasculated that you feel he can do nothing of his own initiative/power, without the "church"?
Who do you think instilled and guided the early Israelite nation, the then "Chosen People of GOD?"
Do you not think that if GOD wants his truth to survive in this world that he cannot do it on his own?
Why does HE need to rely on a man corrupted organization to do that?
Jesus had a couple words for the "church" of his time, speaking to the Scribes, Pharasies, and Saducees, you can find them in the following:
Point is, there is no man instituted "visible church". (Again a institution never mentioned in the Holy Writings.)
I never said that God can do nothing without his Church, but the visible Church is needed to call all people to salvation in a visible way. Because God gave us free will to follow him or not to follow him, and therefore we must be visibly offered a free choice.
God founded the Church on his own because he wanted his truth to survive. There are corrupted men in the Church, but the Church itself is not corrupted, but it is forever holy, because the Church is the Body of Christ, and the Body of Christ is forever holy and incorrupt.
Jesus is both Perfect God and Perfect Man, and he has instituted his visible Church, of which he is both God and High Priest.
No church can save you. Only Jesus saves, by grace through faith in His death and resurrection (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:9-10).
Quote from: Snuffy on October 01, 2022, 12:14:42 PMNo church can save you. Only Jesus saves, by grace through faith in His death and resurrection (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 10:9-10).
Of course that only Jesus saves.
But you say that Jesus founded only the "invisible" Church consisted of the saved ones, which is not true. Jesus ordained first twelve apostles, they ordained dozens of new apostles, and those ordained bishops, and bishops ordained priests, and priests ordained deacons, it is called apostolic succession, and it is the line of clergy which originates directly from Jesus Christ, it is the institution of the Church, together with the baptized believers.
Some apostles wrote gospels and epistles about Jesus' life and teachings, and they were accepted into the New Testament by the institution of the Church. It is the authority of the Church that gave the authority to the Holy Scriptures. Taking just the New Testament but rejecting the Church which brought it makes no sense whatsoever. The New Testament is part of the Church, and it can't be considered withouth the Church.
It also means that there is only one Church with one teaching, and everyone else calling themselves "Church" are imposters.
All of this and much more needed to be first before you could say "only Jesus saves, by grace through faith in His death and resurrection". You know that only Jesus saves because the institution of the Church told you so. Without the Church and its Scriptures, you would have known nothing about Jesus.
Quote from: milos on October 01, 2022, 04:44:36 AMHistorically speaking, the connection from the original 12 disciples was broken in the Patriarchate of Rome when they dropped off from the Church in 1054, from the Body of Christ, because they started preaching false beliefs, and so they were excluded from the Church. That is when the Church was called Eastern Orthodox, because of the four Patriarchates in the eastern Mediterranean - Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, and Constantinople - which preserved the true faith, unlike the Rome in the west. It does matter if one keeps true or false teachings when they call themselves a "Church".
Agreed, what a church teaches does matter. There are too many churches today that push gays or women pastors or forget about forgiveness or any number of other new age ideas that seep in.
QuoteThe Church is the Body of Christ, and the Body of Christ is one and indivisible. There is only one Body of Christ, and therefore there is only one Church.
I would disagree. The body of christ is present whenever communion is taken. And as the Bible says, "where two or three come together in my name, there I am with them."
QuoteIf you are claiming that Jesus founded only the "invisible Church", it is historically inaccurate. In the first place, Jesus himself was incarnated on Earth as a visible man in a human body, he was visibly preaching the Lord's teaching, he was visibly healing people and forgiving their sins, he visibly ordained first 12 apostles and gave them to eat his body and drink his blood. That is also what the "visible Church" is doing, the same as "visible Jesus", performing visible teachings and actions in the name of Jesus and with his presence and blessing, because Jesus is both God and High Priest present in his Church all the time, and ideally "visible" and "invisible" Church is one. The reason why in reality "visible" and "invisible" Church are not matched is because people have free will and therefore they can sin and not repent. But the people are those who are corrupted, not the Church, both "visible" and "invisible", because the Church itself is still one and holy. Of course that Jesus can be present wherever he wants, but the Church is his home.
Ok, but I dont see where he ever claimed that the visible church would continue in an unbroken line.
Think of it this way. Say my church, church A, is like the baptists and say that someone HAS to be an adult and be FULLY submerged in water in order to be baptized. Then say another church, church B, says that a few drops on a babies head are enough. And lets say this is enough for the two churches to not be in fellowship with each other.
But at the same time both churches still believe in Jesus forgiving our sins.
