Quote from: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2016, 12:38:02 PM
Here's the classified ads for Tulsa.  I found work from home scams and a sales associate that requires a degree.

https://www.classifiedads.com/tulsa-retail_jobs-2.html

Then quit reading those classified ads.

Quote from: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2016, 12:42:12 PM
Should have but they were after thoughts.  This thread is exactly why people are running to Sanders and Trump.  Just saying.  Its the disregard for the welfare of fellow Americans and the criticism of who they are.  We are all Americans who deserve respect.  And when people who are working get laid off it isn't a opportunity for the more educated or fortunate to gloat.

I have no idea what you're talking about.  And no, not everyone deserves respect.  Respect needs to be earned.

Quote from: Hoofer on February 15, 2016, 08:42:44 AM
Trained in both, but saw Transport as the long term.  Maybe 10 years ago, IP started gaining over SONET, then it was all merged together, now, just a handful of SONET rings still running, everyone has gone to IP, DWDM waves (rapidly changing, again).

Sometimes people don't realize the differences and keep thinking / troubleshooting one way.  For instance, SONET is TDM, static, dual path, path switched by the end terminals with dumb transport in the middle.  IP is always point-to-point Linear, but with intelligence at each switched point, very dynamic - so each link needs to be examined individually during a outage / trouble, including regen / amps.  In the SONET days, a single fiber cut was no big deal, a 6ms path switch.  Today it's scramble to find another path that's not gonna get overloaded, rebuild circuits, etc.

This kinda work isn't for everyone, we work in the worst conditions, terrible hours - and divorce & other stress related problems are high.  Having the right wife helps.  I absolutely LOVE the work, but there are FEW that understand it beyond the "water hose" example... you hook up, someone turns on the spigot, you got Internet.  DWDM, OCGs, is as foreign to people as how a T1 works using TDM ("D" channel, "B" channel... what's that?  All I see is wires?)

Once you got the basics down, the rest comes easily.  Problem is:  Kids don't want to take the time and learn the foundational stuff, so they can't troubleshoot effectively.  The jobs are there, and our company does train right-off-the-street, the right persons.

I come from the telecom world too.  Did a lot of application programing with telephony cards, etc...  I miss those days.

Quote from: taxed on February 17, 2016, 04:38:30 AM
I come from the telecom world too.  Did a lot of application programing with telephony cards, etc...  I miss those days.

When I had my own business, I ran a Definity (former AT&T System 75) in my basement.  I'd get calls for programming changes, UCD DCD groups, and set it up first on my system, then log into their system and essentially duplicate it, knowing it would work - they thought I was some kind of genius!   LOL  We had 20+ extensions around the farmhouse, and the basement was always nice and toasty from that beast running 24/7.

Worked on every Key system ... favorite was Iwatsu ADIX.   When I saw one of those running submerged in a basement of a grade school, still taking calls, intercom, etc., I knew that was one tough box.

Although... I have witnessed smoke pouring out of a Definity a few times, 'cause someone punched down two ports against eachother!  Still ran, simply amazing.

Point is - I started with NOTHING, but some guy who wanted help pulling cable.  In less than 6 months of doing anything, anytime, anywhere, I fell into a couple of AT&T courses, and after a few years was able to rebuild AUDIX VM systems, switches with gray market and off-the-shelf components.   

If a person is willing to work, there is alot of after-hours work that's great for launching a business at your speed... sort of like mowing lawns on the weekends.

Quote from: Hoofer on February 17, 2016, 10:17:28 AM
When I had my own business, I ran a Definity (former AT&T System 75) in my basement.  I'd get calls for programming changes, UCD DCD groups, and set it up first on my system, then log into their system and essentially duplicate it, knowing it would work - they thought I was some kind of genius!   LOL  We had 20+ extensions around the farmhouse, and the basement was always nice and toasty from that beast running 24/7.

Worked on every Key system ... favorite was Iwatsu ADIX.   When I saw one of those running submerged in a basement of a grade school, still taking calls, intercom, etc., I knew that was one tough box.

Although... I have witnessed smoke pouring out of a Definity a few times, 'cause someone punched down two ports against eachother!  Still ran, simply amazing.

