Author Topic: heating suggestions  (Read 6511 times)

Offline JustKari

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heating suggestions
« on: September 02, 2012, 07:29:27 PM »
I don't know where to put this, so please move it if it would be better somewhere else.

My husband and I originally planned to put in base boards and one corn/wood stove centrally in the house.  We found out after making that decision that the base boards I had looked at, and used for cost planning, were not the base boards we would need, they look roughly the same, but the ones I saw were for supplemental heat, the ones we need, if we go that route, are double the cost, plus we have to have a whole new electric outdoor box installed for the high drain.

The electric setup alone is probably going to put us out $2000, so we never considered a forced air furnace because of the cost of HVAC, the furnace, and set up/fill of a propane tank.  I honestly don't know what a forced air furnace costs.  I admit to having a pretty small scope of knowledge where heating is concerned.  Forced air, radiant, base board, wood (or other) stove is about the scope of my knowledge.  We are not using the corn/wood stove as the main heating system because most of our relatives live out-of-state so we need a system that we can turn down, but still keep the house warm enough that pipes won't freeze if we are gone for a few days.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 08:28:32 PM »
I don't know where to put this, so please move it if it would be better somewhere else.

My husband and I originally planned to put in base boards and one corn/wood stove centrally in the house.  We found out after making that decision that the base boards I had looked at, and used for cost planning, were not the base boards we would need, they look roughly the same, but the ones I saw were for supplemental heat, the ones we need, if we go that route, are double the cost, plus we have to have a whole new electric outdoor box installed for the high drain.

The electric setup alone is probably going to put us out $2000, so we never considered a forced air furnace because of the cost of HVAC, the furnace, and set up/fill of a propane tank.  I honestly don't know what a forced air furnace costs.  I admit to having a pretty small scope of knowledge where heating is concerned.  Forced air, radiant, base board, wood (or other) stove is about the scope of my knowledge.  We are not using the corn/wood stove as the main heating system because most of our relatives live out-of-state so we need a system that we can turn down, but still keep the house warm enough that pipes won't freeze if we are gone for a few days.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
As an expert in the field, never use electricity as a heat source, not only will the electric bill kill you, but if the power goes out, you're screwed.
A wood stove is essential, no power, no problem, but one that burns corn, also requires electricity, and again, if the power goes out, so does your heat source.

Propane may be costly upfront, but in the long run you will will save money, don't even consider an electric water heater, the same rule applies.
http://suhresgas.com/propane%20vs%20elec/index.html
I recommend a tankless water heater by Paloma, one that doesn't require any electricity, that way you will always have hot water, and save an additional 30% over a propane tank water heater.

My suggestion is, if you aren't going to get an air conditioner, then go with propane forced air heat, you can use just the fan to circulate heat throughout the house from the wood stove.
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Offline JustKari

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 08:35:24 PM »
Because of the base board heat plan, we had budgeted for wall mounted A/C units, but if we end up going forced air, we can nix that and just get a heater and A/C unit in one.  I just don't know what they cost and I don't know who to contact to find out.

Dh and I like the idea of a tankless water heater, I will pass your suggestion on to him.

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 08:52:01 PM »
Because of the base board heat plan, we had budgeted for wall mounted A/C units, but if we end up going forced air, we can nix that and just get a heater and A/C unit in one.  I just don't know what they cost and I don't know who to contact to find out.

Dh and I like the idea of a tankless water heater, I will pass your suggestion on to him.
Just call your local H/Vac appliance guys, they'll give you quotes for free.
Just make sure you get a unit that can handle your entire house, an undersized unit will cost you more in electricity than one designed for the whole house.
A unit that is over sized will cost a bit more up front, but won't need to run as long as a budget unit, so in a few years of use, the higher cost is offset through lower electricity bills.

Just some points to consider, and get a unit that has a strong warranty, there are units out there that are cheap for a reason, like Goetle (pronounced gettle) Hvac, they are some of the worst on the mkt, that is, if they are still even in business, but they cost half the price.
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tbone0106

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 10:18:09 PM »
The United States federal government is forcing the cost of corn higher every year -- on purpose. And the USEPA and its allied lib/prog agencies are pounding people who burn wood, pellet or otherwise, with stricter regulations and higher fuel costs.

And this is all brought to you by the lib/prog political/administrative complex, something I think I'll start calling the LPPAC.

