Quote from: walkstall on November 22, 2015, 10:54:32 AM
So your going to live on the government (working taxpayer) the rest of your live.  Must be nice have someone paying for your computer and internet, on the taxpayer.   There was a day when a disabled person got a job themselves.  As long as that government check keep coming in, why do something for yourself.

Solar told me to stick to the OP in that thread and out of respect for the forum rules and my consideration for his feelings I will respond to this by starting a new thread.  I had to take some time to think of a proper response.

First, SSDI is not welfare whatsoever and neither is the whole of social security.  In order for me to receive these benefits I have to make a certain contribution from my own tax dollars from the amount of revenue I received from the jobs I was able to have that were blessed by God. In addition, my employer paid part of it as well. 

Second, The only reason I was able to have the jobs that I did have was because God gave them to me.  I didn't earn them or interview for them.   God threw them into my lap.   

Third, God has not let me have a job and that is because he wanted to make me contrite.   He wants to have a relationship with me so he had to do things to get my ego out of the way.   

Fourth, speaking of ego.  It is both my ego and the way my mind is wired that was designed by God when I was fashioned in thee mother's womb that has caused my problems.  I was at a church service one day and the pastor who is a man of God and on one of his sermons he preached about a young lady named Kierra who was on drugs with a child living in a motel with her abusive boyfriend.   It was her way of thinking by her environment that got her to this point.   What my pastor said was profound and he said "How can she use her way of thinking that got her into this mess to get herself out of this mess?"   That is the same question I ask, how can I be expected to use my own autistic way of thinking, which is my nature, to be able to work things out myself to successfully get and keep a job if it is my very way of thinking that has caused my problems? 

Fifth, Wouldn't it behoove me to seek out those who don't think like myself and who are wiser than I to provide the very assistance I need so I can get off of the money that I am receiving in monthly installments that came from the sweat of my own brow with the jobs God chose to gave to me?  Wouldn't it behoove me to listen to God and get my own ego, my pride and my autistic way of thinking out of the way?   Does not prideth come before a fall?  It is my pride in my own intelligence and thinking I could work things out that caused my own fall.

Sixth, How do you know that all disabled persons were able to get and keep a job for themselves and they didn't end up in prison, killing themselves or ended up in the nut houses?   Where is your evidence that all disabled people were able to get and keep jobs without any assistance from someone and they were able to work it out themselves.  When I mean disabled I mean those with both physical and mental handicaps including but not limited to limited mobility, schizophrenia and mental retardation? 

Finally, God, Everyone of you,my family, my shrink,  and disability support services are wiser than I so why wouldn't I receive help from those who are wise and listen to those who have more wisdom than I and ask questions so I came become wiser so I can be gainfully employed?   For those who tell me to work it out myself and use my own thinking are you not telling me to be a fool and disobey God?   Didn't disobedience to God cause Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and didn't this act cause sin to fall upon the world and curse the land?  Isn't sin and disobedience to God how the world came to be as it is today with disease, death and damnation?   So, why would you give me advice that would cause me to disobey God and rely upon my own thinking and ego (which doesn't work by the way) to obtain a job so I can not eat for physical sustenance but for spiritual sustenance as well?   Would I not be a fool, unwise, and prideful by "doing something for myself" when God who in his infinite wisdom, knowledge and love has told me not to through my pastor's teaching of God's word?

http://biblehub.com/romans/1-22.htm

Quote from: cubedemon on November 25, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
Solar told me to stick to the OP in that thread and out of respect for the forum rules and my consideration for his feelings I will respond to this by starting a new thread.  I had to take some time to think of a proper response.

First, SSDI is not welfare whatsoever and neither is the whole of social security.  In order for me to receive these benefits I have to make a certain contribution from my own tax dollars from the amount of revenue I received from the jobs I was able to have that were blessed by God. In addition, my employer paid part of it as well. 

Second, The only reason I was able to have the jobs that I did have was because God gave them to me.  I didn't earn them or interview for them.   God threw them into my lap.   

Third, God has not let me have a job and that is because he wanted to make me contrite.   He wants to have a relationship with me so he had to do things to get my ego out of the way.   

Fourth, speaking of ego.  It is both my ego and the way my mind is wired that was designed by God when I was fashioned in thee mother's womb that has caused my problems.  I was at a church service one day and the pastor who is a man of God and on one of his sermons he preached about a young lady named Kierra who was on drugs with a child living in a motel with her abusive boyfriend.   It was her way of thinking by her environment that got her to this point.   What my pastor said was profound and he said "How can she use her way of thinking that got her into this mess to get herself out of this mess?"   That is the same question I ask, how can I be expected to use my own autistic way of thinking, which is my nature, to be able to work things out myself to successfully get and keep a job if it is my very way of thinking that has caused my problems? 

