Below is a link to an editorial from a few years ago.  What do all of you think?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gun-rights-for-ex-felons-20150611-story.html

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 10, 2021, 06:24:10 PMBelow is a link to an editorial from a few years ago.  What do all of you think?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gun-rights-for-ex-felons-20150611-story.html

Each state has laws about that.   Get a lawyer and see what they can do about that.  If you can't do the time don't do crime.

Quote from: walkstall on July 10, 2021, 06:32:59 PMEach state has laws about that.  Get a lawyer and see what they can do about that.  If you can't do the time don't do crime.

Should those state laws even be permitted or are they unconstitutional? To me, the Constitution is very clear. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Now, I think we all understand that when you are actually incarcerated you don't get to exercise the majority of your rights. However, once you have done your time and paid your debt to society, I don't think it's constitutional to continue to deny you're rights.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 10, 2021, 06:40:38 PMShould those state laws even be permitted or are they unconstitutional? To me, the Constitution is very clear. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Now, I think we all understand that when you are actually incarcerated you don't get to exercise the majority of your rights. However, once you have done your time and paid your debt to society, I don't think it's constitutional to continue to deny you're rights.

I think that once you do your time you are a citizen again just like everyone else. However, we obviously make child sex criminals go into a database (tho these people are sick so I dont think they should ever be released but need to go to some institute.)
Knee jerk reaction is that felons should get gun rights back UNLESS they used a gun to commit their felony in the first place.

That being said the entire justice system is fucked up beyond reason by both the deepstate(by design) and the shady as shit lawyers who want as much litigation as possible.
So Im not sure that every crime which is a felony really should be a felony. But the whole system is confusing as hell (by design) so that the average citizen NEEDS a Gatekeeper in order to navigate it.

In Back To The Future 2 when they said they abolished lawyers in the future I thought, "Thats a future I can get behind."

But none of this can be fixed until we have honesty in government and trump has completely drained the swamp.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 10, 2021, 07:45:32 PMI think that once you do your time you are a citizen again just like everyone else. However, we obviously make child sex criminals go into a database (tho these people are sick so I dont think they should ever be released but need to go to some institute.)
Knee jerk reaction is that felons should get gun rights back UNLESS they used a gun to commit their felony in the first place.

That being said the entire justice system is fucked up beyond reason by both the deepstate(by design) and the shady as shit lawyers who want as much litigation as possible.
So Im not sure that every crime which is a felony really should be a felony. But the whole system is confusing as hell (by design) so that the average citizen NEEDS a Gatekeeper in order to navigate it.

In Back To The Future 2 when they said they abolished lawyers in the future I thought, "Thats a future I can get behind."

But none of this can be fixed until we have honesty in government and trump has completely drained the swamp.

To me, the Constitution is very clear when it says "Shall not be infringed".

I would also say that a released felon, regardless of his crime, should be able to own a gun for the same reasons we do: protect yourself, protect your family and protect against the government.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 11, 2021, 03:10:31 AMTo me, the Constitution is very clear when it says "Shall not be infringed".

I would also say that a released felon, regardless of his crime, should be able to own a gun for the same reasons we do: protect yourself, protect your family and protect against the government.

I would tend to agree once the prison sentence is served and restitution is paid to the victims. Where I see this as a non issue, seems the bad guys who are getting out of jail early, or on many cases serving no time, in cities like Chicago seem to have no problem getting guns while the law abiding citizen can not get them for protection. I would rather see the law abiding citizens get their rights first, and then lets look at getting the criminals off the streets, then we can look at can ex felons legally own guns.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 11, 2021, 03:10:31 AMTo me, the Constitution is very clear when it says "Shall not be infringed".

I would also say that a released felon, regardless of his crime, should be able to own a gun for the same reasons we do: protect yourself, protect your family and protect against the government.

Correct. The govt cannot infringe on that right. But once again you dont seem to understand the situation. In my example the govt isnt infringing on their right.

The govt isnt infringing if they give it up themselves. Criminals give up liberty when they have to go to jail, and they give up life when they kill someone.

Going with that logic, I would say anyone who is a member of organized crime is a domestic terrorist and guilty of treason. Career criminals are attacking American citizens. Thus members of the mafia/cartels/antifa/blm have given up their constitutional rights and ought to be treated as enemies of the state.

Quote from: Possum on July 11, 2021, 04:21:06 AMI would tend to agree once the prison sentence is served and restitution is paid to the victims. Where I see this as a non issue, seems the bad guys who are getting out of jail early, or on many cases serving no time, in cities like Chicago seem to have no problem getting guns while the law abiding citizen can not get them for protection. I would rather see the law abiding citizens get their rights first, and then lets look at getting the criminals off the streets, then we can look at can ex felons legally own guns.

