Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 03:17:57 PM
A lot of unrelated questions...but thank you for acknowledging that the Democrats were split between the "liberal"-North and "conservative"-South.

Those Southern Democrats voters, or Dixiecrats as they were called, were the ones that started voting Republican. That's the Party Switch I'm referring to.

Well, then you are wrong in your assumption. Here is what I wrote, "the southern were not true conservatives" see the difference in what you assumed? Go back and reread what I wrote, you got the whole post wrong. And can you answer the questions? 

When has the republican party ever stood for the socialist? When did the republican party stand for tearing down this country? or taking a knee? or any of the other B.S. that is now the democrat platform?

Let's see if this helps, the democrats by their move to the left is the reason the south started voting for the republicans. John Tower who started out as a democrat switched to republican and won a senate seat in '61. The reason he switched parties was the democrats no longer held to his values, he was elected by people who felt the same way.

Quote from: Possum on July 23, 2020, 03:41:17 PM
Well, then you are wrong in your assumption. Here is what I wrote, "the southern were not true conservatives" see the difference in what you assumed? Go back and reread what I wrote, you got the whole post wrong. And can you answer the questions? 

When has the republican party ever stood for the socialist? When did the republican party stand for tearing down this country? or taking a knee? or any of the other B.S. that is now the democrat platform?

Let's see if this helps, the democrats by their move to the left is the reason the south started voting for the republicans. John Tower who started out as a democrat switched to republican and won a senate seat in '61. The reason he switched parties was the democrats no longer held to his values, he was elected by people who felt the same way.

You can label the voters however you'd like. But the fact remains, those (historically racist) Dixiecrat/Southern Democrat voters vote for Republicans now. That's the switch.


But for the sake of argument, maybe I can follow your logic if you explain what a Conservative is by your definition?

Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
You can label the voters however you'd like. But the fact remains, those (historically racist) Dixiecrat/Southern Democrat voters vote for Republicans now. That's the switch.


But for the sake of argument, maybe I can follow your logic if you explain what a Conservative is by your definition?

I'm sure he'll agree with this.


What Is Conservatism?
This is a question that eludes many people, including conservatives.  It is often incorrectly described as an ideology.  It is not an ideology, which is an adherence to a rigid set of beliefs regardless of human experience.  An ideology must ignore conservative principals.

Conservatism is a way of life.  A conservative treats others with respect, and will never infringe upon one's life, liberty, or property.

An exemplary conservative does not exist.  Conservatism is not shipped with an instruction manual.  It consists of natural law, God's law, i.e, "do unto others", and common sense.

Conservatism is the absence of government control over the individual.  The individual decides how he defines the states' power in protecting his liberties.  Every human being has God given inalienable rights.

Conservative principals have been honed by years of human experience, based on reason, history, thinking, reading, observation, and traditions.

The conservative believes in the social contract that binds a healthy and working harmonic society, even something as innocuous as accepting which side of the road to drive on.  We embrace change, but slow, adaptive change, as opposed to the cultural disruptions anti-conservatism demands.  We favor the preservation of established customs, as values agreed upon edicts a binding society.

Free market principals are sacred to conservatives, where voluntary agreement or exchange occurs between parties without government intrusion.  A free market is the foundation of a free, peaceful society.

The doctrine of the equality of mankind and the desirability of political and economic and social equality helps define the conservative.  A conservative believes in egalitarianism where color or race plays no part in a conservative's life.  There is no such thing as "special rights", as such a failing would result in someone else's liberties being trampled.

Conservatism is not a political party, and especially not defined as a modern day Republican.

Another route we might consider for examples of conservatism, such as life lessons, is "lead by example", or be the best you can be in a particular job in life. Even with the most menial of jobs, always be the best, because for one, you never knows who's watching, and there is more than a 50/50 chance it will open the next door in your life.

If for nothing else, personal integrity (honesty), satisfaction in knowing you did your best. This is what allows a conservative to always take the high road over that of the unprincipled liberal.

Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
You can label the voters however you'd like. But the fact remains, those (historically racist) Dixiecrat/Southern Democrat voters vote for Republicans now. That's the switch.


But for the sake of argument, maybe I can follow your logic if you explain what a Conservative is by your definition?

Then why are the democrats still raciest?

Quote from: Solar on July 23, 2020, 03:56:38 PM
I'm sure he'll agree with this.


What Is Conservatism?
This is a question that eludes many people, including conservatives.  It is often incorrectly described as an ideology.  It is not an ideology, which is an adherence to a rigid set of beliefs regardless of human experience.  An ideology must ignore conservative principals.

Conservatism is a way of life.  A conservative treats others with respect, and will never infringe upon one's life, liberty, or property.

An exemplary conservative does not exist.  Conservatism is not shipped with an instruction manual.  It consists of natural law, God's law, i.e, "do unto others", and common sense.

Conservatism is the absence of government control over the individual.  The individual decides how he defines the states' power in protecting his liberties.  Every human being has God given inalienable rights.

Conservative principals have been honed by years of human experience, based on reason, history, thinking, reading, observation, and traditions.