Fifth, Wouldn't it behoove me to seek out those who don't think like myself and who are wiser than I to provide the very assistance I need so I can get off of the money that I am receiving in monthly installments that came from the sweat of my own brow with the jobs God chose to gave to me?  Wouldn't it behoove me to listen to God and get my own ego, my pride and my autistic way of thinking out of the way?   Does not prideth come before a fall?  It is my pride in my own intelligence and thinking I could work things out that caused my own fall.

Sixth, How do you know that all disabled persons were able to get and keep a job for themselves and they didn't end up in prison, killing themselves or ended up in the nut houses?   Where is your evidence that all disabled people were able to get and keep jobs without any assistance from someone and they were able to work it out themselves.  When I mean disabled I mean those with both physical and mental handicaps including but not limited to limited mobility, schizophrenia and mental retardation? 

Finally, God, Everyone of you,my family, my shrink,  and disability support services are wiser than I so why wouldn't I receive help from those who are wise and listen to those who have more wisdom than I and ask questions so I came become wiser so I can be gainfully employed?   For those who tell me to work it out myself and use my own thinking are you not telling me to be a fool and disobey God?   Didn't disobedience to God cause Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and didn't this act cause sin to fall upon the world and curse the land?  Isn't sin and disobedience to God how the world came to be as it is today with disease, death and damnation?   So, why would you give me advice that would cause me to disobey God and rely upon my own thinking and ego (which doesn't work by the way) to obtain a job so I can not eat for physical sustenance but for spiritual sustenance as well?   Would I not be a fool, unwise, and prideful by "doing something for myself" when God who in his infinite wisdom, knowledge and love has told me not to through my pastor's teaching of God's word?

http://biblehub.com/romans/1-22.htm

MY GOD did not once tell me to have others find me a job.  There are job out there if you wish to work.  They my not be what you like right now.   But if a wet back can sweep, mop floors or wash dishes for a living staring out you can also. 

I would say I am over 3 time your age.  My generation would have shoveled cow shit for a living if needed, just to have work if out of work. 

I must remember never, ask you how to build a watch.   

Quote from: walkstall on November 25, 2015, 08:33:06 AM
MY GOD did not once tell me to have others find me a job.  There are job out there if you wish to work.  They my not be what you like right now.   But if a wet back can sweep, mop floors or wash dishes for a living staring out you can also. 

I would say I am over 3 time your age.  My generation would have shoveled cow shit for a living if needed, just to have work if out of work. 

I must remember never, ask you how to build a watch.

*Sighs in extreme frustration*   

I will ask again.   Why wouldn't it behoove me to go to others who are wiser than myself to help me to guide me through the whole process of becoming a "shit shoveler" if doing it myself has not worked out for me?   That's not wisdom at all.   To not go to others for assistance and guidance is utter foolishness and lunacy.    If my methods of applying worked and I was able to pass an interview even for a shit shoveler(I rarely even get interviews by the way even for the most menial jobs like shit shoveler) than wouldn't I be employed.   You were able to obtain jobs so you have wisdom to you.   I have no wisdom and am foolish so why wouldn't I go to those who are wise such as yourself, solar, or the disability support services.   You're asking me to use my own mind and my own brain.   That's unwise and foolish on my part and God told me that through my pastor's sermon about Kerria.  If one is color blind than would it behoove yourself to discuss color with me if my concept of color is diminished or have me do anything that relates with a color palette like painting and graphics design.  My own mind and thinking failed me.  God told me to get my thinking and mind out of the way and to go to others such as yourself, solar  the disability support services and/or those who are wise.

More than likely, if I get a job as a "shit shoveler" than I will be kicked off of SSDI anyway even though SSDI comes from what I did earn and what my previous jobs put up that and again I only received those jobs by only the grace of God and not by my own hands.   I will have a job.   Even if my SSDI does come from the taxpayers by the way (which is 100% wrong) than by doing what I'm doing wouldn't I be getting off of SSDI and contributing to society?   

As a foolish person, sinful person, and an unwise person with an Autism spectrum disorder that entails a pragmatic disorder why would I not seek assistance?   I don't follow your logic whatsoever and I don't understand why you as a God fearing man would want me to disobey God.  Finally, does our God tell everyone to do the exact same thing and go the exact same path?   For all I know maybe five years from now, God wants me to be like Jonah and go to different areas of the country to get others to repent of their sins.  Who knows?   

Why wouldn't God tell me to go to others for assistance and guidance but wouldn't tell you that same thing?   

