Author Topic: War Powers Resolution  (Read 4220 times)

Offline AlfredDrake

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War Powers Resolution
« on: December 13, 2014, 11:43:24 AM »
I'm sure you guys have been all through this, but I was curious.  Is the War Powers Resolution of 1973 constitutional?

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2014, 11:51:30 AM »
I'm sure you guys have been all through this, but I was curious.  Is the War Powers Resolution of 1973 constitutional?

What do you think about it?
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Offline AlfredDrake

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2014, 12:11:13 PM »
What do you think about it?

I think that congress was given the power to declare war and they should do it as soon as possible after it becomes necessary, which is probably a lot sooner than 60 days.  And if they vote for a draft, their children should be the first to go.  Is it constitutional?  I don't know from a legal standpoint, but it seems that they found a convenient way to shirk their responsibility.

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 01:16:39 PM »
I think that congress was given the power to declare war and they should do it as soon as possible after it becomes necessary, which is probably a lot sooner than 60 days.  And if they vote for a draft, their children should be the first to go.  Is it constitutional?  I don't know from a legal standpoint, but it seems that they found a convenient way to shirk their responsibility.

I was of military age during the Vietnam war. The "lottery" came after I had graduated from college. I was never called for a physical as I had a student deferment and there were plenty of non college 18 year olds in my draft board. With that as a background, I am not in favor of a draft if volunteers are sufficient to staff our military. I think it is better to have folks who desire to serve rather than those who do not in many cases.

As far as the war powers I think congress should be consulted and decide to declare war, except when circumstances require immediate action such as Pearl Harbor and 9/11. I feel strongly congress should declare war on Islamic terrorists. There are lawyers smart enough to word the declaration as I don't know of any wording in our Constitution that requires it be a country.
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Online Solar

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 01:33:27 PM »
I think that congress was given the power to declare war and they should do it as soon as possible after it becomes necessary, which is probably a lot sooner than 60 days.  And if they vote for a draft, their children should be the first to go.  Is it constitutional?  I don't know from a legal standpoint, but it seems that they found a convenient way to shirk their responsibility.
As one who served with draftees, I can assure you a draft is the fastest way to kill morale in the military.
Believe me, there were people in my platoon that would outwardly sabotage morale every possible (misery loves company) so they create it.
People of like mind in any occupation are more likely to share ideals and goals, but force an integration of opposing views, such as anti-American, anti-war, or simply anti-killing, and you have chaos within the ranks.
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Darth Fife

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 02:56:26 PM »
I'm sure you guys have been all through this, but I was curious.  Is the War Powers Resolution of 1973 constitutional?

It is if no one challenges it!

You see, that is the thing about laws. If no one enforces them, they are irrelevant.

FWIW, the United States has only formally declared war 5 (five) times in the past 200 + years.

The War of 1812

The Mexican - American War (1846)

The Spanish - American War (1898)

World War I (1917)

World War II (1941)

Note that our bloodiest war - the Civil War - was never declared by Congress. There were several reasons for this but the over riding reason was that if the U.S. declared war on the C.S.A. it would be giving tacit admission that it was, in fact, a separate country. It was Mr Lincoln's contention that the Southern States were still part of the Union - therefore the U.S. couldn't declare war on itself.



Offline supsalemgr

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 04:26:39 AM »
Can congress initiate a declaration of war or does the initial request have to come from the president? I am of the opinion we should declare war on Islamic terrorists.
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Online Solar

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 05:25:37 AM »
Can congress initiate a declaration of war or does the initial request have to come from the president? I am of the opinion we should declare war on Islamic terrorists.
Wonder how that would conflict with the First Amendment?
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Darth Fife

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 08:45:39 AM »
Can congress initiate a declaration of war or does the initial request have to come from the president? I am of the opinion we should declare war on Islamic terrorists.

I believe they can, but I don't think there is a president who would want to be caught behind the power curve in a situation like that.

To declare war on something, you have to be able to readily identify it. While some elements of Radical Islam are easily identifiable, others are not.

