Author Topic: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America  (Read 16743 times)

Offline Solar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65013
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2012, 10:07:37 AM »
I'm not insulted by a discussion of facts. I've already agreed with you, that indeed you are right, there were white slaves in the Americas, just as there were Native American slaves. What I am arguing with you about is - what seems to me - an attempt to make that slavery the equivalent of black slavery. And it simply wasn't. And of course I ask why the attempt? Just as I ask why make such an issue out of the tiny number of black slave owners, and their comparatively minuscule number of slaves?
I honestly don't care about black slave owners or how many slaves were owned by whom, the fact is, we all have a history, whether one is more recent is completely irrelevant.
You seem focused on a moot point, that point being, it is history, in other words, it affects none of us.
Why is this such an issue for you?

And here's something else to chew on. I don't give a damn!
What I care about most, is that my ancestors had the intestinal fortitude to move forward, so that I could live a normal life and not think like a victim.
Oh sure, I could do an ancestry search to find all the victims, then mourn their plight as if it were my own, but that would be doing them a disservice, in that they threw off the bonds, yet I want them to wear them again, so I can play victim.
Nope! I don't play that shit.

Move on Giles, it's not a contest as to whether one race of people were treated worse than another, were all people!
#WWG1WGA

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2012, 12:20:45 PM »
I honestly don't care about black slave owners or how many slaves were owned by whom, the fact is, we all have a history, whether one is more recent is completely irrelevant.
You seem focused on a moot point, that point being, it is history, in other words, it affects none of us.
Why is this such an issue for you?

And here's something else to chew on. I don't give a damn!
What I care about most, is that my ancestors had the intestinal fortitude to move forward, so that I could live a normal life and not think like a victim.
Oh sure, I could do an ancestry search to find all the victims, then mourn their plight as if it were my own, but that would be doing them a disservice, in that they threw off the bonds, yet I want them to wear them again, so I can play victim.
Nope! I don't play that shit.

Move on Giles, it's not a contest as to whether one race of people were treated worse than another, were all people!
Let me give you a Holocaust analogy - and I saying up front that this isn't an exact analogy - whatever slavery was, or wasn't, it definitely wasn't industrialized mass murder. Let's say you are the descendant of Holocaust survivors and you're discussing it. And someone interjects that they also murdered Gypsies. What effect does that have on the overall horror of the Holocaust for Jews. How about if the bring up the fact that some Jews hid in the Wehrmacht and even the SS, the very people who were murdering the Jews. does that decrease it's significance? Holocaust deniers often use the talking point:" well the numbers are wrong". "They didn't kill six million Jews, only 4 million. And if they got that wrong how can we even be sure it ever happened". The implication being that the difference between six million and four million somehow negates the event. And when you first started the conversation, wouldn't you wonder why the subject of the Gypsies was even brought up? And what would be your mindset, if you received a "so, get over it", Stalin killed the Ukrainians and the Ottomans murdered the Armenians?
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2012, 03:01:00 PM »
Same tired crap. People come online, downplay the historical facts and then get mad when they're called on them. Irish were considered "second class citizens" at the same time that blacks were considered human cattle. Italians were considered "second class citizens" at the same time as blacks were living under Jim Crow. IN THIS COUNTRY. You see that's the point. answering the historical fact of black history in this country's past, by telling me how badly the Babylonians treated the Israelites, or the Romans treated the Gauls, is kind of a dodge. And what makes me so fucking special is that it happened in this country. I'm a descendent of the people who were the f**king victims of this country's history. And lest you forget, this thread is about this country's history. Strange how when ever the subject arises, some people prefer to minimize it, or rush past it, or start lectures on how it's no worse than other places. And no I wasn't a slave. Did you fight in the Civil War to free the slaves? Or were you on the side that wanted to keep them in chains.

I'm going to tell you what pisses me off. I'm a white person, that had nothing to do with slavery, nor did any of my ancestors. Almost daily, I hear a bunch race baiting bullshit coming out of Obama, Holder saying the fast and furious investigation is based on white racism, all of that Jeremiah Wright, loud mouth, racist trash a few years ago........................I'm sick of it.

If black people want to hold a grudge against the country, fine. The constant attacks on white people in general, are getting really old. I can't understand why so many black people, (that were never slaves), want to cling to slavery, as the single most important factor of their existence.

What's up with this? What if Romney pulled something like this, with whites? As far as I'm concerned, we're all Americans.