The conservative believes in the social contract that binds a healthy and working harmonic society, even something as innocuous as accepting which side of the road to drive on.  We embrace change, but slow, adaptive change, as opposed to the cultural disruptions anti-conservatism demands.  We favor the preservation of established customs, as values agreed upon edicts a binding society.

Free market principals are sacred to conservatives, where voluntary agreement or exchange occurs between parties without government intrusion.  A free market is the foundation of a free, peaceful society.

The doctrine of the equality of mankind and the desirability of political and economic and social equality helps define the conservative.  A conservative believes in egalitarianism where color or race plays no part in a conservative's life.  There is no such thing as "special rights", as such a failing would result in someone else's liberties being trampled.

Conservatism is not a political party, and especially not defined as a modern day Republican.

Another route we might consider for examples of conservatism, such as life lessons, is "lead by example", or be the best you can be in a particular job in life. Even with the most menial of jobs, always be the best, because for one, you never knows who's watching, and there is more than a 50/50 chance it will open the next door in your life.

If for nothing else, personal integrity (honesty), satisfaction in knowing you did your best. This is what allows a conservative to always take the high road over that of the unprincipled liberal.

I think Possum will find that those Dixiecrats adhered to these principles:

Conservatism is the absence of government control over the individual.  The individual decides how he defines the states' power in protecting his liberties.  Every human being has God given inalienable rights.

The conservative believes in the social contract that binds a healthy and working harmonic society, even something as innocuous as accepting which side of the road to drive on.  We embrace change, but slow, adaptive change, as opposed to the cultural disruptions anti-conservatism demands.  We favor the preservation of established customs, as values agreed upon edicts a binding society.

Free market principals are sacred to conservatives, where voluntary agreement or exchange occurs between parties without government intrusion.  A free market is the foundation of a free, peaceful society.


Those folks vote Republican now, Possum.

Thanks for the post, Solar. Good to understand where you're coming from.

Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 04:31:40 PM
I think Possum will find that those Dixiecrats adhered to these principles:

Conservatism is the absence of government control over the individual.  The individual decides how he defines the states' power in protecting his liberties.  Every human being has God given inalienable rights.

The conservative believes in the social contract that binds a healthy and working harmonic society, even something as innocuous as accepting which side of the road to drive on.  We embrace change, but slow, adaptive change, as opposed to the cultural disruptions anti-conservatism demands.  We favor the preservation of established customs, as values agreed upon edicts a binding society.

Free market principals are sacred to conservatives, where voluntary agreement or exchange occurs between parties without government intrusion.  A free market is the foundation of a free, peaceful society.


Those folks vote Republican now, Possum.

Thanks for the post, Solar. Good to understand where you're coming from.

Joe, after the war, the south voted for the democrats because of reconstruction and continued to. There was an old saying that a yellow dog could get elected before a republican. It explains why johnson could get elected in Texas. That changed in 61. Now answer my question, You said the democrats were raciest, if the parties shifted,  why are the democrats still the raciest?

Quote from: Solar on July 23, 2020, 03:56:38 PM
I'm sure he'll agree with this.


What Is Conservatism?
This is a question that eludes many people, including conservatives.  It is often incorrectly described as an ideology.  It is not an ideology, which is an adherence to a rigid set of beliefs regardless of human experience.  An ideology must ignore conservative principals.

Conservatism is a way of life.  A conservative treats others with respect, and will never infringe upon one's life, liberty, or property.

An exemplary conservative does not exist.  Conservatism is not shipped with an instruction manual.  It consists of natural law, God's law, i.e, "do unto others", and common sense.

Conservatism is the absence of government control over the individual.  The individual decides how he defines the states' power in protecting his liberties.  Every human being has God given inalienable rights.

Conservative principals have been honed by years of human experience, based on reason, history, thinking, reading, observation, and traditions.

The conservative believes in the social contract that binds a healthy and working harmonic society, even something as innocuous as accepting which side of the road to drive on.  We embrace change, but slow, adaptive change, as opposed to the cultural disruptions anti-conservatism demands.  We favor the preservation of established customs, as values agreed upon edicts a binding society.

Free market principals are sacred to conservatives, where voluntary agreement or exchange occurs between parties without government intrusion.  A free market is the foundation of a free, peaceful society.

The doctrine of the equality of mankind and the desirability of political and economic and social equality helps define the conservative.  A conservative believes in egalitarianism where color or race plays no part in a conservative's life.  There is no such thing as "special rights", as such a failing would result in someone else's liberties being trampled.

Conservatism is not a political party, and especially not defined as a modern day Republican.

Another route we might consider for examples of conservatism, such as life lessons, is "lead by example", or be the best you can be in a particular job in life. Even with the most menial of jobs, always be the best, because for one, you never knows who's watching, and there is more than a 50/50 chance it will open the next door in your life.

If for nothing else, personal integrity (honesty), satisfaction in knowing you did your best. This is what allows a conservative to always take the high road over that of the unprincipled liberal.

Fantastic answer.

Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 04:31:40 PM
I think Possum will find that those Dixiecrats adhered to these principles:

Conservatism is the absence of government control over the individual.  The individual decides how he defines the states' power in protecting his liberties.  Every human being has God given inalienable rights.

The conservative believes in the social contract that binds a healthy and working harmonic society, even something as innocuous as accepting which side of the road to drive on.  We embrace change, but slow, adaptive change, as opposed to the cultural disruptions anti-conservatism demands.  We favor the preservation of established customs, as values agreed upon edicts a binding society.

Free market principals are sacred to conservatives, where voluntary agreement or exchange occurs between parties without government intrusion.  A free market is the foundation of a free, peaceful society.


Those folks vote Republican now, Possum.

Thanks for the post, Solar. Good to understand where you're coming from.

See, that's the thing, one doesn't suddenly change values, and that's the point about Conservatism and liberalism, they are polar opposites today.
I doubt the Dims of the day suddenly gained moral values.
So the question is, why do you support the DNC? Have you no values?

Quote from: Possum on July 23, 2020, 04:50:24 PM
Fantastic answer.

Thanks, I thought it aligned with your beliefs.

Quote from: Solar on July 23, 2020, 06:12:39 PM
See, that's the thing, one doesn't suddenly change values, and that's the point about Conservatism and liberalism, they are polar opposites today.
I doubt the Dims of the day suddenly gained moral values.
So the question is, why do you support the DNC? Have you no values?

The Dixiecrats didn't have to change their values in order to align with the Republican party. Possum said that the northern-Democrats were so liberal, the Dixiecrats and their voters sided with Republicans.

Reagan said that the he didn't leave the Dems, the Dems left him.

So, my point is, that the values that changed were that of the Democratic Party. The Dixiecrats and their voters did not change their values. On that, we agree. And they didn't have to. The Republican Party aligned with their values well enough for them to join that party.

And if you look at a map of the House vote to remove the Confederate statues:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/116-2020/h156


Those same Dixiecrats, who are now Republicans, are the 'No" votes. Just like they voted "No" on most anything related to Civil Rights.

It's still them. And they're Republicans now unfortunately.

Quote from: Possum on July 23, 2020, 04:47:44 PM
Joe, after the war, the south voted for the democrats because of reconstruction and continued to. There was an old saying that a yellow dog could get elected before a republican. It explains why johnson could get elected in Texas. That changed in 61. Now answer my question, You said the democrats were raciest, if the parties shifted,  why are the democrats still the raciest?

Am I reading your response correctly? It appears that we agree on the Party Switch...let me know if I'm not misunderstanding you...

Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 06:55:30 PM
The Dixiecrats didn't have to change their values in order to align with the Republican party. Possum said that the northern-Democrats were so liberal, the Dixiecrats and their voters sided with Republicans.

Reagan said that the he didn't leave the Dems, the Dems left him.

So, my point is, that the values that changed were that of the Democratic Party. The Dixiecrats and their voters did not change their values. On that, we agree. And they didn't have to. The Republican Party aligned with their values well enough for them to join that party.

And if you look at a map of the House vote to remove the Confederate statues:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/116-2020/h156


Those same Dixiecrats, who are now Republicans, are the 'No" votes. Just like they voted "No" on most anything related to Civil Rights.

It's still them. And they're Republicans now unfortunately.

Gee Joe, how many decades have passed since?

Quote from: joesixpack on July 23, 2020, 06:55:43 PM
Am I reading your response correctly? It appears that we agree on the Party Switch...let me know if I'm not misunderstanding you...

Joe, there are still democrats in the south, many of them. They are the ones who believe in racism, destroying, tearing down statues, against the church, etc. Your argument seems to believe that everyone just went republican. Now, ask yourself, what happened to the republicans in the north? Where are they? Who is doing the looting? Look at all the gun violence in the democrat run places, is that caused by republicans.

Quote from: Possum on July 24, 2020, 03:38:15 AM
Joe, there are still democrats in the south, many of them. They are the ones who believe in racism, destroying, tearing down statues, against the church, etc. Your argument seems to believe that everyone just went republican. Now, ask yourself, what happened to the republicans in the north? Where are they? Who is doing the looting? Look at all the gun violence in the democrat run places, is that caused by republicans.

I find it fascinating he admitted the DNC is not only racist at heart, but the party Hell bent on destroying this Nation.

Quote from: Solar on July 24, 2020, 04:44:53 AM
I find it fascinating he admitted the DNC is not only racist at heart, but the party Hell bent on destroying this Nation.

It is a damn shame they do not teach history anymore. Or how to think for one's self.
The mayor of Portland marching with the protesters, siding with them as they destroyed, and the whole time the protesters were telling him to f--k off. This is your democratic party. Antifa has and will not stop with just tearing down the confederate statues, they want to tear down Columbus, Washington, Jefferson, etc, they want to destroy this country and punks who back them are too stupid to see it. Joe's whole point was to "prove" the republicans are raciest, when all he had to do was oopen his damn eyes and see where all the hatred is occurring. Nobody is tearing down anything because they love this country!!