In a metaphorical and spiritual way, am I not but a child who is foolish and unwise?    So, why wouldn't I as a metaphorical child go to the ones who are more mature in their wisdom and understanding so I as a child can be "Trained up in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+22%3A6&version=KJV

Not only what you say goes against all logic but it is not biblical whatsoever. 

Quote*Sighs in extreme frustration*

Welcome to the real world.



Then sit on your ass and stay home, like others of your generation.  The wet back will be more then happy for that starter job. 

Quote from: cubedemon on November 25, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
That is the same question I ask, how can I be expected to use my own autistic way of thinking, which is my nature, to be able to work things out myself to successfully get and keep a job if it is my very way of thinking that has caused my problems?

You assume that you are powerless to change. And in that attitude lies your failure. While there are those with autism who cannot hope to function in society, there are also those who can.  You are, obviously, the latter.  I have a daughter who is ASD also. And I find myself explaining to her, quite often, that being ASD is not an excuse. Yes, being ASD makes certain things more difficult, just as being deaf, blind, lame, etc. makes certain things more difficult. But it is not an excuse, as those with ANY type of disability prove on a daily basis when they refuse to allow their "difference" to hinder what they wish to do.

"With God, all things are possible." You recognize the fact that your "natural" thinking style leads you to trouble. That is more than half the battle: recognizing you have a problem ad what it is.  Second is to learn to compensate. The knowledge that your way of thinking is problematic allows you to step back from your natural tendencies, take a second look, and find a second way of thinking about the situation.They tell people with anger control issues to learn to "count to ten" (or similar delaying tactics) before reacting to a stimulus. People with ASD can learn to do the same thing: step back, pause (count to ten) and rethink the situation before acting. Of course, having that need would limit you from entering any field that requires quick reaction to unusual situations, but learning to compensate will open far more doors of possibility than it will close by making your reaction times slower.

But the bottom line is, you are NOT as helpless in your autism as you are allowing yourself to become. You know the problem, which is a major battle in itself.  Now you need to find how to compensate for it.

Quote from: walkstall on November 25, 2015, 11:44:26 AM
  Welcome to the real world.



Then sit on your ass and stay home, like others of your generation.  The wet back will be more then happy for that starter job.

The reason I am frustrated is because you can't or will not comprehend the facts that I've told you and you seem to just gloss over the content of what I do say.  I show the website that explains where SSDI and social security money comes from.   

a.   SSDI is a form of social security for those disabled people who qualify.

b.   One of the qualifications for SSDI is one has to be working and the work has to be for a certain amount of time.

c.  The money for my SSDI comes from the taxes I had to pay to it plus my employer's part.

d.  With the jobs I did have I earned my part and the employer's part to my particular pot.

e.  I only have access to my particular pot.  No one elses

f.   Therefore, the money I receive does not come from the taxpayers so it is not welfare. 

g.    The jobs I've had were given to me by the grace of God.  I didn't have to interview for them or earn them in anyway.

h.   I've tried to look for and obtain jobs on my own.  It didn't work.

i.  There are people out there called disability support services who will help me to get one as recommended by my psychologist. 

j.   More than likely, if I get a job through them I will be off of SSDI and making my own money.

k.  The money will be taxed and part of that tax will go to Social Security again.   

l.   Based upon these facts, I will be a hard working productive citizen through disability support services assistance and not on welfare even though I was never on welfare or receiving welfare to begin with.   Why am I wrong to go this route?

m.   All you  and others are doing is stating hackneyed and cliched one liners that say nothing keep repeating them like a robot with no critical thought or analysis behind them. 
 

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
You assume that you are powerless to change. And in that attitude lies your failure.

I never made this claim one iota.   What I said and I've been saying is that I need intricate assistance to do so.   

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
While there are those with autism who cannot hope to function in society, there are also those who can. 

I never denied this.    What I am saying is I that I need guidance by others to do so.   With guidance by others and certain questions I have answered by others (some questions have been answered) I can function.   

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
You are, obviously, the latter. 

What is the criteria that delineates the former from the latter?

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM

QuoteI have a daughter who is ASD also. And I find myself explaining to her, quite often, that being ASD is not an excuse. Yes, being ASD makes certain things more difficult, just as being deaf, blind, lame, etc. makes certain things more difficult. But it is not an excuse, as those with ANY type of disability prove on a daily basis when they refuse to allow their "difference" to hinder what they wish to do.

