Is The Military Splitting With Obama?

Started by supsalemgr, August 22, 2014, 12:10:59 PM

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supsalemgr

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/22/military-brass-ex-officials-pressure-white-house-to-expand-isis-fight-to-syria/

Or is it just part of the "Limbaugh Theorem"?

I find it a little unusual that Hagel and Dempsey would come out simultaneously call for more action against ISIS. This goes against anything we have seen from this administration. They are usually all on the same page. This is why I pose the question about the "Limbaugh Theorem".

We all know Obama does not want to be out alone on something, especially something about national security or defense. I can picture Obama having to make the call for more action and then saying he didn't want to do it, but his national security team felt it necessary. Alas, he has hopefully appeased the far left base.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Solar

"IF" he does anything, it will be done under the leadership of another country, giving plausible deniability to his withdraw from Iraq.
He can claim he's merely assisting other countries, in there battle against terrorism.

The man is a complete and arrant fraud and so are the toadies he's placed in charge of the Pentagon.
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Alaska Slim

^ General Dempsey is a good man, and a good soldier, I have not seen strange acts from him.

"Fact -- the only thing more piping hot than Mom's fresh apple pie, is the sting of my anti-lowlife-terrorist mag-popper. Want a slice?!?"

Aristophanes

I cannot help but think that they did this with full permission from the Executive branch, and only that Obama had not the courage to announce a clear reason to return to the Middle East. This is because, without a clear moral objective, coinciding with clear political objectives, we truly should not return, and doing so would only cause more harm than good. "Creating Stability" is an impossible abstract because only clear and definite terms can create stability. Full Occupation coinciding with full marshall law, creating a military-governed temporary province until enough Americans can immigrate and plebiscites may be held to create statehood. If the local populace is uncooperative to an extent greater than expected, then American immigrants that sign on with the military shall be given wealth and land in the middle east, if they are willing to live there, wealth and land taken from uncooperative locals. However, if locals are cooperative, and publicly execute any from among them that may conspire to do terrorism, and no terrorism has occurred for a respectable amount of time, then marshall law shall be lifted in the province or district or township where this exemplary behavior exists. Work with us and you will be lifted up, work against us and you will be evicted from your homes, and either banished or imprisoned as deed dictates, if not outright executed. It is also with this due process that we will treat the peoples of West Bank and Gaza, if Israel becomes an American State. However once Israel patriates into the United States Gaza and West Bank will be given full immunity for past actions and a clean slate when considering province status. However they will be subjected to the same harsh treatments as any other American colony in the middle east, and if they continue the violence then they will either accept their banishment or their living spaces shall be bombed with tear gas and pepper spray until they sign a decree accepting either submission or banishment. Violence will not be tolerated. If Israeli conducts any similar actions without US authority similar, yet less harsh, measures shall be used against them as well. What we want is not one-sided slaughter, but a clear division between those cooperating with the US and those not. Instead of the current situation where Saudi Arabia and QATAR buy weapons from US and at the same time fund and supply weapons to terrorists. With eastern colonies and American owned oil reserves outside of our current domestic lands, we will have more leverage in controlling the middle east. With Russia in Europe, China in Asia, and Brazil and Venezuela in South America, we are well positioned to let the rest of the world free to their own devices and declaring the middle east (west and south of Iran) to be our Sphere of Influence in the new modern world. Direct colonies need only include Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan. Turkey should remain a cool ally, and may grow warmer if we remove all bases from Turkey and move them into Iraq. Persia/Iran may remain as non-belligerent rivals if they wish, however trade partnerships may flourish in a world where America sticks its flag into the ground and decides to remain fixed in its position on regional politics. With a clear and decisive moral ground, even our enemies will become more friendly, as it will no longer seem that we play all sides of the coin for some ambiguous and short-sighted gains, but instead that we sit fixed on a given position and declare it openly for all the world to see. Egypt is a clear ally of course. Arabia and like-minded nations of the region should also be given some leniency, but possible links to terrorism should be investigated by 'advisers.'

