Turkey was allowed into NATO to help curb the expansion of communism and did a fine job at that, but we have a new enemy, Muscums, Sharia, a false religion and Turkey is now moving to institute Sharia and seizing Christian churches.
We all know what this means for Christians in Turkey, and the results will most definitely end in horror.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDD1MSPUwAAFT4y.jpg)
The Turkish-Armenian daily Agos reports that in 2012 the province of Mardin established a "liquidation committee," which started to expropriate and redistribute the property of churches and other Christian institutions whose legal charters had expired. The seizures and liquidations are ongoing, and the Syriac community has been especially targeted.
The Mor Gabriel Monastery Foundation appealed to the decision, but the liquidation committee rejected the appeal in May. Inquiries by the foundation revealed dozens of churches and monasteries had been transferred to the state treasury first and then allocated to the Diyanet. And the cemeteries have been transferred to the Metropolitan Municipality of Mardin.
The church seizures are occurring against the backdrop of Erdogan's policy of turning Turkey back to its Shariah-compliant Ottoman roots. The Hagia Sofia, one of the most famous churches in the world, is in the process of being converted to a mosque.
The Hagia Sofia was constructed during the Byzantine Empire in its capital of Constantinople, modern-day Istanbul.
The great church was turned into a mosque in 1453 after the Muslim Turks conquered Constantinople and subjugated the surviving Christian inhabitants. Following the defeat of the Ottoman empire in World War I, the new leader of the secular state of Turkey, Kemal Ataturk, in 1935 put a stop to Islamic prayers in Hagia Sophia and had it converted into a museum.
The maintenance of some of the seized churches and monasteries are being provided by the Mor Gabriel Monastery Foundation, and they are opened to worship on certain days. Similarly, the cemeteries are still being used by the Syriac community, who are allowed to visit them and perform burials, but they are no longer owned by the church.
Now the world's oldest Syriac Christian monastery is reportedly in danger of being expropriated by the state.
http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/turkish-dictator-removes-mask-in-seizure-of-50-churches/
Quote from: Solar on June 30, 2017, 08:40:35 AM
Turkey was allowed into NATO to help curb the expansion of communism and did a fine job at that, but we have a new enemy, Muscums, Sharia, a false religion and Turkey is now moving to institute Sharia and seizing Christian churches.
We all know what this means for Christians in Turkey, and the results will most definitely end in horror.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDD1MSPUwAAFT4y.jpg)
The Turkish-Armenian daily Agos reports that in 2012 the province of Mardin established a "liquidation committee," which started to expropriate and redistribute the property of churches and other Christian institutions whose legal charters had expired. The seizures and liquidations are ongoing, and the Syriac community has been especially targeted.
The Mor Gabriel Monastery Foundation appealed to the decision, but the liquidation committee rejected the appeal in May. Inquiries by the foundation revealed dozens of churches and monasteries had been transferred to the state treasury first and then allocated to the Diyanet. And the cemeteries have been transferred to the Metropolitan Municipality of Mardin.
The church seizures are occurring against the backdrop of Erdogan's policy of turning Turkey back to its Shariah-compliant Ottoman roots. The Hagia Sofia, one of the most famous churches in the world, is in the process of being converted to a mosque.
The Hagia Sofia was constructed during the Byzantine Empire in its capital of Constantinople, modern-day Istanbul.
The great church was turned into a mosque in 1453 after the Muslim Turks conquered Constantinople and subjugated the surviving Christian inhabitants. Following the defeat of the Ottoman empire in World War I, the new leader of the secular state of Turkey, Kemal Ataturk, in 1935 put a stop to Islamic prayers in Hagia Sophia and had it converted into a museum.
The maintenance of some of the seized churches and monasteries are being provided by the Mor Gabriel Monastery Foundation, and they are opened to worship on certain days. Similarly, the cemeteries are still being used by the Syriac community, who are allowed to visit them and perform burials, but they are no longer owned by the church.
Now the world's oldest Syriac Christian monastery is reportedly in danger of being expropriated by the state.
http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/turkish-dictator-removes-mask-in-seizure-of-50-churches/
Another reason was Turkey has been an enemy of Russia for centuries. At the time Turkey was evolving into a more secular country. Now, with the embrace of Sharia law the country is not aligned with the NATO mission. However, most the European countries do not have the balls to kick them out.
Rather than expelling Turkey from NATO, an embarrassingly enfeebled entity, largely engaged in various types of social work, for which we foot the bill; let me suggest a better alternative.
