Seattle minimum-wage hike did nothing for workers
BY ED MORRISSEY
Democrats, the media, and now even the Republican presidential nominee push a minimum-wage hike as a way to get more money to workers. Does that actually succeed? Seattle pushed its minimum wage up by $1.53 an hour to $11 last year, so workers should be rolling in extra dough by now, right? Er ... wrong.
In fact, a new study reported by the Washington Post suggests workers actually lost money overall — and that the potential upside only amounted to pennies for those workers who didn't end up on the unemployment line:
The average hourly wage for workers affected by the increase jumped from $9.96 to $11.14, but wages likely would have increased some anyway due to Seattle's overall economy. Meanwhile, although workers were earning more, fewer of them had a job than would have without an increase. Those who did work had fewer hours than they would have without the wage hike.
Accounting for these factors, the average increase in total earnings due to the minimum wage was small, the researchers concluded. Using their preferred method, they calculated that workers' earnings increased by $5.54 a week on average because of the minimum wage. Using other methods, the researchers found that the minimum wage hike actually caused total weekly earnings to drop — by as much as $5.22 a week.
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/29/wapo-seattle-minimum-wage-hike-did-nothing-for-workers-you-know/
But that doesn't stop the socialists in both parties from pushing for a national minimum wage hike. Facts mean nothing to politicians. If it sounds good and attracts voters, hell run with it. Who cares about the outcome. :rolleyes:
Are they saying the higher salaries and strong Seattle tech and construction sectors are trickling down and saving the minimum wage victims from an even worse scenario?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: taxed on July 30, 2016, 11:54:48 AM
Are they saying the higher salaries and strong Seattle tech and construction sectors are trickling down and saving the minimum wage victims from an even worse scenario?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And they keep asking.
Why do I have to work 3 or 4 part time jobs to get a 40 hr week. You can't fix stupid!!!
Quote from: walkstall on July 30, 2016, 12:44:41 PM
And they keep asking. Why do I have to work 3 or 4 part time jobs to get a 40 hr week. You can't fix stupid!!!
I have even heard some democrats using Seattle as an example that the higher minimum wage has no impact on the workers.
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 30, 2016, 12:55:40 PM
I have even heard some democrats using Seattle as an example that the higher minimum wage has no impact on the workers.
There like Hillary and Trump "the first liar have a chance."
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 30, 2016, 12:55:40 PM
I have even heard some democrats using Seattle as an example that the higher minimum wage has no impact on the workers.
They can get away with those lies because people want to believe that the minimum wage hike will help them. Of course, the leftists in the media help them believe those lies. It's oonly when reality strikes that they wake up. Some don't even then.
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 30, 2016, 12:55:40 PM
I have even heard some democrats using Seattle as an example that the higher minimum wage has no impact on the workers.
I am not an CPA but my brother is. But I would think they would jump up into a new tax bracket. So I would think it more money for the Government/State/SS then the worker.
Quote from: tac on July 30, 2016, 06:12:57 AM
Seattle minimum-wage hike did nothing for workers
BY ED MORRISSEY
Democrats, the media, and now even the Republican presidential nominee push a minimum-wage hike as a way to get more money to workers. Does that actually succeed? Seattle pushed its minimum wage up by $1.53 an hour to $11 last year, so workers should be rolling in extra dough by now, right? Er ... wrong.
Hot Air is a conservative American political blog. It is written by the pseudonymous Allahpundit, Ed Morrissey, Mary Katharine Ham, Erika Johnsen, and Jazz Shaw on the weekends.
-Wikipedia.
not counting that the source is less than ...I don't even know what to say its like asking your drunk uncle Ned what he thinks about minimum wage....ok....
I know several HR people in Seattle area and their businesses have had about zero impact with this.
Now, I don't know if $15 is the number it seems random but I do know if we look back to 1968 and adjust for inflation the number we get today is about $11.00 which is where my state also is headed this year and even though the CPI is made up at least I can appreciate the effort to tie this to some logical number because $7.25 is stupid for the United States of America.
lets look at the economics. When someone making minimum wage gets a wage what happens? THEY SPEND IT!!! Almost all people living on their own making minimum wage SPEND ALL THEIR MONEY just to live! And that money goes DIRECTLY into the economy consuming something...products, services, something...and it creates demand which creates JOBS.
raising the minimum wage in a MODERATE manner will GROW our economy for all of us.
FAct is you guys have a choice to make, either belly up to the bar and start to discuss these things and find some common ground (with US) or keep hitting yourselves in the head getting angrier and angrier... because the nation is moving ahead with or without you...and we are not going back to 1850 or even 1950.
so you have a long future of political defeats if your strategy is to cling to immovability on anything and everything.
The world is different than the man behind the curtain is telling you. And together we can accomplish great things. But alone, you will be complaining about everything for a long time to come. Unless this is what you want. In that case, forget everything I just said because it wont matter anyway.
I'm just saying.
Enjoy the weekend its a great time to be an American!!!
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 30, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Hot Air is a conservative American political blog. It is written by the pseudonymous Allahpundit, Ed Morrissey, Mary Katharine Ham, Erika Johnsen, and Jazz Shaw on the weekends.
-Wikipedia.
not counting that the source is less than ...I don't even know what to say its like asking your drunk uncle Ned what he thinks about minimum wage....ok....
Irrelevant, if it wasn't right wing, then it would be left wing, there is no such thing as neutral anymore.
QuoteI know several HR people in Seattle area and their businesses have had about zero impact with this.
Anecdotal at best. If your industry can afford an HR dept, then most likely you're not paying entry level min wage for long.
QuoteNow, I don't know if $15 is the number it seems random but I do know if we look back to 1968 and adjust for inflation the number we get today is about $11.00 which is where my state also is headed this year and even though the CPI is made up at least I can appreciate the effort to tie this to some logical number because $7.25 is stupid for the United States of America.
lets look at the economics. When someone making minimum wage gets a wage what happens? THEY SPEND IT!!! Almost all people living on their own making minimum wage SPEND ALL THEIR MONEY just to live! And that money goes DIRECTLY into the economy consuming something...products, services, something...and it creates demand which creates JOBS.
raising the minimum wage in a MODERATE manner will GROW our economy for all of us.
Pure bull shit! Unbridled capitalism as in free mkt principal grows the economy, in that it will always find middle ground in what is best for employee and employer, it is not an adversarial relationship as the way the left wants it, so they can control the masses.
QuoteFAct is you guys have a choice to make, either belly up to the bar and start to discuss these things and find some common ground (with US) or keep hitting yourselves in the head getting angrier and angrier... because the nation is moving ahead with or without you...and we are not going back to 1850 or even 1950.
No, you listen up! You either allow us to run business with as little govt interference, or kiss small business good bye.
I know, I remember when the leftists pushed another min wage on me back in the 80s, I was forced to lay two people off, one part time one full time so as to offset the increase.
Most small business struggle where payroll is concerned, which is why the future of franchise is looking to kiosks and no employees.
Yeah, your so called liberal caring is killing small business, and hurting people.
Quoteso you have a long future of political defeats if your strategy is to cling to immovability on anything and everything.
The world is different than the man behind the curtain is telling you. And together we can accomplish great things. But alone, you will be complaining about everything for a long time to come. Unless this is what you want. In that case, forget everything I just said because it wont matter anyway.
I'm just saying.
Enjoy the weekend its a great time to be an American!!!
That man behind the curtain is Soros! Yes, the commie is the one feeding this min wage bull shit. So quit being so damned gullible!
Minimum wage requirements really make starting a small business difficult.
Today, I was at an event, from 8am til 2pm - 6 hours of potential "sale" time.
I earned $10, "S" earned $26, "Z" earned $14.
Yeah, sales sucked for all 3 of us, the business grossed $249 total.
After I take out travel expenses, table rentals, tickets & commissions, we have $89 left.
When I take out the cost to manufacture the finished product we sold, $92, you can see we lost money.
What I didn't account for is breakfast, and lunch, biscuits and sandwiches - nobody made anything, we each dug into our pockets today.
Tell me I have to pay minimum wage to a "non-performer" who can't sell squat, but wants to learn, I'm left with 2 outcomes.
a. They will never have the opportunity to learn this highly marketable skill, because I'd go broke before they could pay their way.
b. I will just have to do -everything- myself, and my fledgling business will take a decade to break even instead of 3-4 years.
I see the "net" result quite clearly as this government regulation will keep 2 inexperienced individuals from learning and developing sales skills. They literally have no way to bridge the gap between a business liability and business profitability. These kids need time to LEARN... but not at the expense of my business!
Quote from: Solar on July 30, 2016, 04:54:25 PM
Irrelevant, if it wasn't right wing, then it would be left wing, there is no such thing as neutral anymore.
Anecdotal at best. If your industry can afford an HR dept, then most likely you're not paying entry level min wage for long.
Pure bull shit! Unbridled capitalism as in free mkt principal grows the economy, in that it will always find middle ground in what is best for employee and employer, it is not an adversarial relationship as the way the left wants it, so they can control the masses.
No, you listen up! You either allow us to run business with as little govt interference, or kiss small business good bye.
I know, I remember when the leftists pushed another min wage on me back in the 80s, I was forced to lay two people off, one part time one full time so as to offset the increase.
Most small business struggle where payroll is concerned, which is why the future of franchise is looking to kiosks and no employees.
Yeah, your so called liberal caring is killing small business, and hurting people.
That man behind the curtain is Soros! Yes, the commie is the one feeding this min wage bull shit. So quit being so damned gullible!
Solar, man, you have to open up more...tell me what you REALLY think! :biggrin:
You are not malleable. I don't know if that is all that good net net. But I remain seeking to learn and find out.
But I don't doubt your statements on your business experience as you said... but I also speak of my reality myself so maybe we are BOTH anecdotal. I have used that argument as well.
Soros is no worse than Koch. Be honest.... Citizens United must GO! How can you support such a view that puts so much power in Corporations and TAKES it AWAY from people??? that befuddles me???
Do you really think I don't know your playbook as well OR BETTER than you know mine??? We have BOTH been around the block Solar and like it or not, we are intertwined as AMERICANS. I know that freaks you out but it is true.
just telling me I am wrong all the time does not change OUR situation or the truth. And it is OUR situation that we both live in today's America. I think this is the BEST time ever in every way and better times are ahead.
you know, the two threads I was on were BOTH some of the highest viewed threads you had on this board in recent days. There does seem to be a curiosity, like liberals able to discuss topics have not been seen around these parts much.
I still enjoy learning from all of you, and I appreciate your patience with me. Even if we will never change it is the exchange of ideas that I seek because we will all think of each other down the road when making future voting decisions.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 30, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Solar, man, you have to open up more...tell me what you REALLY think! :biggrin:
You are not malleable. I don't know if that is all that good net net. But I remain seeking to learn and find out.