Wood is your friend, but not the pellet kind. Corn belongs to the U. S. government these days, and its price is the product of the nearest Democrat.

Get yourself a good woodstove that doesn't require pellets or electricity. Just a good Vermont-style or a boxwood stove -- one that burns "sticks" of wood -- will get you through every power outage. Get one with a flat or "stove-lid" top, and you can cook on it too. Use box fans or whole-house circulator fans when the power's on. The heat near the stove will be there for you when it's not.

For the past three winters, I've heated my 1,600 sf house with a cheap Vogelzang boxwood stove I bought new from Tractor Supply for something like $229. I bust my ass cutting the wood during the summer/fall (my arthritic shoulders are singing a loud tune even as I type this) and feeding it into the stove in the fall/winter/spring. But I figure my profit on that stove is something like $10,000 right now, and it'll just get bigger.

Offline JustKari

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 12:24:24 AM »
The United States federal government is forcing the cost of corn higher every year -- on purpose. And the USEPA and its allied lib/prog agencies are pounding people who burn wood, pellet or otherwise, with stricter regulations and higher fuel costs.

And this is all brought to you by the lib/prog political/administrative complex, something I think I'll start calling the LPPAC.

Wood is your friend, but not the pellet kind. Corn belongs to the U. S. government these days, and its price is the product of the nearest Democrat.

Get yourself a good woodstove that doesn't require pellets or electricity. Just a good Vermont-style or a boxwood stove -- one that burns "sticks" of wood -- will get you through every power outage. Get one with a flat or "stove-lid" top, and you can cook on it too. Use box fans or whole-house circulator fans when the power's on. The heat near the stove will be there for you when it's not.

For the past three winters, I've heated my 1,600 sf house with a cheap Vogelzang boxwood stove I bought new from Tractor Supply for something like $229. I bust my ass cutting the wood during the summer/fall (my arthritic shoulders are singing a loud tune even as I type this) and feeding it into the stove in the fall/winter/spring. But I figure my profit on that stove is something like $10,000 right now, and it'll just get bigger.
This was actually the type of stove we originally had in mind, fairly small, versatile, and energy efficient (as far as electricity, not man energy) because we have a massive shelter belt that needs taming, if you have to cut the wood, why not use it, right?  Our main concerns where (and maybe you can help with this) our house will be three stories when complete, with two large ceiling fans on the main level, fsf similar to what you have.  Will the heat make it upstairs and downstairs?  Secondly, do you travel, how do you keep the pipes from freezing if you do?  I also worry with my disability and being home, that I might have difficulty keeping it fed all day, but that is more of a personal issue.  Lastly, did having that type of heat in your home make your homeowners ins go up (if that is too
personal, you don't have to answer). 
Solar, thank you, I will call around on tues to see what they cost.  We just don't want to get this wrong and find out midwinter when it is too late to correct.

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 06:41:02 AM »
This was actually the type of stove we originally had in mind, fairly small, versatile, and energy efficient (as far as electricity, not man energy) because we have a massive shelter belt that needs taming, if you have to cut the wood, why not use it, right?  Our main concerns where (and maybe you can help with this) our house will be three stories when complete, with two large ceiling fans on the main level, fsf similar to what you have.  Will the heat make it upstairs and downstairs?  Secondly, do you travel, how do you keep the pipes from freezing if you do?  I also worry with my disability and being home, that I might have difficulty keeping it fed all day, but that is more of a personal issue.  Lastly, did having that type of heat in your home make your homeowners ins go up (if that is too
personal, you don't have to answer). 
Solar, thank you, I will call around on tues to see what they cost.  We just don't want to get this wrong and find out midwinter when it is too late to correct.
Like T, ST and I also have a Vogelzang we bought from Northern Tool, we bought the Performer, the largest they make, works alright, but had I had a choice, I would have bought another Osburn, but they aren't allowed in Ca, as well as many other well made stoves.
Whatever you do, don't but cast iron, always rolled steel, cast looks pretty, but cracks if fired too quickly.
The thicker the better in rolled steel, and as T mentioned, the larger the top area of the stove, the better, wood heat is the only heat I've had for over 40 years, ST cooks on it in the Winter, so the large surface is a must for us.

