I don't know where to put this, so please move it if it would be better somewhere else.
My husband and I originally planned to put in base boards and one corn/wood stove centrally in the house. We found out after making that decision that the base boards I had looked at, and used for cost planning, were not the base boards we would need, they look roughly the same, but the ones I saw were for supplemental heat, the ones we need, if we go that route, are double the cost, plus we have to have a whole new electric outdoor box installed for the high drain.
The electric setup alone is probably going to put us out $2000, so we never considered a forced air furnace because of the cost of HVAC, the furnace, and set up/fill of a propane tank. I honestly don't know what a forced air furnace costs. I admit to having a pretty small scope of knowledge where heating is concerned. Forced air, radiant, base board, wood (or other) stove is about the scope of my knowledge. We are not using the corn/wood stove as the main heating system because most of our relatives live out-of-state so we need a system that we can turn down, but still keep the house warm enough that pipes won't freeze if we are gone for a few days. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Quote from: JustKari on September 02, 2012, 07:29:27 PM
I don't know where to put this, so please move it if it would be better somewhere else.
My husband and I originally planned to put in base boards and one corn/wood stove centrally in the house. We found out after making that decision that the base boards I had looked at, and used for cost planning, were not the base boards we would need, they look roughly the same, but the ones I saw were for supplemental heat, the ones we need, if we go that route, are double the cost, plus we have to have a whole new electric outdoor box installed for the high drain.
The electric setup alone is probably going to put us out $2000, so we never considered a forced air furnace because of the cost of HVAC, the furnace, and set up/fill of a propane tank. I honestly don't know what a forced air furnace costs. I admit to having a pretty small scope of knowledge where heating is concerned. Forced air, radiant, base board, wood (or other) stove is about the scope of my knowledge. We are not using the corn/wood stove as the main heating system because most of our relatives live out-of-state so we need a system that we can turn down, but still keep the house warm enough that pipes won't freeze if we are gone for a few days. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
As an expert in the field, never use electricity as a heat source, not only will the electric bill kill you, but if the power goes out, you're screwed.
A wood stove is essential, no power, no problem, but one that burns corn, also requires electricity, and again, if the power goes out, so does your heat source.
Propane may be costly upfront, but in the long run you will will save money, don't even consider an electric water heater, the same rule applies.
http://suhresgas.com/propane%20vs%20elec/index.html (http://suhresgas.com/propane%20vs%20elec/index.html)
I recommend a tankless water heater by Paloma, one that doesn't require any electricity, that way you will always have hot water, and save an additional 30% over a propane tank water heater.
My suggestion is, if you aren't going to get an air conditioner, then go with propane forced air heat, you can use just the fan to circulate heat throughout the house from the wood stove.
Because of the base board heat plan, we had budgeted for wall mounted A/C units, but if we end up going forced air, we can nix that and just get a heater and A/C unit in one. I just don't know what they cost and I don't know who to contact to find out.
Dh and I like the idea of a tankless water heater, I will pass your suggestion on to him.
Quote from: JustKari on September 02, 2012, 08:35:24 PM
Because of the base board heat plan, we had budgeted for wall mounted A/C units, but if we end up going forced air, we can nix that and just get a heater and A/C unit in one. I just don't know what they cost and I don't know who to contact to find out.
Dh and I like the idea of a tankless water heater, I will pass your suggestion on to him.
Just call your local H/Vac appliance guys, they'll give you quotes for free.
Just make sure you get a unit that can handle your entire house, an undersized unit will cost you more in electricity than one designed for the whole house.
A unit that is over sized will cost a bit more up front, but won't need to run as long as a budget unit, so in a few years of use, the higher cost is offset through lower electricity bills.
Just some points to consider, and get a unit that has a strong warranty, there are units out there that are cheap for a reason, like Goetle (pronounced gettle) Hvac, they are some of the worst on the mkt, that is, if they are still even in business, but they cost half the price.
The United States federal government is forcing the cost of corn higher every year -- on purpose. And the USEPA and its allied lib/prog agencies are pounding people who burn wood, pellet or otherwise, with stricter regulations and higher fuel costs.
And this is all brought to you by the lib/prog political/administrative complex, something I think I'll start calling the LPPAC.
Wood is your friend, but not the pellet kind. Corn belongs to the U. S. government these days, and its price is the product of the nearest Democrat.
Get yourself a good woodstove that doesn't require pellets or electricity. Just a good Vermont-style or a boxwood stove -- one that burns "sticks" of wood -- will get you through every power outage. Get one with a flat or "stove-lid" top, and you can cook on it too. Use box fans or whole-house circulator fans when the power's on. The heat near the stove will be there for you when it's not.