In other words you're saying my own attitude is keeping me down and hindering.   Here is my logical problem with this sort of thinking.   I supposedly narcissistic and selfish since I am part of the younger generations.   Why would I purposely allow my own attitude to get in my way of being able to support myself?   Why would I do anything or not do anything that would bring harm and evil to myself?   This whole positive attitude and this whole negativity keeping me down goes against all grains of logic.    Let's say that it is my own attitude than by logic than it is unintentional.  Even then, it still doesn't refute the logic that I need to set myself aside and get help from others, right? 

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
"With God, all things are possible."

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
You recognize the fact that your "natural" thinking style leads you to trouble. That is more than half the battle: recognizing you have a problem ad what it is.  Second is to learn to compensate. The knowledge that your way of thinking is problematic allows you to step back from your natural tendencies, take a second look, and find a second way of thinking about the situation.They tell people with anger control issues to learn to "count to ten" (or similar delaying tactics) before reacting to a stimulus. People with ASD can learn to do the same thing: step back, pause (count to ten) and rethink the situation before acting. Of course, having that need would limit you from entering any field that requires quick reaction to unusual situations, but learning to compensate will open far more doors of possibility than it will close by making your reaction times slower.

I had to deal with a situation a few days ago my psychologist helped to clear up.   She walked me through the whole situation bit by bit.   This was when I had to go to the disability support services.  What I was told was I could bring my paperwork and meet this particular person there at anytime.  All I had to do was walk in and show up.   The receptionist there told me I had to make an appointment.   I felt like I was lied to and Bullshitted.  My psychologist told me "what I did wrong and that I assumed that this walk in policy applied to everyone and what I needed to say was that I did talk to the particular person over the phone and she told me to just come here at anytime.   What do I do now?"   You gave some specifics.   That's what I'm talking about.  I will try the 1-10 method as well and see what happens. 

So, I'm going to my psychologist, getting the assistance I need from her and the disability support group so I can be productive.    Why is this wrong in other people's eyes?   I thought I was taking the positive approach. 

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
But the bottom line is, you are NOT as helpless in your autism as you are allowing yourself to become. You know the problem, which is a major battle in itself.  Now you need to find how to compensate for it.

With assistance from my psychologist and the disability support services I can do so and maybe fit in missing pieces.   

What would be helpful is guidance and assistance from the average joe by answering questions, showing me where my reasoning is off and helping to define things.   

Example:   There are those who claim they want tolerance in different things yet what confuses me is that they're intolerant towards people who are intolerant.   How can one be absolutely tolerant by being tolerant of all things I would have to accept the things that are intolerable and by placing exceptions than I can't be absolutely tolerant.   So, how can one have tolerance as a virtue all of the time.  It's confusing and leads to a paradox. 

Quote from: cubedemon on November 25, 2015, 12:28:27 PM
Why am I wrong to go this route? 

That's the point Walks is making. You're not wrong to take any job, and I mean any job that earns you an income.
You yourself know that SSDI eventually ruins a person and makes them dependent, but a job, any job keeps the psyche strong and ready for the next challenge.

I knew a disabled guy that was cleaning a realestate office once a week, since he had the time, he hit up other business in the area and within a year was gainfully employed.
Last I heard he had hired several people and was looking to expand into landscaping.

Your biggest barrier is your own imagination. Find a partner to offset your roadblocks?

Quote from: zewazir on November 25, 2015, 12:14:08 PM
You assume that you are powerless to change. And in that attitude lies your failure. While there are those with autism who cannot hope to function in society, there are also those who can.  You are, obviously, the latter.  I have a daughter who is ASD also. And I find myself explaining to her, quite often, that being ASD is not an excuse. Yes, being ASD makes certain things more difficult, just as being deaf, blind, lame, etc. makes certain things more difficult. But it is not an excuse, as those with ANY type of disability prove on a daily basis when they refuse to allow their "difference" to hinder what they wish to do.

"With God, all things are possible." You recognize the fact that your "natural" thinking style leads you to trouble. That is more than half the battle: recognizing you have a problem ad what it is.  Second is to learn to compensate. The knowledge that your way of thinking is problematic allows you to step back from your natural tendencies, take a second look, and find a second way of thinking about the situation.They tell people with anger control issues to learn to "count to ten" (or similar delaying tactics) before reacting to a stimulus. People with ASD can learn to do the same thing: step back, pause (count to ten) and rethink the situation before acting. Of course, having that need would limit you from entering any field that requires quick reaction to unusual situations, but learning to compensate will open far more doors of possibility than it will close by making your reaction times slower.

But the bottom line is, you are NOT as helpless in your autism as you are allowing yourself to become. You know the problem, which is a major battle in itself.  Now you need to find how to compensate for it.