Well followers of both churches are still going to heaven even tho on baptism one is right and the other is wrong.
See where Im going with this?
QuoteWho decides which teachings are true and which are false? Well, the Church. So not all teachings that are called "Christian" are true, but only the ones which the Church approved. Why is that? Because Jesus is the Head of the Church, and he guides his Church to preserve true beliefs. But in contrary to the false "Church" in Vatican where they believe that one man, the Pope, is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, in the Church all decisions which concern the Christian belief are made by a council of bishops, and still they are not believed to be infallible, but those decisions must take the test of time, like in a true conservative manner. That is why we in the Eastern Orthodoxy never know, but we believe and hope, and try to surrender our will to Jesus. But in both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, they claim they know something. Some know the Pope is right, some know Martin Luther is right, some know Jean Calvin is right, some know they are saved, some know who is saved and who is not, some know the future from Biblical verses, etc. And they are all using the New Testament written and approved by the Eastern Orthodox Church and in a visible way, but they reject the Church that wrote it and approved it, which makes no sense. Using the visible New Testament written and approved by the visible Church, but still denying the same visible Church.
I disagree. The ONLY thing that determines what is and isnt correct teaching is the Bible, the word of God. Here is where the catholics went off the rails, they started using extra biblical sources to determine the will of God, things like the popes edicts and stuff. However, remember, Faith the size of a mustard seed will still save the soul. Mathmatically, any amount of faith greater than zero equals saving faith. (Faith>0=saved.)
QuoteWhen the Antichrist arrive, he will most likely also call his teaching "Christian", and he will appear as a true Christian, that is why we stick to the "visible" Church in order to preserve our loyalty to Christ and true Christian beliefs, and not to be deceived by the Antichrist.
I have always thought that the pope fit the description of the antichrist.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 10, 2022, 09:48:28 AMI would disagree. The body of christ is present whenever communion is taken.
Yes. But there is only one Communion, one Body of Christ, one Church. So, one Church is the right one, one Communion is the right one.
That doesn't mean nobody else outside the Church can't have God's blessing or can't be in some kind of contact with Jesus, but if we speak about the Church and the Communion, only one is the right one, and all others are false.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 10, 2022, 09:48:28 AMOk, but I dont see where he ever claimed that the visible church would continue in an unbroken line.
Think of it this way. Say my church, church A, is like the baptists and say that someone HAS to be an adult and be FULLY submerged in water in order to be baptized. Then say another church, church B, says that a few drops on a babies head are enough. And lets say this is enough for the two churches to not be in fellowship with each other.
But at the same time both churches still believe in Jesus forgiving our sins.
Well followers of both churches are still going to heaven even tho on baptism one is right and the other is wrong.
See where Im going with this?
Only God knows who is going to Heaven, we as people can't know, we can only guess or assume, but we can't know.
And then, there is only one baptism which is right, and it is in one Church which is right.
Protestants tend to see Christianity as an ideology, and then they discuss who got it right and who got it wrong. That is why there are so many denominations, because everyone believed they got it better than the previous one. But we in Eastern Orthodoxy follow the apostolic succession instead, it is the historical connection to historical Jesus, and although we don't know if he explicitly claimed "the visible Church would continue in an unbroken line", it naturally happened through the apostolic succession, and we highly appreciate it and call it holy. The hand of my priest is the hand of Jesus, through the apostolic succession. It is such an unimaginable holiness, above any discussion on who is right and who is wrong. It is such a holiness to receive the Body of Christ from Christ's hand during the Holy Communion because of the apostolic succession that everything else falls miles below.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 10, 2022, 09:48:28 AMI disagree. The ONLY thing that determines what is and isnt correct teaching is the Bible, the word of God. Here is where the catholics went off the rails, they started using extra biblical sources to determine the will of God, things like the popes edicts and stuff. However, remember, Faith the size of a mustard seed will still save the soul. Mathmatically, any amount of faith greater than zero equals saving faith. (Faith>0=saved.)
The New Testament is just one of the writings of the Church, but there are also many other writings of the Church as well. The gospels are just the Oral Tradition of the Church that was written down at some point. Sola Scriptura is a pure fantasy, it was never like that, but there was the Oral Tradition which left after Jesus, and many decades later some of it was written down. It is also a great misconception which some have that Christianity was based on the Book, that it is a religion of the Book - because Christianity was first, and the Book came after. So the Book was based on Christianity. Saint Peter didn't have the New Testament. Saint Paul didn't have the New Testament. But they had the Oral Tradition and the Church.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 10, 2022, 09:48:28 AMI have always thought that the pope fit the description of the antichrist.