As the Ottoman Empire collapsed at the end of the Great War, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, their commander at the Battle of Gallipoli; who had inflicted some 250,000 casualties on the Anglo-French Invaders; emerged to create the Republic of Turkey.
To his everlasting credit, his first act was to forcibly abolish the Caliphate and secularize Turkey, allowing its people to emerge from centuries of blinding Ottoman darkness and enter modernity; while instilling fear among the Mullah class.
His statues which line the Bosporus are mute testament to his revered memory among the Turkish people.
Erdogan represents Turkey's dark, ignorant and criminal past embedded w/atrocities such as the Holocaust of its Armenian Christians.
Turkey's salvation lies in it's military, our staunch ally during the Korean War, which MacArthur often noted.
So let us strongly support their military and encourage the elimination of Erdogan, by any and all means necessary.
As Lord Palmerston, observed';"Great nations have neither allies nor friends; they merely have interests"!!!
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 16, 2017, 02:14:14 PM
Rather than expelling Turkey from NATO, an embarrassingly enfeebled entity, largely engaged in various types of social work, for which we foot the bill; let me suggest a better alternative.
As the Ottoman Empire collapsed at the end of the Great War, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, their commander at the Battle of Gallipoli; who had inflicted some 250,000 casualties on the Anglo-French Invaders; emerged to create the Republic of Turkey.
To his everlasting credit, his first act was to forcibly abolish the Caliphate and secularize Turkey, allowing its people to emerge from centuries of blinding Ottoman darkness and enter modernity; while instilling fear among the Mullah class.
His statues which line the Bosporus are mute testament to his revered memory among the Turkish people.
Erdogan represents Turkey's dark, ignorant and criminal past embedded w/atrocities such as the Holocaust of its Armenian Christians.
Turkey's salvation lies in it's military, our staunch ally during the Korean War, which MacArthur often noted.
So let us strongly support their military and encourage the elimination of Erdogan, by any and all means necessary.
As Lord Palmerston, observed';"Great nations have neither allies nor friends; they merely have interests"!!!
I assume you have a better dictator in mind for us to prop up?
Over the past century when their politicians have tried to move Turkey either to the left or back into the past; its military has stepped in and ruled.
Kicking them out of NATO, will kick us out of important air and naval facilities there, exposing the southeastern flank of Europe while giving Russia a free hand in Anatolia and the Levant.
Strategically, this is feel good nonsense.
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 16, 2017, 06:19:50 PM
Over the past century when their politicians have tried to move Turkey either to the left or back into the past; its military has stepped in and ruled.
Kicking them out of NATO, will kick us out of important air and naval facilities there, exposing the southeastern flank of Europe while giving Russia a free hand in Anatolia and the Levant.
Strategically, this is feel good nonsense.
You still haven't answered the question, what dictator would you install?
Solar,
It would be a Junta of a dozen or so military officers, as has occurred several times this past century; a condition the Turkish people are familiar w/and accept.
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 16, 2017, 08:43:53 PM
Solar,
It would be a Junta of a dozen or so military officers, as has occurred several times this past century; a condition the Turkish people are familiar w/and accept.
And all backed by the CIA. You don't think these things happen on their own, do ya?
This is Russia we're dealing with, either we install our puppet, or they do, it really is that simple.
So what dictator do you suggest we replace him with?
He's a radical Muscum, he can't remain in power and hold a key position in NATO. We're at war with Islum, are you denying that?
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 16, 2017, 02:14:14 PM
So let us strongly support their military and encourage the elimination of Erdogan, by any and all means necessary.
From what I have learned, the military coup against Erdogan was organized by Turkish officers of Balkan origin, mostly Albanian and Bosnian, because they were dissatisfied with his politics in the Balkans, they wanted to establish a more Islamist regime. And the story how Erdogan was saved is a bit hilarious. The Russians saw on their spy satellite photos the movements of the Turkish army near the Syrian border, so they asked the Turks were they preparing some military operation against Syria. But they were not, and so they figured out it was a coup going on, and they moved Erdogan to a safe space in the last moment. Turkish military is probably secular in most part, but there are some Islamist officers for sure.
Erdogan should be arrested and tried for kidnapping thousands of people from Yugoslavia during the civil war of 1990s, mostly young girls, to kill them and harvest their organs. That is how he became a millionaire, and collected the money to start his political career.
Milos, my assertion was direct and simple.
Because of the reputation of Atatürk, modern Turkey, unlike the rest of the Muslim world; has far greater loyalty to its military than to Islam.
