Atheism and Trans: a debate

[Hoofer]

Hmm... Give it time, your way of thinking it should pop into your brain.   

Try a plunger, it'll come back.

[Possum]

Not at all.  An awareness of legalities or the influence of parents in teaching right from wrong are among the past experiences/prior causes that I'm referring to that determine the thoughts that drive our actions and decisions.

Your "wants" are also just the result of thoughts over which you have no control. If you decide you want a drink of water, you didn't author that thought, but you may or may not take action on it.  Your action or inaction is also the result of some thought/decision that originates at a neurological level of your brain that you don't control.   

so who or what is telling you what to respond?

[RV]

so who or what is telling you what to respond?

The demons, er, voices in his head!

[Possum]

The demons, er, voices in his head!

You mean the devil made him do it? 

[p1tchblack]

so who or what is telling you what to respond?

The same thing that is telling you how to respond. The neurological functionality of your brain. Our conscience awareness is downstream from all of the thoughts and decisions. All we do is experience them.

[Solar]

The same thing that is telling you how to respond. The neurological functionality of your brain. Our conscience awareness is downstream from all of the thoughts and decisions. All we do is experience them.

So I take it, you've never heard the voice of God stop you from doing something?
You may think I'm kidding, but I've heard it many times in my life and still do on occasion.

This was never me making a conscious and planned decision, this was from a higher power warning me off.

[p1tchblack]

So I take it, you've never heard the voice of God stop you from doing something?
You may think I'm kidding, but I've heard it many times in my life and still do on occasion.

This was never me making a conscious and planned decision, this was from a higher power warning me off.

No, I haven't.

[RV]

No, I haven't.

Oh I believe that the devil and his demons have been whispering to you. You may not have heard the Holy Spirit nor God but, you certainly have had demons and/or the devil tempting/taunting/whispering to you.

[Solar]

No, I haven't.

It's that voice which has led me throughout my life, that's made it blessed. Seriously, my friends always wanted me to go places because they knew if something bad were to happen, I and those close to me would not be effected.
I have always listened to that inner voice, have since I was 4 that I can remember. I never bought into religion, it wasn't for me, I didn't need a church mediator to talk to God, didn't need a church to be heard, I just make contact with whatever the higher power is and ask for guidance.

Try meditating, lose yourself and ask for insight, that's a good place to start.

[p1tchblack]

It's that voice which has led me throughout my life, that's made it blessed. Seriously, my friends always wanted me to go places because they knew if something bad were to happen, I and those close to me would not be effected.
I have always listened to that inner voice, have since I was 4 that I can remember. I never bought into religion, it wasn't for me, I didn't need a church mediator to talk to God, didn't need a church to be heard, I just make contact with whatever the higher power is and ask for guidance.

Try meditating, lose yourself and ask for insight, that's a good place to start.

I have meditated, but don't do so as much as I used to.  And, while I don't doubt that an all-powerful god could speak to you as a voice in your head, that would only be a second "voice" in your consciousness that you don't control.

Meditating, for me, was more about losing your sense of "self".  Realizing that there is no "I". There is no part of your brain that is "me".... there's just experiencing the flow of thought that gives us the feeling of self.  There are no thinkers of thoughts - there are only thoughts.

[Solar]

I have meditated, but don't do so as much as I used to.  And, while I don't doubt that an all-powerful god could speak to you as a voice in your head, that would only be a second "voice" in your consciousness that you don't control.

Meditating, for me, was more about losing your sense of "self".  Realizing that there is no "I". There is no part of your brain that is "me".... there's just experiencing the flow of thought that gives us the feeling of self.  There are no thinkers of thoughts - there are only thoughts.

So in essence, you're saying you are not an individual with individual and independent thoughts, that you're not responsible for your own actions, because they're not your own.

People think of God as an all powerful man in the clouds, so to speak, but truth is, a higher power is all around us and easily accessed if one has the ability to open ones mind to the gift that surrounds us.
In the vast cosmos of time, you are an individual with individual thoughts, that was the gift of life bestowed upon you, yet you want answers to questions man will never answer in a billion years, so you accept some primitive method of so called "science" as the final word.