I thought it as well, but I am not quite sure now, because the Antichrist will be loved and appreciated all over the World, and the Pope can't have such a reach, although he's trying. The Antichrist will unite all religions and bring World peace. Except for the Eastern Orthodoxy, because we believe we are the only right Church and the World should be united through the Eastern Orthodoxy, that is why the Eastern Orthodox Church will be condemned and persecuted by the Antichrist.
Quote from: milos on October 14, 2022, 11:27:18 AMYes. But there is only one Communion, one Body of Christ, one Church. So, one Church is the right one, one Communion is the right one.
That doesn't mean nobody else outside the Church can't have God's blessing or can't be in some kind of contact with Jesus, but if we speak about the Church and the Communion, only one is the right one, and all others are false.
But where is that in the bible? The bible actually says, whereever 2 or 3 come together in my name, there I am with them. It never says there is only one communion or only one physical church body. In fact the early church seemed to encourage individual churches to take care of themselves yet stay in fellowship.
QuoteOnly God knows who is going to Heaven, we as people can't know, we can only guess or assume, but we can't know.
Correct, only God sees the heart, but we have to try to glean the heart from the actions and attitudes of a person. There are clues...
QuoteAnd then, there is only one baptism which is right, and it is in one Church which is right.
Again, Im not seeing that in the bible....
QuoteProtestants tend to see Christianity as an ideology, and then they discuss who got it right and who got it wrong. That is why there are so many denominations, because everyone believed they got it better than the previous one. But we in Eastern Orthodoxy follow the apostolic succession instead, it is the historical connection to historical Jesus, and although we don't know if he explicitly claimed "the visible Church would continue in an unbroken line", it naturally happened through the apostolic succession, and we highly appreciate it and call it holy. The hand of my priest is the hand of Jesus, through the apostolic succession. It is such an unimaginable holiness, above any discussion on who is right and who is wrong. It is such a holiness to receive the Body of Christ from Christ's hand during the Holy Communion because of the apostolic succession that everything else falls miles below.
I dont think you can claim the orthodox church comes from an unbroken line. I dont think thats historically accurate.
QuoteThe New Testament is just one of the writings of the Church, but there are also many other writings of the Church as well. The gospels are just the Oral Tradition of the Church that was written down at some point. Sola Scriptura is a pure fantasy, it was never like that, but there was the Oral Tradition which left after Jesus, and many decades later some of it was written down. It is also a great misconception which some have that Christianity was based on the Book, that it is a religion of the Book - because Christianity was first, and the Book came after. So the Book was based on Christianity. Saint Peter didn't have the New Testament. Saint Paul didn't have the New Testament. But they had the Oral Tradition and the Church.
The only word of God in existence is the Bible. We are to take nothing away from it and add nothing too it. It was brought to us as is by God. Gods people didnt always have all of it, but the truths of both are present in both. Gods word has never altered and has always been the same, never contradictory.
QuoteI thought it as well, but I am not quite sure now, because the Antichrist will be loved and appreciated all over the World, and the Pope can't have such a reach, although he's trying. The Antichrist will unite all religions and bring World peace.
Ive heard it said there are many antichrists, and the one you are referring too will be the final one. Def not the current pope. I think the end times are along way off and we are about to enter a new golden age.
[/quote]Except for the Eastern Orthodoxy, because we believe we are the only right Church and the World should be united through the Eastern Orthodoxy, that is why the Eastern Orthodox Church will be condemned and persecuted by the Antichrist.[/quote]
Im just not seeing where you are getting that from...
Quote from: T Hunt on October 14, 2022, 07:21:49 PMBut where is that in the bible? The bible actually says, whereever 2 or 3 come together in my name, there I am with them. It never says there is only one communion or only one physical church body. In fact the early church seemed to encourage individual churches to take care of themselves yet stay in fellowship.
The only word of God in existence is the Bible. We are to take nothing away from it and add nothing too it. It was brought to us as is by God. Gods people didnt always have all of it, but the truths of both are present in both. Gods word has never altered and has always been the same, never contradictory.
You are still writing like Christianity was based upon the Bible, while actually the Christian Bible was based upon Christianity. First there was one Church and one Communion, and then that Church wrote the New Testament. Whenever you are referring to the New Testament, you are referring to a Church document. And it is not the only Church document, although it is the main one. For example, our Patriarch traditionally writes an epistle on Easter and on Christmas each year reminding us of what these holidays mean and also addressing some current spiritual issues, similarly to what the apostles did in their epistles.
