Author Topic: Welcome Thread for Newbie  (Read 55977 times)

Offline Béal Feirste

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #570 on: February 14, 2017, 07:57:28 AM »
You're not alone. It was ably said long ago that there are two things in life that one must never see: the making of sausage, or the making of laws in the U.S. Congress.

Oh my, I've seen the making of a sausage :unsure:

But when I say I find American politics odd...consider something like healthcare: everybody here supports the NHS; liberals, socialists, and conservatives alike (though all have different ideas on how to improve it) but in the States public health care is an exclusively liberal/socialist position I think. Also liberal and socialist seem to mean the same thing and I cannot emphasize how WEIRD that is to me.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 08:26:51 AM by Béal Feirste »
Nope

Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #571 on: February 14, 2017, 09:16:05 AM »
Oh my, I've seen the making of a sausage :unsure:

But when I say I find American politics odd...consider something like healthcare: everybody here supports the NHS; liberals, socialists, and conservatives alike (though all have different ideas on how to improve it) but in the States public health care is an exclusively liberal/socialist position I think. Also liberal and socialist seem to mean the same thing and I cannot emphasize how WEIRD that is to me.

In our political lexicon socialist and liberal are the same. People are now figuring them out and they are trying to relabel themselves as progressive.

Conservatives do not like public health care because it removes the individual from making their own decisions concerning health care.
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Offline taxed

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #572 on: February 14, 2017, 09:24:50 AM »
Oh my, I've seen the making of a sausage :unsure:

But when I say I find American politics odd...consider something like healthcare: everybody here supports the NHS; liberals, socialists, and conservatives alike (though all have different ideas on how to improve it) but in the States public health care is an exclusively liberal/socialist position I think. Also liberal and socialist seem to mean the same thing and I cannot emphasize how WEIRD that is to me.

Everything the government touches, it destroys.  Look at the California infrastructure right now.  Look at the VA. We don't want a crappy health system like the NHS or some other third world system.
"Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government."  -Milton Friedman

Online Solar

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #573 on: February 14, 2017, 09:26:17 AM »
Oh my, I've seen the making of a sausage :unsure:

But when I say I find American politics odd...consider something like healthcare: everybody here supports the NHS; liberals, socialists, and conservatives alike (though all have different ideas on how to improve it) but in the States public health care is an exclusively liberal/socialist position I think. Also liberal and socialist seem to mean the same thing and I cannot emphasize how WEIRD that is to me.
How is that weird? Here in the US, it's now gotten to the point, if you're a liberal Progressive, you're a Marxist. It really is that simple.
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Offline Béal Feirste

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #574 on: February 14, 2017, 12:56:40 PM »
How is that weird? Here in the US, it's now gotten to the point, if you're a liberal Progressive, you're a Marxist. It really is that simple.
It's just weird because liberals here are very different from socialists. Liberals support free trade, free market, and individualism. Socialists tend to favor greater state intervention into unprofitable industries, confusing regulation and a nationalization of the means of production. Conservatives are really big on barriers to free trade, security, and strong borders. Each label is different from the other.
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Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #575 on: February 14, 2017, 01:05:56 PM »
It's just weird because liberals here are very different from socialists. Liberals support free trade, free market, and individualism. Socialists tend to favor greater state intervention into unprofitable industries, confusing regulation and a nationalization of the means of production. Conservatives are really big on barriers to free trade, security, and strong borders. Each label is different from the other.

Conservatives here believe this also. I will expand that we believe trade deals should be equal for both parties.
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Online Solar

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #576 on: February 14, 2017, 02:04:20 PM »
It's just weird because liberals here are very different from socialists. Liberals support free trade, free market, and individualism. Socialists tend to favor greater state intervention into unprofitable industries, confusing regulation and a nationalization of the means of production. Conservatives are really big on barriers to free trade, security, and strong borders. Each label is different from the other.
Interesting. Here is literally split left and right, with socialist Marxists/communist on the left, and Liberty/Freedom loving free mkt capitalists on the right.
The left have so divided everyone, that they destroyed the middle as well as killed off their own party.
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Offline milos

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #577 on: February 17, 2017, 04:30:58 AM »
It's just weird because liberals here are very different from socialists. Liberals support free trade, free market, and individualism. Socialists tend to favor greater state intervention into unprofitable industries, confusing regulation and a nationalization of the means of production. Conservatives are really big on barriers to free trade, security, and strong borders. Each label is different from the other.

I believe there is a confusion about the naming of different political concepts made in the public intentionally in order to mislead the people. Meaning of the words are being intentionally turned upside down. What we call "liberal" in Europe still usually means "classical liberal", while in America "classical liberals" are now being called "libertarians", which term is not in use in Europe, and that is because the modern Americans who call themselves "liberals" are actually the very opposite of being liberal, they are authoritarian socialists. People are being mislead that "conservative" and "liberal" are opposite to each other, which is not true. Here is a short explanation of some opposite political ideas.