But I don't doubt your statements on your business experience as you said... but I also speak of my reality myself so maybe we are BOTH anecdotal. I have used that argument as well.
Soros is no worse than Koch. Be honest.... Citizens United must GO! How can you support such a view that puts so much power in Corporations and TAKES it AWAY from people??? that befuddles me???
Do you really think I don't know your playbook as well OR BETTER than you know mine??? We have BOTH been around the block Solar and like it or not, we are intertwined as AMERICANS. I know that freaks you out but it is true.
just telling me I am wrong all the time does not change OUR situation or the truth. And it is OUR situation that we both live in today's America. I think this is the BEST time ever in every way and better times are ahead.
you know, the two threads I was on were BOTH some of the highest viewed threads you had on this board in recent days. There does seem to be a curiosity, like liberals able to discuss topics have not been seen around these parts much.
I still enjoy learning from all of you, and I appreciate your patience with me. Even if we will never change it is the exchange of ideas that I seek because we will all think of each other down the road when making future voting decisions.
:biggrin:
What I see. You enjoy pushing your BS. IF you were as good as you think you are you would have your own site still going yet.
But that's just my 2¢. (https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.libertynewsforum.com%2Fyabbfiles%2FSmilies%2F2vrolijk_08.gif&hash=916493a5aa57d809174fa7b62b437eb2ba4c5752)
Quote from: walkstall on July 30, 2016, 06:31:39 PM
What I see. You enjoy pushing your BS. IF you were as good as you think you are you would have your own site still going yet.
But that's just my 2¢. (https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.libertynewsforum.com%2Fyabbfiles%2FSmilies%2F2vrolijk_08.gif&hash=916493a5aa57d809174fa7b62b437eb2ba4c5752)
walks I appreciate your opinion.
to me debating and challenging culls poor ideas and promotes better ideas.
even if we don't agree with them at first. anything less is...well...less.
your mileage may vary.
:smile:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 30, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Solar, man, you have to open up more...tell me what you REALLY think! :biggrin:
You are not malleable. I don't know if that is all that good net net. But I remain seeking to learn and find out.
But I don't doubt your statements on your business experience as you said... but I also speak of my reality myself so maybe we are BOTH anecdotal. I have used that argument as well.
My point was, I had a business that hired entry level kids, in many cases their first ever job, but min wage increases stifles that option and only allows me to keep the best employee and only hire experienced people, completely eliminating first time workers.
You see, most small business struggle making payroll, most owners work the business themselves to save money, they do it for the freedom of being their own boss, and believe me, they never higher HR people, they do the hiring themselves.
So mine is reality, yours is anecdotal because any business that requires a staff to hire people, can most definitely afford a min wage increase, because most likely, they already pay entry level positions above the min wage. Don't they....
QuoteSoros is no worse than Koch. Be honest.... Citizens United must GO! How can you support such a view that puts so much power in Corporations and TAKES it AWAY from people??? that befuddles me???
WOW, are you serious? Soros is an admitted communist, one that manipulates markets, destroys small economies for personal gain, the man has no principles.
Koch brothers made their money the honest way.
QuoteDo you really think I don't know your playbook as well OR BETTER than you know mine??? We have BOTH been around the block Solar and like it or not, we are intertwined as AMERICANS. I know that freaks you out but it is true.
just telling me I am wrong all the time does not change OUR situation or the truth. And it is OUR situation that we both live in today's America. I think this is the BEST time ever in every way and better times are ahead.
Difference being, I produce indisputable facts, yours on the other hand are mostly opinion based.
Quoteyou know, the two threads I was on were BOTH some of the highest viewed threads you had on this board in recent days. There does seem to be a curiosity, like liberals able to discuss topics have not been seen around these parts much.
I still enjoy learning from all of you, and I appreciate your patience with me. Even if we will never change it is the exchange of ideas that I seek because we will all think of each other down the road when making future voting decisions.
:biggrin:
Yet you remain close minded in the face of facts. Is this a lib trait?
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 30, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Solar, man, you have to open up more...tell me what you REALLY think! :biggrin:
You are not malleable. I don't know if that is all that good net net. But I remain seeking to learn and find out.
But I don't doubt your statements on your business experience as you said... but I also speak of my reality myself so maybe we are BOTH anecdotal. I have used that argument as well.
Soros is no worse than Koch. Be honest.... Citizens United must GO! How can you support such a view that puts so much power in Corporations and TAKES it AWAY from people??? that befuddles me???
Do you really think I don't know your playbook as well OR BETTER than you know mine??? We have BOTH been around the block Solar and like it or not, we are intertwined as AMERICANS. I know that freaks you out but it is true.
just telling me I am wrong all the time does not change OUR situation or the truth. And it is OUR situation that we both live in today's America. I think this is the BEST time ever in every way and better times are ahead.
you know, the two threads I was on were BOTH some of the highest viewed threads you had on this board in recent days. There does seem to be a curiosity, like liberals able to discuss topics have not been seen around these parts much.
I still enjoy learning from all of you, and I appreciate your patience with me. Even if we will never change it is the exchange of ideas that I seek because we will all think of each other down the road when making future voting decisions.
:biggrin:
Oh, and about those evil Koch's?
Charles G. Koch, the billionaire industrialist, suggested in an interview Sunday that he was open to supporting Hillary Clinton for president and said it was possible she would make a better president than her Republican rivals.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/24/charles-koch-says-he-could-possibly-support-hillary-clinton/
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 30, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
Hot Air is a conservative American political blog. It is written by the pseudonymous Allahpundit, Ed Morrissey, Mary Katharine Ham, Erika Johnsen, and Jazz Shaw on the weekends.
-Wikipedia.
I'm sure you have a point, but if you didn't care to make it, then it wasn't that important in the first place.
Quote
not counting that the source is less than ...I don't even know what to say its like asking your drunk uncle Ned what he thinks about minimum wage....ok....
Drunks and uncles can be business owners.
Quote
I know several HR people in Seattle area and their businesses have had about zero impact with this.
Did you read the study, or are you pretending that hotair did the study? You may have missed it, since the link to the study was in the article. Also, HR people don't really know anything about business, overall.
Quote
Now, I don't know if $15 is the number it seems random but I do know if we look back to 1968 and adjust for inflation the number we get today is about $11.00 which is where my state also is headed this year and even though the CPI is made up at least I can appreciate the effort to tie this to some logical number because $7.25 is stupid for the United States of America.
One of the businesses I owned provided labor analysis for industrial manufacturing companies as part of our service. We broke down the labor costs, CPU of the products, etc. Minimum wage is a job and productivity killer is an established fact to anyone who actually has spent any amount of real world time looking at it. For example, one thing economic illiterates don't seem to grasp is when the cost of the labor goes up, so does the cost of the product. That product becomes more expensive to everybody. It's a very simple, basic concept that anyone who has at least run a lemonade stand can understand, yet liberals don't seem to understand it.
When doing cost analysis and getting into the meat of the businesses, HR people weren't really in on the meetings. They were busy chasing people down to make sure they partook in their liberal-mandated sexual harassment classes or some other BS that has nothing to do with business.
Minimum wage hurts everyone, not just businesses. Fact.
Quote
lets look at the economics.
Finally...
Quote
When someone making minimum wage gets a wage what happens?
Do you mean before or after the raise? If I talk about Bob before the raise, there's a chance Bob won't be around after the raise. So, I assume you mean after the raise.
Quote
THEY SPEND IT!!!
Funny. This is what we try and tell Keynesians. We say people spend their own money, and that benefits businesses who provide products and services. My question to you is how could they spend it without government? Are you saying the just go to a store and buy stuff?
Quote
Almost all people living on their own making minimum wage SPEND ALL THEIR MONEY just to live!
They should make more money.
Quote
And that money goes DIRECTLY into the economy consuming something...products, services, something...and it creates demand which creates JOBS.
Whoa..... hold up Milton Friedman..... It sounds like you believe in capitalism! See how easy that is?
Quote
raising the minimum wage in a MODERATE manner will GROW our economy for all of us.
It destroys the economy. It forces business to lay people off, prevent opportunities for unskilled entry level workers, and forces price increases.
Quote
FAct is you guys have a choice to make, either belly up to the bar and start to discuss these things and find some common ground (with US) or keep hitting yourselves in the head getting angrier and angrier... because the nation is moving ahead with or without you...and we are not going back to 1850 or even 1950.
Don't confuse the GOP hosing us conservatives as somehow a validation of false economics. Unfortunately for Marxists and liberals, economics is its own reality. Capitialism works the same way now between two parties as it did when caveman A was trying to sell caveman B a rock.
Quote
so you have a long future of political defeats if your strategy is to cling to immovability on anything and everything.
We're ready for Hillary. We have mid-terms, and she'll be up in 4 years. We survived 8 years of Hussein, we can do another 4 of Hillary while rebuilding.
Quote
The world is different than the man behind the curtain is telling you. And together we can accomplish great things. But alone, you will be complaining about everything for a long time to come. Unless this is what you want. In that case, forget everything I just said because it wont matter anyway.
The problem is you're not speaking from a point of education or experience. You're parroting what other do-nothing academics tell you. Those of us from the business world know better.
Quote
I'm just saying.
Enjoy the weekend its a great time to be an American!!!
Then stop trying to turn us into the Soviet Union.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 30, 2016, 04:35:35 PM
raising the minimum wage in a MODERATE manner will GROW our economy for all of us.
Based on this quote, it's obvious you recognize the damaging effects of hiking wages, or you'd literally double the hike, or even quadruple it.
If I came to you and told you I was cutting your salary by 10%, how would it affect you?
That's what the business owner experiences, especially the mom and pop stores living from month to month, only keeping the endeavor alive because of a personal responsibility to their family of employees.
Yes, these people are family to the shop owner because they work side by side with these people everyday of their life, there is no adversarial relationship, as the left tries to portray, if there was, they'd simply replace the employee with one they can get along with.
Point is, you're not seeing the true picture, big business and corporations will simply pass along the cost of increased wages to the consumer, in turn raising the cost of living for everyone, while the small business owner either closes their doors or lays people off.
"GROW our economy for all of us"?....you're too funny...
No one is holding a gun to people's heads to work at low paying jobs, they were never meant to be a permanent position, they are entry level, just above intern level of no pay, where it opens doors, trains people to enter the job mkt.
The lower the wage, the better for people less desirable to employers, these people are given a chance to prove themselves, get raises, build their self esteem, but you libs, notoriously want to remove the human nature aspect from the job mkt, where one takes pride in getting a raise, no, you'd rather punish the person supplying the job.