Point is - I started with NOTHING, but some guy who wanted help pulling cable.  In less than 6 months of doing anything, anytime, anywhere, I fell into a couple of AT&T courses, and after a few years was able to rebuild AUDIX VM systems, switches with gray market and off-the-shelf components.   

If a person is willing to work, there is alot of after-hours work that's great for launching a business at your speed... sort of like mowing lawns on the weekends.

In the Summer time I have to mow my lawn about ever 3 to 4 days.   Or fire up a Swather.   

Quote from: walkstall on February 17, 2016, 10:31:33 AM

In the Summer time I have to mow my lawn about ever 3 to 4 days.   Or fire up a Swather.   

First time I visited California, I saw "Green Painted Grass" - and laughed, it was so crunchy under my feet. 

My brother-in-law said, "at least we don't have to CUT it, and it always looks perfect!"

yeah, good point...

Girl meets guy in a bar, "So what do you do for a living?"
Guy replies, "Paint grass!  Got any brown bushes that need painting?"

Quote from: Hoofer on February 17, 2016, 08:04:39 PM
"So what do you do for a living?"
Guy replies, "Paint grass!  Got any brown bushes that need painting?"

I think what we are looking at here is normal weeding.  I thought Wal-Mart Express and Neighborhood stores were  good ideas. Is the whole idea no good, or did they just close slow stores? In the Express concept, the big store is kind of like the Mother Ship.
We note that half the closings are in Brazil and Latin America. This is entirely acceptable and predictable. Wal Mart Mexico is expected to be a  huge success, but, after all, folks, we are talking about many unforeseen pitfalls as well as future successes in that unchartered territory.
As for the closing of Super Wal Marts and Sam's Clubs in the USA, note
also some 300 new stores are being built now.
Wal Mart is not going to sit around on stores for sentimental reasons. The real interest ought to be in the fundamental factors beneath the performances. Things like, "Where did we go wrong, here?" I can tell you without looking that unruly behavior on the grounds is not something Wal Mart has much tolerance for.
Personally, I see big changes in the knowledge and commitment being shown by the individual department staffs. Our gun counter is staffed by gun guys, the electronics, cell phone, and camera people know what they are talking about. Same goes for  the clothing people. The food folks, we hardly see them, except for the deli.

Quote from: red_dirt on February 18, 2016, 07:56:46 PMPersonally, I see big changes in the knowledge and commitment being shown by the individual department staffs. Our gun counter is staffed by gun guys, the electronics, cell phone, and camera people know what they are talking about. Same goes for  the clothing people. The food folks, we hardly see them, except for the deli.

I have NEVER seen a Walmart employee in the electronics department that knew much about electronics. Ask them a technical question and watch their face go blank.

Quote from: Hoofer on February 17, 2016, 10:17:28 AM
When I had my own business, I ran a Definity (former AT&T System 75) in my basement.  I'd get calls for programming changes, UCD DCD groups, and set it up first on my system, then log into their system and essentially duplicate it, knowing it would work - they thought I was some kind of genius!   LOL  We had 20+ extensions around the farmhouse, and the basement was always nice and toasty from that beast running 24/7.

Worked on every Key system ... favorite was Iwatsu ADIX.   When I saw one of those running submerged in a basement of a grade school, still taking calls, intercom, etc., I knew that was one tough box.

Although... I have witnessed smoke pouring out of a Definity a few times, 'cause someone punched down two ports against eachother! Still ran, simply amazing.

We had a data center at a new co-lo we built out I worked a deal for (a carrier that would be gobbled up by Level 3).  They provided the generator power and cooling, and we just ran cable from our equipment to the trunks in the next room.  Anyhoo, this was a new concept I was working with them, and if successful, they were going to bring in other companies, so this was untested in terms of them housing a data center.  One night I was out with my girlfriend at dinner, and for some reason, out of the clear blue, something just told me I should run by the data center and check on it.  I told my girl I was going to be in and out and we'll be on our way while she waited in the car.  How surprised was I when I walked in and felt the cooling wasn't working and saw condensation dripping from piping up on the ceiling.  After a solid 10 second panic where I spun in a circle grabbing my hair trying to figure out what to do.  I called the VP of the carrier and told him to get a tarp and get down there.  Thankfully the drops were hitting the top of the chassis of the servers (sometimes we left them open if we were working on them).  If I didn't decide to check on the data center that night, it would have been really interesting the next morning.  The odd thing is everything was fine after we got moved in and situated, and it was on another part of town, so there was no reason why I would need to check on them.  Total divine intervention.  My girl hated that I was always getting pulled away for stuff, so that night, she wasn't thrilled being all dressed up standing on a ladder helping me drape over the tarp.  I told her those tarps were the difference between us eating out at $200 dinners vs Taco Bell.