Another move that will dramatically improve our relations in the middle east is to cease all drone-strike operations in the middle east and only conduct drones for passive reconnaissance. AND to move to have drone-strikes illegal in US soil, including any region that becomes a military province or colony of the United States. Anti-terrorism should over-all increase, but it should be done by elite soldiers and agents on the ground. Not with large armies, but with a large number of independently operating veterans that are expert in close-quarters combat AND are relatively familiar with local customs and culture, and are somewhat experienced with working closely with the locals. Only by turning many locals INTO us citizens, and by turning the rest into ALLIES of the us, only then may we truly declare ourselves victorious in any one region within the middle east. And it is with the threat of marshal law, with the threat of property seizure and banishment, and with the promise of citizenship and states rights, and backed by an endless supply of independently operating covert agents that we may begin to see a progress, not in the war on terrorism, but in the struggle to redefine ourselves after Vietnam, in the war for the moral high ground and for national solidarity, that we see so little of today, and in the war to cement how others view us, that we may begin to improve worldwide relations by focusing all foreign operations in only one geopolitical theater. Then we may start to get at least a trickle of applause from the global community, and certainly a grudging admiration from even our worst enemies.

Solar

Quote from: Aristophanes on August 23, 2014, 09:57:49 PM
I cannot help but think that they did this with full permission from the Executive branch, and only that Obama had not the courage to announce a clear reason to return to the Middle East. This is because, without a clear moral objective, coinciding with clear political objectives, we truly should not return, and doing so would only cause more harm than good. "Creating Stability" is an impossible abstract because only clear and definite terms can create stability. Full Occupation coinciding with full marshall law, creating a military-governed temporary province until enough Americans can immigrate and plebiscites may be held to create statehood. If the local populace is uncooperative to an extent greater than expected, then American immigrants that sign on with the military shall be given wealth and land in the middle east, if they are willing to live there, wealth and land taken from uncooperative locals. However, if locals are cooperative, and publicly execute any from among them that may conspire to do terrorism, and no terrorism has occurred for a respectable amount of time, then marshall law shall be lifted in the province or district or township where this exemplary behavior exists. Work with us and you will be lifted up, work against us and you will be evicted from your homes, and either banished or imprisoned as deed dictates, if not outright executed. It is also with this due process that we will treat the peoples of West Bank and Gaza, if Israel becomes an American State. However once Israel patriates into the United States Gaza and West Bank will be given full immunity for past actions and a clean slate when considering province status. However they will be subjected to the same harsh treatments as any other American colony in the middle east, and if they continue the violence then they will either accept their banishment or their living spaces shall be bombed with tear gas and pepper spray until they sign a decree accepting either submission or banishment. Violence will not be tolerated. If Israeli conducts any similar actions without US authority similar, yet less harsh, measures shall be used against them as well. What we want is not one-sided slaughter, but a clear division between those cooperating with the US and those not. Instead of the current situation where Saudi Arabia and QATAR buy weapons from US and at the same time fund and supply weapons to terrorists. With eastern colonies and American owned oil reserves outside of our current domestic lands, we will have more leverage in controlling the middle east. With Russia in Europe, China in Asia, and Brazil and Venezuela in South America, we are well positioned to let the rest of the world free to their own devices and declaring the middle east (west and south of Iran) to be our Sphere of Influence in the new modern world. Direct colonies need only include Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan. Turkey should remain a cool ally, and may grow warmer if we remove all bases from Turkey and move them into Iraq. Persia/Iran may remain as non-belligerent rivals if they wish, however trade partnerships may flourish in a world where America sticks its flag into the ground and decides to remain fixed in its position on regional politics. With a clear and decisive moral ground, even our enemies will become more friendly, as it will no longer seem that we play all sides of the coin for some ambiguous and short-sighted gains, but instead that we sit fixed on a given position and declare it openly for all the world to see. Egypt is a clear ally of course. Arabia and like-minded nations of the region should also be given some leniency, but possible links to terrorism should be investigated by 'advisers.'

Another move that will dramatically improve our relations in the middle east is to cease all drone-strike operations in the middle east and only conduct drones for passive reconnaissance. AND to move to have drone-strikes illegal in US soil, including any region that becomes a military province or colony of the United States. Anti-terrorism should over-all increase, but it should be done by elite soldiers and agents on the ground. Not with large armies, but with a large number of independently operating veterans that are expert in close-quarters combat AND are relatively familiar with local customs and culture, and are somewhat experienced with working closely with the locals. Only by turning many locals INTO us citizens, and by turning the rest into ALLIES of the us, only then may we truly declare ourselves victorious in any one region within the middle east. And it is with the threat of marshal law, with the threat of property seizure and banishment, and with the promise of citizenship and states rights, and backed by an endless supply of independently operating covert agents that we may begin to see a progress, not in the war on terrorism, but in the struggle to redefine ourselves after Vietnam, in the war for the moral high ground and for national solidarity, that we see so little of today, and in the war to cement how others view us, that we may begin to improve worldwide relations by focusing all foreign operations in only one geopolitical theater. Then we may start to get at least a trickle of applause from the global community, and certainly a grudging admiration from even our worst enemies.

