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Author Topic: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]  (Read 12008 times)

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2018, 01:53:00 AM »
If you do a search for "Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia" we're the first link that pops up.

Probably the title of the topic was spot on. :wink: But I am not sure if I understand your stats, 51,4% of what? And 4,662 unique visitors?

I am looking at the first response to this topic: "Obviously religious bigotry is evil.", and I can't believe my eyes. That is why I am insisting on telling about the historical contexts and explanations. One should begin at least from 1054, when the Church was divided into Eastern and Western directly over the Balkans, and continue with the Muslim Turk arrival in the 14th century. Then count all the rapes, body mutilations, beheadings, people impaled, slaves taken, for five centuries. But still, Muslims in Yugoslavia were not so strict, they regularly drank alcohol, and probably ate pork at times, they dressed like all Europeans, etc, and Yugoslavia was one of the most secular countries in the world. That tells the historical context is the most important, and those Muslims in Bosnia and Albania didn't just suddenly fell from the sky, or just freely decided to convert to Islam because of religious freedom. It is more complicated than that.

Here is a video from a Sky News reporter.



Shaul Shay, an officer in the military intelligence of the Israeli Defense Forces and expert on international and fundamentalist Islamic terrorism, has published the new book "Islamic Terror and the Balkans". In that book he analyzes the growth of radical Islam in the Balkans. He shows how the war in Bosnia and the war in Kosovo provided the historical opportunity for radical Islam to penetrate the Balkans.

"It was an ongoing process. During the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina Islamic mujahideens from different parts of the world came to support the local Muslims. Later on when the war was over they formed an [Islamic terrorist] infrastructure that exists even today," said Shaul Shay in his interview to Monday's Encounter on January 6. In it, I show the process and the development of this phenomenon during two wars, first in Bosnia and Herzegovina and later on in Kosovo," continued Shay.

Intelligence sources reveal that there have been for more than a decade, three main radical Islamist mujahideen operating in Bosnia: The Iranian mujahideein, consisting entirely of Iranian nationals, the Arab mujahideen, consisting mainly of volunteers from Saudi Arabia, from Palestine, Jordan and Yemen and the North African mujahideen, mainly involving Egyptians, Algerians and Moroccans. Some of them have been engaged in some of the more serious terrorist actions (including the September 11, 2001, attacks on the US).


And so, when Bosnian Muslims murder more than 3,500 Serb civilians in the villages around the city of Srebrenica, it is nowhere heard. But when Serb criminals shoot 484 Bosnian Muslim POWs - it is called a genocide worldwide. I have heard from a Serb who was then working for the French intelligence and was in Bosnia at the time wearing a French uniform, that there were only 484 Muslims shot in Srebrenica. Muslims have then brought thousands of Muslim corpses from all over Bosnia into Srebrenica, to claim there were around 9,000 Muslims shot at that city. It is a very dangerous agenda to mark Srebrenica a spot of the Muslim suffering from the Christian hand. At least the French intelligence should know about this, and I call on them to reveal the truth about Srebrenica.
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Offline Solar

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2018, 08:59:55 AM »
Probably the title of the topic was spot on. :wink: But I am not sure if I understand your stats, 51,4% of what? And 4,662 unique visitors?

I am looking at the first response to this topic: "Obviously religious bigotry is evil.", and I can't believe my eyes. That is why I am insisting on telling about the historical contexts and explanations. One should begin at least from 1054, when the Church was divided into Eastern and Western directly over the Balkans, and continue with the Muslim Turk arrival in the 14th century. Then count all the rapes, body mutilations, beheadings, people impaled, slaves taken, for five centuries. But still, Muslims in Yugoslavia were not so strict, they regularly drank alcohol, and probably ate pork at times, they dressed like all Europeans, etc, and Yugoslavia was one of the most secular countries in the world. That tells the historical context is the most important, and those Muslims in Bosnia and Albania didn't just suddenly fell from the sky, or just freely decided to convert to Islam because of religious freedom. It is more complicated than that.

Here is a video from a Sky News reporter.



Shaul Shay, an officer in the military intelligence of the Israeli Defense Forces and expert on international and fundamentalist Islamic terrorism, has published the new book "Islamic Terror and the Balkans". In that book he analyzes the growth of radical Islam in the Balkans. He shows how the war in Bosnia and the war in Kosovo provided the historical opportunity for radical Islam to penetrate the Balkans.

"It was an ongoing process. During the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina Islamic mujahideens from different parts of the world came to support the local Muslims. Later on when the war was over they formed an [Islamic terrorist] infrastructure that exists even today," said Shaul Shay in his interview to Monday's Encounter on January 6. In it, I show the process and the development of this phenomenon during two wars, first in Bosnia and Herzegovina and later on in Kosovo," continued Shay.

Intelligence sources reveal that there have been for more than a decade, three main radical Islamist mujahideen operating in Bosnia: The Iranian mujahideein, consisting entirely of Iranian nationals, the Arab mujahideen, consisting mainly of volunteers from Saudi Arabia, from Palestine, Jordan and Yemen and the North African mujahideen, mainly involving Egyptians, Algerians and Moroccans. Some of them have been engaged in some of the more serious terrorist actions (including the September 11, 2001, attacks on the US).