As such, I suggest we cultivate this loyalty and encourage a coup/elimination of Erdogan; a Trotsky clone.
To me, this makes a lot more sense than severing Turkey from NATO.
That was all.
Well, I am not sure about the reputation of Atatürk in modern-day Turkey. Erdogan is a radical Islamist, and he has a widespread support by the Turkish people. But Turkey is a permanent finger in the eye to the Christian world and continental Europe, no matter of the nature of their government. Turkey was founded as a Muslim empire to replace the Christian Eastern Roman Empire. Asia Minor was Christian before the Turks came from Central Asia to conquer it in the name of Islam. The same was with the Middle East, Egypt, and North Africa, they were all Christian, before the Muslim Arabs, and later Turks, came to conquer them in the name of Islam. And the Muslims now dare to complain about the Crusades and about Israel.
But the situation with Turkey is like this, and it should have been well known by everyone so far. Since the 19th century, Russia has been trying to destroy Turkey, in order to liberate Constantinople from Muslim hands, and also to gain entrance to the Mediterranean Sea. Britain wanted to remain the main power in the world seas, and so they begun supporting Turkey against Russia. The culmination of this confrontation was the Crimean War of 1853-1856. NATO has inherited the British politics towards Turkey, Turkey is the key country for NATO to prevent Russian expansion to the Mediterranean Sea. And if you want to protect the interests of NATO, then you are absolutely right that NATO must keep Turkey. But, this way, NATO is confronting the entire Christian world, because there will be no true peace with Turkey at least until the ancient Christian cities of Constantinople and Antioch are liberated and in Christian hands again. Now, I am not sure if Solar considered all of these facts when he demanded Turkey out of NATO, lol.
Quote from: milos on July 18, 2017, 02:53:19 AM
Well, I am not sure about the reputation of Atatürk in modern-day Turkey. Erdogan is a radical Islamist, and he has a widespread support by the Turkish people. But Turkey is a permanent finger in the eye to the Christian world and continental Europe, no matter of the nature of their government. Turkey was founded as a Muslim empire to replace the Christian Eastern Roman Empire. Asia Minor was Christian before the Turks came from Central Asia to conquer it in the name of Islam. The same was with the Middle East, Egypt, and North Africa, they were all Christian, before the Muslim Arabs, and later Turks, came to conquer them in the name of Islam. And the Muslims now dare to complain about the Crusades and about Israel.
But the situation with Turkey is like this, and it should have been well known by everyone so far. Since the 19th century, Russia has been trying to destroy Turkey, in order to liberate Constantinople from Muslim hands, and also to gain entrance to the Mediterranean Sea. Britain wanted to remain the main power in the world seas, and so they begun supporting Turkey against Russia. The culmination of this confrontation was the Crimean War of 1853-1856. NATO has inherited the British politics towards Turkey, Turkey is the key country for NATO to prevent Russian expansion to the Mediterranean Sea. And if you want to protect the interests of NATO, then you are absolutely right that NATO must keep Turkey. But, this way, NATO is confronting the entire Christian world, because there will be no true peace with Turkey at least until the ancient Christian cities of Constantinople and Antioch are liberated and in Christian hands again. Now, I am not sure if Solar considered all of these facts when he demanded Turkey out of NATO, lol.
There is no question Turkey was invited to join NATO for one reason. They hate the Russians and, as you state, it was a barrier to Russia with a path to the Mediterranean Sea. At the time, it made sense as Turkey had become more of a secular country. Now, Turkey has returned to its Muslim roots. That philosophy is totally opposite of NATO goals. Hence, we have the dilemma we have in 2017.
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 17, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
Milos, my assertion was direct and simple.
Because of the reputation of Atatürk, modern Turkey, unlike the rest of the Muslim world; has far greater loyalty to its military than to Islam.
As such, I suggest we cultivate this loyalty and encourage a coup/elimination of Erdogan; a Trotsky clone.
To me, this makes a lot more sense than severing Turkey from NATO.
That was all.
It would appear that current geopolitical motivations may outdate your preconceived notions when it comes to ragheads.
I'm with Bolton on this one, screw Turkey, we don't need them, isolate them, let Ukraine and Georgia join, this further tightens the screws on Russia, allowing us more bargaining power where they are concerned.
I ask again, who, or what will you replace the current dictator with?
These are Muscums, they are in the process of Jihad on Christianity, do you need more proof of their intentions?
Supe w/respect.
A demurral from someone who has spent considerable time in that part of the world; most recently, Ankara.
The Anatolians have not returned to their Muslim roots, which are Greek rather than Turkish.
