Will Israel make a preemptive strike against Iranian nuclear sites?

Started by LibDave, October 24, 2013, 03:24:29 AM

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mdgiles

Quote from: Solar on December 16, 2013, 08:13:53 AM
Explain how you know this to be fact, because by all accounts, Israel has the capability to level Iran, and yes, we gave them bunker busters.
So without proof, the rest of your post is pure speculation and opinion.
All we had to do was give Israel ONE bunker buster. In six months they'll be making their own.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

walkstall

Quote from: mdgiles on December 16, 2013, 08:18:42 AM
All we had to do was give Israel ONE bunker buster. In six months they'll be making their own.

I personally don't think it would take that long.  when Israel has decided to do something they don't stand around.
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Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: mdgiles on December 16, 2013, 08:18:42 AM
All we had to do was give Israel ONE bunker buster. In six months they'll be making their own.
And that we did, and Israel acted.
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Egg

Quote from: Solar on December 14, 2013, 08:25:26 AM
Who said anything about a ground invasion? :biggrin:

I don't see how any nation, Israel or the United States, could be able to ge the job done with only air power.  The outspoken retired IDF generals have made that pretty plain, as well as the US generals.  If you're suggesting a pre-emptive nuclear attack, expect the rates of cancer deaths to soar in Israel after such an attack. 

Solar

Quote from: Egg on December 16, 2013, 08:44:35 AM
I don't see how any nation, Israel or the United States, could be able to ge the job done with only air power.  The outspoken retired IDF generals have made that pretty plain, as well as the US generals.  If you're suggesting a pre-emptive nuclear attack, expect the rates of cancer deaths to soar in Israel after such an attack.
Why would you assume Israel would want to occupy their land?
Taking out Iran's air force could be done in short time along with their air defenses and in no time, crippling Iran's ability to protect itself.
You give way to much credibility to the Iranians military, a military supported by outdated Russian tech.
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Egg

I'm not saying Israel would want to occupy Iran, but that a land invasion would be needed to ensure that they have in fact destroyed their nuclear weapons program.  Air power alone would not do the job. 

mdgiles

Quote from: Egg on December 17, 2013, 08:31:35 AM
I'm not saying Israel would want to occupy Iran, but that a land invasion would be needed to ensure that they have in fact destroyed their nuclear weapons program.  Air power alone would not do the job.
Why not? You have heard of smart weapons haven't you. Is Iran rich enough to keep rebuilding the facilities that the Israelis destroy? So who are the going to get the money from?
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

walkstall

Quote from: mdgiles on December 17, 2013, 11:38:05 AM
Why not? You have heard of smart weapons haven't you. Is Iran rich enough to keep rebuilding the facilities that the Israelis destroy? So who are the going to get the money from?

b o for the next 3 years.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

TboneAgain

Quote from: Solar on December 17, 2013, 06:14:34 AM
Why would you assume Israel would want to occupy their land?
Taking out Iran's air force could be done in short time along with their air defenses and in no time, crippling Iran's ability to protect itself.
You give way to much credibility to the Iranians military, a military supported by outdated Russian tech.

Their military tech is indeed largely outdated, but I wouldn't characterize it as "Russian," or even mostly Russian. With the exception of its tank fleet, in which Russian T-72s have dominated the ranks, the Iranian military fields hardware obtained from many other sources, including most significantly the US, obtained pre-1979. Iran's air force depends on American-made F-14s, F-5s, and F-4s (roughly 200 planes total) to an extent far greater than it does on the few MiG-29s (40 planes) in its inventory. In recent years, Iran has begun purchasing military hardware from China, as well as updating and maintaining its inventory of older -- but still quite effective -- American hardware using Chinese-made parts. Iran is also developing a domestic arms manufacturing complex, actually turning out its own front-line tanks as intended replacements for the aging Soviet hardware. (/nitpick)

Nevertheless, I would agree that Iran would be quickly and decisively defeated in a conflict with any likely enemy in the region, especially the US or Israel. If Israel was truly serious, the conflict would be over in a week or less.
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Solar