And so, when Bosnian Muslims murder more than 3,500 Serb civilians in the villages around the city of Srebrenica, it is nowhere heard. But when Serb criminals shoot 484 Bosnian Muslim POWs - it is called a genocide worldwide. I have heard from a Serb who was then working for the French intelligence and was in Bosnia at the time wearing a French uniform, that there were only 484 Muslims shot in Srebrenica. Muslims have then brought thousands of Muslim corpses from all over Bosnia into Srebrenica, to claim there were around 9,000 Muslims shot at that city. It is a very dangerous agenda to mark Srebrenica a spot of the Muslim suffering from the Christian hand. At least the French intelligence should know about this, and I call on them to reveal the truth about Srebrenica.
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Offline T Hunt

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2018, 07:11:19 AM »
The switheroo here is that you are the one with posts that largely compose of attempts to discredit the poster or otherwise deflect actually defending your position, not the "craziest extremist nutjob moron" (apparently me).  You use "debates" to show off your ability to bullshit your way through actually presenting a logical, factual argument with third person psycho-analysis, ad hominems and just anything other than actually answering the damn question:

Do you honestly think islamic fundamentalists have more in common with western liberals than western christian fundamenalists?

Absolutley YES.

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2020, 11:56:41 PM »
I was in Bosnia with UN forces between 1991 and 1996 and again on the NATO mission in 2003.

Dreadful crimes were committed by Catholic Croats against Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Bosniaks; by Muslim Bosniaks against Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs; and by Orthodox Serbs against Catholic Croats and Muslim Bosniaks.


The preponderance of brutality was by Serbs.

The aggression and ethnic cleansing was mostly by Serbs.


Any attempt to paint Serbs as the victims is purely propaganda. The behaviour of Serbia and the Serb minority in Bosnia was bestial, and they instigated the bestiality which other ethnic groups soon sank in to.

The former Jugoslavia is still reeling from the disasters of the 90s.

Can you bring some evidence or example of what you claim?

Because I don't know what you are talking about. Serbs could have easily taken all of the Bosnia and Herzegovina in a matter of days and end the war, but they stopped at their ethnic borders, which was a fatal mistake, perpetrated by the Serbian communist leadership which was anti-Serb. Then we got Mujahideen from Iran and Palestine and other Muslim countries to behead us in Bosnia.
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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2020, 01:45:04 AM »
The Serbs couldn't have taken much more ground. Early on, before UN troops arrived, they demonstrated fairly poor fighting skills against determined defence. The terrain is very difficult, too, meaning lightly armed defenders, mines, and well placed mortars can force a stand off.

When YN troops arrived we were placed to prevent further large scale changes of territory. In effect, any attack on, say, a Croat village by Bosniaks or a Bosniak village by Serbs would need to go through a British Company first, or a French tank troop. Also, besieged areas were supplied with food and medicine by UN convoys escorted by heavily armed soldiers. I was on these convoys-a line of trucks with Warrior (similar to your Bradley IFV) at both ends, and Saxon troop carriers in the convoy too.

We explained at the checkpoint outside the besieged area that we were coming through and any attempt to stop us would be met with force.

British, French, Canadian, ANZAC troops were more effective UN soldiers than some, and some nations' UN contingents were very obviously biased-Orthodox towards Serbs, Catholics towards Croats, Muslims towards Bosniaks - in ways that the British, French, Canadians and ANZACS were not.


Generally, though, the idea that Serbian forces were restrained by their own restraint is not true. They were restrained by defending forces and the UN.

Milos asked you for some evidence.

The only rule on this forum is you provide evidence or proof when called on it.

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2020, 05:19:22 AM »
The Serbs couldn't have taken much more ground. Early on, before UN troops arrived, they demonstrated fairly poor fighting skills against determined defence. The terrain is very difficult, too, meaning lightly armed defenders, mines, and well placed mortars can force a stand off.

When YN troops arrived we were placed to prevent further large scale changes of territory. In effect, any attack on, say, a Croat village by Bosniaks or a Bosniak village by Serbs would need to go through a British Company first, or a French tank troop. Also, besieged areas were supplied with food and medicine by UN convoys escorted by heavily armed soldiers. I was on these convoys-a line of trucks with Warrior (similar to your Bradley IFV) at both ends, and Saxon troop carriers in the convoy too.

We explained at the checkpoint outside the besieged area that we were coming through and any attempt to stop us would be met with force.

British, French, Canadian, ANZAC troops were more effective UN soldiers than some, and some nations' UN contingents were very obviously biased-Orthodox towards Serbs, Catholics towards Croats, Muslims towards Bosniaks - in ways that the British, French, Canadians and ANZACS were not.


Generally, though, the idea that Serbian forces were restrained by their own restraint is not true. They were restrained by defending forces and the UN.

You claim that the preponderance of brutality was by Serbs, and the aggression and ethnic cleansing was mostly by Serbs. Please, give some examples of what you mean.

Bosnian Muslims were those who declared Bosnia's independence and started the war, Serbs didn't want independent Bosnia nor the war. The Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) at that time consisted only of Serb soldiers who didn't want the war, and of communist General Staff who was anti-Serb. That is why they have demonstrated fairly poor fighting skills against determined Muslim defence as you say, because the Muslims were eager to go into the war and were willing to fight, unlike the Serbs, who were mostly confused. But the Serbs had all the means of military power - planes, tanks, artillery, etc, while the Muslims had barely anything, and they were lightly armed as you say. So I say, if there was a will in the Serbian military and political leadership to defeat the Bosnian Muslims, they could have done it before the UN troops arrived, and even after, but they didn't, because there was no such a will.

Canadian General Lewis MacKenzie, who was the first UNPROFOR commander in the city of Sarajevo, claims that the Serbs could have taken Sarajevo in a matter of days early in the war if that had been their intention.