For the past three winters, I've heated my 1,600 sf house with a cheap Vogelzang boxwood stove I bought new from Tractor Supply for something like $229. I bust my ass cutting the wood during the summer/fall (my arthritic shoulders are singing a loud tune even as I type this) and feeding it into the stove in the fall/winter/spring. But I figure my profit on that stove is something like $10,000 right now, and it'll just get bigger.
Quote from: tbone0106 on September 02, 2012, 10:18:09 PM
The United States federal government is forcing the cost of corn higher every year -- on purpose. And the USEPA and its allied lib/prog agencies are pounding people who burn wood, pellet or otherwise, with stricter regulations and higher fuel costs.
And this is all brought to you by the lib/prog political/administrative complex, something I think I'll start calling the LPPAC.
Wood is your friend, but not the pellet kind. Corn belongs to the U. S. government these days, and its price is the product of the nearest Democrat.
Get yourself a good woodstove that doesn't require pellets or electricity. Just a good Vermont-style or a boxwood stove -- one that burns "sticks" of wood -- will get you through every power outage. Get one with a flat or "stove-lid" top, and you can cook on it too. Use box fans or whole-house circulator fans when the power's on. The heat near the stove will be there for you when it's not.
For the past three winters, I've heated my 1,600 sf house with a cheap Vogelzang boxwood stove I bought new from Tractor Supply for something like $229. I bust my ass cutting the wood during the summer/fall (my arthritic shoulders are singing a loud tune even as I type this) and feeding it into the stove in the fall/winter/spring. But I figure my profit on that stove is something like $10,000 right now, and it'll just get bigger.
This was actually the type of stove we originally had in mind, fairly small, versatile, and energy efficient (as far as electricity, not man energy) because we have a massive shelter belt that needs taming, if you have to cut the wood, why not use it, right? Our main concerns where (and maybe you can help with this) our house will be three stories when complete, with two large ceiling fans on the main level, fsf similar to what you have. Will the heat make it upstairs and downstairs? Secondly, do you travel, how do you keep the pipes from freezing if you do? I also worry with my disability and being home, that I might have difficulty keeping it fed all day, but that is more of a personal issue. Lastly, did having that type of heat in your home make your homeowners ins go up (if that is too
personal, you don't have to answer).
Solar, thank you, I will call around on tues to see what they cost. We just don't want to get this wrong and find out midwinter when it is too late to correct.
Quote from: JustKari on September 03, 2012, 12:24:24 AM
This was actually the type of stove we originally had in mind, fairly small, versatile, and energy efficient (as far as electricity, not man energy) because we have a massive shelter belt that needs taming, if you have to cut the wood, why not use it, right? Our main concerns where (and maybe you can help with this) our house will be three stories when complete, with two large ceiling fans on the main level, fsf similar to what you have. Will the heat make it upstairs and downstairs? Secondly, do you travel, how do you keep the pipes from freezing if you do? I also worry with my disability and being home, that I might have difficulty keeping it fed all day, but that is more of a personal issue. Lastly, did having that type of heat in your home make your homeowners ins go up (if that is too
personal, you don't have to answer).
Solar, thank you, I will call around on tues to see what they cost. We just don't want to get this wrong and find out midwinter when it is too late to correct.
Like T, ST and I also have a Vogelzang we bought from Northern Tool, we bought the Performer, the largest they make, works alright, but had I had a choice, I would have bought another Osburn, but they aren't allowed in Ca, as well as many other well made stoves.
Whatever you do, don't but cast iron, always rolled steel, cast looks pretty, but cracks if fired too quickly.
The thicker the better in rolled steel, and as T mentioned, the larger the top area of the stove, the better, wood heat is the only heat I've had for over 40 years, ST cooks on it in the Winter, so the large surface is a must for us.
As to heating the upstairs, not really an issue, hot air always rises, just crack an upstairs window and the heat will race up.
This was one of the reasons I suggested a forced air furnace for the Winter months, it could draw air through the entire house, keeping the temp balanced throughout, but a heat pump with fan only will do the same, but the heat pump to heat the house is nowhere near as efficient as a propane forced air unit, a heat pump costs the same running in the summer as it does e=winter, the process is merely reversed.
Think of running your air conditioner all winter long, and you know what it does to your electric bill in the summer, ask about two separate units, a heat pump is an electric pig.
You may also want to consider just a few small wall furnaces in the home, they are cheap and only heat the room you're using, instead of trying to heat the entire house all the time.