Quote
Point is - I started with NOTHING, but some guy who wanted help pulling cable.  In less than 6 months of doing anything, anytime, anywhere, I fell into a couple of AT&T courses, and after a few years was able to rebuild AUDIX VM systems, switches with gray market and off-the-shelf components.   

If a person is willing to work, there is alot of after-hours work that's great for launching a business at your speed... sort of like mowing lawns on the weekends.

Same here.  I started in my late teens working for a company, and I wanted to work with the engineers, so I constantly hounded them until they gave me little tasks I could take off their plate.  I would stay up all night, learning C and reading their code, reading Unix books, learning about telephony programming, and on and on while my friends were playing video games and watching TV.  I kept at it, and finally, I got good enough and was helpful to where I got moved into the engineering department, which started me off on my career path, eventually becoming a business owner, since I had the knowledge base of the business.  Most people just sit around and don't improve themselves.  When I hear about people who aren't happy with their lives and careers, I just can't empathize with them.  I think about my loser friends telling me I work too much while I was face-deep in a book about compilers.  They could have taught themselves anything.  Electrical engineering, AUTOCAD, HVAC, networking, or anything.  They didn't.  They're still broke losers.

Quote from: ZQuickSilverZ on February 19, 2016, 05:16:03 AM
I have NEVER seen a Walmart employee in the electronics department that knew much about electronics. Ask them a technical question and watch their face go blank.

Same here. The one in my area only cares that you can breathe and stand upright on your own, and even that's negotiable.

Quote from: taxed on February 19, 2016, 07:34:48 AMMost people just sit around and don't improve themselves.  When I hear about people who aren't happy with their lives and careers, I just can't empathize with them.  I think about my loser friends telling me I work too much while I was face-deep in a book about compilers.  They could have taught themselves anything.  Electrical engineering, AUTOCAD, HVAC, networking, or anything.  They didn't.  They're still broke losers.

These are the same type of people that work an entry level job their whole life then complain about how the rich are screwing them. Fight415 indeed. I know these people because I used to BE one of these people before I snapped out of it.

It never dawns on them that if they want a business to invest in them they should show some initiative and invest in themselves first. Why should a business invest in YOU if YOU won't invest in YOU?

Quote from: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2016, 12:38:02 PMHere's the classified ads for Tulsa.  I found work from home scams and a sales associate that requires a degree.

https://www.classifiedads.com/tulsa-retail_jobs-2.html

Quote from: ZQuickSilverZ on February 14, 2016, 08:33:53 AMYou having fun trolling? Because that is exactly what your doing. You narrow your search pattern to retail jobs and come on here trying to make a point.

Nothing to say? Yeah, I would be embarrassed to.

We have all kinds of opportunity in Tulsa. Many jobs here provide tuition reimbursement. How many do you think take advantage of it? We have places here that do on the job training as well as formal apprenticeship programs. However much like your joke of a job search most people see exactly what they want to see and what they want to see keeps them unemployed.

When we lost our jobs at American Airlines I tried to point someone toward free training and job placement for CNC machining. Do you think he took advantage of that?

They still offer free training and job placement. See the video below.

https://www.facebook.com/TulsaCommunityWorkAdvance/videos/827607077351383/

Quote from: ZQuickSilverZ on February 19, 2016, 11:50:28 AM
These are the same type of people that work an entry level job their whole life then complain about how the rich are screwing them. Fight415 indeed. I know these people because I used to BE one of these people before I snapped out of it.

It never dawns on them that if they want a business to invest in them they should show some initiative and invest in themselves first. Why should a business invest in YOU if YOU won't invest in YOU?