As to heating the upstairs, not really an issue, hot air always rises, just crack an upstairs window and the heat will race up.
This was one of the reasons I suggested a forced air furnace for the Winter months, it could draw air through the entire house, keeping the temp balanced throughout, but a heat pump with fan only will do the same, but the heat pump to heat the house is nowhere near as efficient as a propane forced air unit, a heat pump costs the same running in the summer as it does e=winter, the process is merely reversed.
Think of running your air conditioner all winter long, and you know what it does to your electric bill in the summer, ask about two separate units, a heat pump is an electric pig.

You may also want to consider just a few small wall furnaces in the home, they are cheap and only heat the room you're using, instead of trying to heat the entire house all the time.
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Online Solar

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 07:16:19 AM »
The United States federal government is forcing the cost of corn higher every year -- on purpose. And the USEPA and its allied lib/prog agencies are pounding people who burn wood, pellet or otherwise, with stricter regulations and higher fuel costs.

And this is all brought to you by the lib/prog political/administrative complex, something I think I'll start calling the LPPAC.

Wood is your friend, but not the pellet kind. Corn belongs to the U. S. government these days, and its price is the product of the nearest Democrat.

Get yourself a good woodstove that doesn't require pellets or electricity. Just a good Vermont-style or a boxwood stove -- one that burns "sticks" of wood -- will get you through every power outage. Get one with a flat or "stove-lid" top, and you can cook on it too. Use box fans or whole-house circulator fans when the power's on. The heat near the stove will be there for you when it's not.

For the past three winters, I've heated my 1,600 sf house with a cheap Vogelzang boxwood stove I bought new from Tractor Supply for something like $229. I bust my ass cutting the wood during the summer/fall (my arthritic shoulders are singing a loud tune even as I type this) and feeding it into the stove in the fall/winter/spring. But I figure my profit on that stove is something like $10,000 right now, and it'll just get bigger.
This year the old ticker didn't like the heat, so I hired a couple of younger guys to cut and split all the wood I had ready to go.
The guy that bid it, said $300. should about cover it, I actually feel sorry for the guy, he has to cut, split and stack about 7 or more cords of wood.
I'll give him an extra hundred when he's done.
I miss doing the wood, it was always good exercise, but my angina just won't agree with my plans.

If I had a choice though, I'd buy a Fisher wood stove, the best one on the mkt, IMO, easiest to clean with a huge door and box.
My Volzgang leaks air, the gasket never stays on the door, and the rolled steel is not uniform throughout the stove, but for the price was a good buy, but I'd rather pay more for the best, than deal with the little crap like leaks and a hot gasket.
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Offline kramarat

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 09:16:09 AM »
I heat my house with wood. Northern Tool stove................not available in CA. Vogelzang.

The way I do it, was to get in touch with the tree guys. They come and dump loads of oak in my yard. I cut it up and burn it.

If you decide to go that route, get your chimney piping from these guys. It's the best.

http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent/c22

I didn't want to burn my house down, so I spent months on research. Let me know if I can help....................no charge. :wink:

Offline JustKari

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 09:30:37 AM »
Thank you Kram, I will admitt, the chimney issue kept me up last night.  Both chimneys currently in the house are falling apart so we have to carefully take them out and figure out how to put a new one in.  I will send my husband to this thread this afternoon, so if you see me lurking on here this afternoon, not posting, its probably him. :lol:

Offline kramarat

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 09:40:08 AM »
Thank you Kram, I will admitt, the chimney issue kept me up last night.  Both chimneys currently in the house are falling apart so we have to carefully take them out and figure out how to put a new one in.  I will send my husband to this thread this afternoon, so if you see me lurking on here this afternoon, not posting, its probably him. :lol:

The chimney can be taken apart one brick at a time, and be replaced with a wood stove chimney. The only real issue is preventing water from coming in through the roof, which is easy. I think I still have my codes, etc. on my computer. Happy to help if I can.

Online Solar

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 10:07:16 AM »
I heat my house with wood. Northern Tool stove................not available in CA. Vogelzang.

The way I do it, was to get in touch with the tree guys. They come and dump loads of oak in my yard. I cut it up and burn it.

If you decide to go that route, get your chimney piping from these guys. It's the best.

http://www.ventingpipe.com/simpson-dura-vent/c22

I didn't want to burn my house down, so I spent months on research. Let me know if I can help....................no charge. :wink:
Good point...
I too went with Metalbest, or what at the time was Metalbestos, all stainless steel.
There is no better pipes on the mkt, costly, but well worth it.