Quote from: tbone0106 on September 02, 2012, 10:18:09 PM
The United States federal government is forcing the cost of corn higher every year -- on purpose. And the USEPA and its allied lib/prog agencies are pounding people who burn wood, pellet or otherwise, with stricter regulations and higher fuel costs.
And this is all brought to you by the lib/prog political/administrative complex, something I think I'll start calling the LPPAC.
Wood is your friend, but not the pellet kind. Corn belongs to the U. S. government these days, and its price is the product of the nearest Democrat.
Get yourself a good woodstove that doesn't require pellets or electricity. Just a good Vermont-style or a boxwood stove -- one that burns "sticks" of wood -- will get you through every power outage. Get one with a flat or "stove-lid" top, and you can cook on it too. Use box fans or whole-house circulator fans when the power's on. The heat near the stove will be there for you when it's not.
For the past three winters, I've heated my 1,600 sf house with a cheap Vogelzang boxwood stove I bought new from Tractor Supply for something like $229. I bust my ass cutting the wood during the summer/fall (my arthritic shoulders are singing a loud tune even as I type this) and feeding it into the stove in the fall/winter/spring. But I figure my profit on that stove is something like $10,000 right now, and it'll just get bigger.
This year the old ticker didn't like the heat, so I hired a couple of younger guys to cut and split all the wood I had ready to go.
The guy that bid it, said $300. should about cover it, I actually feel sorry for the guy, he has to cut, split and stack about 7 or more cords of wood.
I'll give him an extra hundred when he's done.
I miss doing the wood, it was always good exercise, but my angina just won't agree with my plans.
If I had a choice though, I'd buy a Fisher wood stove, the best one on the mkt, IMO, easiest to clean with a huge door and box.
My Volzgang leaks air, the gasket never stays on the door, and the rolled steel is not uniform throughout the stove, but for the price was a good buy, but I'd rather pay more for the best, than deal with the little crap like leaks and a hot gasket.
I heat my house with wood. Northern Tool stove................not available in CA. Vogelzang.
The way I do it, was to get in touch with the tree guys. They come and dump loads of oak in my yard. I cut it up and burn it.
If you decide to go that route, get your chimney piping from these guys. It's the best.
http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent/c22 (http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent/c22)
I didn't want to burn my house down, so I spent months on research. Let me know if I can help....................no charge. :wink:
Thank you Kram, I will admitt, the chimney issue kept me up last night. Both chimneys currently in the house are falling apart so we have to carefully take them out and figure out how to put a new one in. I will send my husband to this thread this afternoon, so if you see me lurking on here this afternoon, not posting, its probably him. :lol:
Quote from: JustKari on September 03, 2012, 09:30:37 AM
Thank you Kram, I will admitt, the chimney issue kept me up last night. Both chimneys currently in the house are falling apart so we have to carefully take them out and figure out how to put a new one in. I will send my husband to this thread this afternoon, so if you see me lurking on here this afternoon, not posting, its probably him. :lol:
The chimney can be taken apart one brick at a time, and be replaced with a wood stove chimney. The only real issue is preventing water from coming in through the roof, which is easy. I think I still have my codes, etc. on my computer. Happy to help if I can.
Quote from: kramarat on September 03, 2012, 09:16:09 AM
I heat my house with wood. Northern Tool stove................not available in CA. Vogelzang.
The way I do it, was to get in touch with the tree guys. They come and dump loads of oak in my yard. I cut it up and burn it.
If you decide to go that route, get your chimney piping from these guys. It's the best.
http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent/c22 (http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent/c22)
I didn't want to burn my house down, so I spent months on research. Let me know if I can help....................no charge. :wink:
Good point...
I too went with Metalbest, or what at the time was Metalbestos, all stainless steel.
There is no better pipes on the mkt, costly, but well worth it.
Note to Kari, go with an all straight pipe, no elbows, the elbow is where 99% of all wood stove fires start, though, with the pipe Kramarat suggested, that probability is low.
What happens, is oils, soot and unburned gases solidify and become trapped in the turn, and eventually catch fire, making the elbow extra hot.
A straight pipe run is far easier to keep clean, usually some really hot dry wood and a cranked up stove once a week will keep the chimney clean, and I mean spotless.
So think about the shortest straight run to the outside, that will be the safest place.
Then there is the issue with a long run of pipe, the cost is very high, but requires constant cleaning, because the upper most of the stack never gets hot and the particles cling to the inside walls, to the point of choking off exhaust flow.
Shorter the run the better.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you to get bids for the job, even if you do it yourself, the experts will point out stuff you may have never considered.
It may even be cheaper if they do it, considering they get the pipes cheaper than you could.
Quote from: Solar on September 03, 2012, 10:07:16 AM
Good point...