Quote from: TboneAgain on December 17, 2013, 12:13:24 PM
Their military tech is indeed largely outdated, but I wouldn't characterize it as "Russian," or even mostly Russian. With the exception of its tank fleet, in which Russian T-72s have dominated the ranks, the Iranian military fields hardware obtained from many other sources, including most significantly the US, obtained pre-1979. Iran's air force depends on American-made F-14s, F-5s, and F-4s (roughly 200 planes total) to an extent far greater than it does on the few MiG-29s (40 planes) in its inventory. In recent years, Iran has begun purchasing military hardware from China, as well as updating and maintaining its inventory of older -- but still quite effective -- American hardware using Chinese-made parts. Iran is also developing a domestic arms manufacturing complex, actually turning out its own front-line tanks as intended replacements for the aging Soviet hardware. (/nitpick)

Nevertheless, I would agree that Iran would be quickly and decisively defeated in a conflict with any likely enemy in the region, especially the US or Israel. If Israel was truly serious, the conflict would be over in a week or less.
Yeah, 24 hrs 90% complete, followup by 72 hour end. Iran would be literally devastated and ripe for the picking from their other enemies.
Something I'm sure they've considered.
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Egg

Quote from: mdgiles on December 17, 2013, 11:38:05 AM
Why not? You have heard of smart weapons haven't you. Is Iran rich enough to keep rebuilding the facilities that the Israelis destroy? So who are the going to get the money from?

Yes, I have heard of smart weapons.  And I've heard of bunker busters.  But we're not talking about Iraq's or Syria's old nuclear weapons sites, but ones buried far underground. 

Even the top of the line US bunker busters can only reach so far underground, and there are at least two sites (Fordor and another one whose name escapes me) which are too far underground for them to reach. Further, there is a high likelihood that there are other sites that are simply not known, and it would take a ground force to find and destroy them.

I would not be surprised if the IDF went after those sites it can attack, and good for them.  But it won't completely end the crisis and would precipitate a very serious regional war.     


Mountainshield

Saudi Arabia hates Iran more than the Israelis do, I seriously doubt Saudia Arabia would let Iran start a new regional conflict against Israel in which they would emerge stronger and more powerful. Even though a direct confrontation or intervention by Saudi Arabia is out of the question they would be foolish to not use their diplomatic power in the region to keep other states from joining the war on Iran's side. If it's a 1vs1 war then Israel would win easy simply because they are fighting for their survival whereas Iranian people are fighting at the behest of their Mullah overlords to the detriment of their own standard of living and indeed life. Only the revolutionary guard would dance their way across the minefields, the citizenry I predict/hope would rise up again and seize the opportunity to destroy what should never have come to pass in 1979.

Solar

Quote from: Mountainshield on December 18, 2013, 07:17:01 AM
Saudi Arabia hates Iran more than the Israelis do, I seriously doubt Saudia Arabia would let Iran start a new regional conflict against Israel in which they would emerge stronger and more powerful. Even though a direct confrontation or intervention by Saudi Arabia is out of the question they would be foolish to not use their diplomatic power in the region to keep other states from joining the war on Iran's side. If it's a 1vs1 war then Israel would win easy simply because they are fighting for their survival whereas Iranian people are fighting at the behest of their Mullah overlords to the detriment of their own standard of living and indeed life. Only the revolutionary guard would dance their way across the minefields, the citizenry I predict/hope would rise up again and seize the opportunity to destroy what should never have come to pass in 1979.
Very true, enemies make strange bedfellows.

Report: "Israel and Saudi Arabia will work together in case of an Iran attack"
Mossad agents met with senior level Saudi officials to formulate a joint attack on Iran, in case the talks between the world powers and Iran fail, the Sunday Times reported. "The Saudis are decisive in confronting Iran and the Israelis are ready to provide the help they need," a senior level official told the newspaper.
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/middle-east/israel-and-the-middle-east/report-%E2%80%9Cisrael-and-saudi-arabia-will-work-together-in-case-of-an-iran-attack%E2%80%9D-2333
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Mountainshield

Quote from: Solar on December 18, 2013, 07:48:47 AM
Very true, enemies make strange bedfellows.

Report: "Israel and Saudi Arabia will work together in case of an Iran attack"
Mossad agents met with senior level Saudi officials to formulate a joint attack on Iran, in case the talks between the world powers and Iran fail, the Sunday Times reported. "The Saudis are decisive in confronting Iran and the Israelis are ready to provide the help they need," a senior level official told the newspaper.
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/middle-east/israel-and-the-middle-east/report-%E2%80%9Cisrael-and-saudi-arabia-will-work-together-in-case-of-an-iran-attack%E2%80%9D-2333

This forum really need a "like" or "agree" button for members.

Egg

Saudi Arabia and Israel fighting on the same side of a war together.  Who'da thunk?