Here is my critique of your analysis.   In my opinion, I think the problem is ignorance.   The problem gets even more complex.   They don't even realize they're ignorant and they think they know the problem is when they really do not.   They have no clue as to how to invest in themselves or know that they're supposed to.   They have no clue as to what they're supposed to do.   It is not a sense of entitlement nor a sense of wanted to just start at the top that is the problem.   

The problem is much deeper.   A number of people do not even know where the bottom is at and a number of them do not know how rise up from it.   

I created this mini hierarchical chart.   


Pretend each entity which is represented by letters is a job, position or where you want to be in life.   E, F and G are different entities that have no children nodes which means they represent the bottom.   B,C, and D are the next steps up and A is the top.   EB represents a path (In this case path from E to B.)   

Where the issue lies is that a number of people were told that H led to D or any other entity on that level.   They were told that path HD was the valid path or other words the college degree was the bottom which is not so at all as represented by the red mark out sign.   Now, imagine being taught this all of your life from cradle to now even it is a falsehood.   By parents, schools and other institutions.  From their perspective, they believe that they earned the positions they went to school for and in their mind they were cheated from what they thought they validly earned. 

They don't even realize they're ignorant.   This is called an out of context problem.   There are people who are so ignorant that they don't even realize that they're ignorant.  Imagine all of a sudden being that this idea is completely wrong and boneheaded.   What happens is the same as with the seven stages of grief.



You may have went through the same thing. 




Adjusted jpg size.
walks

Quote from: cubedemon on February 19, 2016, 12:55:17 PM
Here is my critique of your analysis.   In my opinion, I think the problem is ignorance.   The problem gets even more complex.   They don't even realize they're ignorant and they think they know the problem is when they really do not.   They have no clue as to how to invest in themselves or know that they're supposed to.   They have no clue as to what they're supposed to do.   It is not a sense of entitlement nor a sense of wanted to just start at the top that is the problem.   

The problem is much deeper.   A number of people do not even know where the bottom is at and a number of them do not know how rise up from it.   

I created this mini hierarchical chart. 


Pretend each entity which is represented by letters is a job, position or where you want to be in life.   E, F and G are different entities that have no children nodes which means they represent the bottom.   B,C, and D are the next steps up and A is the top.   EB represents a path (In this case path from E to B.)   

Where the issue lies is that a number of people were told that H led to D or any other entity on that level.   They were told that path HD was the valid path or other words the college degree was the bottom which is not so at all as represented by the red mark out sign.   Now, imagine being taught this all of your life from cradle to now even it is a falsehood.   By parents, schools and other institutions.  From their perspective, they believe that they earned the positions they went to school for and in their mind they were cheated from what they thought they validly earned. 

They don't even realize they're ignorant.   This is called an out of context problem.   There are people who are so ignorant that they don't even realize that they're ignorant.  Imagine all of a sudden being that this idea is completely wrong and boneheaded.   What happens is the same as with the seven stages of grief.



You may have went through the same thing.

Many were led to believe that B, C and D were to be bypassed a bit with a college education, that you were somehow better than those that started at the bottom.
Truth is, college should be represented by a tiny box one tenth the size illustrated.

But essentially you're correct, I just took issue with the scale of representation.



Adjust jpg size.
walks

Quote from: cubedemon on February 19, 2016, 12:55:17 PMYou may have went through the same thing.

I assure you I was not in shock when American Airlines cut a position that paid over 20/hr that anyone could learn to do in a week. I saw it coming a mile away. That is why I went to school while I was working. Foresight and preparation.

What most shocks me is the people who get degrees that do not even research if the degree is actually marketable. They are heartbroken when their degree in Women's Studies or Interior Design does not land them that $100k+ a year job. I mean you have to laugh.

You can bet when I went for my CCNA I made sure it was marketable before I wasted my time and money. I got out of school Friday and had a job Monday.  I am studying for my CCNP now. I put effort in AFTER I got the job to improve my skillset...... I did not just settle. See how that works?

I was in the ER with my wife Valentines day and got to talking with a young lady that registers patients. She had a BA in Business Administration and she was working night shift at a hospital for $11 an hour...........

You can only use ignorance as an excuse for so long. Eventually you have to ask yourself what you are doing wrong and make some adjustments.

I don't feel sorry for people that are in a bad position over a long period of time because they made stupid decisions and continue to follow the same path. Stupid is supposed to hurt.