Quote from: walkstall on July 22, 2016, 09:39:36 PM
It's 6 years old!       Taxed sent the 200K to my wife last year.  She tighter with money than I am if you can believe that.   

Six years old? What happened to the other Rolls we bought you every year?
OK, that's it, from now on you'll just have to live with a chauffeur, the wife no longer gets the title.

Quote from: Solar on July 23, 2016, 05:23:30 AM
Six years old? What happened to the other Rolls we bought you every year?
OK, that's it, from now on you'll just have to live with a chauffeur, the wife no longer gets the title.

I have no problems with the chauffeur sitting in the back seat.

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 22, 2016, 03:11:24 PM

taxed I am very capable.  you know where I come from the cute insults you are tossing would be considered a White Flag.

If you truly don't understand that is one thing if you are being obtuse that is boring to me and I would prefer to move on to more interesting things.

if you have never experienced or seen what I am describing then that is good for you.  But many people experience what I amd describing as a way of life.

There has been a BOOM of walled communities they call them "Gated" Communities with guard stations and everyone has to be checked.

I guess I am surprised that I have to explain this and that you REALLY are hearing this all for the first time.  I really don't believe that so then I go back to my above statement.  This is common knowledge everyone knows this.  That is why your questions kind of stun me.  I don't know whether you are being serious or intentionally obtuse.


I am all for honest debate but I am not interested in talking in circles.  No offense meant its just how I believe this conversation is playing out and not from my side.

If I am wrong I apologize.

Sorry for butting in on this conversation between you and Taxed. However, I have a question. Why do you feel gated communities have to be "checked"? If a person has the means and desire to live in a community where they feel more secure why should they be deprived of that. How does "checking" gated communities help those that do not live there? You premise is, 100% liberal BS.

Quote from: walkstall on July 23, 2016, 05:32:08 AM

I have no problems with the chauffeur sitting in the back seat.

Nah, that's the wife's job as backseat driver.

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 22, 2016, 01:24:12 PM

Not at all taxed.

Quote
  Looking at the population we know some 47% pay no income tax, and that same 47% has virtually no savings.  When they lose their job it is a short distance to eviction for many of them.
Why would they want to be evicted?


Quote
we end up with walled communities,
Poor people are building walls?  Now I'm confused.


1. clearly no one wants to be evicted and that is not what I said.

2. Same thing with walled communities which would not be built by the poor people but the rich to keep the growing poor out.


In a discussion we certainly don't ever have to agree, but the parties must agree on the basic facts. if that cannot be done then there is no point in having the discussion because it just goes in circles.  That is where I felt that post was headed.


Obviously I am not communicating clearly enough so I found no point in continuing.


Thanks for your response I appreciate it.

Do you seriously think people live in gated communities to keep poor people out?
Let me enlighten you, that is an extremely ignorant and bigoted view. Poor people want to and do live in these communities because they want to feel safe, escape the crime of the city.
I grew up in what later became the crime hub of Sacramento, and guess what happened? The people actually boarded up their homes with plywood across the windows, apartment buildings built walls around their complexes, gated the entries, hired security staff, all because of the cost of crime.
These are in no way considered rich areas, in fact a condo in this area was selling for $29.500, while the same condo across town in a better area cost 150 thousand more.
Point is, rich and poor alike want to feel safe. Maybe if we locked up the scum causing all the crime? No, how about we tackle the cause of the issue?
Oh, that's right, welfare is there to help....

Can you imagine if these people had to spend their crime time, actually working at a Goddamn job?

Quote from: Solar on July 23, 2016, 07:32:20 AM
Do you seriously think people live in gated communities to keep poor people out?
Let me enlighten you, that is an extremely ignorant and bigoted view. Poor people want to and do live in these communities because they want to feel safe, escape the crime of the city.
I grew up in what later became the crime hub of Sacramento, and guess what happened? The people actually boarded up their homes with plywood across the windows, apartment buildings built walls around their complexes, gated the entries, hired security staff, all because of the cost of crime.
These are in no way considered rich areas, in fact a condo in this area was selling for $29.500, while the same condo across town in a better area cost 150 thousand more.
Point is, rich and poor alike want to feel safe. Maybe if we locked up the scum causing all the crime? No, how about we tackle the cause of the issue?
Oh, that's right, welfare is there to help....

Can you imagine if these people had to spend their crime time, actually working at a Goddamn job?

We live about 15 miles from the closest small town.  About 2 miles from us is a a Black Gated Community of impoverished people.  I drive by it a dozen times a week.  What the government & police couldn't do, they have taken upon themselves - providing their own peace & safety.  They've even got it painted on a wall, the (blank) Community.  All nice people - when I drive through the area, I'll offer a bottle of water to adults or kids walking along the road - I applaud what they're doing, taking personal responsibility for themselves.

Sort of like winding the clock back 50 years, they are a self-policing, vibrant community.

