Taxation and the Constitution

Started by MatthewG, November 12, 2013, 09:41:19 PM

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taxed

Quote from: MatthewG on November 15, 2013, 05:49:23 PM
I hope so. I have been a conservative for almost two years now. I am having to "unlearn" a lot of things that I previously believed to be true so I am probably going to sound ignorant from time to time.

No worries.  Better late than never.  One thing you can always count on, being a conservative, is nature.  Us humans are greedy bastards, so the forces of nature keep us in check.  I can't honestly say I wouldn't raise prices 100x of any service I would provide, but if I did, competition would come in and put me out of business.  I want to keep my labor costs as low as possible, but if I go too low, I'll lose valuable employees to competition offering better compensation and/or work environment.  Nature perfectly calibrates the free market and keeps everything fair on an even playing field.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

walkstall

Quote from: taxed on November 15, 2013, 06:02:49 PM
No worries.  Better late than never.  One thing you can always count on, being a conservative, is nature.  Us humans are greedy bastards, so the forces of nature keep us in check.  I can't honestly say I wouldn't raise prices 100x of any service I would provide, but if I did, competition would come in and put me out of business.  I want to keep my labor costs as low as possible, but if I go too low, I'll lose valuable employees to competition offering better compensation and/or work environment.  Nature perfectly calibrates the free market and keeps everything fair on an even playing field.

One thing that always help me with my salary and pay raises.  I always had headhunter call in for me all the time.  Word gets around when you are a problem solver also.  I had managers in other state of our company call to see if I would move even.  Sales people that like you are good for spreading the word as they move around.  My Manager would tell other manager he would loan me out for only a month to solve problems.  Most of the time my wife would get to go along, just to get me to say I would go.  I learned fast how to play there game.   :lol:
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

taxed

Quote from: walkstall on November 15, 2013, 08:11:11 PM
One thing that always help me with my salary and pay raises.  I always had headhunter call in for me all the time.  Word gets around when you are a problem solver also.  I had managers in other state of our company call to see if I would move even.  Sales people that like you are good for spreading the word as they move around.  My Manager would tell other manager he would loan me out for only a month to solve problems.  Most of the time my wife would get to go along, just to get me to say I would go.  I learned fast how to play there game.   :lol:

hahahaha
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Sci Fi Fan

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 15, 2013, 11:11:28 AM
In a free market, the ruling concept is competition, the "unseen hand." When government interferes, suddenly it's hammers pounding and swords slashing and guns firing, not to enforce a free market, but specifically to eliminate a free market.

That would only really apply if the tax system were set up as to remove rather than reduce profits.

That is, beyond the amount of money you need to live a decently comfortable life and to provide the same to your family, maybe even the amount needed to provide yourself with a bit of a safety cushion and to invest in businesses/innovation/charity, your extra profits are not necessary to your welfare. 

That does not mean you do not deserve to have them - but if you tax millionaires 50% on every dollar they earn past 1 million dollars, you are not "eliminating" the free market, or rather their profits.  They're still making more money - just by a lesser amount.  But the person who makes 15 million dollars a year will still end up with more money after taxes than the person who makes 14 million dollars a year, just by half a million rather than a million.

So, you turn revenue - profits into a slightly concave down rather than linear graph; this isn't unfair.  Your work - reward curve at such high levels becomes exponential rather than linear, so they balance each other out.

norwegen

Greed is the domain of the welfare recipient.  No agreement.  No free exchange or free association.  Just plunder.

And the taxing authority didn't apply to individuals.

QuoteThe Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

And when it did apply to individuals with the ratification of the 16th Amendment, the term uniform took on a whole new meaning.  Suddenly, we had a tax that was not uniform but rather progressive.
"If you are going through hell, keep going."

Winston Churchill

Sci Fi Fan

Quote from: 9 on November 16, 2013, 05:03:52 PM
Greed is the domain of the welfare recipient.

Greed connotes a desire for something beyond what you need.

QuoteNo agreement.  No free exchange or free association.  Just plunder.

Well AFAIK modern welfare policy requires that you attempt to find work.

Personally, I'd give welfare recipients a livable home, meals, etc., for six years on the condition that they attend college or a trade school and obtain a useful degree.  If they fail, they lose their welfare privileges.

kopema

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 16, 2013, 06:36:52 PM
Greed connotes a desire for something beyond what you need

By your retarded every man woman and child in America is an evil monster, and the only "generous" people are those who live on the edge of starvation in "Worker's Paradises" like Somalia and North Korea.

Greed means demanding something that you didn't EARN.
''It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.''

- Justice Robert H. Jackson

taxed

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 16, 2013, 04:53:19 PM
That would only really apply if the tax system were set up as to remove rather than reduce profits.
Wrong.