So much for carrot, stick, instead, govt does it through force, backed by the gun.
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 11:11:36 AM
Yes, these people are family to the shop owner because they work side by side with these people everyday of their life, there is no adversarial relationship, as the left tries to portray, if there was, they'd simply replace the employee with one they can get along with.
Yes they are family to the mom and pops. Also you must remember all the people that the mom and pop stores carry on the books for weeks and months at a time at no charge. I remember one mom and pops store down the street from us. A very well to do man would come in about every three months and give him money to use for people that he knew could not begin to pay all there bill each month. So when the people came in and ask how much do I own you? He would tell them much less than what they owed.
The man that did this was know a one of the cheapest SOB in town. :lol: He did not wish for people to know what he was doing. As he was making sure the people that need it got it. But then that was over 70+ years back.
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 11:11:36 AM
Based on this quote, it's obvious you recognize the damaging effects of hiking wages, or you'd literally double the hike, or even quadruple it.
I forgot about this one:
http://conservativehardliner.com/why-republican-favor-minimum-wage
QuoteLike any liberal position, it is easily destroyed with reality and common sense. Ask a liberal why the minimum wage shouldn't be $100. Their response is always an agreement as to why a minimum wage is destructive in the first place. Their feelings makes them think $15 per hour is better than $100 per hour, just because it feels like it is more feasible. Since the logic faculties of these kids and academics are so damaged, they don't understand how any increase in labor costs increases the costs of products and services and throws supply and demand and the free market out of whack. Their Marxist programming always defaults to a retort about how the business owner should absorb the cost with no regard to the business owner's labor or risk.
Quote from: walkstall on July 31, 2016, 11:35:09 AM
Yes they are family to the mom and pops. Also you must remember all the people that the mom and pop stores carry on the books for weeks and months at a time at no charge. I remember one mom and pops store down the street from us. A very well to do man would come in about every three months and give him money to use for people that he knew could not begin to pay all there bill each month. So when the people came in and ask how much do I own you? He would tell them much less than what they owed.
The man that did this was know a one of the cheapest SOB in town. :lol: He did not wish for people to know what he was doing. As he was making sure the people that need it got it. But then that was over 70+ years back.
They still walk among us today... sometimes preferred to be called a tightwad, or maligned than exposed.
Privacy and the sweetness of a clear conscience, knowing you did a good thing, without strings or favor - brings an exceeding joy & peace to your heart. Oddly enough, they're also called "Conservatives", "Christians", and "True Americans".
The other kind, who toot-their-horn and account for every penny given, have their reward, everyone knows who-they-are, they are literally "buying respect", "buying praise" - usually with someone else's money. Strange as it may sound, they are called "Liberals", "Thieves" and "Communists" - they always want play "Santa" with someone else's stuff. They still slink among us, like the snakes they are.
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 12:17:35 PM
I forgot about this one:
http://conservativehardliner.com/why-republican-favor-minimum-wage
I think they actually believe business simply absorbs the cost, as if every small business owner is some rich, greedy SOB that sees employees as slaves he can rip off.
Ya know, libs are always claiming it's us, who never compromise, but if that's the case, why in the Hell is it always the left demanding destructive change?
I have a compromising proposal, but it is they who never offer compromise, rather that we accept their demands.
My proposal is a super low entry level of pay, of say 6 bucks an hr for six months as needed for training, if after 3 months the employee is still with the company, they be guaranteed full time pay at the 6 month mark with full employment.
The employee continues their training, with incentive, and the employer isn't being forced to lay off other employees while gambling on a rookie that may never workout.
Sure, there will be rules to accompany such laws guaranteeing firms don't abuse employees and illegally fire them before probation is up, but something like this needs to be incorporated if the left keeps abusing employers.
We need incentive to hire people, over the threat of a gun, or we'll simply close up shop, but then, sadly, that's the long term plan of leftist elites, eliminate private employment.
Granted, this is not the rule, rather a guideline for the absolute minimum, the employer is always given the option to pay more to incentivise the new hire, even a shorter training period, kind of the way it used to be, where people wrote their own agreement with the employer, because some were worth more than others, and some not, due to limited abilities.
But all could be gainfully employed without govt interference.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 31, 2016, 01:02:06 PM
They still walk among us today... sometimes preferred to be called a tightwad, or maligned than exposed.
Privacy and the sweetness of a clear conscience, knowing you did a good thing, without strings or favor - brings an exceeding joy & peace to your heart. Oddly enough, they're also called "Conservatives", "Christians", and "True Americans".
The other kind, who toot-their-horn and account for every penny given, have their reward, everyone knows who-they-are, they are literally "buying respect", "buying praise" - usually with someone else's money. Strange as it may sound, they are called "Liberals", "Thieves" and "Communists" - they always want play "Santa" with someone else's stuff. They still slink among us, like the snakes they are.
Exactly! Doing the Right thing when no one is looking is a solid Conservative trait.
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 01:17:29 PM
I think they actually believe business simply absorbs the cost, as if every small business owner is some rich, greedy SOB that sees employees as slaves he can rip off.
Ya know, libs are always claiming it's us, who never compromise, but if that's the case, why in the Hell is it always the left demanding destructive change?
I have a compromising proposal, but it is they who never offer compromise, rather that we accept their demands.
My proposal is a super low entry level of pay, of say 6 bucks an hr for six months as needed for training, if after 3 months the employee is still with the company, they be guaranteed full time pay at the 6 month mark with full employment.
The employee continues their training, with incentive, and the employer isn't being forced to lay off other employees while gambling on a rookie that may never workout.
Sure, there will be rules to accompany such laws guaranteeing firms don't abuse employees and illegally fire them before probation is up, but something like this needs to be incorporated if the left keeps abusing employers.
We need incentive to hire people, over the threat of a gun, or we'll simply close up shop, but then, sadly, that's the long term plan of leftist elites, eliminate private employment.
Granted, this is not the rule, rather a guideline for the absolute minimum, the employer is always given the option to pay more to incentivise the new hire, even a shorter training period, kind of the way it used to be, where people wrote their own agreement with the employer, because some were worth more than others, and some not, due to limited abilities.
But all could be gainfully employed without govt interference.
You've just described the "Internship" my son just completed at a local bank's IT department.
He proved his worth at a low wage rate, now he has a full time job, with benefits -and- they are paying for the rest of his college education. Still not a livable wage, but with a degree and a couple of years of experience in hand, they know he's worth paying well to keep long term.
They told me he replaces 2-3 other Interns in speed and efficiency. He's thankful they took a chance giving him an Internship. When I introduced him to the bank, I suggested they pay him NOTHING, just give him the experience, let him learn & prove himself. ...they did say I was old-fashioned, but had to pay him something.
I fear this Trump plan of "equal-pay-for-equal-work" stuff will destroy incentive to excel at all levels of work.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 31, 2016, 01:49:51 PM
You've just described the "Internship" my son just completed at a local bank's IT department.
He proved his worth at a low wage rate, now he has a full time job, with benefits -and- they are paying for the rest of his college education. Still not a livable wage, but with a degree and a couple of years of experience in hand, they know he's worth paying well to keep long term.
They told me he replaces 2-3 other Interns in speed and efficiency. He's thankful they took a chance giving him an Internship. When I introduced him to the bank, I suggested they pay him NOTHING, just give him the experience, let him learn & prove himself. ...they did say I was old-fashioned, but had to pay him something.
I fear this Trump plan of "equal-pay-for-equal-work" stuff will destroy incentive to excel at all levels of work.
Yep, had this plan been in place when I was an employer, I'd have doubled my workforce, seriously, as would nearly every small business owner.
Could you just imagine walking into a small business and finding employees wandering the aisles looking to help someone?
As well as a theft deterrent, in turn, lowering the price of products due to less "shrinkage".
Just being able to get help is a time saver (think Home Despot), across the board, more productivity, more people employed, less theft, more free time in the day.
Sure, some of it is minimal, but employing people would be a huge boon to the economy, as opposed to forced raises to the least deserving in the workforce.
How can one reason against any of that?
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 02:00:39 PM
Yep, had this plan been in place when I was an employer, I'd have doubled my workforce, seriously, as would nearly every small business owner.
Could you just imagine walking into a small business and finding employees wandering the aisles looking to help someone?
As well as a theft deterrent, in turn, lowering the price of products due to less "shrinkage".
Just being able to get help is a time saver (think Home Despot), across the board, more productivity, more people employed, less theft, more free time in the day.
Sure, some of it is minimal, but employing people would be a huge boon to the economy, as opposed to forced raises to the least deserving in the workforce.
How can one reason against any of that?
Indentured servitude is why we find ourselves in this predicament to begin with.
doubling down on it will not change the direction.
Finding worker's at all levels as is part of my charge, today with an unemployment rate of 4.5% in my state does not support such a theory.
Further, even IF we had to increase our minimum wage to $15 which I do not support right off the bat except in regional areas like New York City where it may be warranted, it would impact about 1% to a company's bottom line.
The math simply does not support the argument aganst this. Arguing against an EQUITABLE minimum wage is a fabrication. Economically paying the lowest earners makes economic sense because they will SPEND it directly into the economy while the higher earners will SAVE it offering NO impact to the economy.
why would we something so a$$ backwards???
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 31, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
Indentured servitude is why we find ourselves in this predicament to begin with.
doubling down on it will not change the direction.
Finding worker's at all levels as is part of my charge, today with an unemployment rate of 4.5% in my state does not support such a theory.
Further, even IF we had to increase our minimum wage to $15 which I do not support right off the bat except in regional areas like New York City where it may be warranted, it would impact about 1% to a company's bottom line.
The math simply does not support the argument aganst this. Arguing against an EQUITABLE minimum wage is a fabrication. Economically paying the lowest earners makes economic sense because they will SPEND it directly into the economy while the higher earners will SAVE it offering NO impact to the economy.
why would we something so a$$ backwards???
No, no ,no, you don't get off that easy! Start with my first response and work forward.
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 04:10:50 PM
No, no ,no, you don't get off that easy! Start with my first response and work forward.
Your first response? You mean your $6/hour idea for an introductory period etc.?
I can see some good things in your proposal barring the undoable low pay rate.
The way I see this is if you and I were put in a room and charged with coming up with a solution to find 100 new unskilled employees for a new factory in <some location> I know I could work with your ideas. (though they would require significant modifications)
But you don't seem willing at all to work with mine. And that is a deal breaker. Your inflexible stance makes any solution impossible.
That is disappointing. Because I am certain the solution to our government problems of debt, size and even encroachment on individual freedom is NOT that complicated but if we cannot work together we will continue to be at war, philosophically.