Quote from: Hoofer on July 23, 2016, 08:13:05 AM
We live about 15 miles from the closest small town.  About 2 miles from us is a a Black Gated Community of impoverished people.  I drive by it a dozen times a week.  What the government & police couldn't do, they have taken upon themselves - providing their own peace & safety.  They've even got it painted on a wall, the (blank) Community.  All nice people - when I drive through the area, I'll offer a bottle of water to adults or kids walking along the road - I applaud what they're doing, taking personal responsibility for themselves.

Sort of like winding the clock back 50 years, they are a self-policing, vibrant community.

Noooo, we need to control every aspect of their lives, remove all obstacles to protect them from evil rich capitalists looking to prey upon them. You know, vanquish human nature.
Like helicopter parents creating a generation of kids in need of "Safe Spaces", that's what leftists do by nature, control every aspect of someone's life till they've completely ruined their self esteem.

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 22, 2016, 04:49:11 PM

People ARE able to accomplish a lot on their own I agree.

Are and do...

Quote
and kids CAN learn in all kinds of difficult situations.

Can and do...

Quote
  But the more they have against them the harder it is and while it may build character it is no way to build a country.

Building character is a way to build the country.  Telling kids they have too hard a life and hooking them up to the gov tit isn't.  If we can get liberals to quit making poor feel like they were born victims, then it will be a step in the right direction.

Quote
  We need to have a safety net for those kids that are at risk to going under.

That's what family and their community is for.

Quote
that is it.  identify those kids whose lives are so difficult that we are concerned they may not make it and pluck them out of that bad situation and teach them to live on their own.

Why?

Quote
frankly I am baffled anyone could find fault with such an effort for any political victory from either side liberal or conservative.

Government intervention ruins lives and erodes our liberties.  It's not too hard to grasp.

Quote
when we get to those places that makes me want to wash my hands ffrankly if we cant agree on the most fundamental basis for our country which is our development of our young people.

You want government and welfare.  I want family, community, and free market capitalism to lift them out.  For example, you can't be in favor of minimum wage, then throw your hands up and say it's too rough out there.  We have poverty because of liberal policies.  It really is that simple.

Quote
Depending on which survery you pick Massachusetts has been #1 or #2 in the nation for the past several years, and we don't spend an inordinate amount on education we just hold TEACHERS accountable.  Andit works.

I got news for you... it doesn't.  MA may have the best ranked schools, but I can promise you with 100% certainty they aren't that far above someone in some crappy education state like Arkansas.  If you gave me a student from MA and one from, say, AL, I guarantee neither will be able to read and write.

Quote
I really don't understand why we have ANY disagreement there.

Because liberalism and government is the problem.  You advocate for liberalism and government.  That means you promote the problem and want to turn everyone into victims.  I don't agree that's how we should attack and fix the problem.

Quote
frankly I find some people seek conflict and fear agreement.

Don't be so hard on yourself.  You're doing fine.

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 22, 2016, 04:52:39 PM
ps...Agreement is not a sign of weakness.

by the way.

I........ um........... huh?

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 22, 2016, 06:13:04 PM

walks,

I have to apologize to you. 

I did not respond to your post because I didn't think it would make any difference.  but believe me I read it.  Several times. Your opinion is important to me.  You have insight you are the heartbeat of this board.  I can sense this.


As you know maybe more than any of us the quality of life is made up of the quality of our relationships everyone who we meet throughout our lives .  And our relationships can be with our loved ones or wildlife or the land.  It is our relationship mostly with ourselves. 

Based on the feeling I am getting from this board I might be flamed out at any moment I certainly don't feel welcome  but I appreciate YOU sending my introduction to the Board of Directors you have always treated me fairly.

Best to you walks.

Yeah.  How dare we have a discussion.  Sorry about that.

Quote from: taxed on July 23, 2016, 02:16:20 PM

Because liberalism and government is the problem.  You advocate for liberalism and government.  That means you promote the problem and want to turn everyone into victims.  I don't agree that's how we should attack and fix the problem.

Liberalism uses ENVY to create victims.  Someone has got it better than you.  Television does us no favors.
Nobody cared, or mentioned "Income equality gaps", "glass ceilings" & "minimum wage", when I was growing up in poverty, deep in the hills... and we were quite satisfied without any government programs bailing us out.  Now that government is involved in healthcare, I have to make an appointment weeks ahead to see a doctor.  Back then, they came to our house, and sometimes stayed for dinner.

"Government is not the solution, Government is the problem"  - Reagan (as close as I can quote him)

Quote from: Hoofer on July 23, 2016, 03:15:33 PM
Liberalism uses ENVY to create victims.  Someone has got it better than you.  Television does us no favors.
Nobody cared, or mentioned "Income equality gaps", "glass ceilings" & "minimum wage", when I was growing up in poverty, deep in the hills... and we were quite satisfied without any government programs bailing us out.  Now that government is involved in healthcare, I have to make an appointment weeks ahead to see a doctor.  Back then, they came to our house, and sometimes stayed for dinner.

