Quote from: Solar on August 29, 2014, 06:53:32 AM
Quit doubling down on stupid

The ISG report is against you on this. The weapons needed a stabilization agent, like DIC, that the Iraqis had little to no supply of, and, binary agent warheads were only experimental in the Iraqis inventory. They made barely 100 for prototyping, suspected to include one 152mm shell that was exploded as an IED in 2004. Did little to nothing.

The VX strains meanwhile were so impure and unstable that the Iraqis abandoned the effort altogether. They weren't even weaponized.

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 29, 2014, 07:36:15 AM


The ISG report is against you on this. The weapons needed a stabilization agent, like DIC, that the Iraqis had little to no supply of, and, binary agent warheads were only experimental in the Iraqis inventory. They made barely 100 for prototyping, suspected to include one 152mm shell that was exploded as an IED in 2004. Did little to nothing.

The VX strains meanwhile were so impure and unstable that the Iraqis abandoned the effort altogether. They weren't even weaponized.

More undaunted belief in govt, or in this case, a communist UN.
Why do you insist on believing everything govt feeds you?
Oh that's right, you're nothing but a lib.

Quote from: Solar on August 29, 2014, 08:52:23 AM
More undaunted belief in govt, or in this case, a communist UN.

The Iraq Survey Group were Americans, personally chosen by President Bush and his advisers, along with nationals from the "Coalition of the willing".

Read on them.

QuoteWhy do you insist on believing everything govt feeds you?

It was a Gov't that insisted there were weapons in Iraq to begin with.

I did believe them. Now I know better.

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 29, 2014, 09:00:05 AM
The Iraq Survey Group were Americans, personally chosen by President Bush and his advisers, along with nationals from the "Coalition of the willing".

Read on them.
It was a Gov't that insisted there were weapons in Iraq to begin with.

I did believe them. Now I know better.

Remember all those chem weapons found in Syria recently?

QuoteThe man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."
http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/

Now go away, you bother me!

Quote from: Solar on August 29, 2014, 10:31:37 AM
Remember all those chem weapons found in Syria recently?
Now go away, you bother me!

Don't confuse his fantasy with actual facts....it messes up his limited thought process!

Quote from: Solar on August 29, 2014, 10:31:37 AM
Remember all those chem weapons found in Syria recently?

Remember that Syria had its own Chemical Weapons program? And started producing them around the same time Iraq did, without the '91 interruption? (They even have VX, which Iraq's program failed at.)

Also remember, the planes, which are oddly not mentioned in the ISG report (with all of those resources, you'd think they'd notice it at least at the same time Fox News did), turned out to be apart of the Iraqi response to a dam break in Syria in 2002?

QuoteThe large Zeyzoun earth dam, located in the agricultural Al-Ghab region some 300 km north of Damascus, collapsed on 4 June 2002. The impact of the released water caused serious damage in nearby populated areas with resultant casualties .

    To date some 20 people are known to have been killed, and this figure is not likely to change. It is estimated that over 10,000 people were directly affected by this incident to varying degrees, with at least 2,000 rendered completely homeless.

    Six days after the disaster, it is considered that the humanitarian situation resulting from this accident is largely under control as a result of a swift and targeted response by the Provincial and Central Syrian authorities. A rapid reaction by the international community, which sent large quantities of emergency supplies, also contributed to quickly stabilize the situation.

...

Iraq has sent 12 airplanes with food, medicines and blankets, and also dispatched a 12-member medical team.

Also seems strange Iraq would send them these weapons, considering they weren't friends. Al Assad is of a small Shia sect, Saddam owed his allegiance to the Sunni.

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 29, 2014, 01:50:54 PM
Remember that Syria had its own Chemical Weapons program? And started producing them around the same time Iraq did, without the '91 interruption? (They even have VX, which Iraq's program failed at.)

Also remember, the planes, which are oddly not mentioned in the ISG report (with all of those resources, you'd think they'd notice it at least at the same time Fox News did), turned out to be apart of the Iraqi response to a dam break in Syria in 2002?

Also seems strange Iraq would send them these weapons, considering they weren't friends. Al Assad is of a small Shia sect, Saddam owed his allegiance to the Sunni.

Seriously, WIKI?
That''s it, speculation? Also Saddam didn't give a damn about Sunni or Shia, he was a dictator that didn't want to get caught with his pants down so he sent them out of country.

QuoteIn 2006, former Iraqi general, Georges Sada, who served under Saddam Hussein before he defected, wrote a comprehensive book detailing how the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria, before the US-led action to eliminate Saddam Hussein's WMD threat, by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.
As reported in the New York Sun on January 26, 2006:
"'There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands,' Mr. Sada said. 'I am confident they were taken over.'"
"Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam 'transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria.'
"Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003...
"The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a UN investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the UN investigation."