If we work together there is no doubt we can easily solve the fiscal problems of this country.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 31, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
Indentured servitude is why we find ourselves in this predicament to begin with.
doubling down on it will not change the direction.
Finding worker's at all levels as is part of my charge, today with an unemployment rate of 4.5% in my state does not support such a theory.
Further, even IF we had to increase our minimum wage to $15 which I do not support right off the bat except in regional areas like New York City where it may be warranted, it would impact about 1% to a company's bottom line.
The math simply does not support the argument aganst this. Arguing against an EQUITABLE minimum wage is a fabrication. Economically paying the lowest earners makes economic sense because they will SPEND it directly into the economy while the higher earners will SAVE it offering NO impact to the economy.
why would we something so a$$ backwards???
Are you saying saving money is bad for the economy?
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 05:38:05 PM
Are you saying saving money is bad for the economy?
taxed you have offered some attempt at dialogue and debate even though you have refused to acknowledge ANYTHING I have said has had ANY value.
like now.
no taxed that is not what I said. Again if you are being intentionally obtuse ok LOLhahaha.
but if your question is legitimate ...I honestly cant belive you don't know this.
and I am reluctant to insult your intelligence.
I really would appreciate it if you would stop insulting mine.
Thank you.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 31, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Your first response? You mean your $6/hour idea for an introductory period etc.?
I can see some good things in your proposal barring the undoable low pay rate.
The way I see this is if you and I were put in a room and charged with coming up with a solution to find 100 new unskilled employees for a new factory in <some location> I know I could work with your ideas. (though they would require significant modifications)
But you don't seem willing at all to work with mine. And that is a deal breaker. Your inflexible stance makes any solution impossible.
That is disappointing. Because I am certain the solution to our government problems of debt, size and even encroachment on individual freedom is NOT that complicated but if we cannot work together we will continue to be at war, philosophically.
If we work together there is no doubt we can easily solve the fiscal problems of this country.
Nope, back up.
Reply #13 But I will get to this larter.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 31, 2016, 04:01:59 PM
while the higher earners will SAVE it offering NO impact to the economy.
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 05:38:05 PM
Are you saying saving money is bad for the economy?
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 31, 2016, 05:56:28 PM
no taxed that is not what I said. Again if you are being intentionally obtuse ok LOLhahaha.
Looks like you're getting yourself into a pickle.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 06:03:31 PM
Looks like you're getting yourself into a pickle.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is what happens when "Feelings" collide with reality.
There is only one way for an economy to function in full, but if you want to micromanage it, then this is what you get, pure nonsense.
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 06:06:59 PM
This is what happens when "Feelings" collide with reality.
There is only one way for an economy to function in full, but if you want to micromanage it, then this is what you get, pure nonsense.
What are the odds he will be able to articulate HOW saving money is bad for the economy? Last time I checked, people need capital to start businesses.
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 06:09:00 PM
What are the odds he will be able to articulate HOW saving money is bad for the economy? Last time I checked, people need capital to start businesses.
Noooo, lib Econ 101 dictates irreparable debt drives the economy, just ask the Marxist.
If they can print money, spend like drunken sailors in a whore house, and the country is still standing, that's all the proof they need that saving is foolish, just run up your credit cards, use one to pay the other down.
God this nation is in serious trouble, if this is what passes for economic logic. :glare:
Quote from: Solar on July 31, 2016, 07:40:06 PM
Noooo, lib Econ 101 dictates irreparable debt drives the economy, just ask the Marxist.
If they can print money, spend like drunken sailors in a whore house, and the country is still standing, that's all the proof they need that saving is foolish, just run up your credit cards, use one to pay the other down.
God this nation is in serious trouble, if this is what passes for economic logic. :glare:
I'm trying to figure out if he knows this but is somehow obligated to keep parroting this idiocy, or if he really truly doesn't know this. Right now he's trying to play the "I'm just trying to have a conversation and you're being mean conservatives who are in the minority of the country" BS. He says saving money is bad, then I ask him if he said it, then he says he didn't say it.
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 07:45:21 PM
I'm trying to figure out if he knows this but is somehow obligated to keep parroting this idiocy, or if he really truly doesn't know this. Right now he's trying to play the "I'm just trying to have a conversation and you're being mean conservatives who are in the minority of the country" BS. He says saving money is bad, then I ask him if he said it, then he says he didn't say it.
:lol:
As Jeff Foxworthy would say, "Bless his heart".
Honestly, I believe he means well, problem is, like you said, he's parroting, he's never really thought this through to it's logical conclusion, because if he had, he would have simply agreed and moved on.
It's why Keynes was a blithering idiot that was the laughing stock of the financial world, but when GW started spending like a jilted, depressed menopausal woman with her husband's credit cards, the GOP embraced Keynesian lib logic and now help the Marxist rob the treasury.
Quote from: taxed on July 31, 2016, 06:03:31 PM
Looks like you're getting yourself into a pickle.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
hardly.
My statements remain perfectly consistent but I have chosen to ignore your circular reasoning it bores me.
I enjoy talking with you, I find you do try to debate but you misrepresent my words to such extent you either don't understand what I am saying or are being obtuse either way its just boring.
Saving is fine and noble but too much of it by a broad mass will stagnate the economy we need spending this is why the Bush tax cuts FAILED people saved the checks they didn't spend them.
I don't mean to offend because I do find you one of the more interesting people here where I come from what you did was toss up a big white flag.
I forgive you.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 01, 2016, 03:41:40 PM
hardly.
My statements remain perfectly consistent but I have chosen to ignore your circular reasoning it bores me.
I enjoy talking with you, I find you do try to debate but you misrepresent my words to such extent you either don't understand what I am saying or are being obtuse either way its just boring.
Saving is fine and noble but too much of it by a broad mass will stagnate the economy we need spending this is why the Bush tax cuts FAILED people saved the checks they didn't spend them.
I don't mean to offend because I do find you one of the more interesting people here where I come from what you did was toss up a big white flag.
I forgive you.
:biggrin:
I'll bet you never considered what happens when a large portion of the masses save.
Think about it, lending institutions are flush with cash/currency, they can invest it and make it grow, instead of simply paying out interest.
So what do you suppose happens with this capital? People borrow it, which grows the economy, rates for borrowing decreases, making cash cheaper to borrow, so they do, they borrow more, spend more, invest in business ventures, take morer risks in hopes of better returns.
In other words, saving money spurs growth in the economy.
Seriously, take an econ class, because the crap you parrot makes you sound like an MSNBC news reader. No, that is by no means a compliment.
Quote from: Solar on August 01, 2016, 03:54:25 PM
I'll bet you never considered what happens when a large portion of the masses save.
Think about it, lending institutions are flush with cash/currency, they can invest it and make it grow, instead of simply paying out interest.
So what do you suppose happens with this capital? People borrow it, which grows the economy, rates for borrowing decreases, making cash cheaper to borrow, so they do, they borrow more, spend more, invest in business ventures, take morer risks in hopes of better returns.
In other words, saving money spurs growth in the economy.
Seriously, take an econ class, because the crap you parrot makes you sound like an MSNBC news reader. No, that is by no means a compliment.
well, my degree is in accounting and my minor was economics I know it was a while ago but the math is still the same I would imagine.
I will say Solar your view is interesting I have never had anyone explain it that way, and I really do find it interesting. It is a different view and I am fascinated with it and I am thinking about what you said.
Now my world goes like this:
1. when banks are not lending but flush with cash they are losing money and no one makes money at 2% which is what it is when everyone is flush.
2. when people don't spend they don't generate consumption people get laid off companies don't grow.
3. when companies don't grow they are afraid to borrow.
4. the cycle repeats people save MORE beause they are afraid and it gets worse.
5. not to mention the INLFATION would be like Germany in 1920's taking wheel barrows of money to the store.
this is why CREDIT was created and why our world depends so much on it without credit we would have WAY less growth CREDIT gives us LEVERAGE which is necessary to increase the return of each dollar invested.
using your example the economy would be so bad even people who saved would be forced to use those savings since the jobs would be so bad banks would require 100% collateral.
it would be a disaster.
No, Solar, saving is good but it has to be balanced with an appropriate amount of spending either real mmoney or credit because spending is what moves the economy which is why Keynesian Economics worked during WWII.
But I did find your theory interesting, In a parallel universe kind of way.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 01, 2016, 04:05:44 PM
well, my degree is in accounting and my minor was economics I know it was a while ago but the math is still the same I would imagine.
I will say Solar your view is interesting I have never had anyone explain it that way, and I really do find it interesting. It is a different view and I am fascinated with it and I am thinking about what you said.
Now my world goes like this:
1. when banks are not lending but flush with cash they are losing money and no one makes money at 2% which is what it is when everyone is flush.
2. when people don't spend they don't generate consumption people get laid off companies don't grow.
3. when companies don't grow they are afraid to borrow.
4. the cycle repeats people save MORE beause they are afraid and it gets worse.
5. not to mention the INLFATION would be like Germany in 1920's taking wheel barrows of money to the store.
this is why CREDIT was created and why our world depends so much on it without credit we would have WAY less growth CREDIT gives us LEVERAGE which is necessary to increase the return of each dollar invested.
using your example the economy would be so bad even people who saved would be forced to use those savings since the jobs would be so bad banks would require 100% collateral.
it would be a disaster.
No, Solar, saving is good but it has to be balanced with an appropriate amount of spending either real mmoney or credit because spending is what moves the economy which is why Keynesian Economics worked during WWII.
But I did find your theory interesting, In a parallel universe kind of way.
:biggrin:
Damn, how many Dale Carnegie classes did you take. :lol:
Quote from: walkstall on August 01, 2016, 04:16:12 PM
Damn, how many Dale Carnegie classes did you take. :lol:
that was well played walks.
touche'
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 01, 2016, 04:05:44 PM
well, my degree is in accounting and my minor was economics I know it was a while ago but the math is still the same I would imagine.
I will say Solar your view is interesting I have never had anyone explain it that way, and I really do find it interesting. It is a different view and I am fascinated with it and I am thinking about what you said.
Now my world goes like this:
1. when banks are not lending but flush with cash they are losing money and no one makes money at 2% which is what it is when everyone is flush.
2. when people don't spend they don't generate consumption people get laid off companies don't grow.
3. when companies don't grow they are afraid to borrow.
4. the cycle repeats people save MORE beause they are afraid and it gets worse.
5. not to mention the INLFATION would be like Germany in 1920's taking wheel barrows of money to the store.
this is why CREDIT was created and why our world depends so much on it without credit we would have WAY less growth CREDIT gives us LEVERAGE which is necessary to increase the return of each dollar invested.
using your example the economy would be so bad even people who saved would be forced to use those savings since the jobs would be so bad banks would require 100% collateral.
it would be a disaster.
