Quote from: Possum on August 15, 2023, 05:59:43 PMIF you are talking about the results in the Ohio election and the changes to the state constitution, a quick search would tell you different story. The democrats painted this as an over reach, without using the term abortion, instead using freedom of choice, and spent millions showing how the bad republicans were taking away rights. The republicans basically sat on their collective butt and did little, spent little. they damn sure did not show that this was an issue of life and death. Of right vs wrong. In other words they did not push to win. Sounds like they were taking your advice.

As for the 2022 elections, in the senate races, every incumbent running, won. What that should tell you, red states are very red, and blue states are very blue. This country is very divided. If you can name congressional races that were decided by abortion, list them. And I don't mean where a republican lost in a solid blue territory.

Whether you want to admit it or not, abortion, child abuse, drug abuse, the border, trans rights and the list goes on are all issues we need to know where the candidates stand on. Now is not the time to back down and hide your beliefs. That is how you get a Joe Biden.

I'm not saying anyone should back down on their beliefs.  I just don't think it's a good move to make the Presidential election, or probably any election, a referendum on abortion if you're a Republican.  There have been a handful of elections, including Montana and Kentucky soon after Dobbs, where abortion rights were supported. Kentucky tried to pass a constitutional amendment to outlaw law abortion and it failed.  Same with Kansas.  North Carolina had unexpected results on an abortion bill, also, I believe.  Same with Ohio recently.

Quote from: ZenMode on August 16, 2023, 06:32:55 AMI'm not saying anyone should back down on their beliefs.  I just don't think it's a good move to make the Presidential election, or probably any election, a referendum on abortion if you're a Republican.

Like it or not, ever since the SCOTUS overturned Roe and turned abortion back to the states, it is now an issue. I asked you in the post you answered "can you name congressional races that were decided by abortion, list them. And I don't mean where a republican lost in a solid blue territory." since you did not answer I assume you can not name any, I can not find one. There are many prolife who were elected. This will be a states issue, will it be a presidential issue remains to be seen.

QuoteThere have been a handful of elections, including Montana and Kentucky soon after Dobbs, where abortion rights were supported. Kentucky tried to pass a constitutional amendment to outlaw law abortion and it failed.  Same with Kansas.  North Carolina had unexpected results on an abortion bill, also, I believe.  Same with Ohio recently.

And here is where we are hitting a snag. The majority (71%) do not want to see abortion legal in the third trimester, while at the same time, do not want to see an out right total ban. Kentucky is an excellent example of what we are facing, they did not pass banning abortion, yet they elected a majority of pro life congressmen. Add to that prolife does a terrible job at getting the message out and tend to let the liberals dictate that message. Ohio is an excellent example.

QuoteI'm not saying anyone should back down on their beliefs.  I just don't think it's a good move to make the Presidential election, or probably any election, a referendum on abortion if you're a Republican.

OK, and you think the democrats will go along with that? Like I said before, since Roe was turned back to the states, this is now an issue. Probably the only issue the democrats have. They can not run on education, public safety, the economy, the border, ETC. but they can run on the scared notion that republicans are taking away your rights. We do not need the republicans having meeting to discuss how to hide their views, we need them to discuss how they are going to fight this.

QuoteThere have been a handful of elections, including Montana and Kentucky soon after Dobbs, where abortion rights were supported.

Again, in both those states, pro life candidates were elected. We also have Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, and the list is growing are states that successfully protected the un-born's life. they did pass laws restricting abortion. They also did a great job getting their message out.

QuoteKentucky tried to pass a constitutional amendment to outlaw law abortion and it failed.  Same with Kansas.  North Carolina had unexpected results on an abortion bill, also, I believe.  Same with Ohio recently.

Again, like it or not, the left, the media, the liberals, the fanatics, are going to make sure this will be one of the main issues in front of the people. We can not stop that. If our strategy is to ignore the issue, or to claim they are undecided, WE WILL LOSE. The party had better come up with an answer the people accept.


 

Quote from: Possum on August 16, 2023, 10:45:49 AMLike it or not, ever since the SCOTUS overturned Roe and turned abortion back to the states, it is now an issue. I asked you in the post you answered "can you name congressional races that were decided by abortion, list them. And I don't mean where a republican lost in a solid blue territory." since you did not answer I assume you can not name any, I can not find one. There are many prolife who were elected. This will be a states issue, will it be a presidential issue remains to be seen.

Why people vote for the candidates they do is an ongoing mystery that every political party/candidate would love to solve.  There is rarely a singular issue that determines who a person votes for.  So, your question is basically impossible to answer.

QuoteAnd here is where we are hitting a snag. The majority (71%) do not want to see abortion legal in the third trimester, while at the same time, do not want to see an out right total ban. Kentucky is an excellent example of what we are facing, they did not pass banning abortion, yet they elected a majority of pro life congressmen. Add to that prolife does a terrible job at getting the message out and tend to let the liberals dictate that message. Ohio is an excellent example.


OK, and you think the democrats will go along with that? Like I said before, since Roe was turned back to the states, this is now an issue. Probably the only issue the democrats have. They can not run on education, public safety, the economy, the border, ETC. but they can run on the scared notion that republicans are taking away your rights. We do not need the republicans having meeting to discuss how to hide their views, we need them to discuss how they are going to fight this.

Again, in both those states, pro life candidates were elected. We also have Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, and the list is growing are states that successfully protected the un-born's life. they did pass laws restricting abortion. They also did a great job getting their message out.

Again, like it or not, the left, the media, the liberals, the fanatics, are going to make sure this will be one of the main issues in front of the people. We can not stop that. If our strategy is to ignore the issue, or to claim they are undecided, WE WILL LOSE. The party had better come up with an answer the people accept.


 

I'm not saying to completely avoid the topic of abortion.  I'm saying that Republicans would be wise,particularly in national elections, to not focus on abortion.

Quote from: ZenMode on August 16, 2023, 11:09:45 AMWhy people vote for the candidates they do is an ongoing mystery that every political party/candidate would love to solve.  There is rarely a singular issue that determines who a person votes for.  So, your question is basically impossible to answer.I'm not saying to completely avoid the topic of abortion.  I'm saying that Republicans would be wise,particularly in national elections, to not focus on abortion.

I don't think it would come up in the republican debates. But you can bet your bottom dollar when the republican debates the democrat it will come up. I hope the republican is ready to defend his belief.

After a year of fretting about President Biden's political standing and their electoral chances in 2024, Democrats are at a moment of high confidence as Republicans prepare for their first presidential debate on Wednesday.

They will be watching with bated breath in hopes that the Republican candidates embrace the likely-to-be-absent Donald J. Trump, defend him over his four criminal indictments, endorse national restrictions on abortion and — in the Democrats' dream scenario — call for cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

Even without Mr. Trump onstage, Democrats see the Republican White House hopefuls as avatars for what they describe as a party in thrall to its extreme elements. Nobody is rooting for the debate to go off the rails more than Democrats praying for Mr. Biden's re-election.

"All I want these people to do is say the same stuff they've been saying on the campaign trail on national TV," said Jim Messina, the campaign manager for President Barack Obama's 2012 re-election bid. "Please continue to double down on a six-week abortion ban. That would be wonderful. Thank you for doing this."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/us/politics/gop-republican-debate-democrats.html

Here ya go Zen, start at 38:23. He was in the Capitol on J6.

Former Capitol Police Officer Speaks Out About Jan. 6 Protest

We NEVER give into baby murder. Ever.