The average man in the street and the countryside is agnostic about Islam, since Ataturk. Reality!
Erdogan's impetus and power derives from the Establishment (their media, their political class and the corporate types who suck off their government teat.) Sound familiar???
All I'm asserting is that the Turkish Military is our key to success here.
An ageless Arabic expression asserts that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Had we heeded that wise adage before the Iraq War we would never have overthrown Saddam Hussein, despite his pustules, sores and warts.
He was the mortal enemy of Khomeini of Iran, against whom he waged an 8 year war, ending in stalemate.
But Bush was POTUS, giving new meaning to the descriptive, schmuck; a man infinitely too stupid for words.
Hopefully we will seize the moment this time, rather than again embarrassing ourselves w/another asinine and counter-productive action.
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 18, 2017, 09:08:27 PM
Supe w/respect.
A demurral from someone who has spent considerable time in that part of the world; most recently, Ankara.
The Anatolians have not returned to their Muslim roots, which are Greek rather than Turkish.
The average man in the street and the countryside is agnostic about Islam, since Ataturk. Reality!
Erdogan's impetus and power derives from the Establishment (their media, their political class and the corporate types who suck off their government teat.) Sound familiar???
All I'm asserting is that the Turkish Military is our key to success here.
An ageless Arabic expression asserts that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Had we heeded that wise adage before the Iraq War we would never have overthrown Saddam Hussein, despite his pustules, sores and warts.
He was the mortal enemy of Khomeini of Iran, against whom he waged an 8 year war, ending in stalemate.
But Bush was POTUS, giving new meaning to the descriptive, schmuck; a man infinitely too stupid for words.
Hopefully we will seize the moment this time, rather than again embarrassing ourselves w/another asinine and counter-productive action.
Let's try and stay on topic, shall we? This is not about Bush and Iraq, this is more about you ignoring the oozing boil on the face of the planet, Turkey, and the leaders move toward Sharia.
How is it you can't see what's happening in Turkey, even when I open a thread with solid evidence in the first stages of removing all things Christian, next is the tax, followed by beheadings or conversion with a life long tax on the family despite converting.
Funny thing is, you like to see yourself as enlightened to their history, but refuse to recognize the fact that history is once again repeating itself.
I'll say it again, "Time To Boot Turkey Out Of NATO". We don't need Turkey, so putting pressure on its leadership now and forcing a reversal of his new Sharia policy would be the right move.
Update:
Turkey announces they are now teaching JIHAD in new education curriculum
Turkish Education Minister İsmet Yılmaz has said a new national school curriculum will exclude evolution theory but will include the concept of jihad, or holy war, as part of Islamic law in textbooks.
Speaking during a press conference to introduce the new school curriculum in Ankara on Tuesday, Yılmaz said: "Jihad is an element in our religion; it is in our religion... The duty of the Education Ministry is to teach every deserving concept correctly. It is also our job to correct things that are wrongly perceived, seen or taught."
http://therightscoop.com/nato-member-country-announces-they-are-now-teaching-jihad-in-new-education-curriculum/
Quote from: Solar on July 21, 2017, 07:35:42 AM
Update:
Turkey announces they are now teaching JIHAD in new education curriculum
Turkish Education Minister İsmet Yılmaz has said a new national school curriculum will exclude evolution theory but will include the concept of jihad, or holy war, as part of Islamic law in textbooks.
Speaking during a press conference to introduce the new school curriculum in Ankara on Tuesday, Yılmaz said: "Jihad is an element in our religion; it is in our religion... The duty of the Education Ministry is to teach every deserving concept correctly. It is also our job to correct things that are wrongly perceived, seen or taught."
http://therightscoop.com/nato-member-country-announces-they-are-now-teaching-jihad-in-new-education-curriculum/
They are not our friends and do not need access to the NATO protections. Also, one can be assured Russia has access to what NATO is doing through Turkey now. Their political situation now voids the reasons they were invited to join NATO. Times change.
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 21, 2017, 08:10:29 AM
They are not our friends and do not need access to the NATO protections. Also, one can be assured Russia has access to what NATO is doing through Turkey now. Their political situation now voids the reasons they were invited to join NATO. Times change.
Yep, and add to that, NATO weaponry. We do not want these 7th century animals with that kind of fire power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ysB50Pbv4
Milos, good one.
I'm always bemused by those aware of the cyclicality of Nature, who never grasp that it also applies to History. Santana wisely observed that "Those oblivious to history are condemned to repeat it".