Wrong! I never said 100% of the population, I stated a large portion of the country. When banks are flush with cash, they are eager to loan it, so they sell it at lowered rates, this alone spurs the economy.
If I am flush with a product as a business owner, wouldn't behoove me to move it at reduced prices?
Sadly, we no longer live in a Friedman economy, we're living in a Keynes controlled economy, one that by no means can exist for much longer. When the world decides the dollar is a risk, we'll collapse as the financial leader in the world and within a month collapse in the worst depression the world has ever witnessed.
QuoteNo, Solar, saving is good but it has to be balanced with an appropriate amount of spending either real mmoney or credit because spending is what moves the economy which is why Keynesian Economics worked during WWII.
But I did find your theory interesting, In a parallel universe kind of way.
:biggrin:
But it's a temporary economic condition, and to prove it, just look at the more than 100 trillion in actual debt we face.
The Keynes effect is printing money to pay down the debt, in other words, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
At some point it will all come due, and no, it's not just the Dims that are to blame, both leftist party's are guilty.
There is but one way to rectify this problem, and that's to start living within our means.
Sure, credit is great, but if it's backed by unfunded debt, the economy is playing with Monopoly money.
I see why you're totally oblivious to how a real economy functions, you took a leftist econ course.
Now take a real econ class and compare notes.
Quote from: Solar on August 01, 2016, 04:29:56 PM
But it's a temporary economic condition, and to prove it, just look at the more than 100 trillion in actual debt we face.
The Keynes effect is printing money to pay down the debt, in other words, robbing Peter to pay Paul.
At some point it will all come due, and no, it's not just the Dims that are to blame, both leftist party's are guilty.
There is but one way to rectify this problem, and that's to start living within our means.
Sure, credit is great, but if it's backed by unfunded debt, the economy is playing with Monopoly money.
I see why you're totally oblivious to how a real economy functions, you took a leftist econ course.
Now take a real econ class and compare notes.
The dollar was last year among the strongest it has been in a long time to the point companies like GM were having problems overseas because the strong dollar was making their cars so expensive.
But I agree with your point we need a "moderately strong dollar? maybe a "stable" dollar.
I also agree with putting in real but not suicidal financial contraints the problem is two fold:
1. the nation is so dependent on big government with some 4 MILLION employees drastic cuts would send us into another recession its like heroin we have to wean off SLOWLY (I don't know anything about heroin I'm just making an analogy).
2. right now and for the foreseeable future our nations debt is simply not a problem. Its not. Gvt makes the payments easily and CONGRESS has ZERO incentive to make cuts because that will make their constituents mad and vote them out.
so we do need to address that.
Obviously, I went to a state school from a socialist state to be indoctrinated in Marxist Ideology..."From everyone according to their ability to each according to their need."
ah yes, we used to pledge to the flag every day. All we do in Massachusetts is churn out good socialists. I guess the jig is up.
by the way, I don't think my view is backwards and the reason I know this is because you felt compelled to come around ever so slightly. I have learned it pains you to do two things. one is to agree with anyone with a different view EVEN if you find some common ground! Which we just had an you don't know how to handle it.
And two, I'm not sure if you have ever laughed except when discharging a full clip from a big gun.
I cant help you with #2 but believe it or not we are closer in thought than you might care to believe.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 01, 2016, 03:41:40 PM
My statements remain perfectly consistent
Do savings hurt the economy? Yes or no? Help make it clear for me.
Quote
but I have chosen to ignore your circular reasoning it bores me.
Nice try, but you know you made a boo boo. Don't feel bad -- you're not the first.
Quote
I enjoy talking with you,
You are a sweet heart...
Quote
I find you do try to debate but you misrepresent my words to such extent you either don't understand what I am saying or are being obtuse either way its just boring.
You seemed pretty clear with your point. Maybe you can help clarify?
Quote
Saving is fine and noble
OK...
Quote
but
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I knew that was coming....
Quote
too much of it by a broad mass will stagnate the economy
Why?
Quote
we need spending
People don't spend while they save?
Quote
this is why the Bush tax cuts FAILED people saved the checks they didn't spend them.
I started my first business because I had a lot saved up. That was under Bush. My company employed engineers, customer support reps, etc. After I sold out of that company, I started another, where I employed even more people. I also used my savings to get into the real estate investment game where I employed contractors, etc. Now I have a small tech company that employs a handful of engineers.
How did I hurt the economy by saving my money so I could start my businesses and employ people again? I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it would have been better for me to blow all my cash and be broke.
Quote
I don't mean to offend because I do find you one of the more interesting people here where I come from what you did was toss up a big white flag.
I guess my real world experience and common sense understanding is conflicting with your academic theory of how business and the economy works. No offense taken.
Quote
I forgive you.
Thank you.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 01, 2016, 04:48:58 PM
The dollar was last year among the strongest it has been in a long time to the point companies like GM were having problems overseas because the strong dollar was making their cars so expensive.
"Strong" is relative, considering the world is linked to our dead economy like a dead mule behind the wagon, and if we sneeze, the world suffers pneumonia, so to claim it's strong is actuality farting rainbows and calling it a cure for stupidity.
QuoteBut I agree with your point we need a "moderately strong dollar? maybe a "stable" dollar.
I also agree with putting in real but not suicidal financial contraints the problem is two fold:
1. the nation is so dependent on big government with some 4 MILLION employees drastic cuts would send us into another recession its like heroin we have to wean off SLOWLY (I don't know anything about heroin I'm just making an analogy).
2. right now and for the foreseeable future our nations debt is simply not a problem. Its not. Gvt makes the payments easily and CONGRESS has ZERO incentive to make cuts because that will make their constituents mad and vote them out.
so we do need to address that.
Absolutely! Our nation was never designed to function where there are more govt jobs than that of private sector, especially where ludicrously high wages outpace those of the private sector.
Govt jobs are a leach on the economy, they produce absolutely nothing. Friedman was right: "I am in favor of cutting taxes under any circumstances and for any excuse, for any reason, whenever it's possible.".
QuoteObviously, I went to a state school from a socialist state to be indoctrinated in Marxist Ideology..."From everyone according to their ability to each according to their need."
ah yes, we used to pledge to the flag every day. All we do in Massachusetts is churn out good socialists. I guess the jig is up.
Admittance is the first step in recovery. :biggrin:
Quoteby the way, I don't think my view is backwards and the reason I know this is because you felt compelled to come around ever so slightly. I have learned it pains you to do two things. one is to agree with anyone with a different view EVEN if you find some common ground! Which we just had an you don't know how to handle it.
What? By agreeing that the Marxists aren't the sole cause of our ills? No, I'll always throw the lib RINO under the bus every chance I get, and spend a tankful of fuel running their worthless asses over and over again.
QuoteAnd two, I'm not sure if you have ever laughed except when discharging a full clip from a big gun.
Seriously? Your every post gives me the grin an old man gets watching a 7 year old do a face plant. :biggrin:
QuoteI cant help you with #2 but believe it or not we are closer in thought than you might care to believe.
:biggrin:
I don't doubt that, it's how we view the issue that is the problem.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 01, 2016, 04:48:58 PM
The dollar was last year among the strongest it has been in a long time to the point companies like GM were having problems overseas because the strong dollar was making their cars so expensive.
But I agree with your point we need a "moderately strong dollar? maybe a "stable" dollar.
I also agree with putting in real but not suicidal financial contraints the problem is two fold:
1. the nation is so dependent on big government with some 4 MILLION employees drastic cuts would send us into another recession its like heroin we have to wean off SLOWLY (I don't know anything about heroin I'm just making an analogy).
2. right now and for the foreseeable future our nations debt is simply not a problem. Its not. Gvt makes the payments easily and CONGRESS has ZERO incentive to make cuts because that will make their constituents mad and vote them out.
so we do need to address that.
Obviously, I went to a state school from a socialist state to be indoctrinated in Marxist Ideology..."From everyone according to their ability to each according to their need."
ah yes, we used to pledge to the flag every day. All we do in Massachusetts is churn out good socialists. I guess the jig is up.
by the way, I don't think my view is backwards and the reason I know this is because you felt compelled to come around ever so slightly. I have learned it pains you to do two things. one is to agree with anyone with a different view EVEN if you find some common ground! Which we just had an you don't know how to handle it.
And two, I'm not sure if you have ever laughed except when discharging a full clip from a big gun.
I cant help you with #2 but believe it or not we are closer in thought than you might care to believe.
:biggrin:
"1. the nation is so dependent on big government with some 4 MILLION employees drastic cuts would send us into another recession its like heroin we have to wean off SLOWLY (I don't know anything about heroin I'm just making an analogy)."
I will just jump in to comment on one part of your post. Your point is valid. However, the solution is pretty simple as to how to lessen the impact of reducing the federal workforce. There really is no need to lay off anyone. The existing workforce could be reduced by just letting normal attrition take care of it. That is probably around 10% a year. Secondly, like any business which loses money, no new employees are hired until the enterprise is back to "profitability.
Minimum Wage Hike 'the Issue in This Campaign'
BY NICHOLAS BALLASY
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/2016/07/28/hoyer-minimum-wage-hike-the-issue-in-this-campaign/
Will this issue be more important than immigration, national security or the economy? If the lunatic left has it's way, it will.
Trump is gullible enough to take the bait and play the leftist narrative if he thinks he can win on the issue.
GOP'e allow the left to set the narrative every election, completely ignoring the demands of the base. One might begin to think Marxists run every election.
Oh wait, they do...
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2016, 05:58:25 AM
Trump is gullible enough to take the bait and play the leftist narrative if he thinks he can win on the issue.
GOP'e allow the left to set the narrative every election, completely ignoring the demands of the base. One might begin to think Marxists run every election.
Oh wait, they do...
That's because the issue appeals to the LIV base emotion! Never mind that it might cost them their job.
Quote from: tac on August 02, 2016, 06:02:07 AM
That's because the issue appeals to the LIV base emotion! Never mind that it might cost them their job.
WILL cost some of them their jobs.
Quote from: tac on August 02, 2016, 06:02:07 AM
That's because the issue appeals to the LIV base emotion! Never mind that it might cost them their job.
That's the point, he's stupid enough to think that courting the lib vote might gain him an advantage.
When in fact the left is setting him up for an even bigger failure than he'd have if he'd moved back to the right.
Trump has to be one of the dumbest MF'er to make it this far in a Presidential election, ever.
Carter is breathing a sigh of relief.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 02, 2016, 04:28:31 AM
"1. the nation is so dependent on big government with some 4 MILLION employees drastic cuts would send us into another recession its like heroin we have to wean off SLOWLY (I don't know anything about heroin I'm just making an analogy)."