Yes my friend, you seriously lack a spiritual side in your life, that's where you'll find all the answers to life.
I questioned all of this in the earliest years in life, I was given the answers then as well, and the answers are mind bogglingly simple, man tends to complicate everything, always taking a myopic approach to everything he encounters, when we should be looking outward.

You won't find the answer in a peer reviewed study, but you will find it within, just don't be afraid to ask something far bigger than yourself.

[p1tchblack]

So in essence, you're saying you are not an individual with individual and independent thoughts, that you're not responsible for your own actions, because they're not your own.

I am an individual who exists and has thoughts... unless this is all proven to be some Matrix-like simulation!  I am also still responsible, at least legally, for anything that I do.  Realizing that we don't control our thoughts and actions, but are only the result of prior causes and past experiences, wouldn't make an ax murderer any less dangerous, but it does take away the inclination to hate someone for being an ax murderer.

As I said earlier, and it's a really important concept to understand to "get" what I'm saying- there are no thinkers of thoughts; there are only thoughts. Nowhere in our brain is an "I" or "self" that exists outside of the flow of thoughts, feelings, intentions, etc. Our experience is that there's some "thing" behind our eyes that is the "I".  We believe that some thing exists independent of thought and experience, but that is not the case. 

People think of God as an all powerful man in the clouds, so to speak, but truth is, a higher power is all around us and easily accessed if one has the ability to open ones mind to the gift that surrounds us.
In the vast cosmos of time, you are an individual with individual thoughts, that was the gift of life bestowed upon you, yet you want answers to questions man will never answer in a billion years, so you accept some primitive method of so called "science" as the final word.

Yes my friend, you seriously lack a spiritual side in your life, that's where you'll find all the answers to life.
I questioned all of this in the earliest years in life, I was given the answers then as well, and the answers are mind bogglingly simple, man tends to complicate everything, always taking a myopic approach to everything he encounters, when we should be looking outward.

You won't find the answer in a peer reviewed study, but you will find it within, just don't be afraid to ask something far bigger than yourself.

I don't believe that the existence of a god would change the realities of how we function.

[Solar]

I am an individual who exists and has thoughts... unless this is all proven to be some Matrix-like simulation!  I am also still responsible, at least legally, for anything that I do.  Realizing that we don't control our thoughts and actions, but are only the result of prior causes and past experiences, wouldn't make an ax murderer any less dangerous, but it does take away the inclination to hate someone for being an ax murderer.

As I said earlier, and it's a really important concept to understand to "get" what I'm saying- there are no thinkers of thoughts; there are only thoughts. Nowhere in our brain is an "I" or "self" that exists outside of the flow of thoughts, feelings, intentions, etc. Our experience is that there's some "thing" behind our eyes that is the "I".  We believe that some thing exists independent of thought and experience, but that is not the case. 

I don't believe that the existence of a god would change the realities of how we function.

Your need to dissect thought leads to missing the bigger picture, that you are an individual capable of free thought. Science knows very little on any given subject.
We only understand the rudiments of our existence, trying to find simple answers in science in a subject man will never find an answer to is just silly to accept.
Keep in mind, there is no such animal as "Settled Science".

You are a culmination of your life's experiences, but you are also free to think independently of your environment. For this reason we journeyed beyond the grasp of our home to visit other planets, those who dreamed were not at the mercy of the limitations of their thoughts, they dared to venture beyond in search of answers.

[p1tchblack]

Your need to dissect thought leads to missing the bigger picture, that you are an individual capable of free thought. Science knows very little on any given subject.
We only understand the rudiments of our existence, trying to find simple answers in science in a subject man will never find an answer to is just silly to accept.
Keep in mind, there is no such animal as "Settled Science".

You are a culmination of your life's experiences, but you are also free to think independently of your environment. For this reason we journeyed beyond the grasp of our home to visit other planets, those who dreamed were not at the mercy of the limitations of their thoughts, they dared to venture beyond in search of answers.

When you say "you are free to think independently of your environment", what does that mean and how would that work?

[Solar]

When you say "you are free to think independently of your environment", what does that mean and how would that work?

Figure it out for yourself, you just might have an epiphany.