Author Topic: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")  (Read 743 times)

Offline mrclose

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The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« on: August 04, 2019, 03:27:10 PM »

I think that this is even more relevant today than when I first created it!  :confused:
(2015)

At least, at that time a good majority of true conservatives knew and believed what the "Right To Bear Arms" meant!  :rolleyes:

With the NRA and Trump approving of the ban on 'bump stocks' and the heated rhetoric coming from both sides after these mass murders ..I fear that the ever so slow erosion of the second amendment will now go into overdrive!

BTW: No ads, no popups at link!  :smile:

The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")

Quote

(**snip**)

The intent of the second Amendment was to insure that every able-bodied man in America would be armed in the event that the federal government or America’s own standing army turned on its people.

Our founders were keenly aware that armament would continue to improve and become more efficient and thus ... the 2nd Amendment has Shall Not Be Infringed as it's foundation.

 
It wasn't just the government that possessed sophisticated arms ... the Common Folk of the era owned what today's gun grabbers would call militarized weapons.

By the time the 2nd amendment was adopted, (December 15, 1791) assault weapons already existed.


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"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead.
It is difficult only for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid."

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Offline midcan5

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2019, 05:42:24 AM »
I disagree with your 2nd amendment interpretation. Where does the 'well regulated' come in? "In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment's "right to keep and bear arms." Burger answered that the Second Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that "the Second Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to have firearms at all. "In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"Mass shootings are by now a standard part of American life. Preparing for them has become a ritual of childhood. It’s as American as Monday Night Football, and very nearly as frequent."

https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2019/08/03/rituals-of-childhood/


"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Working class American, husband, father, grandpa, veteran, and still high on life.

Offline s3779m

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2019, 06:34:09 AM »
I disagree with your 2nd amendment interpretation. Where does the 'well regulated' come in? "In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment's "right to keep and bear arms." Burger answered that the Second Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that "the Second Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to have firearms at all. "In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"Mass shootings are by now a standard part of American life. Preparing for them has become a ritual of childhood. It’s as American as Monday Night Football, and very nearly as frequent."

https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2019/08/03/rituals-of-childhood/


"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
And yet the scotus has upheld the 2nd admentment time after time. Here is some more opionions on the matter:
David I. Caplan, who has examined this issue in depth, provides this analysis:

"In colonial times the term ‘well regulated’ meant ‘well functioning’ ― for this was the meaning of those words at that time, as demonstrated by the following passage from the original 1789 charter of the University of North Carolina: ‘Whereas in all well regulated governments it is the indispensable duty of every Legislatures to consult the happiness of a rising generation…’ Moreover the Oxford English Dictionary defines ‘regulated’ among other things as ‘properly disciplined;’ and it defines ‘discipline’ among other things as ‘a trained condition.’"
 http://www.madisonbrigade.com/library_bor.htm
The bill of rights applies to the citizens and that includes the 2nd.

Online Solar

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2019, 06:36:11 AM »
I disagree with your 2nd amendment interpretation. Where does the 'well regulated' come in? "In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment's "right to keep and bear arms." Burger answered that the Second Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that "the Second Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to have firearms at all. "In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"Mass shootings are by now a standard part of American life. Preparing for them has become a ritual of childhood. It’s as American as Monday Night Football, and very nearly as frequent."

https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2019/08/03/rituals-of-childhood/


"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Fuck Warren, he was an idiot!!
Warren did more damage to Conservatism than Roberts to date. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone willing to go to the mat for the turncoat.
The guy gave us  Roe v. Wade, right or wrong, hung Nixon over the tapes, the guy who appointed him, but the one I remember most was his decision of forcing dissenting opinion be paid for by the other side.
If I were to own a TV station and did an expose' on a group, I'd be forced to give them airtime as well.

No, he was not Conservative, and his opinion on the 2nd was proven wrong headed before and after his time.
Scalia wrote many an installment as to the court should be forbidden from writing opinions on God Given Rights, simply because that's what the Bill of Rights was based on, the Laws of God and Nature, Rights the govt should never have been allowed to even look at in the first place.
And if you believe in these stated Rights as inalienable, you too would agree that none of them should ever cross the halls of SCOTUS.
#WWG1WGA

Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2019, 03:53:59 PM »
I disagree with your 2nd amendment interpretation. Where does the 'well regulated' come in? "In 1991, Warren E. Burger, the conservative chief justice of the Supreme Court, was interviewed on the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour about the meaning of the Second Amendment's "right to keep and bear arms." Burger answered that the Second Amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In a speech in 1992, Burger declared that "the Second Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to have firearms at all. "In his view, the purpose of the Second Amendment was "to ensure that the 'state armies'--'the militia'--would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"Mass shootings are by now a standard part of American life. Preparing for them has become a ritual of childhood. It’s as American as Monday Night Football, and very nearly as frequent."

https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2019/08/03/rituals-of-childhood/


"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I just don't understand people like you!
You think that a black robed tyrant can override our rights simply on his/or her opinion?

Let me guess, government educated?

Please, allow me to give you an abbreviated lesson on what you should have been taught in school?

The vast majority of people who believe that the government has the right to regulate gun ownership by passing new laws ... have a poor understanding of our Constitution!

Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!

What the Constitution does do is identify what powers the people grant to the government.

This is the whole purpose of the Constitution - to tell the government what it can and cannot do, our Constitution is a limit on government.

That is why Marxists, Socialist, Progressive Democrats, et al. have such a disdain for our Constitution .. it is a limitation on Government not a limitation on We The People.

Read the Second Amendment closely.
Nowhere does it state that the people have a right to bear arms but rather that the government cannot infringe on that right.

The framers of our Constitution believed that our right to bear arms is a natural right , not a right to be given to us by government.


Amendment II

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A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

That’s it, that is the whole 2nd Amendment.
Where does it say that the government gives us any right?
It doesn’t, it only says that the government cannot infringe on this right.

And when the often used argument arises that we will all be safer if we pass (another) gun law .. I am reminded on how our nations leading members at the time would respond to that ..

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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”

Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

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"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery".

Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787


Put another way: I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude..

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“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”

Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

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“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”

Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

There are a ton more references that can be found but I'll close with the following ...


Quote
Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals- that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government- that it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen’s protection against the government.Ayn Rand
"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead.
It is difficult only for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid."

~ Anonymous

 

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