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2012, 04:02:28 PM »
I'm going to tell you what pisses me off. I'm a white person, that had nothing to do with slavery, nor did any of my ancestors. Almost daily, I hear a bunch race baiting bullshit coming out of Obama, Holder saying the fast and furious investigation is based on white racism, all of that Jeremiah Wright, loud mouth, racist trash a few years ago........................I'm sick of it.
Then why does it bother you? If your hands are clean and you harbor absolutely no guilt. The discussing it should be little more than an academic exercise.
Quote
If black people want to hold a grudge against the country, fine. The constant attacks on white people in general, are getting really old. I can't understand why so many black people, (that were never slaves), want to cling to slavery, as the single most important factor of their existence.
And I hold a "grudge" because I recall that it happened, and actually want to discuss it upon occasion? Would you feel better about the issue if I - or all blacks - pretended it never happened?

Quote
What's up with this? What if Romney pulled something like this, with whites? As far as I'm concerned, we're all Americans.

Never said we all weren't. Is discussing that part of history a sign of "disloyalty"? Why is it okay for Sen. Webb to go on Smithsonian Channel, and talk about the Scots-Irish, their history, beliefs, and how that has effected them down to the present day. But if I want to discuss the history of blacks, it's a forbidden subject.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 04:15:14 PM »
Then why does it bother you? If your hands are clean and you harbor absolutely no guilt. The discussing it should be little more than an academic exercise.And I hold a "grudge" because I recall that it happened, and actually want to discuss it upon occasion? Would you feel better about the issue if I - or all blacks - pretended it never happened?
Never said we all weren't. Is discussing that part of history a sign of "disloyalty"? Why is it okay for Sen. Webb to go on Smithsonian Channel, and talk about the Scots-Irish, their history, beliefs, and how that has effected them down to the present day. But if I want to discuss the history of blacks, it's a forbidden subject.

There's nothing wrong with discussing slavery. What bothers me, is the rampant racism that goes on in this country right now..................................and it's not coming from white people. The hypocrisy is mind boggling.

Wide open voter intimidation...................no prosecutions.

Offline Solar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65013
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 04:22:44 PM »
Let me give you a Holocaust analogy - and I saying up front that this isn't an exact analogy - whatever slavery was, or wasn't, it definitely wasn't industrialized mass murder. Let's say you are the descendant of Holocaust survivors and you're discussing it. And someone interjects that they also murdered Gypsies. What effect does that have on the overall horror of the Holocaust for Jews. How about if the bring up the fact that some Jews hid in the Wehrmacht and even the SS, the very people who were murdering the Jews. does that decrease it's significance? Holocaust deniers often use the talking point:" well the numbers are wrong". "They didn't kill six million Jews, only 4 million. And if they got that wrong how can we even be sure it ever happened". The implication being that the difference between six million and four million somehow negates the event. And when you first started the conversation, wouldn't you wonder why the subject of the Gypsies was even brought up? And what would be your mindset, if you received a "so, get over it", Stalin killed the Ukrainians and the Ottomans murdered the Armenians?
There is simply no comparison, so your analogy falls flat on it's face.
It's akin to fags linking their plight to slavery.
Weak doesn't even begin to cover it.
But nice try.
#WWG1WGA

Offline Solar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65013
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 04:40:48 PM »
Then why does it bother you? If your hands are clean and you harbor absolutely no guilt. The discussing it should be little more than an academic exercise.And I hold a "grudge" because I recall that it happened, and actually want to discuss it upon occasion? Would you feel better about the issue if I - or all blacks - pretended it never happened?
Never said we all weren't. Is discussing that part of history a sign of "disloyalty"? Why is it okay for Sen. Webb to go on Smithsonian Channel, and talk about the Scots-Irish, their history, beliefs, and how that has effected them down to the present day. But if I want to discuss the history of blacks, it's a forbidden subject.
I think it's how the issue is broached and presented.
For example:

Quote
Chris Rock
    ✔
@chrisrock

Happy white peoples independence day the slaves weren't free but I'm sure they enjoyed fireworks

#WWG1WGA

Offline kramarat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5192
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2012, 04:12:46 AM »
I think it's how the issue is broached and presented.
For example:

The bitterness sounds a little odd, coming from a multimillionaire. Although, it's the divisive comments that come straight out of Washington, that really bother me. As president, Obama is supposed to be representing all of us.........................He has yet to show that he has anything but disdain for over half the country.

I also think that the practice of telling our young black people, (from birth), that they are victims of slavery, does both them, and our country, a great disservice.

Everyone agrees that slavery in the US was a horrible thing..........................and yes, thousands of white people gave their lives, specifically fighting the principle of enslaving other human beings. It's just not included in our history, because it doesn't fit the, "white people are bad" template.