"Government is not the solution, Government is the problem"  - Reagan (as close as I can quote him)

I have gone from Doctors making house calls, come in today, I have a opening next week, next month to in 3 months unless it is a emergency.  Then they will tell you go to a little ER room, there popping up all over the place.   

I even had all my insurance agents coming to me, now I have to go to them.   

Steve,SPHR wrote:  "I am all for honest debate but I am not interested in talking in circles."

Ah yes, the true colors begin to fly.  People are "obtuse" and "insults" are "white flags" all of which Steve is known for.  It is only a matter of time before he questions your education and  refers to you as children.  It's the Steve,SPHR way. 

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 21, 2016, 05:49:29 PM

The other thing also, Solar keep in mind, I came from a board that I called the Wild West and insults were amazing and I was regularly told "Steve you make good points but you are so arrogant and condescending" to which I would reply I play to my audience.  If you are respectful I am respectful but I do not suffer fools gladly and will make no apologies for that and never will.  That board allowed pretty much open brawls. 

I can argue with the best of them.  I've been told I'm a real <fill in the blank use any word I have had them all applied publicly>  but you'd ban me.  and that's no fun and I wouldn't learn anything or get to know any of you.

This board is different.

This is your house.  I have to follow the house rules if I want to stay. So I have not looked for a argument but an exchange of ideas.  And that is really why I am here anyway.  I was serious when I said that.

I feel "why cant <Solar, or whomever> understand what I am saying will be best for the nation in the long run???


and I imagine you have a similar conversation with yourself about your ideas of what the nation needs.  So clearly we both feel our way is the best way.

The CHANCE of Bringing ONE MINUTE IDEA of these two opposites of you and me to some kind of mutual understanding like the spark of the particle multiplier for a millisecond, even if mathematically impossible is what fascinates me.  I want to keep trying to find common ground.


And at the end of the day I hope to have some interesting discussions, understand more than I did and if I make a friend that's even better.

But my expectations is only that I will learn something one way or the other.

I love the edit feature!  This board is very well constructed.  Well done whoever did this. 

His audience was smarter than him on pretty much every topic where Steve could only rely upon his opinion and the facts seemed to never support them.  So Steve would resort to condescension and belittling those with different views.  When called out on his behavior, Steve would play the victim and claim to be bullied.  Just like every progressive liberal.  Heck, the DNC got hacked and they played the victim card claiming it was the Russians on behalf of Trump.  Like a bunch of kids getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar they blame others instead of accepting responsibility. 

Quote from: Steve,SPHR on July 21, 2016, 05:49:29 PM

The other thing also, Solar keep in mind, I came from a board that I called the Wild West and insults were amazing and I was regularly told "Steve you make good points but you are so arrogant and condescending" to which I would reply I play to my audience.  If you are respectful I am respectful but I do not suffer fools gladly and will make no apologies for that and never will.  That board allowed pretty much open brawls. 

I can argue with the best of them.  I've been told I'm a real <fill in the blank use any word I have had them all applied publicly>  but you'd ban me.  and that's no fun and I wouldn't learn anything or get to know any of you.

This board is different.

This is your house.  I have to follow the house rules if I want to stay. So I have not looked for a argument but an exchange of ideas.  And that is really why I am here anyway.  I was serious when I said that.

I feel "why cant <Solar, or whomever> understand what I am saying will be best for the nation in the long run???

I missed this earlier.
The answer is, because Conservatives are Right, we follow the ideals set by our Founders, anything to the contrary, such as Democracy, socialism marxism etc is in complete opposition to the Constitution.
Fact is, your vision of what America should look like, or how it should function is flat ass wrong! No offense intended.

Quoteand I imagine you have a similar conversation with yourself about your ideas of what the nation needs.  So clearly we both feel our way is the best way.

You mean like "What the fuck is wrong with these idiot liberals"? Like those conversations?

QuoteThe CHANCE of Bringing ONE MINUTE IDEA of these two opposites of you and me to some kind of mutual understanding like the spark of the particle multiplier for a millisecond, even if mathematically impossible is what fascinates me.  I want to keep trying to find common ground.

Oh I get your point, and the only common ground you're going to find here, is if you come over to our side.
We do not compromise with the left, it really is that simple.
Maybe 70 years ago, but the nation has moved so far left, that any compromise is akin to conceding one's principles.

QuoteAnd at the end of the day I hope to have some interesting discussions, understand more than I did and if I make a friend that's even better.

We're happy to teach.

QuoteBut my expectations is only that I will learn something one way or the other.

I love the edit feature!  This board is very well constructed.  Well done whoever did this. 

See, you learned something...