I too went with Metalbest, or what at the time was Metalbestos, all stainless steel.
There is no better pipes on the mkt, costly, but well worth it.
Note to Kari, go with an all straight pipe, no elbows, the elbow is where 99% of all wood stove fires start, though, with the pipe Kramarat suggested, that probability is low.
What happens, is oils, soot and unburned gases solidify and become trapped in the turn, and eventually catch fire, making the elbow extra hot.
A straight pipe run is far easier to keep clean, usually some really hot dry wood and a cranked up stove once a week will keep the chimney clean, and I mean spotless.
So think about the shortest straight run to the outside, that will be the safest place.
Then there is the issue with a long run of pipe, the cost is very high, but requires constant cleaning, because the upper most of the stack never gets hot and the particles cling to the inside walls, to the point of choking off exhaust flow.
Shorter the run the better.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you to get bids for the job, even if you do it yourself, the experts will point out stuff you may have never considered.
It may even be cheaper if they do it, considering they get the pipes cheaper than you could.
I got the triple walled pipe. Lifetime guarantee. To keep it clean, I open up the damper and get the stove so hot that it glows. Keep a pan of water on it too, to humidify the house. Once you experience that heat, nothing else feels right. :smile:
Quote from: kramarat on September 03, 2012, 10:59:13 AM
I got the triple walled pipe. Lifetime guarantee. To keep it clean, I open up the damper and get the stove so hot that it glows. Keep a pan of water on it too, to humidify the house. Once you experience that heat, nothing else feels right. :smile:
LOL! Same here, keep a two gallon pot on the stove all Winter, without it, the air gets so dry my lips split.
But you're right, the humidity carries the heat throughout the house.
Which is also why I never ever burn wet wood, the moisture clings to the heat and carries it right up and out the stack.
I occasionally through on a less dry piece at the end of the day, then in the morning it is ready to burst into flame when I crank it up.
The only regret I have, is when I built my house, I kept saying I was going to frame in a wood box in the wall, it's shaped like a V, and hinged at the bottom, you tilt it out and load it outside full of wood, then tilt it back in the house and have a weeks supply of firewood, and don't have to brave the snow for wood all the time.
I searched, but can't seem to find a pic of one installed.
Quote from: Solar on September 03, 2012, 11:16:25 AM
LOL! Same here, keep a two gallon pot on the stove all Winter, without it, the air gets so dry my lips split.
But you're right, the humidity carries the heat throughout the house.
Which is also why I never ever burn wet wood, the moisture clings to the heat and carries it right up and out the stack.
I occasionally through on a less dry piece at the end of the day, then in the morning it is ready to burst into flame when I crank it up.
The only regret I have, is when I built my house, I kept saying I was going to frame in a wood box in the wall, it's shaped like a V, and hinged at the bottom, you tilt it out and load it outside full of wood, then tilt it back in the house and have a weeks supply of firewood, and don't have to brave the snow for wood all the time.
I searched, but can't seem to find a pic of one installed.
Not too much snow here, but it gets in the teens. I can't bring too much wood in at once. The bugs start waking up and crawling around the house. Being the lazy SOB that I am, I just split what I need on a daily basis, and use a wheel barrow to get it up to the porch.
Kari. If you end up heating with wood, I use craigslist to get mine. Look under free stuff. The tree guys will dump it in your yard. Otherwise, I'll take my truck and go get it, but it's usually already cut up.
Quote from: Solar on September 03, 2012, 10:07:16 AM
Good point...
I too went with Metalbest, or what at the time was Metalbestos, all stainless steel.
There is no better pipes on the mkt, costly, but well worth it.
Note to Kari, go with an all straight pipe, no elbows, the elbow is where 99% of all wood stove fires start, though, with the pipe Kramarat suggested, that probability is low.
What happens, is oils, soot and unburned gases solidify and become trapped in the turn, and eventually catch fire, making the elbow extra hot.
A straight pipe run is far easier to keep clean, usually some really hot dry wood and a cranked up stove once a week will keep the chimney clean, and I mean spotless.
So think about the shortest straight run to the outside, that will be the safest place.
Then there is the issue with a long run of pipe, the cost is very high, but requires constant cleaning, because the upper most of the stack never gets hot and the particles cling to the inside walls, to the point of choking off exhaust flow.
Shorter the run the better.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you to get bids for the job, even if you do it yourself, the experts will point out stuff you may have never considered.
It may even be cheaper if they do it, considering they get the pipes cheaper than you could.
Excellent advice. Shorter and straighter runs are ALWAYS better -- but not always available or practical.