Authoritarian vs. Liberal
Conservative vs. Progressive
Nationalist vs. Internationalist

So, for example, American conservatives (Republicans) are also liberal nationalists. :smile: They are conservative because they want to preserve the Constitution, and that Constitution is liberal, in meaning that it protects individual liberty, and they are also nationalists because they love their nation the best and are not being much interested in the rest of the world. Their opposite side (Democrats) are therefore progressive authoritarian internationalists. They are progressive because they want to change the Constitutional values to something they believe is better, they are authoritarian because they want more state intervention over the life of an individual, and they are internationalists because they are, well, Marxist. :smile: But I am aware that the term "nationalist" has a negative meaning in America, don't know why. If they love their nation, then they are nationalists, at least from the European perspective, where nationalist usually equals patriotic.
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Online Solar

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #578 on: February 17, 2017, 04:54:53 AM »
I believe there is a confusion about the naming of different political concepts made in the public intentionally in order to mislead the people. Meaning of the words are being intentionally turned upside down. What we call "liberal" in Europe still usually means "classical liberal", while in America "classical liberals" are now being called "libertarians", which term is not in use in Europe, and that is because the modern Americans who call themselves "liberals" are actually the very opposite of being liberal, they are authoritarian socialists. People are being mislead that "conservative" and "liberal" are opposite to each other, which is not true. Here is a short explanation of some opposite political ideas.

Authoritarian vs. Liberal
Conservative vs. Progressive
Nationalist vs. Internationalist

So, for example, American conservatives (Republicans) are also liberal nationalists. :smile: They are conservative because they want to preserve the Constitution, and that Constitution is liberal, in meaning that it protects individual liberty, and they are also nationalists because they love their nation the best and are not being much interested in the rest of the world. Their opposite side (Democrats) are therefore progressive authoritarian internationalists. They are progressive because they want to change the Constitutional values to something they believe is better, they are authoritarian because they want more state intervention over the life of an individual, and they are internationalists because they are, well, Marxist. :smile: But I am aware that the term "nationalist" has a negative meaning in America, don't know why. If they love their nation, then they are nationalists, at least from the European perspective, where nationalist usually equals patriotic.
Castro and Mussolini were Nationalists, so relative to recent times, the term takes on a militaristic meaning, one carrying the connotation of a coup.
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Offline milos

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #579 on: February 19, 2017, 04:20:38 AM »
Castro and Mussolini were Nationalists, so relative to recent times, the term takes on a militaristic meaning, one carrying the connotation of a coup.

Oh, thank you for this explanation. I was struggling to understand why for example calling Vladimir Putin a nationalist would have had a negative meaning. In Europe, only communists and "progressives/liberals" are against nationalism, and if you came to Europe and talked against nationalism, everyone would have assumed you were a commie or a "progressive/liberal". Because communists and "progressives/liberals" are globalists, they believe in international communist revolution and a global government which should control the world, while on the other side nationalists are anti-communists and anti-globalists, they believe in preservation of traditional and conservative values.
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Online Solar

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #580 on: February 19, 2017, 07:43:25 AM »
Oh, thank you for this explanation. I was struggling to understand why for example calling Vladimir Putin a nationalist would have had a negative meaning. In Europe, only communists and "progressives/liberals" are against nationalism, and if you came to Europe and talked against nationalism, everyone would have assumed you were a commie or a "progressive/liberal". Because communists and "progressives/liberals" are globalists, they believe in international communist revolution and a global government which should control the world, while on the other side nationalists are anti-communists and anti-globalists, they believe in preservation of traditional and conservative values.
It's funny in a way, but the only reason libs here are different from libs in Europe, is their need to usurp new monikers to confuse the masses.
Conservatives have always known who we are, but liberals have changed their name on a regular basis, latest being Progressives until its history was exposed as Marxists. What they use next is anyone's guess.

From an American's POV, we've watched nation's collapsed by communists/socialists via a claim for Democracy by dividing the nation and driving it into anarchy, (part of the plan) then the Commies come back in under another moniker, claim this group or that group as the enemy eg. Hitler and the Jews, then rally the nation under the nationalist banner and once in control plunge it into a dictatorship.

It's one thing to have nationalist pride, it's another to be a Nationalist. Just look at some Nationalist sites, you'll the hand of anarchists driving them into division, into extremist groups, this is just one of the steps in divide and conquer.
America is unique, in that we are a mixed bag of cultures under the banner of shared values of liberty and Freedom, and in order to destroy this harmony, one needs to pit one group against another and racism is an excellent place to start, as evidenced by Black Lives matter, convince people they are the victims, while white people experience hate, further driving them together as a group and the division continues.

Yes, we know where Nationalism leads, even though by itself it's a great thing overall, assuming all races and cultures share its true meaning as a homogeneous society.
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Offline milos

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #581 on: February 21, 2017, 01:53:07 AM »
It's funny in a way, but the only reason libs here are different from libs in Europe, is their need to usurp new monikers to confuse the masses.
Conservatives have always known who we are, but liberals have changed their name on a regular basis, latest being Progressives until its history was exposed as Marxists. What they use next is anyone's guess.