Note to Kari, go with an all straight pipe, no elbows, the elbow is where 99% of all wood stove fires start, though, with the pipe Kramarat suggested, that probability is low.
What happens, is oils, soot and unburned gases solidify and become trapped in the turn, and eventually catch fire, making the elbow extra hot.
A straight pipe run is far easier to keep clean, usually some really hot dry wood and a cranked up stove once a week will keep the chimney clean, and I mean spotless.
So think about the shortest straight run to the outside, that will be the safest place.
Then there is the issue with a long run of pipe, the cost is very high, but requires constant cleaning, because the upper most of the stack never gets hot and the particles cling to the inside walls, to the point of choking off exhaust flow.
Shorter the run the better.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you to get bids for the job, even if you do it yourself, the experts will point out stuff you may have never considered.
It may even be cheaper if they do it, considering they get the pipes cheaper than you could.
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Offline kramarat

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 10:59:13 AM »
Good point...
I too went with Metalbest, or what at the time was Metalbestos, all stainless steel.
There is no better pipes on the mkt, costly, but well worth it.

Note to Kari, go with an all straight pipe, no elbows, the elbow is where 99% of all wood stove fires start, though, with the pipe Kramarat suggested, that probability is low.
What happens, is oils, soot and unburned gases solidify and become trapped in the turn, and eventually catch fire, making the elbow extra hot.
A straight pipe run is far easier to keep clean, usually some really hot dry wood and a cranked up stove once a week will keep the chimney clean, and I mean spotless.
So think about the shortest straight run to the outside, that will be the safest place.
Then there is the issue with a long run of pipe, the cost is very high, but requires constant cleaning, because the upper most of the stack never gets hot and the particles cling to the inside walls, to the point of choking off exhaust flow.
Shorter the run the better.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you to get bids for the job, even if you do it yourself, the experts will point out stuff you may have never considered.
It may even be cheaper if they do it, considering they get the pipes cheaper than you could.

I got the triple walled pipe. Lifetime guarantee. To keep it clean, I open up the damper and get the stove so hot that it glows. Keep a pan of water on it too, to humidify the house. Once you experience that heat, nothing else feels right. :smile:

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2012, 11:16:25 AM »
I got the triple walled pipe. Lifetime guarantee. To keep it clean, I open up the damper and get the stove so hot that it glows. Keep a pan of water on it too, to humidify the house. Once you experience that heat, nothing else feels right. :smile:
LOL! Same here, keep a two gallon pot on the stove all Winter, without it, the air gets so dry my lips split.
But you're right, the humidity carries the heat throughout the house.
Which is also why I never ever burn wet wood, the moisture clings to the heat and carries it right up and out the stack.
I occasionally through on a less dry piece at the end of the day, then in the morning it is ready to burst into flame when I crank it up.

The only regret I have, is when I built my house, I kept saying I was going to frame in a wood box in the wall, it's shaped like a V, and hinged at the bottom, you tilt it out and load it outside full of wood, then tilt it back in the house and have a weeks supply of firewood, and don't have to brave the snow for wood all the time.

I searched, but can't seem to find a pic of one installed.
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Offline kramarat

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Re: heating suggestions
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2012, 11:41:39 AM »
LOL! Same here, keep a two gallon pot on the stove all Winter, without it, the air gets so dry my lips split.
But you're right, the humidity carries the heat throughout the house.
Which is also why I never ever burn wet wood, the moisture clings to the heat and carries it right up and out the stack.
I occasionally through on a less dry piece at the end of the day, then in the morning it is ready to burst into flame when I crank it up.

The only regret I have, is when I built my house, I kept saying I was going to frame in a wood box in the wall, it's shaped like a V, and hinged at the bottom, you tilt it out and load it outside full of wood, then tilt it back in the house and have a weeks supply of firewood, and don't have to brave the snow for wood all the time.

I searched, but can't seem to find a pic of one installed.

Not too much snow here, but it gets in the teens. I can't bring too much wood in at once. The bugs start waking up and crawling around the house. Being the lazy SOB that I am, I just split what I need on a daily basis, and use a wheel barrow to get it up to the porch.

 

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