Sir I am not gifted with the words like you and cubedemon.  But I have learned to compensate for it all my life.  I have not let that stop me from being the best I could be.  On the Indian reservation they did not teach grammar or phonics only sight reading. 

Quote from: walkstall on November 25, 2015, 01:14:37 PM



Sir I am not gifted with the words like you and cubedemon.  But I have learned to compensate for it all my life.  I have not let that stop me from being the best I could be.  On the Indian reservation they did not teach grammar or phonics only sight reading.

We all learn to cope. I am dyslexic, but nobody told me. Therefore, I had to make adjustments to make the best of my situation. Fortunately, I was able to do that. That affliction is nowhere near autism, but it is an issue. After observing cubedemon for numerous posts now I have come to the conclusion he has accepted his condition as an excuse rather than a challenge to overcome to the best of his ability.

Quote from: supsalemgr on November 25, 2015, 01:37:54 PM
We all learn to cope. I am dyslexic, but nobody told me. Therefore, I had to make adjustments to make the best of my situation. Fortunately, I was able to do that. That affliction is nowhere near autism, but it is an issue. After observing cubedemon for numerous posts now I have come to the conclusion he has accepted his condition as an excuse rather than a challenge to overcome to the best of his ability.

Same here SSM, I too am dyslexic as Hell, but I never knew it, I assumed everyone had the same issue and the playing field was level.
Earlier I was thinking about all those in the past that were never diagnosed with afflictions, yet they somehow managed to make it in life, so just imagine if they had been told early on that they were disabled and would have trouble succeeding?

Myself, I was diagnosed in the 60s as severe ADHD, I knew I was different, so hyper, I even got on my own nerves.
But like so many of these so called afflictions, there is always an upside, and offset enhanced ability, and in my case, the ability to notice the most minute details which led to becoming a private investigator, which opened endless doors, and all because society deemed me incapable.

Quote from: Solar on November 25, 2015, 01:59:07 PM
Same here SSM, I too am dyslexic as Hell, but I never knew it, I assumed everyone had the same issue and the playing field was level.
Earlier I was thinking about all those in the past that were never diagnosed with afflictions, yet they somehow managed to make it in life, so just imagine if they had been told early on that they were disabled and would have trouble succeeding?

Myself, I was diagnosed in the 60s as severe ADHD, I knew I was different, so hyper, I even got on my own nerves.
But like so many of these so called afflictions, there is always an upside, and offset enhanced ability, and in my case, the ability to notice the most minute details which led to becoming a private investigator, which opened endless doors, and all because society deemed me incapable.

This BS all began in the late 60's. In the late 70's we were told our daughter had a learning disability. A  doctor friend/neighbor who had a daughter the same age and school said it was not a learning disability, but a teaching disability. I thought that was poignant at the time as he felt teachers were becoming lazy and this was an easy way out with children who were struggling somewhat in school..

Quote from: supsalemgr on November 25, 2015, 02:16:45 PM
This BS all began in the late 60's. In the late 70's we were told our daughter had a learning disability. A  doctor friend/neighbor who had a daughter the same age and school said it was not a learning disability, but a teaching disability. I thought that was poignant at the time as he felt teachers were becoming lazy and this was an easy way out with children who were struggling somewhat in school..

Bingo! Enters the drug companies drugging the gifted and exceptional to match that of the drone student that sits quietly at their desk bored to tears.
Hey, but the class was quiet and the teacher could hit the bottle in peace.

Quote from: supsalemgr on November 25, 2015, 02:16:45 PM
This BS all began in the late 60's. In the late 70's we were told our daughter had a learning disability. A  doctor friend/neighbor who had a daughter the same age and school said it was not a learning disability, but a teaching disability. I thought that was poignant at the time as he felt teachers were becoming lazy and this was an easy way out with children who were struggling somewhat in school..

We were told our son had a disability and he had to be tested.  After all the tests it came out he was just very hyperactive.  There work up sheet after all the tests, said that the teachers need to learn to deal with kids like him.  The teachers and school were not very happy.     He made Ricochet Rabbit look like a amateur.

Quote from: walkstall on November 25, 2015, 02:35:32 PM
We were told our son had a disability and he had to be tested.  After all the tests it came out he was just very hyperactive.  There work up sheet after all the tests, said that the teachers need to learn to deal with kids like him.  The teachers and school were not very happy.     He made Ricochet Rabbit look like a amateur.

In response to you and Solar. So now, 50 years later, look at the condition of our schools and what they are producing. I remember in grammar school my biggest fear was not getting promoted. I recall one kid in a class that did not get promoted. That was quite a motivator to me. Now kids are just "moved along" so as to not hurt their ego. BS!