You got Sola Scriptura from Martin Luther who was not even a priest, because Roman Catholics are not the Church since 1054.
True there are individual Churches that are taking care of themselves and yet staying in fellowship, it is called catholicism in Eastern Orthodoxy, meaning each diocese is full and complete Church with a Bishop, and all Bishops are equal to each other. Several dioceses are grouped into autocephalous Churches with a Patriarch or an Archbishop, and all of them are full and complete Church and equal to each other, with Jesus Christ as both God and High Priest, it is the territorial organization of One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church (Eastern Orthodox Church) from the very begining of Christianity.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 14, 2022, 07:21:49 PMIm just not seeing where you are getting that from...
Maybe from this. :smile:
We believe so, since the Eastern Orthodox Church is the home of Jesus on Earth. We are not allowed to pray together with any others calling themselves Church or denomination or religion or spiritual teaching. The Antichrist will accuse us of breaking the World peace and unity by our religious exceptionalism and not accepting of others. Maybe there are some other religions like Islam that also look intolerant toward others, but they will be used by the Antichrist, like current Muslim migration into Europe is used.
Quote from: milos on October 23, 2022, 07:37:35 AMYou are still writing like Christianity was based upon the Bible, while actually the Christian Bible was based upon Christianity. First there was one Church and one Communion, and then that Church wrote the New Testament. Whenever you are referring to the New Testament, you are referring to a Church document. And it is not the only Church document, although it is the main one. For example, our Patriarch traditionally writes an epistle on Easter and on Christmas each year reminding us of what these holidays mean and also addressing some current spiritual issues, similarly to what the apostles did in their epistles.
You got Sola Scriptura from Martin Luther who was not even a priest, because Roman Catholics are not the Church since 1054.
True there are individual Churches that are taking care of themselves and yet staying in fellowship, it is called catholicism in Eastern Orthodoxy, meaning each diocese is full and complete Church with a Bishop, and all Bishops are equal to each other. Several dioceses are grouped into autocephalous Churches with a Patriarch or an Archbishop, and all of them are full and complete Church and equal to each other, with Jesus Christ as both God and High Priest, it is the territorial organization of One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church (Eastern Orthodox Church) from the very begining of Christianity.
Maybe from this. :smile:
We believe so, since the Eastern Orthodox Church is the home of Jesus on Earth. We are not allowed to pray together with any others calling themselves Church or denomination or religion or spiritual teaching. The Antichrist will accuse us of breaking the World peace and unity by our religious exceptionalism and not accepting of others. Maybe there are some other religions like Islam that also look intolerant toward others, but they will be used by the Antichrist, like current Muslim migration into Europe is used.
That first sentence there exposes you completely.
The reality is that the bible, old and new testaments, are the infallible words of God himself. We can never add to them or take away. The bible is PERFECT, it has no contradictions or factual errors.
You seem to be trying to add to the word of God, which corrupts it. It seems like the orthodox needs a reformation as well to get mans law out of the church.
I really hope the whole orthodox church isnt that corrupt. I hope they stick to the bible, for the sake of their souls.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 24, 2022, 12:01:31 PMThat first sentence there exposes you completely.
The reality is that the bible, old and new testaments, are the infallible words of God himself. We can never add to them or take away. The bible is PERFECT, it has no contradictions or factual errors.
You seem to be trying to add to the word of God, which corrupts it. It seems like the orthodox needs a reformation as well to get mans law out of the church.
I really hope the whole orthodox church isnt that corrupt. I hope they stick to the bible, for the sake of their souls.
I am just trying to explain you the fact that the Orthodox Church wrote and approved the New Testament, it was inspired by Christ's life and teaching, but men wrote it, and men wrote more documents inspired by Christ's life and teaching not just the New Testament. First there was the Church, and then the Church wrote and approved the New Testament, it is a historical fact not my opinion. The Bible is not the source for Christianity, but Christianity is the source for the Christian Bible.
Maybe this short video would help. :smile:
You got Sola Scriptura from a man called Martin Luther who was not even a priest because the Roman Catholics were not the Church since 1054. And then he who was an ordinary man and not part of clergy reformed what? He reformed something that was not the Church, it was Reformation of nothing. It was a plain demonic deception, that he who was nobody reformed nothing, and now people believe in what he did. He replaced the Pope with the Bible, and now the Bible became infallible instead of the Pope, but both are wrong, because only God himself is infallible.
