Will USA go to war with Iran for Israel

Started by Libertarian, August 02, 2012, 07:30:55 AM

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Libertarian

Quote from: Solar on August 03, 2012, 02:42:33 PM
Why ruin a perfectly good indoctrinating brainwash of years in the making.
If he actually learned the truth, he'd have to look back at all that time spent swallowing lies, it ain't like finding out Santa wasn't real. He's based his entire political conviction on hating the Jooos, then to find out the problem is actually the Muscums fault, that's a lot to absorb in one setting. :biggrin:

Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.

Solar

Quote from: Libertarian on August 06, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.
Out of all the threads, and you respond to this one?

Try this one.
Quote from: Libertarian on August 02, 2012, 10:03:44 AM

I agree, the Six Day War was a one of the most decisive wars ever in history. However, Israel doesn't buy weapons from the US, they get free weapons paid by American taxpayers. Yes, they are not recognized by their neighbors, but 100 years ago Palestinians were in control and lived in modern day Israel, the Zionists had not colonized the region yet.
And my response was that you need to learn a little bit of history.
The answer is literally in the link., read it!
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago
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Ford289HiPo

Quote from: Libertarian on August 06, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.

You better start being critical. We do the same for Saudi, and then some. If I had my druthers, I would have invaded Saudi instead of Iraq. 
Do cannibals refuse to eat clowns because they taste funny?

mdgiles

Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 06, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
You better start being critical. We do the same for Saudi, and then some. If I had my druthers, I would have invaded Saudi instead of Iraq.
Not to mention Egypt.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Solar

Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 06, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
You better start being critical. We do the same for Saudi, and then some. If I had my druthers, I would have invaded Saudi instead of Iraq.
Bingo!!! That's where this radical movement started.
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Foreigner

You better don't.

The Iranians are pretty proud people, many of the younger, educated ones even pretty much agreeing on western values.

If you'd attack them, it would cost billions and billions and nobody would be winning anything, I think.

In my opinion America needs to be a role model for the world again, not some angry powerhouse. Nothing against hard power, but there are times where soft power just works better and costs less.

Seriously, I'm worried seeing America NOT being "#1" in more and more categories, but Americans seeming to fail to notice that. Don't get me wrong, I know what's still right with the US, to me it's the greatest experiment in the history of mankind and I think its foundations are brilliant. I love it and I'll be moving to the US at some point because I can't help but wanting to. But that's not how the majority of the world sees the US today, you know?

You know the sympathy of under-dogs who are right. So maybe you should play that card more than the "we're the power house and we could kick your a**" card. But that's just my opinion.

mdgiles

Quote from: Foreigner on August 22, 2012, 07:28:40 PM
You better don't.

The Iranians are pretty proud people, many of the younger, educated ones even pretty much agreeing on western values.

If you'd attack them, it would cost billions and billions and nobody would be winning anything, I think.

In my opinion America needs to be a role model for the world again, not some angry powerhouse. Nothing against hard power, but there are times where soft power just works better and costs less.

Seriously, I'm worried seeing America NOT being "#1" in more and more categories, but Americans seeming to fail to notice that. Don't get me wrong, I know what's still right with the US, to me it's the greatest experiment in the history of mankind and I think its foundations are brilliant. I love it and I'll be moving to the US at some point because I can't help but wanting to. But that's not how the majority of the world sees the US today, you know?

You know the sympathy of under-dogs who are right. So maybe you should play that card more than the "we're the power house and we could kick your a**" card. But that's just my opinion.
The Iranian people hate their leadership. Why do you think they would be willing to die for them? And pride is all well and good; but it doesn't do squat for you when the other guy has better equipment and training. The Japanese in WW2 were proud. How did that turn out again?
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Ford289HiPo

Quote from: mdgiles on August 23, 2012, 12:08:04 PM
The Iranian people hate their leadership. Why do you think they would be willing to die for them?

The young Iranians see and want western culture. They want the music, the TV shows, the clothes, everything which we take for granted, but is denied to them by some old smelly mullahs who continually try to shove the Koran down their throats. OTOH - they are also very nationalistic. They wouldn't hesitate to take up arms against an invader.

Yeah, we may have better equipment, but Iran is 3x the size of Iraq, and look at the problems we had there.
Do cannibals refuse to eat clowns because they taste funny?

tbone0106

Quote from: Libertarian on August 06, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.