I will just jump in to comment on one part of your post. Your point is valid. However, the solution is pretty simple as to how to lessen the impact of reducing the federal workforce. There really is no need to lay off anyone. The existing workforce could be reduced by just letting normal attrition take care of it. That is probably around 10% a year. Secondly, like any business which loses money, no new employees are hired until the enterprise is back to "profitability.
supersal, well said I don't know why on earth we could not cut 10% from every agency except Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, for 5 years.
That would reduce the size by about 40%. 40% is not insignificant.
We agree!
You are going to have to turn in your card if this happens too often you know.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 03:45:30 PM
supersal, well said I don't know why on earth we could not cut 10% from every agency except Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, for 5 years.
That would reduce the size by about 40%. 40% is not insignificant.
We agree!
You are going to have to turn in your card if this happens too often you know.
:biggrin:
Can you be a dear and quit spreading the false narrative that when you say something that's correct, we can't agree with you? It's just dishonest. You're a raging lib on a conservative forum and yet, here you still are posting and haven't been banned. At some point, maybe you can just quit that BS, or save it for the other forums or whatever?
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 03:45:30 PM
supersal, well said I don't know why on earth we could not cut 10% from every agency except Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, for 5 years.
That would reduce the size by about 40%. 40% is not insignificant.
We agree!
You are going to have to turn in your card if this happens too often you know.
:biggrin:
I hope you realize, this was not just a suggestion or request. "Don't forget Replies #13-#14"
Good luck with that. :lol:
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2016, 05:26:39 PM
I hope you realize, this was not just a suggestion or request. "Don't forget Replies #13-#14"
Solar, what????
my posts there stand not sure what you want if you have a question ask it. otherwise read what I said.
if you want to ban me and throw the white flag do it.
I have worked to find common ground with you to have a friendly back and forth if you think you can bully me you are laughingly mistaken.
:biggrin:
Quote from: taxed on August 02, 2016, 04:25:41 PM
Can you be a dear and quit spreading the false narrative that when you say something that's correct, we can't agree with you? It's just dishonest. You're a raging lib on a conservative forum and yet, here you still are posting and haven't been banned. At some point, maybe you can just quit that BS, or save it for the other forums or whatever?
why do you fear agreement so much?
that is strange to me and it seems to frustrate you to no end.
I have not disrupted this forum I have respected your population I have stayed to a few threads that interest me and apparently interest your population and YOU <gasp> because I have some of the highest views you show.
what is the big deal?? what are you afraid of? that we might agree on something???
I have found the debate educational and interesting I have not made fun of anyone that is not my intent.
so I ask you stop your charade and do what you want throw the white flag. if that is what you want,
it is of course Solar and your own board you can of course run it as you like. however I will not be bullied by anyone making stuff up about me.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 05:55:25 PM
why do you fear agreement so much?
that is strange to me and it seems to frustrate you to no end.
I have not disrupted this forum I have respected your population I have stayed to a few threads that interest me and apparently interest your population and YOU <gasp> because I have some of the highest views you show.
what is the big deal?? what are you afraid of? that we might agree on something???
I have found the debate educational and interesting I have not made fun of anyone that is not my intent.
so I ask you stop your charade and do what you want throw the white flag. if that is what you want,
it is of course Solar and your own board you can of course run it as you like. however I will not be bullied by anyone making stuff up about me.
I showed the courtesy of a response to your post, and I expect the same in kind.
You do not set the rules of the forum, but if you can't debate my points, then just maybe this isn't the forum for you.
You know that little rule about backing up a post? Well get off your ass!
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 05:55:25 PM
why do you fear agreement so much?
that is strange to me and it seems to frustrate you to no end.
I have not disrupted this forum I have respected your population I have stayed to a few threads that interest me and apparently interest your population and YOU <gasp> because I have some of the highest views you show.
what is the big deal?? what are you afraid of? that we might agree on something???
I have found the debate educational and interesting I have not made fun of anyone that is not my intent.
so I ask you stop your charade and do what you want throw the white flag. if that is what you want,
it is of course Solar and your own board you can of course run it as you like. however I will not be bullied by anyone making stuff up about me.
If I'm not mistaken, he was calling attention to your BS in claiming victory, because "YOU" agreed with the Conservative principle of cutting taxes.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around that logic. Oh wait, you're a lib :lol:
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2016, 06:00:40 PM
I showed the courtesy of a response to your post, and I expect the same in kind.
You do not set the rules of the forum, but if you can't debate my points, then just maybe this isn't the forum for you.
You know that little rule about backing up a post? Well get off your ass!
your rule is only enforced on one side. frankly i'm not sure of the question. Soros/Koch? something?
I associate Soros politically the same as Koch. that's my answer.
I have been very honest because facts are vital to everything I do.
but I am no ones monkey. and you know my history here is exactly as I have described it respectful maybe more so than I have received in return, and honest.
so you are the one calling me out now. you. not me. you.
so make the decision. stop the BS and let me post as I have or pull the plug. but stop the charade yourself because you and I know I have done nothing to violate any of the rules here.
I have never had any delusions here. I came here interested in your view. and I have always known its always been up to you who stays or who goes.
but if you want me to jump over something that aint happening and you and I both know this has nothing about the truth because I have been 100% truthful even if we have opposing views.
so do what you want. but don't make up some reason for it.
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2016, 06:04:06 PM
If I'm not mistaken, he was calling attention to your BS in claiming victory, because "YOU" agreed with the Conservative principle of cutting taxes.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around that logic. Oh wait, you're a lib :lol:
claiming victory because we agree???
I was claiming I was happy we finally agreed my gawd man not everything is a zero sum game.
believe it or not you do need us and we need you to survive.
It was a compliment.
I like Supersal. I'd propbably like you too if you weren't such a @##R%^ adss wole.
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 05:55:25 PM
why do you fear agreement so much?
I don't. I'm saying that's you falsely implying that I do. I asked you to please stop it, because it's dishonest.
Quote
that is strange to me and it seems to frustrate you to no end.
Why would I be frustrated at your false implication? I'm asking you to quit parroting a lie. It's more of an etiquette thing.
Quote
I have not disrupted this forum
I never said you did.
Quote
I have respected your population I have stayed to a few threads that interest me and apparently interest your population and YOU <gasp> because I have some of the highest views you show.
We don't get your kind round here too much, so the whole town comes out to look...
Quote
what is the big deal?? what are you afraid of? that we might agree on something???
You really are into this false "scared to agree" thing. If you say something correct, then you will probably be agreed with. Again, save the attempt at railing discourse for the other places you post. It gets boring.
Quote
I have found the debate educational and interesting I have not made fun of anyone that is not my intent.
You are more than welcome to make fun of people. You really need to loosen up your tie and take a drink.
Quote
so I ask you stop your charade and do what you want throw the white flag. if that is what you want,
I......... huh? I just want to talk about minimum wage and expose how you're wrong. I don't even know why we're here right now.
Quote
it is of course Solar and your own board you can of course run it as you like. however I will not be bullied by anyone making stuff up about me.
I'm sorry for arguing a conservative position about minimum wage from my perspective as a conservative business owner who has experience in this topic on a conservative internet forum in a thread about this topic. Can you forgive me?
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 06:14:57 PM
claiming victory because we agree???
I was claiming I was happy we finally agreed my gawd man not everything is a zero sum game.
believe it or not you do need us and we need you to survive.
It was a compliment.
I like Supersal. I'd propbably like you too if you weren't such a @##R%^ adss wole.
OK, so it's not just me??
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 06:10:38 PM
your rule is only enforced on one side.
Oh bull shit!
When you asked a member to backup their claim, I explained, that regardless of the ignorance of the query, it's a standing rule that it be fulfilled, and he complied as per the rules.
But as you can see, you are being called on the rules you claim to be one sided, which they are not.
I could demand that you prove it, but then, I don't want to give you a timeout for lying.
Quotefrankly i'm not sure of the question. Soros/Koch? something?
I associate Soros politically the same as Koch. that's my answer.
And I gave evidence to the contrary, and you still insist on sounding like a fool, so now show proof of your claim, that a communist and a Libertarian are the same.
As shown, Koch is supporting Hillary over Trump.
QuoteI have been very honest because facts are vital to everything I do.
I bet you actually believe that too.
Quotebut I am no ones monkey. and you know my history here is exactly as I have described it respectful maybe more so than I have received in return, and honest.
so you are the one calling me out now. you. not me. you.
When you're wrong on every subject, you're going to be called on every subject, which is why you were called out!
I responded to your BS claims and you ignored them, that is not how this forum works.
There's a reason you, as a liberal, are always wrong, that's because America has always been a Conservative nation, socially and fiscally, and that's the premise this forum works off of.
So the only way you're ever going to be right, is if you study the Constitution, understand the Bill of Rights and their intention and agree in full with their purpose.
Quoteso make the decision. stop the BS and let me post as I have or pull the plug. but stop the charade yourself because you and I know I have done nothing to violate any of the rules here.
Man, you are seriously thick! All I ask is that you respond to crucial points in a post. Is that really all that damned hard?
QuoteI have never had any delusions here. I came here interested in your view. and I have always known its always been up to you who stays or who goes.
You're entitled to your own opinions, you're not entitled to your own facts.
Quotebut if you want me to jump over something that aint happening and you and I both know this has nothing about the truth because I have been 100% truthful even if we have opposing views.
so do what you want. but don't make up some reason for it.
Again, this has nothing to do with your opinions, it has everything to do with facts.
See, in your world, parroting leftist talking points gets you kudos from the LIV, but here, that shit don't fly, we don't take things at face value, which is why, and you may have noticed this, I go into great detail to make my case, unlike you, passing off talking points as fact.
As has been stated, this is a fact based forum, so when you make these erroneous claims, you are going to be called on it, as I have done in the posts you ignored.
That's poor etiquette, and won't be tolerated for long.
Boo, can we get a parrot over here please?
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 06:14:57 PM
claiming victory because we agree???
I was claiming I was happy we finally agreed my gawd man not everything is a zero sum game.
believe it or not you do need us and we need you to survive.
It was a compliment.
I like Supersal. I'd propbably like you too if you weren't such a @##R%^ adss wole.
Did I not say, "If I'm not mistaken"?
The line that confused me, was...
"You are going to have to turn in your card if this happens too often you know."
He was right, and you agreed with him, why is he the one affected, and not you, for agreeing on a Conservative point?
Now do you see the confusion?
I'm really not an ass, I have always separated business from pleasure, and this is a business with rules that I enforce strictly, just ask the members, but then, they'll tell you I'm an asshole, so never mind....
Quote from: taxed on August 02, 2016, 07:40:09 PM
Boo, can we get a parrot over here please?
Boos parrots are kind of expensive...call birds.
You want the ghetto birds with cracker addictions, they'll work for a saltine. :biggrin:
Why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $100?
Quote from: taxed on August 02, 2016, 07:55:58 PM
Why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $100?
Cheap skate! Ten thousand, and we could all retire in a month. :biggrin:
Quote from: taxed on August 02, 2016, 07:55:58 PM
Why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $100?
Dam, I would only have to work one day a week. :woot:
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 02, 2016, 03:45:30 PM
supersal, well said I don't know why on earth we could not cut 10% from every agency except Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, for 5 years.
That would reduce the size by about 40%. 40% is not insignificant.
We agree!
You are going to have to turn in your card if this happens too often you know.
:biggrin:
Just a common sense conservative approach.
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2016, 08:00:22 PM
Cheap skate! Ten thousand, and we could all retire in a month. :biggrin:
Alright. Let's reset.
as far as Koch voting for Hillary the latest is not so.
=========================
""The first thing I want to do is correct the rumor that the media keeps stipulating -- and that is that I'm going to probably support Hillary," Koch said to laughs. "That is a blood libel."
"At this point, I can't support either candidate, but I'm certainly not going to support Hillary," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/charles-koch-hillary-clinton-election-2016/index.html
========================
As far as why don't we raise the wage to $100 the main reason is we don't have to and it would fall under the law of diminishing returns. The reason "some number" 12, 13, 15 whatever number around there works is because business historically will absorb increases to a certain extent it happens every year COGS go up (rarely down) and business adjusts. This would be SG&A instead of COGS, just a different column on the income statement. But the same result business would adjusts.
Now, I have said I don't agree that $15 is the number everywhere, it may make sense in places like New York City, but probably would be onerous in Mississippi where $10 might be more appropriate. but I have to say $7.25 anywhere is just too low based on COLA from 1968 to today. So this would in theory provide increased buying power creating consumption, demand, production and resulting jobs, while these increases would (theoretically although we do see it in periods of economic growth)
Those are my facts and data.
Finally, I am not looking to bump this but I feel these are two relevant clarifications. My time during the day is sporadic which is why its taken me this long, if you want to let this one die I wont respond anymore.
Have a good night.
Quote from: taxed on August 02, 2016, 07:55:58 PM
Why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $100?
Obviously a good question.
As far as why don't we raise the wage to $100 the main reason is we don't have to and it would fall under the law of diminishing returns. The reason "some number" 12, 13, 15 whatever number around there works is because business historically will absorb increases to a certain extent it happens every year COGS go up (rarely down) and business adjusts. This would be SG&A instead of COGS, just a different column on the income statement. But the same result business would adjusts.
Now, I have said I don't agree that $15 is the number everywhere, it may make sense in places like New York City, but probably would be onerous in Mississippi where $10 might be more appropriate. but I have to say $7.25 anywhere is just too low based on COLA from 1968 to today. So this would in theory provide increased buying power creating consumption, demand, production and resulting jobs, while these increases would (theoretically although we do see it in periods of economic growth)
Those are my facts and data.
Have a good night.
Leave the Koch brothers out of any discussion - without the David Koch foundation, NOVA wouldn't exist, and PBS would lose the only other interesting program since "the Undersea World of (what's his face)".
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2016, 05:58:25 AM
Trump is gullible enough to take the bait
The Dims have got to be laughing, this guy is an easy mark. If they said peeing on an electric fence in bare feet & wet grass
enhanced you - he'd probably try that too! He's a born political sucker.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 03, 2016, 06:08:07 PM
The Dims have got to be laughing, this guy is an easy mark. If they said peeing on an electric fence in bare feet & wet grass enhanced you - he'd probably try that too! He's a born political sucker.
We've all known these people, egos bigger than their brain. I had a roommate when I first got out of the army, the guy was a sucker for a dare, anything, just dare him, then say you were kidding, and he'd say, "I ain't no pussy" and plunge headlong like an idiot.
As long as you mixed it with a reward, he would take any dare. "Bobby, see that cop, you have to hug him, then go in the store and moon everyone, then you can kiss the pretty girl on the cheek"
All he knew was there was a reward at the end of the dare, never once considering they were all wrong and that he was being played for a fool by us.
I see Trump as the same emotional moron, where his ego is so thin, that you can lead this fool around by the nose, and the dims have yet to bait this fool.
I just know they already have a solid plan to create his public meltdown, with about a dozen contingency plans to assist.
Wish I'd had early access to this idiot last year as a reporter just to ask leading questions, you know, the type the media purposely avoided under orders till they could clinch the nomination...
It's coming, just wait....
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 03, 2016, 04:51:31 PM
Alright. Let's reset.
as far as Koch voting for Hillary the latest is not so.
=========================
""The first thing I want to do is correct the rumor that the media keeps stipulating -- and that is that I'm going to probably support Hillary," Koch said to laughs. "That is a blood libel."
"At this point, I can't support either candidate, but I'm certainly not going to support Hillary," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/charles-koch-hillary-clinton-election-2016/index.html
========================
Stop creating straw men! I stated quite clearly, he supports Clinton over Trump, I never said vote, that's your created myth.
It's time to learn the quote function.
QuoteFrankly i'm not sure of the question. Soros/Koch? something?
I associate Soros politically the same as Koch. that's my answer.
Here was my response...
QuoteAnd I gave evidence to the contrary, and you still insist on sounding like a fool, so now show proof of your claim, that a communist and a Libertarian are the same.
As shown, Koch is supporting Hillary over Trump.
You still haven't explained how Koch is like the communist.
QuoteAs far as why don't we raise the wage to $100 the main reason is we don't have to and it would fall under the law of diminishing returns. The reason "some number" 12, 13, 15 whatever number around there works is because business historically will absorb increases to a certain extent it happens every year COGS go up (rarely down) and business adjusts. This would be SG&A instead of COGS, just a different column on the income statement. But the same result business would adjusts.
See, there you go parroting again! Anytime govt interferes with a private entity and changes the rules, you are going to have a negative effect across the board.
You can't name one instance where hiking wages has a positive effect on anything because the negatives outweigh any possible positives that may come of it.
And to that nonsense of business absorbing any increase? The sole purpose of business is to gain equilibrium as quickly as possible, meaning they will simply pass along any incurred cost to the mkt/end consumer.
You see the difference between a govt job and the private sector? Govt can absorb any punishment they inflict on others, because govt creates nothing, it is a total leech on society.
Give me one example to support your argument, just one, that's all I ask. Now that you've been challenged on your talking points, you see you were actually lied to when the left was building their case for a min wage increase, because they know any increase, no matter how small is detrimental to small business.
QuoteNow, I have said I don't agree that $15 is the number everywhere, it may make sense in places like New York City, but probably would be onerous in Mississippi where $10 might be more appropriate. but I have to say $7.25 anywhere is just too low based on COLA from 1968 to today. So this would in theory provide increased buying power creating consumption, demand, production and resulting jobs, while these increases would (theoretically although we do see it in periods of economic growth)
Those are my facts and data.
What facts? All you did is post leftist talking points. The truth is, no one gains, we all lose, because you just increased the cost of doing business incrementally across the board.
Action creates reaction, like a ripple on a pond, all you've managed to do is disrupt a functioning mechanism. Not only do you disrupt commerce in the US, the ripples become waves beyond the water affecting the shore, causing anyone along the outlier to adjust for the incoming surge, in turn, they effect those they associate with.
As usual, the left create unintended consequences with their faux feel good bull shit. And here you are, mindlessly defending it. It's your knee jerk responses that expose just how little you know on any given subject, but then, you're not alone, that's a qualifying trait to being a lib, ignoring reality.
QuoteFinally, I am not looking to bump this but I feel these are two relevant clarifications. My time during the day is sporadic which is why its taken me this long, if you want to let this one die I wont respond anymore.
Have a good night.
As long as it's on topic, it's fine.
If you want to hear "attaboys" then you need to post intelligent data. The only reason I sound harsh, is simply because you're wrong, you try with every post to support a failed ideology being forced on a capitalist society.
A capitalist society, one designed around the belief that individuals decide their own fate, not some faceless bureaucrat.
Start thinking along the lines of Liberty, and you just might break the grips of the Marxist chokehold they have over your train of thought.
Think about that for a moment, free will...
Quote from: Solar on August 04, 2016, 07:02:08 AM
And to that nonsense of business absorbing any increase?
IF there no problem(s) with wage hikes, then why do business move out of the U.S. :rolleyes: :closedeyes:
Why don't they just stay in the U.S. absorb all the hikes and go out of business. :ohmy:
Quote from: walkstall on August 04, 2016, 07:45:40 AM
IF there no problem(s) with wage hikes, then why do business move out of the U.S. :rolleyes: :closedeyes:
Why don't they just stay in the U.S. absorb all the hikes and go out of business. :ohmy:
Yep, if not for Silicon Valley, Ca would collapse. I wish to Hell they'd leave so the state would finally go under.
Quote from: Solar on August 04, 2016, 07:02:08 AM
You still haven't explained how Koch is like the communist.
The truth is, no one gains, we all lose, because you just increased the cost of doing business incrementally across the board.
Now I get it. I went back and read my first Koch quote then my second that you quoted here. I wondered if it was read that way. Yes that is what I wrote. Let me clarify. I did not mean to insinuate Koch was the "same" as Soros, but I did mean to say they are both different sides of the same coin. They are the equal of each other for their respective political ideologies but are politically about as opposite as you can get.
My apologies for not being more clear.
=======================
as far as raising the wage we can both bring up as many studies to support our points. I believe I am right and so do you.
here is what some small business owners said in a survey.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/07/14/why-small-business-owners-back-a-minimum-wage-hike
the question is by how much?
Quote from: Steve,SPHR on August 04, 2016, 04:02:11 PM
Now I get it. I went back and read my first Koch quote then my second that you quoted here. I wondered if it was read that way. Yes that is what I wrote. Let me clarify. I did not mean to insinuate Koch was the "same" as Soros, but I did mean to say they are both different sides of the same coin. They are the equal of each other for their respective political ideologies but are politically about as opposite as you can get.
My apologies for not being more clear.
=======================
as far as raising the wage we can both bring up as many studies to support our points. I believe I am right and so do you.
here is what some small business owners said in a survey.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/07/14/why-small-business-owners-back-a-minimum-wage-hike
the question is by how much?
Problem is, your's is an opinion piece, not actual facts.
This explains in very rudimentary points how a min wage increase hurts the very people they claim to help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFbYM2EDz40&list=PLNutoJpP8II0ovHBLvvME8bqojAmsZEel
More Proof: Raising the Minimum Wage Increases Unemployment
Written by Bob Adelmann
If more proof were needed that raising the minimum wage would increase unemployment among lesser-skilled workers, the Heritage Foundation's latest study provides it.
For one thing, the push for a national minimum wage of $15 an hour would actually cost employers $18.61 an hour, thanks to payroll taxes, unemployment insurance and ObamaCare taxes. The proposed increase, if passed into law, would, according to Heritage, impact one-third of all American workers, and hurt the most those working in lower-cost states.
The math is simple, and deadly. The only way an employer could justify paying a worker $18.61 an hour would be if that worker can generate more than $18.61 an hour in value for that employer. That's $37,700 a year just to break even. Most employers wouldn't bother hiring unless his new employee could earn more than that very quickly.
The myth that the employer would just suck it up and pay his workers the new minimum wage is just that: a myth. He has many options open to him, including not hiring a new worker, or asking a present employee to take on additional duties. He could stop offering low-margin products or services altogether, or install technology (i.e., robots) to perform those duties. He could close down his business altogether, laying off those employees that he already has. Or he could move — that's called "offshoring."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/23791-more-proof-raising-the-minimum-wage-increases-unemployment
This will make no impact on those leftists that claim MW hikes do no harm to the workers or the economy.
Lets keep these in one thread, K?
OK
So much for entry level jobs. :popcorn:
This Vending Machine Bakes 10-Inch Pizzas In 90 Seconds
Snip~
The makers of the world's first burrito vending machine are turning their attention to pizza.
Box Brands, based out of Los Angeles, is developing a machine that will bake a 10-inch pizza in 90 seconds.
The pies will cost $5 and come in a variety of combinations, including a sausage-and-egg "breakfast" pizza.
more @
http://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-box-vending-machine-2014-8
Quote from: walkstall on August 06, 2016, 08:23:41 PM
So much for entry level jobs. :popcorn:
This Vending Machine Bakes 10-Inch Pizzas In 90 Seconds
Snip~
The makers of the world's first burrito vending machine are turning their attention to pizza.
Box Brands, based out of Los Angeles, is developing a machine that will bake a 10-inch pizza in 90 seconds.
The pies will cost $5 and come in a variety of combinations, including a sausage-and-egg "breakfast" pizza.
more @
http://www.businessinsider.com/pizza-box-vending-machine-2014-8
Smart move libs, you just priced yourselves out of a job.
Quote from: Solar on August 06, 2016, 09:29:27 PM
Smart move libs, you just priced yourselves out of a job.
But Mrs. Pelosi says they can go on welfare and this will stimulate the economy. :smile:
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 07, 2016, 04:32:58 AM
But Mrs. Pelosi says they can go on welfare and this will stimulate the economy. :smile:
That's OK. Trump will build a wall keeping
illegal immigrants out. He will make Mexico pay for it. The wall will be 10 feet high and beautiful.
Mexico will build more...
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2-azcdn.newser.com%2Fsquare-image%2F118215-20110510075629%2Farizona-cops-find-find-high-tech-mexico-drug-tunnel.jpeg&hash=a9cec71082ec6471ffc72a821f020a531ff0b7f1)
Another weekend of event sales by 3 aspiring "kids" trying to learn how to market themselves...
Minus the travel time, "S" pulled down less than $100 for 2 days, "D" made less than $100, and "Z" made about $150 in comissions for 5hrs Saturday, and 8hrs Sunday. (note - we would not be doing Sunday events, but, curiously, around the DC area, that's when most of them are scheduled).
At 13hrs x $15per hr, none of them came close to $195 in sales. If there was a minimum wage, I'd have to PAY them for the time standing around, waiting for customers - and when we did have plenty of customers waiting for service, they are too ineffecient to make up the difference. I'd still go broke or be forced to lay off the ones who don't "earn their way" - ALL OF THEM.
Charge more - this is REALITY, and we're in a long lasting RECESSION, sales are down 20% from last year - what am I suppose to do, start demanding every potential customer BUY the products we manufacture, penalize them like Barak Obama does to us with "health care?" I can't increase my margin (profitability) by reducing my costs, neither can I raise prices to offset the poor sales - the products are just starting to get-off-the-ground in popularity. We're largely "unknown" - with word-of-mouth advertizing.
I'm in business ... if you wish to call it that, to teach these "kids" sales skills, and make money in the process, not to go absolutely broke. I don't buy into this livable wage crap, either these "kids" make it, or wind up taking a HR job where they can sit in judgement of productive workers & write impossible company policies which benefit nobody, but make themselves "feel" better. LOL
The Bitter Lesson From Seattle's Minimum Wage Hike
From http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/the-bitter-lesson-from-seattles-minimum-wage-hike/?ref=yfp
snip~
The Post recently highlighted a new study from a group of economists who were commissioned by the city of Seattle to look at that city's minimum wage hike from $9.96 an hour to $11.14 an hour. What they found was enlightening.
Good Call: Cleveland Rejects $15 Minimum Wage Proposal
Matt Vespa
Cleveland is not falling for it. The city recently rejected a $15 minimum wage proposal, not falling into the economic trap that Seattle fell into that saw its workers hours cut and less people employed. Nevertheless, it appears the pro-minimum wage cohort seems to be looking for ways to get this proposal on the November ballot, even though it will gut the city's economy.
<snip>
American Action Forum conducted a study where minimum wage increases actually hurt (shocker!) the very people it was meant to help, cutting 700,000 jobs in 2013 alone. They noted that for every $1 increase in wages accounted for a 1.48 percent spike in unemployment. Not good. Still, the politics of minimum wage increase is touchy territory for Republicans, as Democrats like to frame their opposition to such proposals as being anti-poor and lacking empathy.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/08/12/good-call-cleveland-rejects-15-minimum-wage-proposal-n2204064
Colorado has an initiative on the ballot to raise the minimum wage to $12/hr. Hopefully, that will go down in flames.
Kids had a great weekend at the latest event, but still fall far short of earning a minimum wage.
A couple of noteworthy things...
One of the kids (yes, a teenager) was "coaching" a 30 something, fresh out of the Army on selling.
He started "demonstrating" his "slightly used" gear, and people got interested enough to buy some of it.
Same girl was asked to sell for another vendor (again), fat chance!
Next to us, also across the room, we had vendors on both sides of us, sitting there quietly & selling nothing, but watching us making change. One guy packed it in, the guy on the other side started talking up a storm and stuff from his table started moving.
Across from us, was a guy with 2 teenage kids playing on their Iphones - literally two days. The adult did all the selling, collecting, making change, and packing up. So, being the nosey type... I had to ask.
Do you pay your kids a commission for selling?
Nope, I'm just babysitting, keeping them out of trouble.
(my 12yr old daughter, this was her 3rd event, outsold the more "seasoned" teenagers - we call it the "cute factor")
Have you thought of offering them a commission for sales as an incentive?
(I think I actually insulted the dude.)
Nope, they couldn't sell anything anyways.
(he was packing his van, the teenagers were watching him pack - not helping, just watching. Meanwhile, I was sitting in our vehicle, while my teenagers were packing and joking around about the characters they met.)
Since he was sort of taking a break from packing, I started suggesting how valuable a life lesson it is for kids to learn how to talk to adults, and learning how to market yourself is especially useful. I quit talking when he gave me this, "...are you kidding...?" look.
----------------------------------------------
I donno. Wifey and I decided to raise our kids to be adults, not adult children.
The last thing we'd want is minimum wage for any of our kids.
..or worst than that, Socialism that penalizes achievement & rewards laziness.
Paying YOUR kid to house-sit and take care of the livestock might not sit well with some folks. From my experience, the sooner the kids learn the concept of hard work has it's rewards, and they're more likely to engage their brain in the process. I gave them a few tips, how to describe the products, how to present themselves & create a desire in the potential customer - now they're coaching each other to become better salespersons. As an added bonus, they view work around the farm as a profitable thing - each owns a few animals, and will market them too.
Quote from: Hoofer on August 23, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
Kids had a great weekend at the latest event, but still fall far short of earning a minimum wage.
A couple of noteworthy things...
One of the kids (yes, a teenager) was "coaching" a 30 something, fresh out of the Army on selling.
He started "demonstrating" his "slightly used" gear, and people got interested enough to buy some of it.
Same girl was asked to sell for another vendor (again), fat chance!
Next to us, also across the room, we had vendors on both sides of us, sitting there quietly & selling nothing, but watching us making change. One guy packed it in, the guy on the other side started talking up a storm and stuff from his table started moving.
Across from us, was a guy with 2 teenage kids playing on their Iphones - literally two days. The adult did all the selling, collecting, making change, and packing up. So, being the nosey type... I had to ask.
Do you pay your kids a commission for selling?
Nope, I'm just babysitting, keeping them out of trouble.
(my 12yr old daughter, this was her 3rd event, outsold the more "seasoned" teenagers - we call it the "cute factor")
Have you thought of offering them a commission for sales as an incentive?
(I think I actually insulted the dude.)
Nope, they couldn't sell anything anyways.
(he was packing his van, the teenagers were watching him pack - not helping, just watching. Meanwhile, I was sitting in our vehicle, while my teenagers were packing and joking around about the characters they met.)
Since he was sort of taking a break from packing, I started suggesting how valuable a life lesson it is for kids to learn how to talk to adults, and learning how to market yourself is especially useful. I quit talking when he gave me this, "...are you kidding...?" look.
----------------------------------------------
I donno. Wifey and I decided to raise our kids to be adults, not adult children.
The last thing we'd want is minimum wage for any of our kids.
..or worst than that, Socialism that penalizes achievement & rewards laziness.
Paying YOUR kid to house-sit and take care of the livestock might not sit well with some folks. From my experience, the sooner the kids learn the concept of hard work has it's rewards, and they're more likely to engage their brain in the process. I gave them a few tips, how to describe the products, how to present themselves & create a desire in the potential customer - now they're coaching each other to become better salespersons. As an added bonus, they view work around the farm as a profitable thing - each owns a few animals, and will market them too.
What you described is a microcosm of what our society has become. These "helicopter" parents have no idea what they are creating. When the kids become adults and can't get a job they will be first looking around looking for someone besides themselves to blame. Most become democrats because the dems will pander to their situation.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 24, 2016, 04:26:23 AM
What you described is a microcosm of what our society has become. These "helicopter" parents have no idea what they are creating. When the kids become adults and can't get a job they will be first looking around looking for someone besides themselves to blame. Most become democrats because the dems will pander to their situation.
Precisely! We need politicians preaching self-sufficiency and rugged individualism again.
If a candidate actually ran as a true job creator, minimum wage wouldn't be an issue at all.
Problem we face with these large companies - they get overrun with political correctness, and become useful idiots for the state.
A college student studying econ could've predicted this. Markets are efficient and will adapt accordingly.