Jesus Christ, Son of God, he is the Word of God, he is God's Logos, and not the Bible, the Bible is just a book.
Even the Satan belives Jesus Christ is the Lord and the Savior, just believing that can't save anyone. There is much more to one's salvation, it is a constant struggle, that we live a Christian life in every moment, but we can't be perfect even then, and not even think for a moment that we are saved. Like in the Divine Liturgy the priest says, preparing the Holy Communion: "The Holy Gifts for the holy people of God.", and the people reply: "One is Holy, one is Lord, Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father. Amen." So we need the Eucharist in order to become the Body of Christ and receive Christ's holiness.
Another good video, about the salvation.
Quote from: milos on October 30, 2022, 01:43:09 AMI am just trying to explain you the fact that the Orthodox Church wrote and approved the New Testament, it was inspired by Christ's life and teaching, but men wrote it, and men wrote more documents inspired by Christ's life and teaching not just the New Testament. First there was the Church, and then the Church wrote and approved the New Testament, it is a historical fact not my opinion. The Bible is not the source for Christianity, but Christianity is the source for the Christian Bible.
Maybe this short video would help. :smile:
You got Sola Scriptura from a man called Martin Luther who was not even a priest because the Roman Catholics were not the Church since 1054. And then he who was an ordinary man and not part of clergy reformed what? He reformed something that was not the Church, it was Reformation of nothing. It was a plain demonic deception, that he who was nobody reformed nothing, and now people believe in what he did. He replaced the Pope with the Bible, and now the Bible became infallible instead of the Pope, but both are wrong, because only God himself is infallible.
Jesus Christ, Son of God, he is the Word of God, he is God's Logos, and not the Bible, the Bible is just a book.
Even the Satan belives Jesus Christ is the Lord and the Savior, just believing that can't save anyone. There is much more to one's salvation, it is a constant struggle, that we live a Christian life in every moment, but we can't be perfect even then, and not even think for a moment that we are saved. Like in the Divine Liturgy the priest says, preparing the Holy Communion: "The Holy Gifts for the holy people of God.", and the people reply: "One is Holy, one is Lord, Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father. Amen." So we need the Eucharist in order to become the Body of Christ and receive Christ's holiness.
Another good video, about the salvation.
No the bible are the words of God, both the old and the new. Men carried by the holy spirit wrote Gods words onto paper and passed them down. If you throw out the new as fallible you have to throw out the old testament as well.
Quote from: T Hunt on October 30, 2022, 01:42:07 PMNo the bible are the words of God, both the old and the new. Men carried by the holy spirit wrote Gods words onto paper and passed them down. If you throw out the new as fallible you have to throw out the old testament as well.
In Eastern Orthodoxy there is no concept of "infallible" or "fallible" man or book. Only God is perfect and infallible, men or books are just God's creations, we won't call them "infallible" or "fallible", they are just what they are, and what they are meant to be, and that is enough.
Surely and with no doubt both the Old and the New Testament were guided by the Holy Spirit. But your idea of "infallible Bible" comes from the idea of "infallible Pope". The Catholics have replaced Jesus with the Pope, and then the Protestants have replaced the Pope with the Bible.
But the Orthodox still say that only Jesus matters. We want to be the Body of Christ, and that is why the Holy Communion got the most important place in the Orthodox Church. The New Testament was originally written for the liturgical purposes to be read during Church services, it was not meant to be read and understood individually. It was only the invention of the printing press that made the Bible available for individual use, before that books were very rare and expensive, villages and towns usually had only one Bible which was in the church and it was read to the people during Church services. And historically most people were illiterate anyways, millions of Christians who lived and died on Earth have never read the Bible in their entire life, but they were still Christians, and many of them were probably saved. So that idea of the Bible as the main point in Christianity came only recently with the modern technology.
Quote from: milos on November 06, 2022, 02:54:31 AMIn Eastern Orthodoxy there is no concept of "infallible" or "fallible" man or book. Only God is perfect and infallible, men or books are just God's creations, we won't call them "infallible" or "fallible", they are just what they are, and what they are meant to be, and that is enough.
But all of Gods created all his creations perfect. The bible is Gods creation also and since the bible itself cant sin like man can, it is still perfect. There is no contradictions or factual fallacies in the bible anywhere.
QuoteSurely and with no doubt both the Old and the New Testament were guided by the Holy Spirit. But your idea of "infallible Bible" comes from the idea of "infallible Pope". The Catholics have replaced Jesus with the Pope, and then the Protestants have replaced the Pope with the Bible.