Quote
That is, beyond the amount of money you need to live a decently comfortable life and to provide the same to your family, maybe even the amount needed to provide yourself with a bit of a safety cushion and to invest in businesses/innovation/charity, your extra profits are not necessary to your welfare.
Profits and earnings belong to the person who earned them; not you.  Please take your wealth envy issues to your therapist.


Quote
That does not mean you do not deserve to have them - but if you tax millionaires 50% on every dollar they earn past 1 million dollars, you are not "eliminating" the free market, or rather their profits.
This is a very dumb statement.  This is indeed eliminating the free market.


Quote
  They're still making more money
More than you, because you are not an earner.  You just simply benefit from the fruits of capitalism and those who are greedy enough to make as much money as possible.


Quote
- just by a lesser amount.  But the person who makes 15 million dollars a year will still end up with more money after taxes than the person who makes 14 million dollars a year, just by half a million rather than a million.
You simply have intense wealth envy.  Have you thought about going out and trying to make some money?  You should try it.


Quote
So, you turn revenue - profits into a slightly concave down rather than linear graph; this isn't unfair.  Your work - reward curve at such high levels becomes exponential rather than linear, so they balance each other out.
Wrong.  This shows you have no clue about what you're talking about.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

taxed

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on November 16, 2013, 06:36:52 PM
Personally, I'd give welfare recipients a livable home, meals, etc., for six years on the condition that they attend college or a trade school and obtain a useful degree.  If they fail, they lose their welfare privileges.
This is stupid.  The desire to improve comes from the individual.  If someone doesn't want to improve, they can work at McDonalds for the rest of their life.  They are free to be a loser.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

kopema

Quote from: taxed on November 16, 2013, 09:52:43 PM
QuotePersonally, I'd give welfare recipients a livable home, meals, etc., for six years on the condition that they attend college or a trade school and obtain a useful degree.  If they fail, they lose their welfare privileges.
This is stupid.  The desire to improve comes from the individual.  If someone doesn't want to improve, they can work at McDonalds for the rest of their life.  They are free to be a loser.

Go ahead and make fun of the retards (seriously, please do, it's always fun for everyone involved.)  But once socialized medicine has been irretrievably woven into the fabric of what used to be America, liberals won't magically go out and get lives all of a sudden.  They'll have to start their next crusade.  And that's as likely to be socialized college as any other completely insane and idiotic idea.
''It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.''

- Justice Robert H. Jackson

Sci Fi Fan

Quote from: taxed on November 16, 2013, 09:50:09 PM
Wrong.
Profits and earnings belong to the person who earned them; not you.  Please take your wealth envy issues to your therapist.

So by your logic, we should eliminate all taxes, period?  What about your war against terror?  What about highways and airports?  Police and firefighting services?  Give me a break - you already support some levels of taxation, so all we're debating now is the scope of the idea.

Quote
This is a very dumb statement.  This is indeed eliminating the free market.

Restating your contention as fact doesn't prove your point.  You're creating a false choice where the alternative is that we live in a partially free market - a "true" free market is about as common in human history as "true" communism.

Quote
More than you, because you are not an earner.  You just simply benefit from the fruits of capitalism and those who are greedy enough to make as much money as possible.

Ad hominem (and not remotely true).

Quote
You simply have intense wealth envy.  Have you thought about going out and trying to make some money?  You should try it.

Ad hominem.

Quote
Wrong.  This shows you have no clue about what you're talking about.

Ad hominem.  Do you care to go back and actually produce a substantive argument?

Snobert

#26
This conversation is goin downhill to the point where I'm gonna close the book and shut off the power and then it'll be the end of it...for the both of ya's. Then ya's both can go back out in the garage try to turn the power back on and I'll lock you out.

Solar

Quote from: Snobert on November 17, 2013, 12:16:24 PM
This conversation is goin downhill to the point where I'm gonna close the book and shut off the power and then it'll be the end of it...for the both of ya's. Then ya's both can go back out in the garage try to turn the power back on and I'll lock you out.
This is what happens when a Marxist troll enters the forum.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Sci Fi Fan

Quote from: Solar on November 17, 2013, 01:07:03 PM
This is what happens when a Marxist troll enters the forum.

I think the best way to show me up and expose my "marxist" views for what they are is to debate my points and disprove them through some logical/empirical framework, rather than quipping third person one liners.

Cryptic Bert

QuoteSo by your logic, we should eliminate all taxes, period?  What about your war against terror?  What about highways and airports?  Police and firefighting services?  Give me a break - you already support some levels of taxation, so all we're debating now is the scope of the idea.

He mentioned "earnings and profits" Take a moment to figure out which taxes would affect "earnings and profits".