That's how you decide whom to criticize? Are you serious? You criticize anyone/everyone who receives US aid, for that reason alone?

Boy, that's deep.  :glare:

Foreigner

#24
Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 23, 2012, 07:55:06 PM
The young Iranians see and want western culture. They want the music, the TV shows, the clothes, everything which we take for granted, but is denied to them by some old smelly mullahs who continually try to shove the Koran down their throats. OTOH - they are also very nationalistic. They wouldn't hesitate to take up arms against an invader.

Yeah, we may have better equipment, but Iran is 3x the size of Iraq, and look at the problems we had there.

Exactly. Glad that there are people here who aren't completely nuts.


Quote from: mdgiles on August 23, 2012, 12:08:04 PM
The Iranian people hate their leadership. Why do you think they would be willing to die for them? And pride is all well and good; but it doesn't do squat for you when the other guy has better equipment and training. The Japanese in WW2 were proud. How did that turn out again?

Most guys here hate Obama. What do you think they would do if the freaking Iranians would invade the U.S.?

For Liberty

Quote from: Foreigner on August 30, 2012, 09:15:36 PM
Exactly. Glad that there are people here who aren't completely nuts.


Most guys here hate Obama. What do you think they would do if the freaking Iranians would invade the U.S.?

Comparison does not stick. We dont want anything as an American people that Iranians offer. No matter who our president is, we do not share Iranian ideals and that would bring us together int he common defense.

Foreigner

Quote from: For Liberty on August 30, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
Comparison does not stick. We dont want anything as an American people that Iranians offer. No matter who our president is, we do not share Iranian ideals and that would bring us together int he common defense.

If you think there wouldn't be a common defense, try and attack Iran. You're gonna be surprised how irrational people can be and how common their defense would be.

mdgiles

Quote from: Foreigner on August 30, 2012, 11:01:53 PM
If you think there wouldn't be a common defense, try and attack Iran. You're gonna be surprised how irrational people can be and how common their defense would be.
Why do you assume that some one would fight to support a regime they hate, and against people come to liberate you from that regime.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Ford289HiPo

Quote from: mdgiles on August 31, 2012, 10:11:09 AM
Why do you assume that some one would fight to support a regime they hate, and against people come to liberate you from that regime.

That's where their nationalism comes in. Yes, they hate the mullahs. The Iranians are also very nationalistic, and they have the history to prove it.
We can support their anti-government movements, but the moment we drop one bomb on Iranian soil, the moment one of their relatives dies by an American hand, the ME will explode. Iran is not Iraq. Iran does have the means to make an invasion a very expensive exercise, more-so than Iraq ever did.
Do cannibals refuse to eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dapplin

An extended military strikes by the U.S. alone or in concert with Israel could destroy or severely damage the six most important nuclear facilities in Iran.  An Israeli attack, would delay the operation by two years, while more sophisticated U.S. capabilities would take it out for up to four years. To prevent the Iranians from restarting, the U.S. would need to conduct a significantly expanded air and sea war over a prolonged period of time, likely several years.

If the goal is regime change, it would probably require the use of ground forces to occupy Iran. That would mean a commitment of resources and personnel greater than what the U.S. has expended over the last 10 years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.

Whatever course is chosen, most Intel experts conclude an attack on Iran would ensure retaliation. They anticipate efforts to close the Strait of Hormuz for days or weeks, with global economic implications, and asymmetrical attacks using surrogates such as Hezbollah on U.S. facilities in the region and beyond. Conceivably, it could set off a regional war, as the "spin" would be seen as an attack on Islam and not specifically that of a rogue nation.

Finally, I agree with many of the posts which have concluded strong nationalism, combined with a high degree of fanaticism. However, regardless of the risks involved, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad does not recognize Israel as a sovereign state and has vowed that Israel "will disappear."

The Answer: crippling economic sanctions, credible threat of military action, and a policy of internal regime change can prevent Iran from actually developing a nuclear weapon or having a nuclear weapons capability; operating together, they can make actual military action unnecessary by either Jerusalem or Washington.

On the current trajectory, without U.S. or Israeli military action or regime change from within, Iran will likely obtain nuclear weapons. It will be emboldened, as will its terrorist proxies. A cascade of proliferation in one of the world's most unstable regions will likely follow. U.S. interests will be severely undermined.