If you can't learn structure, I'm going to start deleting your posts, and that goes for length as well.
Keeping it concise is what attracts readers, your crap drives them away and makes the forum look amateurish.

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Mountainshield

Quote from: Aristophanes on August 23, 2014, 09:57:49 PM
I cannot help but think that they did this............

TLDR dude  :laugh:

http://www.hoover.org/research/size-isnt-all-matters

I don't think any US response is going to help fight IS, unless you are willing to go in and KKND (krush, kill and destroy) the civilian support, infrastructure and completely humiliate the enemy the way Richard Nixon won the Vietnam War any "surgical" strike (which is just another term for restricted low force strike) is just going to trumph up support for IS and give them the impression that the west is weak and not able to commit to winning a war.

It's better to not give any response and let IS expose Islam for what it is instead of playing into the hands of the leftist and IS and tiptoe attack the enemy here and there.

supsalemgr

Just when you think this crowd may have found some sanity they reverse course. I see the WH got to Dempsey and he is walking back the threat ISIS poses to the US. The lack of leadership by Obama is totally unbelievable!
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Aristophanes

#7
Quote from: Mountainshield on August 25, 2014, 03:41:02 AM
TLDR dude  :laugh:

http://www.hoover.org/research/size-isnt-all-matters

I don't think any US response is going to help fight IS, unless you are willing to go in and KKND (krush, kill and destroy) the civilian support, infrastructure and completely humiliate the enemy the way Richard Nixon won the Vietnam War any "surgical" strike (which is just another term for restricted low force strike) is just going to trumph up support for IS and give them the impression that the west is weak and not able to commit to winning a war.

It's better to not give any response and let IS expose Islam for what it is instead of playing into the hands of the leftist and IS and tiptoe attack the enemy here and there.

What is needed is not Krush/Kill/Destroy .... but instead full and permanent occupation AKA Sphere of Influence.

ISIS gives pretext to a full US involvement because they inherently prove that the old strategy is either wrong or incomplete.

What the US needs to do is to use the region's history of violence as a pre-text for establishing full military control of the region and to deal out harsh penalties to all locals that violently oppose US rule in any way.

STEP ONE: Ban all weaponry from all Muslims under US rule within the middle east.

STEP TWO: Cut off the hands of any Muslim caught with a weapon.

STEP THREE: Banish the entire family of any Muslim caught with STILL ACTIVE connections with known terrorists.

STEP FOUR: Occupy all major cities 24/7 with elite forces, buy off or banish all local authority, and establish United States citizens as the governing bodies of the major cities and modernize them with all modern standards for liberty and freedom.

STEP FIVE: Allow the smaller towns and villages to retain their traditionalist values and allow them to remain largely independent without any military intervention. Ban any US soldier to travel to any small town without direct authority, preferably only for Aid/Relief campaigns and military action.

STEP SIX: Any disruption of Supply lines will be seen as an act of war by any nearby town or village, and dealt with accordingly.

STEP SEVEN: Any act of terrorism within a region will lead to 400 days of ZERO civil liberties for every non-US citizen within the region, and within such time the establishment of a US authorized SECRET POLICE that is not held to the Geneva convention will operate to eradicate all subversive elements and religious extremists. Within this 400 days all Islamic institutions will restricted to operating only one day of the week, except for holidays such as Ramadan, and every day of operation will be monitored and occupied by members of the Secret Police.

STEP EIGHT: Stop all aerial bombings and Drone strikes. Any counter-terrorism should be swift, ruthless, and land-based only. Use of aircraft such as helicopters for transport is of course authorized, but no rockets or missiles should be fired, and helicopters should unload their soldiers about 5 miles away from any known combat zone. Most operations should be done by Commandos, Secret Police, Mercenaries and Assassins, however some Tank-based operations may prove necessary. Terrorism should be dealt with by Kidnappings and Banishment, not Bombs and Artillery Shells.

EIGHT.2   The only time rockets, bombs, and artillery shells should be used, in my opinion, would be once resistance has organized into an army. While they are fragmented and integrated within the civilian population the only way to deal with them is to establish a multi-generational police state until ORDER is fully established.