From an American's POV, we've watched nation's collapsed by communists/socialists via a claim for Democracy by dividing the nation and driving it into anarchy, (part of the plan) then the Commies come back in under another moniker, claim this group or that group as the enemy eg. Hitler and the Jews, then rally the nation under the nationalist banner and once in control plunge it into a dictatorship.

It's one thing to have nationalist pride, it's another to be a Nationalist. Just look at some Nationalist sites, you'll the hand of anarchists driving them into division, into extremist groups, this is just one of the steps in divide and conquer.
America is unique, in that we are a mixed bag of cultures under the banner of shared values of liberty and Freedom, and in order to destroy this harmony, one needs to pit one group against another and racism is an excellent place to start, as evidenced by Black Lives matter, convince people they are the victims, while white people experience hate, further driving them together as a group and the division continues.

Yes, we know where Nationalism leads, even though by itself it's a great thing overall, assuming all races and cultures share its true meaning as a homogeneous society.

I don't know, I think it was the leftist mass media that has given nationalism a bad name, they tend to label all kinds of extremists as nationalists. Because, Marxists believe that different nations are dividing the humanity as a whole and causing wars, and so the Marxist agenda is to kill all nations and establish one world with one government through an international revolution which would bring the eternal peace. (So basically they are the avant-garde to Anti-Christ.) On the other side, a true nationalist believes in a diverse world consisted of different and unique nations. One problem with nationalism is that it can easily become chauvinism and turn against the other nations.

I believe that nationalism is more of a solution than a problem. Being a patriot is a passive state, in which one is just a loyal citizen to his country, and the opposite of a patriot would be a traitor. But, for example, what if a Christian country decides to welcome the flood of Muslim migrants? What is a patriot then to do? Just to remain loyal? No, that would be suicidal, and Europe is currently full of patriots who are killing their own nations, believing that accepting poor Muslim refugees is a patriotic thing to do, and that their nationalists are traitors. On the other side, being a nationalist means to actively work on the national idea. Nationalist emotion brings more new energy and will to fight and sacrifice for the nation.

For example, if Jews were just patriots but not nationalists, they would have remained loyal citizens to their respective countries, but they would have never had enough energy and will for such an enterprise to move to Israel and establish a national state there. Look at Rabbi Meir Kahane, in the leftist mass media he has been labeled as "Jewish Nazi" or "Jewish ultranationalist". But, what he was fighting for was just the common sense. He was stating that Israel is a Jewish national state, which it is, and that if they allow Arabs to become equal citizens, having in mind the higher Arab birth rate, it would destroy Israel as a Jewish national state and made it just another Arab state. Isn't that just the truth? Whether Israel should exist as a state or not is another question, but it was successfully established and preserved in the most possible hostile environment only due to nationalist efforts.

Then, there is the French National Front, the major European nationalist political party, that has also been labeled in the leftist mass media as "Nazi" and "racist", because they believe that France should be the French national state, and that French people can only be white, but not Arab or black. I don't know, is it not just the truth, that France is, and should remain, the French national state, and that the French people are only white? To me, their politics are just the common sense. If France doesn't remain white, if it becomes predominantly Arab or black, it will no longer be France anymore. Of course, most nations are not completely racially pure, and they can't be, except if they live on isolated islands, like Japan or Iceland, but there must be some limit which preserves the original identity.

I am aware that the United States were founded as a country of immigrants, but these immigrants were originally white Christians and Jews, and the American Constitution was written for white Christians and Jews, that is just the truth. And you can see that the black and Mexican Americans are generally having difficulties to understand and accept the original American values. So, their respective nationalisms could create even more issues and divide the country, but also American nationalism could provide the solution. (I don't mean the final solution, ha ha.) For example, to actively teach them better the original American values, why are they good and worthy of fighting and sacrificing for. I don't know for the Black Lives Matter, or the feminists, or any other kind of leftist mob, do they want to be Americans or not, and if they do want, then why don't they embrace the American values? It is a simple question for them to decide. The problem is they are used to live in a good surrounding, and they don't know what is like to live in another kind of society. Maybe you should send them to live in Somalia under anarchy, or in Saudi Arabia under the Sharia law for a while.

This guy for example is making a great point.



Sorry for the longer post, I just wanted to share some thoughts, and I am aware that now I sound completely Nazi and racist, but whatever. :cool:
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Offline Summer Sun

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #582 on: April 08, 2017, 08:28:17 AM »
Hello everyone!

I'm glad to be here and I look forward to reading through all the threads and I hope I might be able to contribute along the way!
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Offline supsalemgr

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #583 on: April 08, 2017, 10:01:22 AM »
Hello everyone!

I'm glad to be here and I look forward to reading through all the threads and I hope I might be able to contribute along the way!

Welcome. Hope you find us interesting. Saturday is usually our slowest day so you will have some time to browse the site and see some of our threads.
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Online Solar

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Re: Welcome Thread for Newbie
« Reply #584 on: April 08, 2017, 11:14:47 AM »
Welcome. Hope you find us interesting. Saturday is usually our slowest day so you will have some time to browse the site and see some of our threads.
Well, if anything entertaining. :laugh:
Oh, and informative, most definitely informative.
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