Right, this whole discussion is sorta moot until most of the system gets overhauled and the lefts corruption removed from it. Until then these philosophical discussions dont really matter that much. Until the big problems are removed there is no point fine tuning the system.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 11, 2021, 03:10:31 AMTo me, the Constitution is very clear when it says "Shall not be infringed".

I would also say that a released felon, regardless of his crime, should be able to own a gun for the same reasons we do: protect yourself, protect your family and protect against the government.

This is such a silly debate, it's literally the chicken and the egg argument.
Sure, we have a Constitution, states quite clearly to protect the Rights of equality, Pursuit of happiness.
And locking someone up based on his nonsense, is clearly a violation of the Constitution.

With that said, if some idiot decides to abuse said Rights to usurp the life of another with his gun, did he not just revoke said Rights?
Now, if we were top follow Gods law, he immediately cedes his own Right to life.
Is this the BS you claim where his Rights were "infringed"?

Using your illogic, it would appear his Rights were violated, so it's pretty apparent he should have been allowed to walk free, with his gun in hand.
Just pointing out the absurdity of the LIBertarian approach to life in general.

I might point something out. LIBertarians and Dims are literally at opposite ends of the spectrum.
LIBertarians want no govt, while Dims want an overbearing govt.

Conservatives align solidly with our Founders Principles, that govt is a necessary evil, one needed to be created so as to keep power in check.
Of course our predecessors didn't share those ideals and freed the binds that kept govt in check, as history proves out time and time again.

That is is always the left that abuses the power of the govt.

Quote from: Possum on July 11, 2021, 04:21:06 AMI would tend to agree once the prison sentence is served and restitution is paid to the victims. Where I see this as a non issue, seems the bad guys who are getting out of jail early, or on many cases serving no time, in cities like Chicago seem to have no problem getting guns while the law abiding citizen can not get them for protection. I would rather see the law abiding citizens get their rights first, and then lets look at getting the criminals off the streets, then we can look at can ex felons legally own guns.

The court system determined punishment. The person who committed the crime shouldn't be held responsible for a light sentence. (BTW, I don't believe many convicted felons get off without prison time)

But, if youvet done your time and are now a free person, it seems to me that "shall not be infringed" kicks in and you should be able to own a gun for the reasons I mentioned above.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 11, 2021, 06:21:05 AMRight, this whole discussion is sorta moot until most of the system gets overhauled and the lefts corruption removed from it. Until then these philosophical discussions dont really matter that much. Until the big problems are removed there is no point fine tuning the system.

Yet, this entire section of the site, dedicated to the Constitution, exists 

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 11, 2021, 10:01:09 AMYet, this entire section of the site, dedicated to the Constitution, exists 

Once again you misread .
Im not saying its not fun to have these discussions, because it really is fun. And useful too as a mental exercise.

Im just saying that we cannot forget the bigger picture here, and that we shouldnt get too fired up about the little things as they are now because after trump everything will look different.

A person who has committed a serious crime (a real felony- but that is another argument) THEY HAVE MADE A CHOICE.

They have CHOSEN to give up their rights as a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

They are no longer to me a citizen.

Now once they have paid their lawful penalties then one should petition to reclaim SOME of their rights such as the right to own a weapon.  They have ALREADY PROVEN that they lacked the judgement or whatever to DESERVE THEIR FULL RIGHTS.

Bottom line is if you do the crime you will pay for it the rest of your life. That is reality.  Too many want to hide from that reality.

Quote from: winterset on July 11, 2021, 10:45:14 AMA person who has committed a serious crime (a real felony- but that is another argument) THEY HAVE MADE A CHOICE.

They have CHOSEN to give up their rights as a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

They are no longer to me a citizen.

Now once they have paid their lawful penalties then one should petition to reclaim SOME of their rights such as the right to own a weapon.  They have ALREADY PROVEN that they lacked the judgement or whatever to DESERVE THEIR FULL RIGHTS.

Bottom line is if you do the crime you will pay for it the rest of your life. That is reality.  Too many want to hide from that reality.

Your opinion is a common one for Left and Right.  But  again  I would say that the Constitution is pretty clear and I can't think of anything more important than our constitutional rights.

It's a sad day for freedom when the government can set the rules in a way that, even after paying your debt to society, we allow them to indefinitely rescind our rights.  The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution doesn't say "shall not be infringed, except for felons".