I have a situation where my chimney is an exterior stack of chimney blocks, and a cast masonry block gives me a horizontal access to the flue. Thus, my setup is a short run vertically from the stove (maybe 2 1/2 feet), then practically horizontal to the wall (maybe 4 ft.), then straight up. I scrub my chimney flue every year. There is a cleanout that helps with that. And I completely replace all my chimney pipe ever two years. Painted carbon steel flue pipe -- that is, regular black inside wood stove flue pipe -- is thin and flimsy, and rusts in the off-season. (Here we call that "summer." :tounge:)
My local Tractor Supply store has flue-cleaning products you can use through the heating season. They're slender plastic tubes loaded with chemicals that help detach the creosote and other deposits from the chimney walls. They're cheap and they work, and I recommend them highly. I don't have a brand name handy, but get with the folks at your local TSC and they'll fix you up. If you don't have a local TSC, the sticks can be had on the net. Let me know, and I'll help you find them.
Quote from: tbone0106 on September 03, 2012, 01:44:03 PM
Excellent advice. Shorter and straighter runs are ALWAYS better -- but not always available or practical.
I have a situation where my chimney is an exterior stack of chimney blocks, and a cast masonry block gives me a horizontal access to the flue. Thus, my setup is a short run vertically from the stove (maybe 2 1/2 feet), then practically horizontal to the wall (maybe 4 ft.), then straight up. I scrub my chimney flue every year. There is a cleanout that helps with that. And I completely replace all my chimney pipe ever two years. Painted carbon steel flue pipe -- that is, regular black inside wood stove flue pipe -- is thin and flimsy, and rusts in the off-season. (Here we call that "summer." :tounge:)
My local Tractor Supply store has flue-cleaning products you can use through the heating season. They're slender plastic tubes loaded with chemicals that help detach the creosote and other deposits from the chimney walls. They're cheap and they work, and I recommend them highly. I don't have a brand name handy, but get with the folks at your local TSC and they'll fix you up. If you don't have a local TSC, the sticks can be had on the net. Let me know, and I'll help you find them.
I used those before, and you're right, they really do clean well.
I too had a steel short piece on my stove till I bought another section of metalbestos to replace it.
But in the interim it had rusted/burned through causing a 4' section of the good pipe to come crashing down and crush it leaving one black mess to clean up.
That was the third and final time I would replace it, I sprung for the good stuff after that.
There is a hardware store in town that has the wood stove at one end of the store and runs horizontally 25' of the blue steel pipe about 8' off the ground, they did it to capture as much heat as possible.
Looks strange, but I'll be damned if it isn't efficient and warms the entire store quite well, that and ceiling fans to circulate it.
They have two of these on top of the stove and they really throw the air out when the stove is cranking.
Runs off the heat of the stove, I know you've seen them, but if you're like me, you're too cheap to buy them too. :laugh:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.northerntool.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct%2Fimages%2F22047_lg.jpg&hash=204601f1aab059354adae13263effd1c0c47c336)
Simplest, and maybe best, wood stove heat exchanger I've ever seen was made of two six-inch tees, four six-inch elbows, and six short sections of six-inch pipe. I have raked the internet looking for a picture of the arrangement, to no avail. To describe it: straight pipe up from the stove to the first tee, then sideways via short sections both ways to the first elbows, then upwards via short sections on both sides to the second pair of elbows, then back together via short sections to the second tee, then up and out. It is basically an O-shaped flue stack with an inlet at the bottom and an outlet at the top.
It was a common arrangement in earlier times, when ceiling heights were typically higher than they are today. I've seen it in more than one western movie. Despite the number of times I've measured, I can't quite make it work in my situation.
Oh yeah, I've seen that before, even thought of trying it, but that was when I was broke and it was either miss a meal, or work on the house.
I chose to eat. :laugh:
So the other half and I went to Menards this weekend (we have a Northern Tool, but it is almost an hour away, so we'll wait to check that out closer to purchase time). It is going to cost a lot more than we thought to have the electrical run and turned back on than we budgeted for, so wood stove it is. We will price out the competition and see what installation will cost, not sure if it is a DIY thing or not. Depends on dh's comfort level with it. He does plan on registering here and checking this thread though, because it is a wealth of information. Thanks for all the help in making this decision!
Quote from: JustKari on September 07, 2012, 11:39:47 AM
So the other half and I went to Menards this weekend (we have a Northern Tool, but it is almost an hour away, so we'll wait to check that out closer to purchase time). It is going to cost a lot more than we thought to have the electrical run and turned back on than we budgeted for, so wood stove it is. We will price out the competition and see what installation will cost, not sure if it is a DIY thing or not. Depends on dh's comfort level with it. He does plan on registering here and checking this thread though, because it is a wealth of information. Thanks for all the help in making this decision!