Then again, why declare war on Radical Islam and not, say, The Irish Republican Army - both use terroristic tactics and both have killed innocent Americans?


Offline supsalemgr

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 09:02:57 AM »
I believe they can, but I don't think there is a president who would want to be caught behind the power curve in a situation like that.

To declare war on something, you have to be able to readily identify it. While some elements of Radical Islam are easily identifiable, others are not.

Then again, why declare war on Radical Islam and not, say, The Irish Republican Army - both use terroristic tactics and both have killed innocent Americans?

On January 12, 2015 I believe radical Islam is more of a threat than the IRA. I tend to agree with you presidents would not like to behind the curve on declaration of war. However, I am not sure that would apply to Obama.
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Online Solar

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 09:08:54 AM »
I believe they can, but I don't think there is a president who would want to be caught behind the power curve in a situation like that.

To declare war on something, you have to be able to readily identify it. While some elements of Radical Islam are easily identifiable, others are not.

Then again, why declare war on Radical Islam and not, say, The Irish Republican Army - both use terroristic tactics and both have killed innocent Americans?
The IRA disbanded it's terrorist tactics in 2006.
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Offline red_dirt

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 05:00:01 PM »

       I haven't given up on the Pope declaring a holy war against Jihad. He could reactivate the Roman army and all we would have to do would be to get to Italy to enlist. I don't see any other way around the 6th Commandment.
       My hope was that Benedict would do it. But I think the American left saw it coming and somehow arranged to dismiss him. The American left was hell on Pope Benedict.  So they fished down into South America and came up with the Jesuit Francis who with one hand is going to wag his finger at us, with the other wave in 10 or 20 million faithful illiterates from Honduras, Nicaragua, and Paraguay to give that Democratic machine the boost it's been  looking for.
        Terrorists are playing the loophole. Everyone knows they are state sponsored with the support of 85% willing to express it.  Yet, they keep kicking this game that they are black sheep. Under a declaration, those free riders become enemy noncombatants  and the free ride is over.
       

Darth Fife

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2015, 07:33:41 PM »
The IRA disbanded it's terrorist tactics in 2006.

I used the IRA simply as an example to show the difficulty in declaring "war" on a non-state entity. I was looking for a radical organization that employed terrorism to achieve its stated goals that wasn't based on Islam and had a hard time coming up with one!


zewazir

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 07:58:36 PM »
In reply to the original question, yes, the War Powers Act is technically unconstitutional. It was just prior to the official start of the Civil War when President Lincoln deployed elements of the U.S. Navy to blockade Southern ports. This action was challenged in the Supreme Court under the claim that the blockade was an act of war, and only Congress can declare war.  In simplified terms, SCOTUS handed down the decision that there is a defined difference between declaring war, which is a political act, and MAKING war, which is a military act. The decision stated that the CinC has the authority to deploy the military in the manner the CinC believes is necessary for national security without congressional oversite of such actions.

This decision has been challenged unsuccessfully several times, three of which challenges occurred during the Vietnam War, and once during the Korean War, both of which were conducted without anything even approaching congressional agreement, let alone an actual declaration of war.

In response to the Vietnam War, the War Powers Act was passed. Since then, no president has taken any action to challenge it. The few instances in which it might have been challenged, the acting president either concluded their action prior to the time limit, or obtained congressional approval for the military action.

My personal opinion, SCOTUS got it wrong by separating the use of military action from the political action of declaring war.  It gives the presidency way too much power, and we have been particularly lucky that no president has abused the power any worse than occurred in Vietnam. I would like to see the War Powers Act challenged so that SCOTUS can have the opportunity to reverse an age-old mistake.

Offline red_dirt

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Re: War Powers Resolution
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2015, 04:21:44 PM »

         Just so I understand this. One nation can send forces into another one's territory,
harass, humiliate, murder, demoralize and disrupt the population and workings of the
nation, and, as long as the perps claim free lance status, that nation from which they
came is without guilt.  Ohhh-kaaay.

 

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