I agree about the catholics putting the pope before God. But The pope had NO part in the creation of the bible. The bible was infallible LONG before the idea of the pope speaking the words of God came about.
QuoteBut the Orthodox still say that only Jesus matters. We want to be the Body of Christ, and that is why the Holy Communion got the most important place in the Orthodox Church. The New Testament was originally written for the liturgical purposes to be read during Church services, it was not meant to be read and understood individually. It was only the invention of the printing press that made the Bible available for individual use, before that books were very rare and expensive, villages and towns usually had only one Bible which was in the church and it was read to the people during Church services. And historically most people were illiterate anyways, millions of Christians who lived and died on Earth have never read the Bible in their entire life, but they were still Christians, and many of them were probably saved. So that idea of the Bible as the main point in Christianity came only recently with the modern technology.
Disagree about the bible but see above.
Maybe you can tell me. How do orthodox handle communion? Like the mechanics. At what age do you start taking communion? Do you have to get confirmed first? Does the orthodox see it as pure bread and wine, pure body and blood, or a mix between the two? And how often do you take it?
Honestly ive never seen orthodox here in america anywhere so I know mostly about other denominations. Im learning the most I know about orthodox from what you are telling me in this thread.
Just an interesting thought...
Jesus did not die to start a religion. "We" created a religion out of His death.
He died to start a relationship....
How is your relationship with Him?
Quote from: Solars Toy on November 11, 2022, 08:27:35 AMJust an interesting thought...
Jesus did not die to start a religion. "We" created a religion out of His death.
He died to start a relationship....
How is your relationship with Him?
Beautiful.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 06, 2022, 08:48:17 AMBut all of Gods created all his creations perfect. The bible is Gods creation also and since the bible itself cant sin like man can, it is still perfect. There is no contradictions or factual fallacies in the bible anywhere.
I think in the Bible it says that God saw his creation was "very good", not "perfect". When we say "perfect", it can only refer to God, because he is the only one who is perfect and absolute.
We don't need to judge any man or any thing whether they are "infallible" or "fallible". God has created everyone and everything with a purpose, and that is enough.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 06, 2022, 08:48:17 AMMaybe you can tell me. How do orthodox handle communion? Like the mechanics. At what age do you start taking communion? Do you have to get confirmed first? Does the orthodox see it as pure bread and wine, pure body and blood, or a mix between the two? And how often do you take it?
Honestly ive never seen orthodox here in america anywhere so I know mostly about other denominations. Im learning the most I know about orthodox from what you are telling me in this thread.
In order to receive the Holy Communion, one needs to be baptized and chrismated in the Orthodox Church. It can be done since the very birth. In the beginning of the Church, the practice was that adults were prepared for baptism and chrismation, but later it was decided that it is better to baptize and chrismate babies from the very birth, to make sure they are members of the Church in case they die as infants.
During the baptism and chrismation, men usually have godfather and women usually have godmother to speak in their name and be their witness. I say "usually", because I was baptized and chrismated as a baby, and my grandmother was my godmother. After that, your godfather or godmother becomes your most important relative. The role of godfather and godmother is related to John the Baptist, because he baptized Jesus.
So, we can become members of the Church as early as we are babies, and we can take the Holy Communion immediately after our baptism and chrismation.
The Orthodox see the Holy Communion as literally the body and the blood of Jesus Christ. When Jesus blessed the bread and the wine during his Last Supper and gave them to his apostles, he said "this is my body" and "this is my blood". So we take it as he said, the Holy Communion is his body and his blood. We don't know how the bread and the wine becomes body and blood of Christ, so we call it a Holy Mystery. But Jesus is Logos through whom everything came to be, so he has got that creative power as God to say "this is my body" and then the bread becomes his body. There is a rather complicated way how the Holy Communion is prepared by the priests in the altar during the Divine Liturgy.
There are different opinions on how often we should take the Holy Communion. In the people, there is some superstition that it should not be taken that often because it is something the most holy. My grandmother who baptized me believed you should take it either once or three times a year, but it is just a superstition based on "one" and "three" as holy numbers. There are some priests who claim you should prepare for the Holy Communion by fasting on water for seven days. But it makes no sense. Because, the very purpose of the Divine Liturgy is to receive the Holy Communion. Now, imagine you come to a supper, but you refuse to eat, would you offend your host that way? Certainly. Jesus wants us to take part in his Holy Communion, like a doctor wants to give his medicine to his patient. But we also need to be a good patient who listens to his doctor. That is why we should follow God's commandments, we should keep regular fastings, we should attend the Divine Liturgy every Sunday, we should confess and repent our sins whenever we sin. Just as a good patient, we need to follow what our doctor has prescribed to us to cure us. So, we should take the Holy Communion every time we attend the Divine Liturgy, and it can be even every day, but we also have to be prepared for the Holy Communion by living a Christian life. Otherwise, if the patient doesn't follow the instructions of his doctor, he can't be cured.