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq-.htm#ixzz2E7mjc0Dz
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/07/14/And-where-did-syrias-chemical-weapons

Quote from: Bowhntr on August 29, 2014, 01:26:02 PM
Don't confuse his fantasy with actual facts....it messes up his limited thought process!

He doesn't know when to quit, so watch, he'll double down on stupid.

My head hurts.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 29, 2014, 05:07:45 PM
My head hurts.

Mine too, so it's time to move this nonsense.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on August 29, 2014, 05:07:45 PM
My head hurts.

Quote from: Solar on August 29, 2014, 03:14:30 PM
Seriously, WIKI?

That excuse only works if the page lists no sources. Fortunately, it does.

"The report details the Syrian chemical weapons programme, which it says began in the 1970s with the importing of chemical weapons. It states that Damascus has more than 1,000 tonnes of chemical agents making it "one of the most important operational stocks in the world". It describes Syria's chemical arsenal as "particularly massive and diverse", including Yperite, VX (one of the most toxic chemical agents known) and "several hundred tonnes of sarin".

"The sarin and the VX ... are partly stocked in a binary form, that is to say kept in the form of two chemical products called precursors, that are mixed just before use. This technique and the associated procedures show a great knowledge of the technology of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime.""

QuoteThat''s it, speculation? Also Saddam didn't give a damn about Sunni or Shia,

Sunnis were his power base, it's the reason they made the bulk of the insurgency in '04-09. They were angry at us for ruining their good ride.

Quotehttp://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-weapons-came-from-iraq-.htm#ixzz2E7mjc0Dz

Yeah, already heard about him. Unfortunately, he wasn't part of Saddam's inner circle, Saddam kept his command purposefully fragmented so as not to challenge his power. This meant he was in the dark for plenty of Saddam's actions, even if they were benign. The ISG meanwhile took testimony from the scientists inside the WMD program itself, which is why they say this:

Quote"ISG judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place", the report said. The report said that 12 years of international sanctions against Baghdad after the Gulf War had left Iraq's scientific community decimated and these experts' skills in a state of "natural decay".

The group added it was unlikely that scientists were capable of re-creating the destroyed weapons programs, meaning Iraq would have possessed little, if anything, to transfer.

QuoteDavid Kay told the House and Senate intelligence committees, "We have not yet found stocks of weapons... We have not yet been able to corroborate the existence of a mobile BW (biological weapons) production effort... Multiple sources (say) that Iraq did not have a large, ongoing, centrally controlled CW (chemical warfare) program after 1991.... [and] to date we have not uncovered evidence that Iraq undertook significant post-1998 steps to actually build nuclear weapons or produce fissile material.... [and] no detainee has admitted any actual knowledge of plans for unconventional warheads for any current or planned ballistic missile".

...detainees interviewed by the group "uniformly denied any knowledge of residual WMD that could have been secreted to Syria"

Other claims the General has made equally proved faulty. He claimed Iraq was in-on the 9/11 attacks planning and execution, and that Iraq was willingly helping Al Qaeda and training operatives.

Both of these things were denied by the 9/11 commission report.

The General is a charlatan. He wasn't there in person to see these WMDs, he never gave names for those who supposedly did, the ISG couldn't locate one scrap of corroborating physical evidence, even as they uncovered mountains of dual-paperwork that explains the programs existence, the people who made it happen, and locating other weapon systems the Iraqis didn't want them to find.

General Sada was simply telling people what they wanted to hear. Just like the other informant, Curveball.

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 29, 2014, 08:42:47 PM
That excuse only works if the page lists no sources. Fortunately, it does.

"The report details the Syrian chemical weapons programme, which it says began in the 1970s with the importing of chemical weapons. It states that Damascus has more than 1,000 tonnes of chemical agents making it "one of the most important operational stocks in the world". It describes Syria's chemical arsenal as "particularly massive and diverse", including Yperite, VX (one of the most toxic chemical agents known) and "several hundred tonnes of sarin".

"The sarin and the VX ... are partly stocked in a binary form, that is to say kept in the form of two chemical products called precursors, that are mixed just before use. This technique and the associated procedures show a great knowledge of the technology of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime.""
Sunnis were his power base, it's the reason they made the bulk of the insurgency in '04-09. They were angry at us for ruining their good ride.
Yeah, already heard about him. Unfortunately, he wasn't part of Saddam's inner circle, Saddam kept his command purposefully fragmented so as not to challenge his power. This meant he was in the dark for plenty of Saddam's actions, even if they were benign. The ISG meanwhile took testimony from the scientists inside the WMD program itself, which is why they say this:
Other claims the General has made equally proved faulty. He claimed Iraq was in-on the 9/11 attacks planning and execution, and that Iraq was willingly helping Al Qaeda and training operatives.

Both of these things were denied by the 9/11 commission report.