Anatolia was civilized since 10,000 BC; by the Hittites, Assyrians, Greeks (who founded Troy), Romans, Armenians, Byzantines ; among many others.
The Ottomans (Muslims) arrived around 1450 AD some 600 years ago which is but 5% of the time since organized culture/society first stirred in Anatolia.
Sadly, static thinkers never escape the present, insisting that matters will always be the way they are because that's the way things are.
Quote from: Walter Josh on August 08, 2017, 12:17:08 PM
Milos, good one.
I'm always bemused by those aware of the cyclicality of Nature, who never grasp that it also applies to History. Santana wisely observed that "Those oblivious to history are condemned to repeat it".
Anatolia was civilized since 10,000 BC; by the Hittites, Assyrians, Greeks (who founded Troy), Romans, Armenians, Byzantines ; among many others.
The Ottomans (Muslims) arrived around 1450 AD some 600 years ago which is but 5% of the time since organized culture/society first stirred in Anatolia.
Sadly, static thinkers never escape the present, insisting that matters will always be the way they are because that's the way things are.
So you admit, NATO should boot Turkey from its ranks based on history and its cyclical nature when taking Muscums into account?
One can't deny the fact that a radical and very brutal minority is taking over Islum in an attempt to return to the good old days of quest and conquer.
Ottoman Turks were vassals of Seljuk Turks, until their founder, Osman I Gazy (Othman), declared independence from Seljuks in 1299, and that is when Ottoman Turkish conquest in Anatolia begins. They have been a very organized and strong culture based on the Muslim faith from the very beginning, and because nobody took them too seriously, they have managed to create a great Muslim Ottoman Empire that replaced the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire. History repeats itself indeed, majority of Europeans still don't take this new Muslim migrant conquest of the Christian world too seriously, and that is the danger. Anyway, the Byzantines called the Muslims the vanguard of the Antichrist.
Turkey culturally certainly does not belong together with other NATO members. (So, boot Albania too, ha ha.) But you must be aware that Turkey is very important for controlling of Middle East, Balkans, and Russia. Ukraine and Georgia were once part of Russia, so they are not so much reliable NATO allies as Turkey is. So, NATO commanders would never let Turkey go. And more, maybe it is even better that Turkey remains in NATO, so that it could be controlled. Otherwise, if unleashed, they could really start a new military conquest of Middle East and Balkans. Contrary to Arabs, Turks are actually great warriors, comparable to the best world armies, they shoot to kill, and they can accept to die in battle for glory. What would NATO do in that case, go to war against Turkey? I doubt, Turks are not Iraqis, Turks are an equal enemy, with strong chances to win a war. But, that could also be a chance to get rid of Turkey for good.
Quote from: milos on August 10, 2017, 06:31:57 AM
Ottoman Turks were vassals of Seljuk Turks, until their founder, Osman I Gazy (Othman), declared independence from Seljuks in 1299, and that is when Ottoman Turkish conquest in Anatolia begins. They have been a very organized and strong culture based on the Muslim faith from the very beginning, and because nobody took them too seriously, they have managed to create a great Muslim Ottoman Empire that replaced the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire. History repeats itself indeed, majority of Europeans still don't take this new Muslim migrant conquest of the Christian world too seriously, and that is the danger. Anyway, the Byzantines called the Muslims the vanguard of the Antichrist.
Turkey culturally certainly does not belong together with other NATO members. (So, boot Albania too, ha ha.) But you must be aware that Turkey is very important for controlling of Middle East, Balkans, and Russia. Ukraine and Georgia were once part of Russia, so they are not so much reliable NATO allies as Turkey is. So, NATO commanders would never let Turkey go. And more, maybe it is even better that Turkey remains in NATO, so that it could be controlled. Otherwise, if unleashed, they could really start a new military conquest of Middle East and Balkans. Contrary to Arabs, Turks are actually great warriors, comparable to the best world armies, they shoot to kill, and they can accept to die in battle for glory. What would NATO do in that case, go to war against Turkey? I doubt, Turks are not Iraqis, Turks are an equal enemy, with strong chances to win a war. But, that could also be a chance to get rid of Turkey for good.
Spot on Milos...
That's the very reason Turkey was invited, as a "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer".
Problem is, Turkey in no way shares Western ideals, and I highly doubt Russia wants anything to do with them, so booting them really changes nothing, as for using them as a flyover shortcut?
Screw them, tell them, if they interfere, they'll suffer the consequences. I say we need to isolate Turkey best as possible because the dog has outgrown its kennel, but we have a nice island to stick it on.