Quote from: Solars Toy on November 11, 2022, 08:27:35 AMJust an interesting thought...
Jesus did not die to start a religion. "We" created a religion out of His death.
He died to start a relationship....
How is your relationship with Him?
I can't read Jesus' thoughts, but he said he will establish the Church. Now, some claim it is only the invisible Church consisted of the saved ones who are already with Jesus in Heaven, but we in the Eastern Orthodox Church find it obvious that the visible Church also exists through the apostolic succession, with the purpose to invite and help the people to be saved.
Our relationship with Jesus is based on being the members of his Church, on following his teaching and commandments, on participating in his Divine Liturgy, on confessing to him of our sins, on taking his Holy Communion, on beliving that he is God Logos through whom everything was made, on having the trust in him that he is our Lord and Savior.
Quote from: milos on November 14, 2022, 11:30:23 AMI can't read Jesus' thoughts, but he said he will establish the Church. Now, some claim it is only the invisible Church consisted of the saved ones who are already with Jesus in Heaven, but we in the Eastern Orthodox Church find it obvious that the visible Church also exists through the apostolic succession, with the purpose to invite and help the people to be saved.
Our relationship with Jesus is based on being the members of his Church, on following his teaching and commandments, on participating in his Divine Liturgy, on confessing to him of our sins, on taking his Holy Communion, on beliving that he is God Logos through whom everything was made, on having the trust in him that he is our Lord and Savior.
So how is that different from what I believe/do as a Christian?
Quote from: Solars Toy on November 14, 2022, 04:47:19 PMSo how is that different from what I believe/do as a Christian?
I don't know what you believe/do, so I can't tell. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: milos on November 19, 2022, 07:13:58 AMI don't know what you believe/do, so I can't tell. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I guess you missed your part of the statement you made that I bolded. Probably on purpose.
So since you don't want to respond - I see no further discussion with you on this topic. Toy
Quote from: Solars Toy on November 19, 2022, 07:16:57 AMI guess you missed your part of the statement you made that I bolded. Probably on purpose.
So since you don't want to respond - I see no further discussion with you on this topic. Toy
Does that mean you are Eastern Orthodox? If you believe/do everything that was bolded in my statement.
I don't know what Church or denomination you belong to, if any.
We in Eastern Orthodox Church believe it is the one and only Church. Others who are not in the Church are left to their conscience, and we don't believe they can't be saved. But as I said, the Church provides the Holy Communion as the perfect medicine for us because it is the true Body and Blood of Christ, so it is good to be a member of the Church. And if you are already accepting the New Testament from the Eastern Orthodox Church, then why not accept everything and be a member of the Church.
Quote from: milos on November 21, 2022, 12:56:13 AMDoes that mean you are Eastern Orthodox? If you believe/do everything that was bolded in my statement.
I don't know what Church or denomination you belong to, if any.
We in Eastern Orthodox Church believe it is the one and only Church. Others who are not in the Church are left to their conscience, and we don't believe they can't be saved. But as I said, the Church provides the Holy Communion as the perfect medicine for us because it is the true Body and Blood of Christ, so it is good to be a member of the Church. And if you are already accepting the New Testament from the Eastern Orthodox Church, then why not accept everything and be a member of the Church.
Until 1054 AD Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism were branches of the same body.
Why does one need a church for worship? Point being, one arguing over another's faith, is akin to arguing that Ford is better than Chevy.
Personally, I dumped all religion and now talk directly to God. Hmmm, is that a religion too? :biggrin:
Quote from: milos on November 21, 2022, 12:56:13 AMDoes that mean you are Eastern Orthodox? If you believe/do everything that was bolded in my statement.
I don't know what Church or denomination you belong to, if any.
We in Eastern Orthodox Church believe it is the one and only Church. Others who are not in the Church are left to their conscience, and we don't believe they can't be saved. But as I said, the Church provides the Holy Communion as the perfect medicine for us because it is the true Body and Blood of Christ, so it is good to be a member of the Church. And if you are already accepting the New Testament from the Eastern Orthodox Church, then why not accept everything and be a member of the Church.
