Author Topic: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.  (Read 5647 times)

Offline TboneAgain

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2013, 05:36:25 PM »
Absolutely true, and the reason is to keep the dollar solvent via trade in an oil dollar.
If, at this point we were to pull out and quit buying M/E oil, they would abandon the dollar in whole, leaving us stuck with a worthless buck.
The only reason the world is still linked to the dollar is solely based on oil.
Both party's put us in this mess. :cursing:

Even if we were to manage a state where our oil production, as just one example, was sufficient to supply all our needs, it wouldn't. Energy is an international market, and is unlikely to ever become anything else. It is simply cheaper to ship and sell Alaskan oil, for example, to Japan and China than it is to send it via the Panama Canal to the mega-refineries on our Gulf Coast.

In any case the best thing we can do is maximize our production of oil and other energy, but the effect is going to be rather incremental as long as we participate in international commodity markets. When Middle Eastern crude is selling for $115 in, say, Australia, and US refineries are offering $45, guess where the crude is going? Crikey, mate, we'll deliver the stuff in 'roo's pouches!
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Offline mdgiles

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2013, 12:55:45 PM »
Absolutely true, and the reason is to keep the dollar solvent via trade in an oil dollar.
If, at this point we were to pull out and quit buying M/E oil, they would abandon the dollar in whole, leaving us stuck with a worthless buck.
The only reason the world is still linked to the dollar is solely based on oil.
Both party's put us in this mess. :cursing:
The US has enough oil and gas to reduce the ME to the sand box full of savages it actually is, while strengthening our own economy and hence the dollar.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Online Solar

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2013, 02:13:01 PM »
The US has enough oil and gas to reduce the ME to the sand box full of savages it actually is, while strengthening our own economy and hence the dollar.
Absolutely correct!
But I was basing it on the socialists policy makers we have currently in office.

In an ideal world, we'd tell the M/E to screw themselves, and sell our oil at $30 per barrel, and lower if necessary, literally cutting OPEC off at the knees.

But the left won't let us and the GOP is in bed with them, so we're stuck laying at the mercy of a bunch of Muscums dictating what the world pays for oil.
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Offline TboneAgain

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2013, 07:21:07 PM »
Absolutely correct!
But I was basing it on the socialists policy makers we have currently in office.

In an ideal world, we'd tell the M/E to screw themselves, and sell our oil at $30 per barrel, and lower if necessary, literally cutting OPEC off at the knees.

But the left won't let us and the GOP is in bed with them, so we're stuck laying at the mercy of a bunch of Muscums dictating what the world pays for oil.

Well, there's just one little problem with that scenario. If somehow we managed to lower the price of American oil to $30, exploration, most drilling, and some production would stop tomorrow. Asking oil companies to take a 75% price cut from what they're getting now might just overwhelm their patriotism. Getting their cooperation would likely require nationalization Venezuela-style, and I don't think we want to go there.

Other than that little thing, I love the idea!  :tounge:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Online Solar

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2013, 06:50:17 AM »
Well, there's just one little problem with that scenario. If somehow we managed to lower the price of American oil to $30, exploration, most drilling, and some production would stop tomorrow. Asking oil companies to take a 75% price cut from what they're getting now might just overwhelm their patriotism. Getting their cooperation would likely require nationalization Venezuela-style, and I don't think we want to go there.

Other than that little thing, I love the idea!  :tounge:
That was the point, it was to manipulate the price of oil, just like OPEC has done at the other end of the spectrum.
Reality? Of course not, unless the powers that be, decide it's time to kill OPEC.

Kill OPEC, is that too much to ask? :laugh:
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Offline Egg

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2013, 12:59:02 PM »
What did the US get out of the whole thing?  By default, pretty much mastery of the planet.  Though 420,000 or so dead Americans is appalling, those deaths are peanuts compared to most nations who fought the war, or had the war fought on their soil.  Western Europe was devastated.  Eastern Europe was devastated and taken over by the Soviet Union, whose population and infrastructure was also devastated.  Where the war was fought in Asia and the Pacific, those nations were devastated. 

The US became the center of democracy, human creativity and dynamism, and free markets because there was no other nation that could.    Americans may look back with nostalgia at how we were the center of the universe during the '50s, but that is because were the only thriving industrial nation at the time to be that center. 

The entire reason there is global competition with the American worker today (you mention the Japanese auto industry, etc.) has to do with our victory in WWII, and our defense of freedom in so much of the globe after that victory. It's a good thing for humanity that we pushed and protected freedom abroad.  That so much of the world has embraced free market capitalism and industrialization has meant competition for the American worker, but it has also lifted countless people out of wretched poverty and has dramatically reduced wars and other forms of violence.  That's part of the American spoils too.   

Offline kalash

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2014, 11:36:28 PM »

Another reminder of the great gains we made since WWII is in the entertainment industry.
Results of the war? The most of the world's gold ended up in US, all US competitors in ruins, dollar became world currency... Not enough? Well, the ones who fought at war hardly could be blamed for what happen 60-7o years after the war.

Offline mdgiles

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Re: WORLD WAR TWO: The spoils of war.
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2014, 12:15:55 PM »
Well, there's just one little problem with that scenario. If somehow we managed to lower the price of American oil to $30, exploration, most drilling, and some production would stop tomorrow. Asking oil companies to take a 75% price cut from what they're getting now might just overwhelm their patriotism. Getting their cooperation would likely require nationalization Venezuela-style, and I don't think we want to go there.

Other than that little thing, I love the idea!  :tounge:
Ever hear how businesses will sometimes lower their prices, even when losing money, in order to drive a competitor out of business? With out oil money, the OPEC governments would no longer be able to pay off their people. When their people revolt - as usual - they will probably end up removing themselves from the oil market - at which point the prices will rise.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

 

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