I got this one. Money is always an object for me. This thing cranks, it's fairly inexpensive, and they delivered it to the house on a flatbed truck.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200446396_200446396 (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200446396_200446396)
Quote from: kramarat on September 07, 2012, 11:49:06 AM
I got this one. Money is always an object for me. This thing cranks, it's fairly inexpensive, and they delivered it to the house on a flatbed truck.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200446396_200446396 (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200446396_200446396)
That is really similar to the one dh and I both liked, except the max log size was only 20", I am guessing that there is a huge benefit to being able to use larger logs. Like having to put live in less often and jack.g to split less.
Quote from: JustKari on September 07, 2012, 12:45:54 PM
That is really similar to the one dh and I both liked, except the max log size was only 20", I am guessing that there is a huge benefit to being able to use larger logs. Like having to put live in less often and jack.g to split less.
Yeah, less cutting. Plus I can load it up at night when it's in the 20's, close down the damper, and it's still in the high 60's in the house, when I wake up in the morning.
That's the basic Vogelzang boxwood stove, which they made in two sizes. I have the larger one which, despite the specs, will actually take a log up to 30" long, if you can wiggle it through the door.
These are inexpensive stoves, but very good at the same time. Understand that they're NOT airtight, you WON'T be getting any firebrick with your purchase, and -- worst of all, in my book -- the stove does not ship with a grate. You WILL want a grate. You can get one most of the time at Tractor Supply or QFF for around 30 bucks. In my experience, the cast iron grate lasts about one season.
Quote from: tbone0106 on September 07, 2012, 01:43:16 PM
That's the basic Vogelzang boxwood stove, which they made in two sizes. I have the larger one which, despite the specs, will actually take a log up to 30" long, if you can wiggle it through the door.
These are inexpensive stoves, but very good at the same time. Understand that they're NOT airtight, you WON'T be getting any firebrick with your purchase, and -- worst of all, in my book -- the stove does not ship with a grate. You WILL want a grate. You can get one most of the time at Tractor Supply or QFF for around 30 bucks. In my experience, the cast iron grate lasts about one season.
That is good to know, it's all those unexpected extras that make it hard to do a cost analysis. It was the Volgelzang model we saw, but obviously the smaller one, and the price was more, so obviously we won't be getting it from Menards. We also need to put in heat protective flooring, and on the wall behind it. All these things add up.
Quote from: tbone0106 on September 07, 2012, 01:43:16 PM
That's the basic Vogelzang boxwood stove, which they made in two sizes. I have the larger one which, despite the specs, will actually take a log up to 30" long, if you can wiggle it through the door.
These are inexpensive stoves, but very good at the same time. Understand that they're NOT airtight, you WON'T be getting any firebrick with your purchase, and -- worst of all, in my book -- the stove does not ship with a grate. You WILL want a grate. You can get one most of the time at Tractor Supply or QFF for around 30 bucks. In my experience, the cast iron grate lasts about one season.
I don't use a grate. No firebrick either. It's basically a cast iron box with a door and a damper.
I load it up with fairly large, split oak, and use a small piece of one of the starters in the link, to get it going. In the morning, I use a poker to push the hot embers to one side of the stove, shovel out the ash, push the glowing embers back in a pile in the center, stack wood on top of them....................and I'm back off to the races.
Forgot the link.
http://www.pinemountainbrands.com/pages/firestarters/26.php (http://www.pinemountainbrands.com/pages/firestarters/26.php)
Quote from: JustKari on September 07, 2012, 01:49:38 PM
That is good to know, it's all those unexpected extras that make it hard to do a cost analysis. It was the Volgelzang model we saw, but obviously the smaller one, and the price was more, so obviously we won't be getting it from Menards. We also need to put in heat protective flooring, and on the wall behind it. All these things add up.
Kari, look at craigslist under free, or run your own ad, a lot of people upgrade this time of year and give away really nice stoves.
My brother contacted a stove store and ask them to call when someone upgraded, he got a super nice rolled steel stove for $100., and it was only a year old.
Cast iron is OK, but they tend to leak a lot, especially as they age, and you can never quick fire one, it causes them to crack.
But if you're really on a tight budget, it's a quick fix till something better comes along.
Quote from: Solar on September 07, 2012, 02:19:59 PM
Kari, look at craigslist under free, or run your own ad, a lot of people upgrade this time of year and give away really nice stoves.
My brother contacted a stove store and ask them to call when someone upgraded, he got a super nice rolled steel stove for $100., and it was only a year old.