The General is a charlatan. He wasn't there in person to see these WMDs, he never gave names for those who supposedly did, the ISG couldn't locate one scrap of corroborating physical evidence, even as they uncovered mountains of dual-paperwork that explains the programs existence, the people who made it happen, and locating other weapon systems the Iraqis didn't want them to find.

General Sada was simply telling people what they wanted to hear. Just like the other informant, Curveball.

Do you remember the convoy that left Iraq for Syria that got away?
I'll take the witnesses word over that of the UN, a  bunch of commies and Muscum.
It's obvious you lack something integral to all of this, understanding global "Politics", so lets see if you can figure out on your own why the UN decided on not pursuing the issue of WMDs in Syria on your own.

QuoteOutgoing UN Human Rights Commissioner Navi Pillay takes swipe at Security Council
The five permanent members -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- wield veto power on the council, and their use highlights deep divisions.

In May, Russia and China vetoed a draft resolution giving the International Criminal Court the green light to open cases for war crimes prosecution in the Syria conflict.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-08-21/news/53072767_1_security-council-15-member-council-syria-conflict

QuoteSyria, Iran Bid For UN Human Rights Council Seats Met With Understandable Incredulity
UNITED NATIONS -- The United States on Thursday slammed Syria and Iran for seeking seats on the U.N.'s Human Rights Council, saying their own rights violations are under U.N. investigation.

Syria and Iran are candidates to join the 47-nation Geneva-based Council, along with other often-criticized nations such as Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Chad, Vietnam and Russia.

Syria is embroiled in a brutal civil war, with human rights groups blaming both President Basher Assad's government and the Syrian rebels for abuses. Iran is a key Syrian ally, and is also criticized for jailing political prisoners, executing drug offenders.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/11/syria-iran-un-human-right_n_3582481.html

QuoteUN Elevates Syria: Business as Usual
Mr. President, what the Commission of Inquiry has just described is a living hell. Faced with continuing reports of Syria's mass murder, torture, rape, and gassing of civilians by chemical weapons, how is the United Nations responding?

With notable exceptions, this inquiry being one, the UN's policy toward Syria can be described in three words: business as usual.

Consider the following. In November 2011, well into Syria's atrocities, UNESCO elected the Syrian regime—unanimously—to its human rights committee.

I ask the commission: what message did the UN send, when—up until only a few  months ago—it allowed the Assad regime to sit as a judge of petitions submitted by human rights victims from around the world?
http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2014/06/18/un-elevates-syria-business-as-usual/

Quote from: Solar on August 30, 2014, 09:35:40 AM
Do you remember the convoy that left Iraq for Syria that got away?

Do you remember the head of the ISG addressing that, saying based on interrogations, the items sent to Syria were either conventional or not even weapons at all?

QuoteIt's obvious you lack something integral to all of this, understanding global "Politics", so lets see if you can figure out on your own why the UN decided on not pursuing the issue of WMDs in Syria on your own.

And it's obvious you won't read the ISG report because you're afraid of what it says. You also try to use the U.N. Accusations as a shield, when it's hand picked Bush administration officials that gave us the evidence of why everything was either wrong or circumstantial.

George Bush himself already gave up the ghost, he admits the intelligence was wrong and wished it had been better:

"The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq... I wish the intelligence had been different, I guess."

By continuing this argument, you are insisting you or whatever news outlet you get your information from knows better than the president, and the people who were on the ground for years in Iraq, with help of the CIA and the US army, looking for any trace of the weapons once thought to be there.

All those resources, all that manpower, all of their witnesses, couldn't find the justification the administration was hungry for. Saddam himself denied to the very end he had any weapons, and it seems he was finally telling the truth.

Quote from: Alaska Slim on August 30, 2014, 11:42:44 AM
Do you remember the head of the ISG addressing that, saying based on interrogations, the items sent to Syria were either conventional or not even weapons at all?
And it's obvious you won't read the ISG report because you're afraid of what it says. You also try to use the U.N. Accusations as a shield, when it's hand picked Bush administration officials that gave us the evidence of why everything was either wrong or circumstantial.

George Bush himself already gave up the ghost, he admits the intelligence was wrong and wished it had been better:

"The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq... I wish the intelligence had been different, I guess."

By continuing this argument, you are insisting you or whatever news outlet you get your information from knows better than the president, and the people who were on the ground for years in Iraq, with help of the CIA and the US army, looking for any trace of the weapons once thought to be there.

All those resources, all that manpower, all of their witnesses, couldn't find the justification the administration was hungry for. Saddam himself denied to the very end he had any weapons, and it seems he was finally telling the truth.

Again, you put wayyy to much trust in govt to tell the truth, especially ours, over the last 30 years.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows, and sometimes our enemies enemy is our friend. In other words, trust no one where their best interests are at stake.

This chess game countries play is far more sophisticated than you could ever wrap your head around, and for you to take their word at face value is nothing short of naive.