As horrible as slavery was, generations of black people have been born as free US citizens as a result of it. Maybe not such a bad thing, when considering the conditions that many black people live under in Africa...................including modern day slavery and genocide.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 04:29:31 AM by kramarat »

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2012, 07:39:06 AM »
There is simply no comparison, so your analogy falls flat on it's face.
It's akin to fags linking their plight to slavery.
Weak doesn't even begin to cover it.
But nice try.
Interesting - and enlightening. Nothing on why the analogy has faults, just dismiss it out of hand.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2012, 07:44:42 AM »
Quote
I think it's how the issue is broached and presented.
For example:

Quote
    Chris Rock
        ✔
    @chrisrock

    Happy white peoples independence day the slaves weren't free but I'm sure they enjoyed fireworks
And the fact that he's pretty much historically correct, isn't the issue?  But the fact that he said it on the Fourth and ruined your day is?
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2012, 08:42:10 AM »
The bitterness sounds a little odd, coming from a multimillionaire.
And now that he's rich, he should forget everything his parents and grandparents told him, about the way they were treated?
Quote
Although, it's the divisive comments that come straight out of Washington, that really bother me. As president, Obama is supposed to be representing all of us.........................He has yet to show that he has anything but disdain for over half the country.
And you lump any comment on the history of the US along with those of the race hustlers and black nationalists. So any black man speaks for all black men? Heard me lump you in with David Duke or Aryan Nation recently? And on the subject of Obama, he is a half KENYAN and half white. He was raised by his white mother and grandparents. He was raised in Hawaii one of the "whiter" states in the union. I wouldn't doubt that for much of his life people thought he was a Pacific Islander. And then he comes to the states And gets dropped into the liberal atmosphere of college, where he wasn't known for associating with any of the black students. Obama went to Chicago, and sat in Rev Wrights pews for 20 years so he could "learn how to be black" without embarrassing himself in front of the blacks he needed for his political ambitions. As I have long since recognized, maybe because I can look past skin color,  Obama is a white radical who is using the old "one drop rule" to hide behind.

Quote
I also think that the practice of telling our young black people, (from birth), that they are victims of slavery, does both them, and our country, a great disservice.
They ARE the descendants of the victims of slavery and Jim Crow. You can't ask for historical amnesia. Pretending it never happened, only makes it more of an issue. Instead of suggesting that we "get over it" or "let bygones be bygones", why isn't the right countering with the other side of the story. Yes, there were slaves, BUT there were also efforts from the beginning to free them.

Quote
Everyone agrees that slavery in the US was a horrible thing..........................and yes, thousands of white people gave their lives, specifically fighting the principle of enslaving other human beings. It's just not included in our history, because it doesn't fit the, "white people are bad" template.
Then why has the right allowed the left to take over our educational system. You complain about what's being taught but do nothing to counter it. How are the facts supposed to be learned if they are not being taught. Why isn't the right pushing vouchers, in order to destroy the stranglehold the left has on education?

Quote
As horrible as slavery was, generations of black people have been born as free US citizens as a result of it. Maybe not such a bad thing, when considering the conditions that many black people live under in Africa...................including modern day slavery and genocide.
Okay, somebody drags me out of my apartment. At the front door he turns me over to some other guys. These guys drag me down the street, to an empty lot and proceed to kick the crap out of me. Most of the time while they're kicking the crap out of me, I'm tied up. Eventually they untie me but continue to beat the crap out of me. One day they stop. And I look down the street at the apartment building I used to live in, and the building is burning down. A real five alarm blaze. Now the people who were kicking the crap out of me, want my everlasting thanks because they "saved" me from that burning building. Sound familiar.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Offline Solar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65013
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2012, 08:59:10 AM »
Interesting - and enlightening. Nothing on why the analogy has faults, just dismiss it out of hand.
Mass murder, you call that a comparison?
#WWG1WGA

Offline Solar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65013
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2012, 09:00:08 AM »
And the fact that he's pretty much historically correct, isn't the issue?  But the fact that he said it on the Fourth and ruined your day is?
Your racism is coming through loud and clear.
#WWG1WGA

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2012, 09:18:20 AM »
Mass murder, you call that a comparison?
Actually, I noted that major difference in the BOLDED first line. Still no comments on the analogy - which was aimed at the manner in which the subject is discussed, I see.
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

Offline mdgiles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9373
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Hidden Truth: White Slaves In Early America
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2012, 09:23:15 AM »
Your racism is coming through loud and clear.
If I were racist, I would be nowhere near as polite as I am. Simply because you wish black people would stop talking about history, doesn't make us "racist" when we don't follow your wishes.

So, in opposition to Rock, what meaning do YOU think those early independence celebrations had to those in bondage?
"LIBERALS: their willful ignorance is rivaled only by their catastrophic stupidity"!

 

Powered by EzPortal