Cast iron is OK, but they tend to leak a lot, especially as they age, and you can never quick fire one, it causes them to crack.
But if you're really on a tight budget, it's a quick fix till something better comes along.
Yeah. I don't buy anything without checking craigslist.
Heating with wood isn't a huge deal, but it does take time to perfect everything................from getting the wood, to how to start the fire, to how to burn the fire most efficiently and not blowing too hot, or smoking out out all your neighbors. None of it is hard, but there's a little science to it.
I try to get all my wood together for the following winter, in the spring, while it's still nice out. Got lazy a couple of years, and was out getting wood in June, in temperatures in the 90s. Not fun.
My BIL made me a woodstove out of 7/16 rolled steel. 24"W X 42"L
X 26"H with double hung doors with a 32" opening. I always used a grate and firebricks. You could cook a 4 course meal on it. You must be replacing your unit off and on. I used it for over 45 years. When we moved I put it in my boy's house as we could not use it where we live now. We would have to leave the doors and windows open if we fired it off. :lol:
Quote from: kramarat on September 07, 2012, 02:11:40 PM
I don't use a grate. No firebrick either. It's basically a cast iron box with a door and a damper.
I load it up with fairly large, split oak, and use a small piece of one of the starters in the link, to get it going. In the morning, I use a poker to push the hot embers to one side of the stove, shovel out the ash, push the glowing embers back in a pile in the center, stack wood on top of them....................and I'm back off to the races.
Forgot the link.
http://www.pinemountainbrands.com/pages/firestarters/26.php (http://www.pinemountainbrands.com/pages/firestarters/26.php)
I don't use firebrick -- no need. But I like my grate. You can get by without one as you describe, but with a grate you can clean out the ashes pretty much any time you want. There's no substitute for air circulation around your fire, and the absence of a grate means NO air from 180 degrees below the horizontal plane. (Is that scientific or what?! :tounge:)
I like split oak as well as the next fellow, but I take what I can get. Right now, I'm cutting off a neighbor's woods, working behind what might be the laziest, sloppiest logging crew of all time. These guys wanted LOGS, and nothing but LOGS. They didn't clear-cut, but selectively cut the largest trees, apparently with little regard for species. They clearly favored oak, but also took hickory, cottonwood, even hard maple. But as they went, they left HUGE tops, some of them 24" in diameter, and devastation in the form of damaged and/or killed trees at every (poorly planned) felling. Lots of collateral damage.
Happily, there is also a bountiful harvest of standing and downed deadwood, much of it red oak. This woods hadn't been logged for 25 years. I guess my point is that I take what I can get -- for free, too. :laugh:
The grate in my stove makes it much better for me trying to burn such a wide variety of hardwoods. While oak will lie in a bed and burn to marvelous coals on a flat surface, cottonwood won't, and hickory, as hot as it likes to burn, wants more air too. Maple is not a wood of choice for me, rather a wood that I wind up with. It too wants lots of air, especially if it's a bit on the green side.
Quote from: kramarat on September 07, 2012, 02:41:08 PM
Yeah. I don't buy anything without checking craigslist.
Heating with wood isn't a huge deal, but it does take time to perfect everything................from getting the wood, to how to start the fire, to how to burn the fire most efficiently and not blowing too hot, or smoking out out all your neighbors. None of it is hard, but there's a little science to it.
I try to get all my wood together for the following winter, in the spring, while it's still nice out. Got lazy a couple of years, and was out getting wood in June, in temperatures in the 90s. Not fun.
Looking back a handful of decades ago, I learned the hard way, on an old mini Franklin that had been overheated many times, it leaked, couldn't keep it low, and when a downdraft hit the stack, I'd get smoked out.
I finally got a real stove, that was 1978, and I still have it today, but we replaced it last year, it was just too small and if you didn't feed it every seven hours, you woke up cold.
Now we have a huge one, the Performer from Northern tool, has a built in fan, puts out 119,000 BTU, more than we need, but it's there if we ever need it.
I would have bought a different brand, but the Ca EPA only allows ones with, of all things, catalytic converters, which I promptly ripped out to open up the firebox.