Meanwhile, Cities and Regions that fully cooperate with the US should be given a relative independence, albeit still with US citizens as the local political leadership. Such regions should only lose their rights if it can be proven that they are in any way connected to subversive elements within the other regions.

It is my ethical opinion that the removal of civil rights is both justified and mandatory in the middle east in regions where violence and atrocity are common.

Solar

Quote from: Aristophanes on August 27, 2014, 07:18:21 PM
What is needed is not Krush/Kill/Destroy .... but instead full and permanent occupation AKA Sphere of Influence.
And how would you achieve that without all out war?
ISIS gives pretext to a full US involvement because they inherently prove that the old strategy is either wrong or incomplete.

What the US needs to do is to use the region's history of violence as a pre-text for establishing full military control of the region and to deal out harsh penalties to all locals that violently oppose US rule in any way.

QuoteSTEP ONE: Ban all weaponry from all Muslims under US rule within the middle east.

STEP TWO: Cut off the hands of any Muslim caught with a weapon.
This idea you have, would that apply to Muscum living here in the US that are financially supporting these scum?
After all, they are equally guilty as if they had pulled the trigger themselves.
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Aristophanes

Quote from: Solar on August 27, 2014, 07:32:38 PM
This idea you have, would that apply to Muscum living here in the US that are financially supporting these scum?
After all, they are equally guilty as if they had pulled the trigger themselves.

Any Muslims with financial ties to their homelands should be heavily encouraged to return to their homeland after the US establishes its power base there. If they are cooperative with the US then they become part of the local leadership. If they resist US rule then they shall be banished to places such as Guantanamo Bay.

IF it can be proven that any US citizen is funding the terrorists in the middle east, then they shall be deported to Canada and put on a no fly list and a no sail list, in an attempt to prevent all possible Transport (except as a stow away) by Air or Sea. Being deported/banished to Canada will also put them on a list to never enter the US again, and if Canada cooperates, we could even place them in US owned prisons within the icy tundra of northern Canada.

Solar

Quote from: Aristophanes on August 27, 2014, 07:53:35 PM
Any Muslims with financial ties to their homelands should be heavily encouraged to return to their homeland after the US establishes its power base there. If they are cooperative with the US then they become part of the local leadership. If they resist US rule then they shall be banished to places such as Guantanamo Bay.

IF it can be proven that any US citizen is funding the terrorists in the middle east, then they shall be deported to Canada and put on a no fly list and a no sail list, in an attempt to prevent all possible Transport (except as a stow away) by Air or Sea. Being deported/banished to Canada will also put them on a list to never enter the US again, and if Canada cooperates, we could even place them in US owned prisons within the icy tundra of northern Canada.
What makes you think Canada wants terrorist sympathizers/supporters?

Just a little advice, think before you write stuff out, give it serious thought, reference history, our laws.
What you're proposing is unconstitutional.
Kicking American citizens out of the country, really?
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Rusty Snippets

The military is under civilian control, that's just the way it was designed. Every CIC appoints his own political generals. The military is under the control of the White House. Period. You're seeing it now with Dempsey walking back his rowdy talk.
Obama's approval ratings are so low...... the Kenyans are accusing him of being born in the USA!

Aristophanes

Quote from: Solar on August 27, 2014, 08:07:11 PM
What makes you think Canada wants terrorist sympathizers/supporters?

Just a little advice, think before you write stuff out, give it serious thought, reference history, our laws.
What you're proposing is unconstitutional.
Kicking American citizens out of the country, really?

Of course Canada wouldn't want such people within their borders, however if Canada allowed us to do this then it would open up an alternative to direct imprisonment. We could open up prisons in either Alaksa or Northern Canada to become a sort of 'American Gulag' system.

What I am proposing is not unconstitutional. Aiding terrorists is an act of treason, and I believe that Treason is a crime that is constitutionally punishable by death. I see my proposal of banishment and unusual imprisonment as smarter alternatives.

surfer_squirrel

Quote from: Solar on August 22, 2014, 12:18:57 PM
"IF" he does anything, it will be done under the leadership of another country, giving plausible deniability to his withdraw from Iraq.
He can claim he's merely assisting other countries, in there battle against terrorism.

The man is a complete and arrant fraud and so are the toadies he's placed in charge of the Pentagon.
Could this be the reason for obama agreeing to a german officer being put in command of American forces in Europe?
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140731/NEWS08/307310070/German-officer-serve-U-S-Army-Europe-s-chief-staff
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