In the original post you said "members of His Church" so you meant only Eastern Orthodox? Strange I never read that specific one mentioned in the Bible. Please correct me (book, chapter, verse) where that is the Church mentioned.
I will continue to follow Christ and do what I understand to be right. Questioning the legitimacy of another persons faith based upon what "religion" they belong to seems counterproductive to what Jesus came to earth for. Toy
Best of luck Milo.
Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2022, 05:28:22 AMUntil 1054 AD Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism were branches of the same body.
Why does one need a church for worship? Point being, one arguing over another's faith, is akin to arguing that Ford is better than Chevy.
Personally, I dumped all religion and now talk directly to God. Hmmm, is that a religion too? :biggrin:
Look in the bible history all the way back in the early days. In the beginning that was the only religion, talking with God. Although I guess people would have probly got together occasionally to sing and talk about God and stuff, but when you are hunter gatherers you might not see another person for a very long time.
Or another historical example might be the mountain men of the west who were on their own for long periods of time without a church or pastor, only themselves and God.....or a Toy too :lol: a marriage is three people after all, man woman and God.
Quote from: T Hunt on November 21, 2022, 06:58:17 AMLook in the bible history all the way back in the early days. In the beginning that was the only religion, talking with God. Although I guess people would have probly got together occasionally to sing and talk about God and stuff, but when you are hunter gatherers you might not see another person for a very long time.
Or another historical example might be the mountain men of the west who were on their own for long periods of time without a church or pastor, only themselves and God.....or a Toy too :lol: a marriage is three people after all, man woman and God.
:biggrin:
That's me! I pretty much lived in isolation in gods Country. No one around for miles, just me the critters and Gods land, with my hands in the mud, man tends to make a more spiritual connection, being that God created it all.
No distractions, all I had to talk to was my Dogs and God (Dog spelled backward was no accident) :biggrin:
Anyway, getting in touch with nature is about as close to God as one can get, so I can see why the early pioneers had no need for the church.
Though as cities grew, a need for the church grew as well since so many were too busy to stop and talk to God.
Quote from: Solar on November 21, 2022, 05:28:22 AMUntil 1054 AD Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism were branches of the same body.
Why does one need a church for worship? Point being, one arguing over another's faith, is akin to arguing that Ford is better than Chevy.
Personally, I dumped all religion and now talk directly to God. Hmmm, is that a religion too? :biggrin:
That animosity towards "organized religion" comes from Protestant Reformation of the Roman Catholic Church. But we in the Eastern Orthodoxy have different approach. We believe Jesus Christ is both our God and our High Priest, and therefore there is nothing to reform. Holy Communion is a real physical contact with Christ, and the most direct contact with Jesus you can get, taking his Body and becoming his Body. Why does one need the Church, because of the Holy Communion, because of becoming the Body of Christ, because Jesus said where two or three gather in his name, there is also he with them. Jesus is our good shepherd and we are his flock. Why is there only one Church? Because there is only one Body of Christ. (So comparison with cars doesn't make sense, there isn't only one car, but there is only one Body of Christ.) Sure, there are also Eastern Orthodox monks and hermits who have decided to live alone in the nature to find God and pray to him and talk to him, they who got such a desire and need to retreat from the human civilization and find inner peace in the nature. So it is a known thing.
Quote from: Solars Toy on November 21, 2022, 06:37:42 AMIn the original post you said "members of His Church" so you meant only Eastern Orthodox? Strange I never read that specific one mentioned in the Bible. Please correct me (book, chapter, verse) where that is the Church mentioned.
I will continue to follow Christ and do what I understand to be right. Questioning the legitimacy of another persons faith based upon what "religion" they belong to seems counterproductive to what Jesus came to earth for. Toy
Best of luck Milo.
The Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic since the time of the apostles. The Church is the Body of Christ. There is only one Body of Christ, and therefore there is only one Church. After the Great Schism of 1054 when the Church in Rome dropped off from the Body of Christ, the Church got the nickname, to say so, Eastern Orthodox, because of the Churches in the eastern Mediterranean that remained the Body of Christ, contrary to the Rome in the west. We say "Churches" because it is a territorial organization of the Church, but each of Eastern Orthodox Churches is the Church, and it is still called One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. We find that the Church and the faith is something objective, so there is no such a thing as "personal understanding of what is right", because such personal view can lead to fantasizing about Jesus and therefore to a self-deception.