According to the 1991 census in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Muslims formed 43.5%, Serbs 31.2%, Croats 17.4% of the population.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Last-Yugoslav-Census-Bosnia-Herzegovinas-1991-Population-according-to-Ethnicity_tbl1_231889150

Muslims lived mostly in the cities, and Serbs in the rural areas, that is why the Serb ethnic territory was around 64%, and after the beginning of the war the Serb Republic expanded to 75%. Countries like Germany and Unted States and others who followed them recognized independent Bosnia and Herzegovina in the spring of 1992, too early and with no rights, when Bosnia and Herzegovina had only Muslim central government recognized only by the Muslim minority, and which was not in control over the 75% of the territory it claimed to be governing. Muslims wanted independent Bosnia by all means necessary, Serbs wanted to remain in Yugoslavia. Did the Muslim minority of 43.5% had the right to impose their rule over the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina, and did the Serbs have the right to reject the Muslim rule? Muslims didn't have the majority nor the military power to fulfill their goals, and so their only option was to play victims and attract the international intervention in their favor.



Serbs were not shelling Bosnian civilians in Sarajevo for no reason, there was a war, there was a front line, Muslims had more soldiers in Sarajevo, Serbs had more artillery around Sarajevo. Remember the Second World War, and all the bombings and artillery shellings of the cities on both sides. No one claims it was killing of innocent civilians for no reason.

Former UNPROFOR General Lewis MacKenzie and former Canadian ambassador to Yugoslavia James Bisset discuss Bosnia 20 years after the war broke out. James Bisset: "Well, the trigger was really when the American ambassador persuaded Alija Izetbegović, the Moslem leader in Bosnia, to renounce his signature, and withdraw his signature from an agreement that had been reached earlier, negotiated by the Portuguese foreign minister. Portugal was the head of the EEC at that time, and he had gotten the three parties together, and they had signed what's now known as the Lisbon Agreement, and that meant that Bosnia could become independent, but there would be three autonomous regions. They all signed that, but my neighbor who lived across the street from me, Warren Zimmermman, US ambassador, came to convince Alija Izetbegović to renounce that agreement and declare unilateral independence, and that the United States would immediately recognize an independent Bosnia, and establish the first Moslem state in the heart of Europe. Of course, anybody who had been following the circumstances leading up to this, knew that that meant a bloody civil war, because the Bosnian Serbs were not going to accept that."



Bosnian city of Tuzla, May 15th 1992, after an agreement between Serbian and Muslim side that the Yugoslav People's Army will withdraw their forces, the convoy of Serb soldiers is being ambushed by the Muslims. Muslim "defending" forces attacked Serb "offensive" forces in withdrawal? And why to withdraw from the city and not to conquer the city, that is the question.

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Offline Solar

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2020, 05:51:32 AM »
Is the evidence of my own eyes acceptable?
Do you even know what led to the events you came to see in progress?
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Offline Solar

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2020, 03:05:06 PM »
Yes.

And there are no circumstances at all which justify the deliberate killing of unarmed civilians by soldiers using small arms face to face. Nor rape, nor torture.

The extraordinarily convoluted history of the region is a historical context, not a get out for criminals.

The Irish terrorists use that logic, too:

"It's ok to murder civilians because history."

Wrong.
Right or wrong, it is the reason for retribution.
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Offline Solar

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2020, 07:15:34 PM »
Quite.

However, those who commit such barbarism can't use earlier events as a defence.

Prosecutor: tell us, Mr. Solar, why you and your associates tied up 14 young couples at gunpoint, raped the women in front of their boyfriends and husbands, castrated the men, then cut the breasts and lips off the women before shooting all of them?

Solar: well, see, they were Bosniaks and if you go back a few generations, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Ottomans before them bore down heavily upon my Serbian forebears.

Prosecutor: I'm not following this-had any of the young people you raped, tortured, mutilated  and murdered ever harmed you?

Solar: no, Sir, until I captured these unarmed people at gunpoint I had never met them.

P: so, why are you seeking to defend your actions by referring to historical events?

S: I was really angry.

P: err.......



See? It doesn't work.

Incidentally, the description of the crime is straight from a scene I witnessed maybe 12 - 18 hours after it happened. I still have screaming nightmares about it sometimes, over 25 years later.


By the by, l was looking at some of your posts.

Typos are one thing, but you need to work on your spelling. Did you go to school much?


I despise Islam, more even than i despise most other religions.

The attempt to use Jugoslavia's tragedy as malignant anti-Muslim and pro-nationalist propaganda is contemptible.

No respectable site would let posting like the earlier deposits on this thread go unchallenged.
Did you read the OP? I don't justify anything, I'm just pointing out the reality of what the EU and the Swiss are just now discovering, that these people want to kill them, and they better wake up before we see another Bosnia take place.
Don't think it can't happen again, it's what these Muscum do, they invade quietly. Just look at Dearbornistan.
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Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2020, 07:31:19 AM »
And there are no circumstances at all which justify the deliberate killing of unarmed civilians by soldiers using small arms face to face. Nor rape, nor torture.

The extraordinarily convoluted history of the region is a historical context, not a get out for criminals.

However, those who commit such barbarism can't use earlier events as a defence.

why you and your associates tied up 14 young couples at gunpoint, raped the women in front of their boyfriends and husbands, castrated the men, then cut the breasts and lips off the women before shooting all of them?

The attempt to use Jugoslavia's tragedy as malignant anti-Muslim and pro-nationalist propaganda is contemptible.

No respectable site would let posting like the earlier deposits on this thread go unchallenged.

I am from Belgrade, Serbia, so sorry if my English is not perfect, I am trying to do my best.

Can you remember where and when this happened, that some Bosnian Serbs tied up 14 young Muslim couples at gunpoint, raped the women in front of their boyfriends and husbands, castrated the men, then cut the breasts and lips off the women before shooting all of them? I am aware that a civil war is a Paradise for criminals, and that some crimes have happened, but I didn't hear for this exact one before.

But you stated that the preponderance of brutality was by Serbs, and the aggression and ethnic cleansing was mostly by Serbs. One war crime you have maybe witnessed is not the proof for such a bold statement.

If we want to discuss a war and war crimes, then we must know who started it, because those who started the war have incited all the war crimes that ensued. Is it true that the Serbs wanted to preserve Yugoslavia? Is it true that the Bosnian Muslims wanted to separate Bosnia from Yugoslavia? Is it true that all three parties in Bosnia have reached a peaceful agreement in Portugal, and then the American ambassador in Serbia convinced the Muslim side to withdraw their signature, and unilaterally declare Bosnian independence, under the rule of the Muslim minority? So, who has initiated the war? From what I know, Muslim atrocities over the Serbs in Bosnia happened on a much larger scale and were much more brutal, including the crimes of the Muslim fundamentalist volunteers from all of the Muslim nations who came to help the Muslim side in Bosnia.

I will try to find some material in English about the Muslim war crimes over the Serbian civilians in the villages around Sarajevo and Srebrenica, and about the Muslim lies over Srebrenica. But before that, since I am not comfortable with using dead people as ammunition, I will try to explain the situation in a greater context, including the history, which is important, because the history is happening right now and at the every given moment, and historical persons are not just individuals, they are part of a larger image.

And here we go, grab some popcorn and a beer. :smile:

Although tempted, I think I shall not go back further from the 14th century, which is just recent history. So, in the 14th century, there was a Serbian Empire of Czar Dushan (1331-1355), who managed to unite almost all of the Balkans under his rule, and liberate the Serbian ethnic territory from the Eastern Roman Empire (the Byzantines/the Greeks). The Greeks invited the Ottoman Turks from the Asia Minor into the Balkans to help them, and that is how we got the Serbian-Turkish conflict. Czar Dushan was eventually poisoned by the Greeks during his siege of Constantinople. Local lords have then divided the empire, fighting among themselves who shall be the next emperor, and the Ottoman Turks used this internal Serbian conflict to conquer the Serbian lands one by one.

There were four official languages used in the Ottoman Turkish Empire: Turkish - for every day purpose, Arabian - for religion and science, Persian - for poetry and literature, and Serbian - for diplomacy and military. The Turks had a custom of taking Christian children into slavery, converting them into Islam, and using them as military troops called the Janissaries. (They also liked to take young boys as sex slaves, but that is just too disgusting to mention, so I won't.) They have also imposed a heavy tax on the Christian population, so the Christian Serbs who were doing trade or some other business were deciding to convert into Islam in order to avoid taxes and for their business to prosper, and that is how we got Serbian Muslim population in the Balkans. Since the converts were doing business, they lived mostly in the cities, while the Christian population remained mostly in the countryside.

After the so-called First Serbian Uprising against the Turks in 1804 (it was not actually the first, but ok), it was clear that the days of the Ottoman Turkish Empire are counted, and the question was what to do after the Turks are gone. The Serbs wanted to revive their Empire of Czar Dushan. The great powers of the time - Russia, Austria, Britain - were not so pleased with such an idea. Only the French were hooked to this idea at some point, God bless them. :smile: Here is a French map from 1862, depicting the revival of the Serbian Empire.

Map published during 1862 in Paris. Title of the map is: "Map of the Serb population of Turkish Europe and of Southern Austria with the borders of the Serbian Empire of Dushan the Great (14th century)". It is from the book: "Serbie, son passé et son avenir" ("Serbia, its past and its future"), by the French author H. Thiers. (So, remember, French map, not Serbian nationalist aggressor map. :smile:) Dark green is for the Principality of Serbia at that time, light green is for the Serbian majority of population, yellow is for mixed Greek and Serbian population, and that light pinkish in the down left corner is for the Albanian majority of population. The red line are the borders of the Serbian Empire.



So, the French saw correctly all "South Slavs" as Serbs. This is a French map once again, not a Serbian map, just to be clear.

The Austrians were afraid of such an idea to lose their territories to some revived Serbian Empire, and so they have invented anti-Serbian propaganda based on their invented term called "Greater Serbia". It is very important to know this, because the same Austrian propaganda term "Greater Serbia" from the 19th century was used during the anti-Serbian propaganda in the 1990s. When Austria-Hungary occupied Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1878 from the Ottoman Turkey, they have invented "Bosnian" or "Bosniak" nation in order to distance Bosnia from Serbia, although Eastern Orthodox Serbs were the most numerous population in Bosnia at that time.

The 1879 population census in Bosnia and Herzegovina was the first census of the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina taken during the Austro-Hungarian occupation.

Orthodox Christians 496,485 - 42.88%
Sunni Muslims 448,613 - 38.73%
Catholics 209,391 - 18.08%
Jews 3,426 - 0.29%
Others 249 - 0.02%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1879_population_census_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

We can see that the Serbian population in Bosnia dropped from 42.88% in 1879 to 31.2% in 1991, while the Bosnian Muslim population raised from 38.73% to 43.5%.

But, what the Austria-Hungary was afraid of, came in 1918 after the World War One, when the Serbian military liberated the territories which were under the Austrian-Hungarian rule. We were about to capture Vienna in 1919, but our Allies stopped us.

A monument in the Austrian town of Velden am Wörther See, reading: "To here and no further came the Serbian cavalry. Year 1919."



So, Serbian cavalry in Austria in 1919. Not Bosnian, not Croatian, not Slovenian, not Yugoslavian, but Serbian. And, instead of joining the new territories to our Kingdom of Serbia, we were so nice and kind to form the Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes, under the Serbian royal dynasty. Nobody still can't explain why, it's a mystery. The name of the country was changed to Kingdom of Yugoslavia in 1929. And, regarding Bosnia, as you may notice, Serbs have perpetrated a genocide and ethnic cleansing over the Muslim population, which led to the rise of the Muslim population and the drop of the Serb population, during the Serbian rule over Bosnia. :smile:

Now, there was some thing called the Communist Party of Yugoslavia. It was banned in the Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes as a terrorist organization, they have had several attempts of assassinating the King. They held their 4th Congress in Dresden, Germany, in 1928. And this was of the crucial importance for the fate of Yugoslavia. The Communist Party of Yugoslavia set destruction of Yugoslavia as one of its main goals which was to be achieved by strict adherence to the right to the self determination of nations. The strategy of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia relied on nationalistic anti-Serbian movements. This strategy was based on the resolution of the Third Congress of the CPY aimed against Serbian bourgeoisie perceived as "oppressor" who evolved from "oppressive Serb people". It was also based on the conclusions of the Fifth Congress of Comintern which posed the principle of "federal system of national states".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Congress_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Yugoslavia

Or quote from this book.

http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0350-7653/2017/0350-76531748243N.pdf

>> At its Fifth Congress held in 1924, the Comintern abandoned the idea of federal reorganization of Yugoslavia on account of the argument that “the western imperialists” were using Yugoslavia and the other Balkan countries as a “cordon sanitaire” on the south-western border of the Soviet Union. In order to break this “cordon sanitaire”, a new and radical political stand was defined in Moscow. According to it, the right to secession was acknowledged to “the oppressed nations” in the states of the enemy camp. Moreover, the Fifth Congress of the Comintern explicitly acknowledged the right of Slovenia, Croatia and Macedonia to secede and create independent states. It was also emphasized that assistance should be extended to “the liberation of ethnic Albanians” in Kosovo.

From then on, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was to the Yugoslav Communists a “dungeon of nations” in which the Serbian political elite allegedly oppressed the other nations and ethnic minorities. The Third Congress of the KPJ (Vienna, 1926) accepted the resolution of the Fifth Plenum of the Comintern’s Executive Committee of 1925 which had called for the disintegration of Yugoslavia and the creation of a revolutionary Balkan federation. The political platform adopted at the Fourth Congress (Dresden, 1928) stressed the absolute necessity of breaking up the common South-Slavic state and acknowledged “the right of all oppressed nations – Croats, Slovenians, Macedonians and Montenegrins – to self-determination including secession”.

The position on the national question acquired an even sharper tone at the Fourth Conference of the KPJ (Ljubljana, December 1934). It was stressed that the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was essentially “an occupation” of Croatia, Dalmatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina by “Serbian troops”. The basic view was that “Greater-Serbian Yugoslavia” was potentially one of “the most dangerous hotspots in a new imperialist war in Europe”. Consequently, the main goal of the KPJ was to topple “fascist dictatorship” by an armed uprising and to establish a Soviet type of government: “There can be no talk of toppling the Greater-Serbian fascist military dictatorship without a systematic revolutionary action within the army.” <<

Shortly after, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, with Josip Broz Tito as its leader, made alliance with the Croatian fascists during the World War Two, which lead to more than a million dead Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies, in the Croatian concentration camps in modern day Croatia and Bosnia, with Bosnian Muslims also siding with Hitler and Croatia. And guess what, the Allies, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and United States, brought those same communists on power in Yugoslavia in 1945, the same communists who decided in 1928 that Yugoslavia should be destroyed, abandoning the legal Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland lead by General Draža Mihailović. Can you smell a conspiracy, maybe, I am not sure. You bring to power communists in Yugoslavia whose main goal is to destroy Yugoslavia, and it happens in 1991. Who would have thought. :smile:

Yugoslav Communists officially declared their occupation of Serbia in 1944, it is in their documents that Serbia is to be treated as an occupied and hostile territory. They shot tens of thousands of Serbs in Serbia after the war, the real number was never determined. The same communists were choosing the Generals for the Yugoslav People's Army. And those Generals were leading the Yugoslav People's Army in 1991, which by then consisted only of Serb soldiers, into defeats intentionally. It was difficult for me to explain why we had communist Generals in the Serbian military, who intentionally lead us to defeats in Croatia and Bosnia and Kosovo during the 1990s, I hope I have managed to explain. They were communist Generals, of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, whose official goal was to destroy Yugoslavia and to destroy Serbian people.

Now, we are finally in 1990s, after a very brief history reminder. There are Bosnian Muslims, who are still minority in Bosnia, who are the consequence of the Ottoman Turkish rule, and the consequence of our Serbian kindness not to deport them all to Turkey in 1918, who have sided with Hitler in 1941, and want to rule over Bosnia. After centuries of being slaughtered, beheaded, impaled, mutilated, raped, taxed, enslaved, after given more than a 1,300,000 lives in WWI and more than a 1,000,000 lives in WWII for their freedom, Serbs are again to be enslaved by Muslim fascists. Shouldn't you think they are maybe a little bit pissed off so far after all? Having in mind Bosnia should had already become part of Serbia in 1918, with no excuses. And you say that the preponderance of brutality was by Serbs, and the aggression and ethnic cleansing was mostly by Serbs. When all of the Bosnia should have legally and legitimately been Serbian for more than a century right now.
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far." - Thomas Jefferson

Dubinsky

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2020, 02:20:59 PM »
Seems as good as any place to post this.


Muslims Running in 2020 U.S. Elections (List by State)

https://deplorablekel.com/2020/01/04/muslims-running-in-2020-u-s-elections-list-by-state/

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2020, 01:58:30 PM »
And yet, further up thread, we saw perfectly true commentary upon the Bosniak attitude towards Islam.

It was rather like the British attitude towards Christianity. Yes, there's an Imam, and weddings etc. follow tradition and custom, but these people, like urban Turks, drink beer (I can't remember the brand name but it wasn't bad at all) and Raki/Slivovitz.

The war changed things, but slowly. Late '94 i think it was, so.e Mujahedeen arrived to support their Muslim brothers near Kiseljak. We were briefed on this. They left 6 weeks later, having been deeply disappointed by the lack of religious fervour in the Bosniak population. Caused quite a chuckle at the time in BRITBATT.

I know you and so many others enjoy the hyster propaganda project in which all Muslims are Muscum and terrorists, and want to enslave or kill us.

It's simply not true.

There are profound problems with Islam and with many, many of the people who are Muslim. Not least the disturbing fact that they honestly believe, many of them, all the tripe about Allah and the prophets..... Be more precise in what you say, and you won't alienate people like me, who value accuracy and fairness.

Yes, of course, most Muslims in Yugoslavia were not radical nor fundamentalist before the war, they drunk alcohol, they were dressing like regular Europeans, they were into modern music, etc. But the Muslim leadership in Bosnia, with Alija Izetbegović as their leader, wanted to radicalize them in order to create a Muslim rule over Bosnia, they brought those Mujahedeen from abroad, and tried to impose Sharia law and more Muslim-like culture and behavior in Bosnia. I don't hate Muslims, I have a Muslim school friend who is actually a Serbian patriot, I have had good Muslim neighbors for most of my life, I go to a Muslim Albanian bakery here in my neighborhood because they have the best burek in town. And so, I must be asking some questions. How come, so many thousands of Muslims can live normally in the Serbian cities like Belgrade, and not feel oppressed, when they are such a vast minority, and nobody touches them? But in the regions where they form larger groups, like Bosnia or Kosovo, they suddenly feel oppressed by the Serbs. Does it make any sense?

But one fact must be clear - Muslims came into the Balkans in the 14th century as aggressors and conquerors, and they are still here as aggressors and conquerors. In the WWI, they were fighting on the defeated Austro-Hungarian side. We should have treated them all as POWs, but we said "ok, let's move on and live normally together". In the WWII, they sided with Hitler and Croatian fascists and slaughtered us. After the war, we said "ok, let's move on and live normally together". In the 1990s, they seceded Bosnia and Herzegovina from Yugoslavia, and brought Mujahedeen to slaughter us again. I mean what the heck. Their sole existence in Bosnia is thanks to the Serbs because we didn't deport them to Turkey in 1918. And then they claim they are oppressed, and the Serbs are aggressors in Bosnia, oh really? During the past century, Muslim population in Bosnia and Kosovo flourished. If they were oppressed, then that must have been some nasty oppression in which you grow and prosper instead of decline and die out. Sorry, but I must be sarcastic.

But back to Srebrenica. (Should I say "Serbian Medieval city of Srebrenica"?)

GENOCIDE DID NOT OCCUR IN SREBRENICA

English 10/03/2019

BEOGRAD, MARCH 10 /SRNA/ - It was not a genocide but a war crime in Srebrenica 1995, and before that crimes against Serbs in Srebrenica villages had been committed by Naser Orić's units, whose release in The Hague he considers shameful, said the Former Commander of UNPROFOR in BiH Lewis MacKenzie.

The units of Naser Orić were coming out the enclaves under UN protection and were committing an atrocity over the Serb people, stressed MacKenzie.

"This is a war crime. About the genocide over Bosniaks cannot be said, because the Serb forces evacuated all civilians, women, children, and old people from the area of combat activities", MacKenzie told to Serbian newspaper "Večernje novosti".

http://www.srna.rs/novosti/673360/genocide-did-not-occur-in-srebrenica.htm

The real story behind Srebrenica

LEWIS MacKENZIE
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published July 14, 2005
Updated April 22, 2018


As someone who played a modest role in some of the events preceding the massacre, perhaps a little background will provide some context. In early 1993, after my release from the Canadian Forces, I was asked to appear before a number of U.S. congressional committees dealing with Bosnia. A few months earlier, my successor in the UN Protection Force, General Philippe Morillon, had --against the advice of his UN masters -- bullied his way into Srebrenica accompanied by a tiny contingent of Canadian soldiers and told its citizens they were now under the protection of the UN. The folks at the UN in New York were furious with Gen. Morillon but, with the media on his side, they were forced to introduce the "safe haven" concept for six areas of Bosnia, including Srebrenica.

Wondering what this concept would mean, one U.S. senator asked me how many troops it would take to defend the safe havens. "Somewhere in the neighbourhood of 135,000 troops," I replied. It had to be that large because of the Serb artillery's range. The new UN commander on the ground in Bosnia, Belgian General Francis Briquemont, said he agreed with my assessment but was prepared to try to defend the areas with 65,000 additional troops. The secretary-general of the day, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, went to the Security Council and recommended 27,500 additional troops. The Security Council approved a force of 12,000 and, six months later, fewer than 2,000 additional soldiers had been added to UNPROFOR for the safe-haven tasks.

Then the Security Council changed the wording of the safe-haven resolution from "the UN will defend the safe havens" to "by their presence will the UN deter attacks on the safe havens." In other words, a tiny, token, lightly armed UN contingent would be placed as sacrificial lambs in Srebrenica to "deter" the Bosnian Serb army.

It didn't take long for the Bosnian Muslims to realize that the UN was in no position to live up to its promise to "protect" Srebrenica. With some help from outsiders, they began to infiltrate thousands of fighters and weapons into the safe haven. As the Bosnian Muslim fighters became better equipped and trained, they started to venture outside Srebrenica, burning Serb villages and killing their occupants before quickly withdrawing to the security provided by the UN's safe haven. These attacks reached a crescendo in 1994 and carried on into early 1995 after the Canadian infantry company that had been there for a year was replaced by a larger Dutch contingent.

The Bosnian Serbs might have had the heaviest weapons, but the Bosnian Muslims matched them in infantry skills that were much in demand in the rugged terrain around Srebrenica. As the snow cleared in the spring of 1995, it became obvious to Nasar Oric, the man who led the Bosnian Muslim fighters, that the Bosnian Serb army was going to attack Srebrenica to stop him from attacking Serb villages. So he and a large number of his fighters slipped out of town. Srebrenica was left undefended with the strategic thought that, if the Serbs attacked an undefended town, surely that would cause NATO and the UN to agree that NATO air strikes against the Serbs were justified. And so the Bosnian Serb army strolled into Srebrenica without opposition.

What happened next is only debatable in scale. The Bosnian Muslim men and older boys were singled out and the elderly, women and children were moved out or pushed in the direction of Tuzla and safety. It's a distasteful point, but it has to be said that, if you're committing genocide, you don't let the women go since they are key to perpetuating the very group you are trying to eliminate. Many of the men and boys were executed and buried in mass graves.

Evidence given at The Hague war crimes tribunal casts serious doubt on the figure of "up to" 8,000 Bosnian Muslims massacred. That figure includes "up to" 5,000 who have been classified as missing. More than 2,000 bodies have been recovered in and around Srebrenica, and they include victims of the three years of intense fighting in the area. The math just doesn't support the scale of 8,000 killed.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-real-story-behind-srebrenica/article737584/

And now a testimony that the Muslim leadership wanted a massacre over the Muslims in Srebrenica.

Hakija Meholjić, the Muslim police chief in Srebrenica at the time of the war:

I will try to tell you exactly what President Izetbegović said: "My dear people of Srebrenica, how are you?" "Fine, how are you, Mister President?" "Clinton has made me a proposal, if the Chetniks (Serbs) enter Srebrenica and slaughter 5,000 Moslems, there will be military intervention by NATO forces on Serb positions throughout Bosnia and Herzegovina. What do you think about that?" I jumped up and said: "Are you crazy? Who is going to be slaughtered, you will not be going to slaughter." So, that is what he said.



A footage of a staged shooting in Srebrenica. Serb soldiers are bringing tied-up Muslim POWs, firing blank rounds at them, they fall down on the ground, moments later, they stand up, and their hands are untied.



The first part of this staged shooting was presented on the Serbian B92 TV as a footage of the real shooting, with some anti-Christian propaganda too.



The question is, why would they create a video footage of a staged shooting? The truth may be, that these Serb soldiers who commited the war crime against the Muslims in Srebrenica were criminals paid by the Muslim side to shoot some Muslims in order to accuse the Serbs of a genocide and cause a NATO response against the Serbian side.
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2020, 09:35:45 AM »
Just to clarify this video footage of shooting in Srebrenica a bit more, as I looked to a longer version of the recordings today, it seems that some of the Muslims in this video footage were actually shot by a live ammo, and some of them were acting to have been shot. It is heard that after the shooting, one of the soldiers says: "Come on, boys, get up.", and few of them get up from the ground. It is unclear to me why some of the captured Muslims were participating in pretending of being shot in this footage. But the soldiers have recorded the video footage clearly for the purpose of accusing the Serb side of a genocide against the Muslims.

There is a Serbian man called Jugoslav Petrušić who was in Srebrenica at that time. Born in Serbia, Petrušić was hired by the French DST intelligence agency. He was a bodyguard of French President François Mitterrand, he also participated in French secret operations in their former colonies in Arab world and Africa. He says that the massacre over Muslim POWs in Srebrenica was committed by a multiethnic unit of the Bosnian Serb Army, consisted of criminals from various origins. According to him, the main perpetrators were an ethnic Slovenian in the Bosnian Serb Army, Franc Kos, and an ethnic Croatian in the Bosnian Serb Army, Dražen Erdemović. Petrušić says that two of them were fighting for the Croatian side until 1993, when they were infiltrated into the Bosnian Serb Army in order to committ a massacre in Srebrenica. He claims that he gave some documents to the Serbian intelligence in November of 1994 about a trap for the Serbian side in Srebrenica being planned, but no action was done to prevent it. Still working for the French at that time, Petrušić was in a helicopter over Srebrenica together with an assistant chief of the French intelligence, and they have photographed and counted 484 dead Muslim bodies in total at different locations around the city. Petrušić left the service to France in 1999 in order to help the Serbian side in Kosovo during the NATO bombing of Serbia. He claims he used his French connections to achieve NATO plans for bombing of Serbian targets, and that by this he saved thousands of Serbian soldiers' lives. In the middle of the war against NATO, he was arrested by some people in Serbian President Milošević's surrounding, who accused him of being a French spy, of planning an assassination of President Milošević, and of leading the massacre in Srebrenica in 1995. But he was released later with no verdict. That is when he discovered the plot by the Yugoslav communists in the Serbian government and the General Staff who also worked for Soros to intentionally lose the wars in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo, and also to create Serbian crimes over Muslims and Croatians. I have explained in my previous postings how the Communist Party of Yugoslavia and the Comintern have had the plans to destroy Yugoslavia since the 1920s, and Petrušić's testimony further proves that. He has done dozens of interviews in Serbian language, I have asked a You Tube channel Balkan Info, that did lots of interviews with him, if they could do some interview in English for the world public, but with no reply. It would be so interesting if you could hear his testimonies in English directly from him.
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2020, 04:19:48 AM »
Lol, what happened to my British mate Limey. Anyways, I was planning to post some more info. I will post five You Tube videos from the testimony of Mr. Jugoslav Petrušić at the UN court in Sarajevo in 2012 about the Srebrenica massacre, which contain simultaneous translation into English. But first, something that preceded it. And I find this writing from Mr. Jared Israel in 2005 explains it better than I would have managed to explain it in my own words.

Why should one read articles refuting the charge that Serbs committed mass murder in Srebrenica?

by Jared Israel, 10 June 2005

Why should people read articles challenging this massacre story? After all, it's consistent with what one has been told: that Srebrenica was a safe haven where the UN was supposed to protect Muslims from supposedly murderous Serbs; that the Muslims, portrayed in the media as an oppressed group, were moderate and tolerant while the Serbs were supposedly fanatical Muslim-haters with a Hitlerian vision of a mono-ethnic state; that therefore it was no surprise that when the Serbs took Srebrenica, they supposedly killed thousands of Muslims as fast as they could.

Why should you read material challenging the Srebrenica massacre story when you, dear reader, have limited time and you may have read nothing in the media that would cast doubt on any of the above?

My answer is, that is precisely why you should be skeptical about the massacre story.

How might the media objectively cover a bitter conflict like the one in Bosnia? First, it would endeavor to fairly report what each side said, giving them equal time. Then it would investigate claims. For example, if each side accused the other of spreading hate propaganda, the media might publish each side’s claims and then compare those claims to samples of each side’s propaganda, both written material and what was said at rallies and in mass meetings. If each accused the other of atrocities, the media could publish the accounts of both sides, and then do hard investigative work to see who - if anyone - was telling the truth. It would hunt for lies, because what people lie about is most revealing.

If you are like most, you have no idea what the Serbs said about what happened in and around Srebrenica from the time the Bosnian war started in the spring of 1992 until the so-called fall of Srebrenica in 1995. No idea at all. And therein lies the evidence that the media cannot be trusted about Srebrenica: because in fact, the Serbs said, and published, a great deal about Muslim extremist atrocities against them, but the Western media published virtually none of it.

In June 1993 the United Nations published a 132-page report entitled “Memorandum on War Crimes and Crimes of Genocide in Eastern Bosnia (communes of Bratunac, Skelani and Srebrenica) committed against the Serbian population from April 1992 to April 1993.” Note the dates: April 1992 was the very beginning of the war in Bosnia.  The Serbs charged that from the outset of the war the so-called Bosnian government (they say it was a government run by a faction of Muslims, the extremist faction) had a policy of genocide against Serbs.

You never heard of this document? I am not surprised. I checked with the Lexis-Nexis media search engine. I could not find a single English-language newspaper or TV news program that reported that it existed.

The undeniable fact that most people, at least (but not only) in the NATO countries, are completely ignorant of what the Serbs wrote and said about Muslim extremist crimes against Serbs in Eastern Bosnia, including Srebrenica, is sufficient to make a prima facie case that media reporting concerning Eastern Bosnia, including Srebrenica, has been anti-Serb propaganda, not news. Thus there is every reason for you to be skeptical concerning media claims about a supposed huge massacre by Serbs in Srebrenica. By suppressing virtually everything said and written by the Serbian side in the bitter Bosnian conflict, the media has perjured itself. Would you accept, on faith, the word of a perjured witness?

http://emperors-clothes.com/sreb/mem.htm

At the bottom of their web page, you can find the links to the six pdf files of the UN report scanned in original form, which contain the names and places and dates and testimonies.



The document was given UN id numbers A/46/171 and S/25635 and dated 2 June 1993. The picture above is taken from Alexander Dorin's book: "Srebrenica - what really happened", which was wrote in German, English, and Serbian, and contains the evidence of the Bosnian Muslim war crimes over the Bosnian Serb population around Srebrenica. Alexander Dorin is a Swiss citizen of Serbian origin. After he published his book, he was arrested by the Swiss authorities as a terrorist, and kept in a prison for 4 months, after which he was released because of the public pressure, with no charges or a verdict against him.

https://books.google.rs/books?id=4AjE3IJxO68C&printsec=frontcover&hl=sr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

This Google Books web page is just a preview of the book, but some pages are revealed.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 04:33:31 AM by milos »
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline milos

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Re: Muslim War Crimes Over Christians In Bosnia [18+]
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2020, 11:26:39 PM »
At each anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre, here in Serbian Soros-controlled Marxist mass media, we are being bombarded with Bosnian Muslim mothers weeping and crying over their murdered children, telling us that we have committed a "genocide" over the Muslims and that we must be eternally guilty and ashamed of it. But when we try to present evidence of the Muslim crimes over the Christian Serbs, the same media label us as "extremist" and "fascist" and accuse us of "hate speech" towards the Muslims. I don't know have you ever seen a video footage of Bosnian Serb mothers weeping and crying over their Christian children tortured and murdered by the Srebrenica Muslims in 1992, three years before the Srebrenica massacre of 1995? Why is this forbidden in Serbian and World mass media? To me as a man, it is even awful to watch this, because it's a women's thing, but it is important to know about this.



Man, there are more and more Muslim migrant attacks in Serbia each month, and the situation can easily escalate by the spring, with the people deciding to take care of the situation by their own hands, and Soros will then say that "innocent Muslim migrants are defending themselves from extremist nationalist fascist Serb aggressors in Serbia". Monday night, in the center of Belgrade, two Muslim migrants have attacked a man with his wife and brother, stabbed him with a knife, beating them all, and kicking them while they were laying on the ground in a pile of blood. Luckily, everyone survived, and the neighbors chased and catched the migrants and called the police to arrest them. But the media reported this incident as a "street fight", not mentioning that Muslim migrants were the attackers.
"Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far." - Thomas Jefferson

 

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