Quote from: Republitarian on January 07, 2020, 09:30:37 AM
They've done the same thing in my state, it yields the same results. Tackling the issues that cause homelessness is the only way to truly combat it, specifically mental health and substance abuse.

The liberals keep insisting on using other people's money to "fix" problems.

I've seen the majority of those same homeless given shelter end up on the streets again, because that system fails to look at why they are homeless in the first place. Of course, the temporary solution is much easier when you have other people's money to use and it makes you look great for election year!

Exactly. Where I live, the numbers in terms of the people the city and it's affiliates have for housing the homeless if very high. However, when you are on the streets and you actually see the reality of it, it's a vastly different story. Your correct in that it's easy for people to throw money at the problem and fix it. Sadly, that's all the liberals care about. So long as the numbers look good and they can pat themselves on the back come their fancy dinners, they could care less to the reality.

Quote from: joesixpack on January 07, 2020, 09:34:38 AM
I agree. That's why it's so important in the Finnish model that the people they house have access to mental health counselors and advisors.

What I would like to see are some individual cases of success. To me, while the assistance of councilors and mental health support is important, there seems to be no mention in the article in terms of contingencies that have been placed by the Finnish government that promote any sort of positive movement. Are there any contingencies on drug usage of these residents? Are the required to get a job before a certain point? How many of the people they house actually go on to achieve a job and become self sufficient? I see none of these statistics in the article, which leads me to believe that the number is not very high. This is essentially the equivalent of section-8 housing.

Yes, the numbers look good on paper, but that number is very baud and it does not indicate success. 4-5 people make their way back to a stable life, what does that mean exactly? If by stable they mean not living on the streets but in housing provided by and paid for by the government, that doesn't do any good. Anyone can sit in an apartment all day and collect welfare, but that shouldn't be an indication of success in their eyes.

So while it is a nice step to be taken, it's lacking stats are becoming far more glaring.

Quote from: joesixpack on January 07, 2020, 09:34:38 AM
I agree. That's why it's so important in the Finnish model that the people they house have access to mental health counselors and advisors.

And what do they suggest for the vast numbers who do not want mental health counselors and advisors? Or for those who do not want to obey the law? Part of the problem with the mental ill is they do not want anyone telling them what to do. Part of the problem with the drug addicts is they do not want to get off their drugs. Part of the problem is they are doing what they want, even if it is self destructive. In this country, people who want help can find it, or can find people who can find it for them.

Quote from: Solar on January 07, 2020, 09:34:53 AM
Nope, it says nothing about 3000, but I find it telling you were willing to lie about your bogus number, because your link clearly states, "150,000 and 300,000 individuals experience homelessness in Canada each year" in the opening paragraph.

people.https://www.homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/homelessness-101/how-many-people-are-homeless-canada

From the link:

III. Unsheltered (2,880). If one draws from the data comparing homelessness in Canadian cities, one can estimate the unsheltered population. On average, for every one hundred people in the shelter system, there are 20 people who are unsheltered.

I rounded up to 3K.

I honed in on those because shelters, non-profits, etc already help the rest enough so they're not on the street.

In the US, for example, there are over 194K unsheltered homeless according to the WH

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/The-State-of-Homelessness-in-America.pdf

Quote from: joesixpack on January 07, 2020, 09:27:26 AM
Ah, yours says it's about 5000 unsheltered.

Here's a link to the site where I got the 3000 from:

https://www.homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/homelessness-101/how-many-people-are-homeless-canada

From your link...
Reproduced from: Stephen Gaetz, Jesse Donaldson, Tim Richter, & Tanya Gulliver (2013). The State of Homelessness in Canada 2013. Toronto: Canadian Homelessness Research Network Press.

The number of Canadians who experience homelessness on any given night in Canada is estimated to be minimally 35,000 individuals. The reader should be cautioned that this is only a rough estimate

There may be as many as 50,000 "hidden homeless" Canadians on a given night.

Toy

Quote from: Solars Toy on January 07, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
From your link...
Reproduced from: Stephen Gaetz, Jesse Donaldson, Tim Richter, & Tanya Gulliver (2013). The State of Homelessness in Canada 2013. Toronto: Canadian Homelessness Research Network Press.

The number of Canadians who experience homelessness on any given night in Canada is estimated to be minimally 35,000 individuals. The reader should be cautioned that this is only a rough estimate

There may be as many as 50,000 "hidden homeless" Canadians on a given night.

Toy

okay, so 50K homeless is as small or smaller a percentage of homeless than we have here.

I only looked up Canada because Solar said "countries with socialist type systems have serious homeless problems"

Hmm...Subject line has

QuoteFinland ends homelessness

Should it not be 
Finland is working at ending homelessness?

I think joesixpack is flinging poo just to see if anything will stick.

Additional information Canada vs United States -  Population...

2018   
Canada                    United States
36,994,000      327,352,000   

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/canada/usa?sc=XE23

Quote from: walkstall on January 07, 2020, 12:48:08 PM
Hmm...Subject line has Should it not be 
Finland is working at ending homelessness?

I think joesixpack is flinging poo just to see if anything will stick.

Sure. I just copy and pasted the headline, fyi.

Quote from: Solars Toy on January 07, 2020, 12:58:54 PM
Additional information Canada vs United States -  Population...

2018   
Canada                    United States
36,994,000      327,352,000   

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/canada/usa?sc=XE23

Yup.

That's why I said as a percentage it's as small or smaller than us here.

Population, of course, has to be taken into account

Having worked in the "industry" of the welfare state there was always that percentage who didn't want help.  Going to a shelter would require them to follow some rules.  Rules they may not want to abide by. 

There were quite a few homeless shelters and other non-profits we worked with who would give help to those who truly wanted to be helped.

Toy

Quote from: Solars Toy on January 07, 2020, 01:04:02 PM
Having worked in the "industry" of the welfare state there was always that percentage who didn't want help.  Going to a shelter would require them to follow some rules.  Rules they may not want to abide by. 

There were quite a few homeless shelters and other non-profits we worked with who would give help to those who truly wanted to be helped.

Toy

Yeah. I think what's important is that the help is there for all those that actually want it.

Quote from: joesixpack on January 07, 2020, 01:05:33 PM
Yeah. I think what's important is that the help is there for all those that actually want it.

The bigger problem is with those who do not want the help, who do not want off the drugs, ect. What do you suggest there?

Quote from: joesixpack on January 07, 2020, 01:05:33 PM
Yeah. I think what's important is that the help is there for all those that actually want it.

There is. Why do you libs always want Govt to be the ones in charge, instead of letting the private sector manage it?
Point being, it is Govt that is the enabler, never trying to fix a problem, that in most cases, they created in the first place.

Quote from: Solar on January 07, 2020, 02:54:43 PM
There is. Why do you libs always want Govt to be the ones in charge, instead of letting the private sector manage it?
Point being, it is Govt that is the enabler, never trying to fix a problem, that in most cases, they created in the first place.

President Ronald Reagan called the phrase "the nine most terrifying words in the English language" in 1986. The phrase and Reagan's comments are still cited today;

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."