Author Topic: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.  (Read 2191 times)


Offline kit saginaw

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 10:19:23 PM »
Excellent article.  I wish I could've attended back then.  There would have been a great interest in her choice of the short-scoped Mosin-Nagant M91/30.  I'd like to fire one.  Somebody said that a bolt-action rifle is surprisingly easy to reacquire target-distance with, because of the feel-and-sounds of the 'routine'. 

And I'd be interested in knowing if she could obtain the same ammunition during the War.  Authentic, quickly-manufactured, or borrowed from airplane machine-gun stashes.   

I think Stalin wanted her pictures to feature an SVT-40, so the nazi's would be confused about which gun Private Pavlichenko was killing them with.

Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 12:17:58 PM »
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/01/american_sniper_chris_kyle_cou.html
Great story. Emphasis on the 'story' part.

For some reason, the phrase "Potemkin village" keeps running through my head.

Given the technology of the day, and considering the fact that she was fighting in an environment in which her side routinely engaged in the wholesale sacrifice of men and women and hectares of the Motherland in order to live to fight another day, I have my doubts about her entire story. Especially her claim of taking out a round three dozen enemy snipers in "duels" raises doubt, considering that other snipers throughout modern military history have discounted as propaganda and/or legend the stories of such sniper vs. sniper contests. Vasily Zaytsev, a Soviet sniper who racked up 225 kills, mostly in the incredibly 'target-rich' environment of the Stalingrad siege, claimed only 11 enemy snipers as kills, and none of those in so-called "duels." The only such "duel" he is associated with, between Zaytsev and Wehrmacht Major Erwin König, popularized in the movie Enemy at the Gates, probably never happened. Major König is widely believed to be a fictional character specifically created for dramatic effect for the movie.
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Offline kit saginaw

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 03:09:12 PM »
Vasily Zaytsev, a Soviet sniper who racked up 225 kills, mostly in the incredibly 'target-rich' environment of the Stalingrad siege, claimed only 11 enemy snipers as kills, and none of those in so-called "duels." The only such "duel" he is associated with, between Zaytsev and Wehrmacht Major Erwin König, popularized in the movie Enemy at the Gates, probably never happened. Major König is widely believed to be a fictional character specifically created for dramatic effect for the movie.

I've been wondering about that since the movie was released.  It's a small possibility that the men clashed.  But what plagued the Germans was sniping from behind, on ground they already held.  Would their 'specialist' be moving from front-to-rear every other day or so?  It seems unlikely.  And after Stalingrad was surrounded, no more Luftwaffe-shuttles. 

Offline TboneAgain

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 03:18:01 PM »
I've been wondering about that since the movie was released.  It's a small possibility that the men clashed.  But what plagued the Germans was sniping from behind, on ground they already held.  Would their 'specialist' be moving from front-to-rear every other day or so?  It seems unlikely.  And after Stalingrad was surrounded, no more Luftwaffe-shuttles.
I may not have made my point clearly. It's actually only a small possibility that Major Erwin König ever even existed. There is no historical data to indicate that he was a sniper in Stalingrad, or that he was a sniper, or even that he was a person. Zaytsev certainly never named him, and records of the time don't either.

I think maybe he was a construct of the movie-makers. To their credit, I admit that it was GREAT story-telling! But in the end, I think it was just that -- story-telling.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Offline kit saginaw

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 11:03:48 PM »
I may not have made my point clearly. It's actually only a small possibility that Major Erwin König ever even existed. There is no historical data to indicate that he was a sniper in Stalingrad, or that he was a sniper, or even that he was a person. Zaytsev certainly never named him, and records of the time don't either.

I think maybe he was a construct of the movie-makers. To their credit, I admit that it was GREAT story-telling! But in the end, I think it was just that -- story-telling.

You were clear.  I quoted the word 'specialist' assuming the character was based-on a real individual.  Part of the movie hinges on Berlin being so aware of the sniping-problem that they sent-in a master race counterfoil.  I'm pretty-sure that the Austrian-housepainter couldn't give a rat's ass about the Stalingrad sniping-problem.

I liked the movie.  But they could've scripted it differently.  Since they were determined to insert a romantic-angle to the good party-member vs. bad party-member message... and run it at 300-minutes, to capture the 'waiting' nature of the snipe.

Offline kalash

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 06:21:41 AM »
By the way, new movie coming out april based on story of Pavlichenko.
Trailer

Offline kit saginaw

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Re: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet markswoman.
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 11:53:01 PM »
Wow, it looks excellent.  With high production-values.  I hope the film comes to America.  It looks like it should appeal to a wide audience.

 

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