Did I mention, I hate lib stupidity? :cursing:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vogelzang.com%2Fprodimg%2FTR009.jpg&hash=60ede0ee9d6fe82647bccc725c522afbc7d85cf3)
Quote from: tbone0106 on September 07, 2012, 04:12:22 PM
I don't use firebrick -- no need. But I like my grate. You can get by without one as you describe, but with a grate you can clean out the ashes pretty much any time you want. There's no substitute for air circulation around your fire, and the absence of a grate means NO air from 180 degrees below the horizontal plane. (Is that scientific or what?! :tounge:)
I like split oak as well as the next fellow, but I take what I can get. Right now, I'm cutting off a neighbor's woods, working behind what might be the laziest, sloppiest logging crew of all time. These guys wanted LOGS, and nothing but LOGS. They didn't clear-cut, but selectively cut the largest trees, apparently with little regard for species. They clearly favored oak, but also took hickory, cottonwood, even hard maple. But as they went, they left HUGE tops, some of them 24" in diameter, and devastation in the form of damaged and/or killed trees at every (poorly planned) felling. Lots of collateral damage.
Happily, there is also a bountiful harvest of standing and downed deadwood, much of it red oak. This woods hadn't been logged for 25 years. I guess my point is that I take what I can get -- for free, too. :laugh:
The grate in my stove makes it much better for me trying to burn such a wide variety of hardwoods. While oak will lie in a bed and burn to marvelous coals on a flat surface, cottonwood won't, and hickory, as hot as it likes to burn, wants more air too. Maple is not a wood of choice for me, rather a wood that I wind up with. It too wants lots of air, especially if it's a bit on the green side.
Your access to wood sounds like a little piece of heaven! I've got the same deal here. Almost nobody heats with wood. It's considered garbage. The tree guys have to pay to dump it. Needless to say, I don't try to talk people into heating with it. I've got my varieties separated. One to start, one to get it hot, and one to keep it warm all night. I love it!!
So Kari, this is a little forward, but I think you're among friends. What happened? Why can't you walk?
Just tell me if it's none of my business. My hip came apart in 8th grade................crutches until 10th.
My Mom died, (colon cancer), just when I was healing up.
A few years later, I fell 40 ft. Hit the ground so hard, I broke my back, and my knees broke my sturnum, (chest bone).
I'm fine now, but if you would like to share your story, please do. You are an awesome contributor to the forum. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad you are here. Hope I didn't offend.
Not offended at all. It is a bit of a long story, so like you, I will abridge it.
In '99 my husband and I were rear-ended in a parking lot, that is where my good neuro says it probably started. I was ambulanced to the hospital, told them my lower back hurt and they insisted it shouldn't, that it would only have hurt my neck. So they didn't look st it. After that, my sciatica started, then from there went to numbness in my toes. That was when I started seeing a neuro, he did every test he could think of (I am sure my insurance loved him) the only thing he could find was slight bulging in one of my discs in my low back, but he didn't feel that could cause the numbness or should be of concern. He told me that numbness was not pain, and so I should be fine, he sent me home, that was in '01.
Fast forward 6 years, by now both feet are completely numb. I can't lift much or my lower back goes into spasms. I am sitting on my sofa wrapping gifts for Christmas when I felt a pop in my back and got a jolt of the worst pain I had ever had (and I had had two kids by then). I eent to the ER, they gave me meds and set me up with a good neuro, he finally looked at my low back and confirmed all my issues stem from that bulging disc, he removed part of my vertebrae to make room for thte swollen spinal cord, and contained what he could of the disc fluid I had left. The surgery worked, I got to lead a fairly normal life from from '07 to '11.
Dh was laid off in '10, times were really tough, we could not even afford a curriculum for the kids to start school. I looked everywhere for a job in my field (psychology) or someplace with minimal lifting/bending, I looked for seven straight months,finally I realized if I wanted to get books for the kids, I needed a sure bet, time had run out. I applied at Walmart and they hired me that day. I worked in jewelry, so it shouldn't have been a big deal. I even signed a sheet that said I wouldn't have to lift more.
than 15 lbs.
One night we were really short staffed, and help was needed in infants, I helped lift a crib. My back went pop again and I was down. My neuro had warned me to be careful, that anything could put me in a wheelchair, I shouldn't have been lifting. I filed workman's comp. The doctor did not believe I was hurt, thought I was there for drugs, refused to take an ex-ray. I was stuck, couldn't work, no insurance of my own, and now not only is it a pre existing condition, it is a pre existing workers comp condition. No one will touch my back with a ten foot poll. If I could have surgery to repair the damage again, it would have to come out-of-pocket.
I manage to hobble around with a cane for short distances, but walking st all is excruciating, I have not had a pain free moment since re injuring it. The pregnancy aggravates it, but that will be done soon. So in a nutshell, I can't walk because my L4 and L5 are completely screwed.
Thank you for the kind words, I do feel like I am among friends here, and I am sorry that you have been through so much physical pain too, also sorry about your mom. :sad:
Thanks for sharing Kari. I'm not going to bother saying I'm sorry or anything, nor should you for me.
Glad to have you around here. :wink: