Quote from: Supposn on April 17, 2012, 01:23:22 PM
Solar wrote:

I'm not talking about exporters, I'm talking about imported goods.

Go back and read it again.
////////////////////////////
   
Solar, Imports and exports are assessed in the same manner. Return to the top of this reply and read the transcribed message again.
Respectfully, Supposn

No they are not, exporters are given credits, where importers are penalized.
Every one of our trading partners will not stand for this, they will retaliate, most likely either quit buying our products, or raise the price of products we buy from them.
If I were one of these countries, I would look for friendlier mkts with which to trade.
All you will manage to do is start a trade war.
Why is that so hard to conceptualize?

Am I being clear enough for you?
I know you were not born in the U.S. or this would not go over your head so easily.

Supposn wrote:
Solar, Imports and exports are assessed in the same manner.
* * *

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2012, 02:40:35 PM
No they are not, exporters are given credits, where importers are penalized.
.....................

Solar, with regard to the proposal for an Import Certificate policy:
What "credit" and/or "penalty" provisions are you referring to?  I recall no such provisions within the IC proposal.

Again I write "if you're seeking explicit answers, you should write explicit questions.

Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2012, 02:34:40 PM
What you don't understand is Toyota doesn't import these parts, some little company imports them for Toyota and other compnaies.
Do you have any idea as to the amount of paperwork involved in your little scheme, or the cost added to every part imported?
Then you have people that will find other ways around your scheme, making them overnight felons, simply because they didn't have the capital to buy into your tax scheme.
Think Carbon Credits.

But you still haven't addressed my specific question regarding consequences when other trading partners take this at face value, a penalty on imported products.
They WILL retaliate, they know you are trying to cut them out of the picture in the long run.
Don't be so naive.
So again, I ask you, with my previous post in mind about small parts required for maintenance of refrigeration or Quad runners, something we don't even build in this country. 
How will you deal with our collapse of society on a whole?

Solar, I won't or maybe I can't speculate if your comments are reasonable or paranoiac hysteria.
You wrote a 165 word reply that's full of blurbs which may have meaning to you but are meaningless to me.

For example you wrote "So again, I ask you, with my previous post in mind about small parts required for maintenance of refrigeration or Quad runners, something we don't even build in this country".

You don't give me a clue as to what you believe is the problem?  Explicitly explain how what you've written is related to the Import Certificate proposal?  Explicitly what's your question? Explicitly what's your complaint? You fault me because you're unable to express yourself in an understandable manner?  I'm not a mind reader.

Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Supposn on April 17, 2012, 10:51:01 PM
Solar, I won't or maybe I can't speculate if your comments are reasonable or paranoiac hysteria.
You wrote a 165 word reply that's full of blurbs which may have meaning to you but are meaningless to me.

For example you wrote "So again, I ask you, with my previous post in mind about small parts required for maintenance of refrigeration or Quad runners, something we don't even build in this country".

You don't give me a clue as to what you believe is the problem?  Explicitly explain how what you've written is related to the Import Certificate proposal?  Explicitly what's your question? Explicitly what's your complaint? You fault me because you're unable to express yourself in an understandable manner?  I'm not a mind reader.

Respectfully, Supposn

You know why you don't understand it? Because you don't understand how free mkt/ free trade works.
This is why I have such a problem with your plan, you have no idea what you're proposing, if you did, you would find a new cause, because this one will kill trade faster then a nuclear attack.

I'll ask you again, what country are you from?
I ask, because it would make it easier to explain the issue to you.
Most Americans come with basic knowledge of Capitalism, you on the other hand, are extremely void of certain aspects on the subject.
No offense intended, but its why you simply can't see the consequences of what you propose.
People are not machines, they will not do as they are told, socialist nations are another story, but here in the U.S..

Solar, for a good portion of my life, I supported my family by writing computer programs and analyzing businesses systems during good portion of my life.
I personally may be more disorganized than most other people but I was appreciated for my ability to analyze undocumented business procedures and determine what was being done, and how it was done.  My profession required me to find or bring order to the chaos that was presented to me.

Before introducing a new or modified system into the corporation's operations, I had to test it for "bugs", (i.e. failures that never yet occurred during the system's development and the possibility of those failures were not apparent to me or anyone else).
I developed programs to generate test data for combinations of circumstances I couldn't conceive because their occurrences were impossible.  From such test data I learned what the computer would do if it (correctly or falsely) sensed the impossible has occurred.  If our group did inadvertently create something containing bugs, I fixed them or directed someone in my group to rectify their own errors.
A newly created or existing sub-system and all of the sub-systems' programs  or the finished sub system passed vigorous testing before being installed into the corporation's live system.

The point is my valid experience with the detection of unapparent and unanticipated possibilities of system failures.
I'm thus far satisfied that this Import Certificate proposal is worthy of further consideration.

You disagree but are unable to EXPLITLY describe a condition or circumstance where this proposal is likely to fail or the manner of its failure.  You imply and allude but are never explicit.  I regret that you haven't thought through some of your implications.

Solar, I'm running late.  I'll finish this reply when I return.
Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Supposn on April 18, 2012, 11:38:27 AM
Solar, for a good portion of my life, I supported my family by writing computer programs and analyzing businesses systems during good portion of my life.
I personally may be more disorganized than most other people but I was appreciated for my ability to analyze undocumented business procedures and determine what was being done, and how it was done.  My profession required me to find or bring order to the chaos that was presented to me.

Before introducing a new or modified system into the corporation's operations, I had to test it for "bugs", (i.e. failures that never yet occurred during the system's development and the possibility of those failures were not apparent to me or anyone else).
I developed programs to generate test data for combinations of circumstances I couldn't conceive because their occurrences were impossible.  From such test data I learned what the computer would do if it (correctly or falsely) sensed the impossible has occurred.  If our group did inadvertently create something containing bugs, I fixed them or directed someone in my group to rectify their own errors.
A newly created or existing sub-system and all of the sub-systems' programs  or the finished sub system passed vigorous testing before being installed into the corporation's live system.

The point is my valid experience with the detection of unapparent and unanticipated possibilities of system failures.
I'm thus far satisfied that this Import Certificate proposal is worthy of further consideration.

You disagree but are unable to EXPLITLY describe a condition or circumstance where this proposal is likely to fail or the manner of its failure.  You imply and allude but are never explicit.  I regret that you haven't thought through some of your implications.

Solar, I'm running late.  I'll finish this reply when I return.
Respectfully, Supposn

What country are you from, is the question to hard?
Secondly, I gave you a solid question regarding consequences, yet you claim to be a problem solver?

Heres the thing, you are trying to validate socialism, a concept that has never worked.
No matter how hard you try, no matter how many answers you come up with, there will always be complications/consequences.

Your proposal will create problems with trade, you will piss off our trading partners, they will retaliate.
Yet you claim you've thought this through in its entirety?

In all your wisdom, have you even considered this as a possibility?
Answer: Of course you haven't, or you would have been able to understand my previous question.

I suggest you take some business courses to get a better understanding of how Capitalism works.
There are core principals that make Capitalism work.
What you are proposing completely goes against these principals.

Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2012, 11:58:44 AM
What country are you from, is the question to hard?
Secondly, I gave you a solid question regarding consequences, yet you claim to be a problem solver?

Heres the thing, you are trying to validate socialism, a concept that has never worked.
No matter how hard you try, no matter how many answers you come up with, there will always be complications/consequences.

Your proposal will create problems with trade, you will piss off our trading partners, they will retaliate.
Yet you claim you've thought this through in its entirety?

In all your wisdom, have you even considered this as a possibility?
Answer: Of course you haven't, or you would have been able to understand my previous question.

I suggest you take some business courses to get a better understanding of how Capitalism works.
There are core principals that make Capitalism work.
What you are proposing completely goes against these principals.

Hmm...Do you think he would learn something from the teachers or professors that we now have.  I don't think they even know or care how Capitalism works!   Just look at the morons, idiots and imbeciles there putting out.  Just saying.   

Quote from: Supposn on April 18, 2012, 11:38:27 AM
Solar, for a good portion of my life, I supported my family by writing computer programs and analyzing businesses systems during good portion of my life.

Same here.

Quote
I personally may be more disorganized than most other people but I was appreciated for my ability to analyze undocumented business procedures and determine what was being done, and how it was done.  My profession required me to find or bring order to the chaos that was presented to me.

It isn't that big of a deal. Get over yourself.

Quote
Before introducing a new or modified system into the corporation's operations, I had to test it for "bugs", (i.e. failures that never yet occurred during the system's development and the possibility of those failures were not apparent to me or anyone else).

Congratulations.  You do what everyone does before rolling out changes to production.  Wow.

Quote
I developed programs to generate test data for combinations of circumstances I couldn't conceive because their occurrences were impossible.

Wow.  You tested your code.  Neat.

Quote
  From such test data I learned what the computer would do if it (correctly or falsely) sensed the impossible has occurred.  If our group did inadvertently create something containing bugs, I fixed them or directed someone in my group to rectify their own errors.
A newly created or existing sub-system and all of the sub-systems' programs  or the finished sub system passed vigorous testing before being installed into the corporation's live system.

You performed Q&A and tested your changes. Amazing.

Quote
The point is my valid experience with the detection of unapparent and unanticipated possibilities of system failures.
I'm thus far satisfied that this Import Certificate proposal is worthy of further consideration.

Odds are I have more experience than you in your field, and I can promise you have no clue about what you are talking about in regards to economics. No offense.

Quote
You disagree but are unable to EXPLITLY describe a condition or circumstance where this proposal is likely to fail or the manner of its failure.  You imply and allude but are never explicit.  I regret that you haven't thought through some of your implications.

Why is it Solar's job to educate you on the basic economics?

Quote
Solar, I'm running late.  I'll finish this reply when I return.
Respectfully, Supposn

Hurry back!

Quote from: taxed on April 18, 2012, 02:36:55 PM
Same here.
It isn't that big of a deal. Get over yourself.
Congratulations.  You do what everyone does before rolling out changes to production.  Wow.

Wow.  You tested your code.  Neat.

You performed Q&A and tested your changes. Amazing.

Odds are I have more experience than you in your field, and I can promise you have no clue about what you are talking about in regards to economics. No offense.

Why is it Solar's job to educate you on the basic economics?

Hurry back!

Interesting how writing code can be equated to completely overhauling our free trade agreements...

Quote from: Supposn on April 18, 2012, 11:38:27 AM
Solar, for a good portion of my life, I supported my family by writing computer programs and analyzing businesses systems during good portion of my life.
I personally may be more disorganized than most other people but I was appreciated for my ability to analyze undocumented business procedures and determine what was being done, and how it was done.  My profession required me to find or bring order to the chaos that was presented to me.

Before introducing a new or modified system into the corporation's operations, I had to test it for "bugs", (i.e. failures that never yet occurred during the system's development and the possibility of those failures were not apparent to me or anyone else).
I developed programs to generate test data for combinations of circumstances I couldn't conceive because their occurrences were impossible.  From such test data I learned what the computer would do if it (correctly or falsely) sensed the impossible has occurred.  If our group did inadvertently create something containing bugs, I fixed them or directed someone in my group to rectify their own errors.
A newly created or existing sub-system and all of the sub-systems' programs  or the finished sub system passed vigorous testing before being installed into the corporation's live system.

The point is my valid experience with the detection of unapparent and unanticipated possibilities of system failures.
I'm thus far satisfied that this Import Certificate proposal is worthy of further consideration.

You disagree but are unable to EXPLITLY describe a condition or circumstance where this proposal is likely to fail or the manner of its failure.  You imply and allude but are never explicit.  I regret that you haven't thought through some of your implications.

Solar, I'm running late.  I'll finish this reply when I return.
Respectfully, Supposn

Heres the question that I hope you can understand.
Just for shits and grins, lets say you impose your tax on exporters and they quit importing, which they will.
Now the consequences of this, is that our trading partners don't like it and retaliate against our exporters.
What will you do then?

Please don't tell me you haven't thought about this.

Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2012, 03:29:53 PM
Interesting how writing code can be equated to completely overhauling our free trade agreements...

According to him, coders are Marxists....

Quote from: Solar on April 17, 2012, 02:34:40 PM
...................Do you have any idea as to the amount of paperwork involved in your little scheme, or the cost added to every part imported?

Solar, importers' additional expense is the acquisition of Import Certificates and additional photo copies of shipping invoices and bills of lading.  The only problem is home land security is now apparently not reading or fully considering the bills of lading and shipping invoices with regard to their current home land security obligations.

You write inexplicit blurbs with no EXPLICIT mention of the problem you claim they entail.
I have a feeling you're never actually looked into how the Import Certificate policy would actually interact with the subjects of your blurbs.

For examples what problems related to the Import Certificate proposal do you find with the following;(please be EXPLICIT):

"fuel pumps, wiper blades, headlights, hard drives, starting motors cast in Japan, copper windings from China, then assembled in Mexico"; "Toyota doesn't import these (Japanese) parts, some little company imports them for Toyota and other companies", "Quad runner and tractors industry"; "Refrigeration, food storage and medical operations","manufacturers here in the US depend on tiny parts from other countries",not all imports are complete products, some may be less than 1% of a product, "not all imports are complete products, some may be less than 1% of a product", "exporters are given credits, where importers are penalized"?

Respectfully, Supposn

Solar, it's no surprise to ether of us that I doubt much of what you've written.
This writing's so inexplicit that it's almost meaningless.  I can't refute meaningless expressions.

Unless you can better explain what you actually meant (relative to the Import Certificate proposal), I can at best consider these blurbs as exuberant nonsense or at worst deliberately incorrect.

For example you wrote:

(that I) "want government to oversee a PRIVATE company and its PRIVATE books to levy a tax, or fine for noncompliance, which adds about 25% of time from the producer to deal with red tape and steal from employees time to deal with it";

(regarding the IC proposal) "there's an "issue of Constitutionality, of which it is not, though there is precedent" (and I) "want to give government even more search and seizure power".

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

This paragraph is sufficiently explicit and it's obviously nonsense:

" So you micromanage the system to say that importers of unfinished products will get a reduction in tax.
Do you know what every importer would do? They would tell their overseas supplier, to leave a part off and let us attach it, so we can qualify it as unfinished.
Now you're wise to them, so you hire more government workers to watch over these importers, adding more to the cost".

Let's start with the last sentence.  What you suggest would be obviously legal and lawyers wouldn't waste their time arguing otherwise.  If a U.S. producing enterprise wants to spend more expensive U. S. labor trying to decrease what would be a much a much lesser federal fee, why should anyone try stop them?  Remember these fees are not net tax revenue.  They are by law (if the act's properly drafted), set to defray federal direct expenses due to the IC policy.   Would you spend many more dollars to save fewer nickels?

Respectfully, Supposn

Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2012, 03:34:19 PM
Heres the question that I hope you can understand.
Just for shits and grins, lets say you impose your tax on exporters and they quit importing, which they will.
Now the consequences of this, is that our trading partners don't like it and retaliate against our exporters.
What will you do then?

Please don't tell me you haven't thought about this.

Solar, in response to your reply #84, refer to reply #59, posted at 8:31AM, April 16, 2012.

Respectfully, Supposn

Answer the question. Are you an American educated in our school system?

No evasions. Yes or no.