Author Topic: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment  (Read 2329 times)

Offline alienhand

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Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« on: February 19, 2019, 03:57:14 AM »
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Quote
Definition of Militia according to Cornell.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

I am in absolute agreement with the 2nd amendment in which we do have a right to bare arms.   Now, here is what is never really discussed.  What exactly are the responsibilities that come with the 2nd amendment?  Looking at the second amendment there is a preamble or justification for the 2nd amendment.  "Necessary to the security of a free state."

Here is what I think on this.  To me, those who wish to own guns who are not part of the military including the national guard should be part of the unorganized militia or if they don't maybe pay a monthly fine or something.  I believe that well-regulated in the 2nd amendment means well-equipped, well disciplined, etc.   In other words, those in the unorganized militia should be trained how to use a gun and use military style marches to discipline themselves.  They should be made to keep themselves in peek physical and mental condition.   In fact, why not use this unorganized militia to help patrol the borders of our country.  If the shit hits the fan including government collapse then they're ready to possibly help rebuild america.   I think rights and responsibilities should go hand in hand and to me the liberal way of gun control wants to throw the baby out with the bath tub. 

What do you all think of this idea and concept?


Online s3779m

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2019, 04:28:44 AM »
I am in absolute agreement with the 2nd amendment in which we do have a right to bare arms.   Now, here is what is never really discussed.  What exactly are the responsibilities that come with the 2nd amendment?  Looking at the second amendment there is a preamble or justification for the 2nd amendment.  "Necessary to the security of a free state."

Here is what I think on this.  To me, those who wish to own guns who are not part of the military including the national guard should be part of the unorganized militia or if they don't maybe pay a monthly fine or something.  I believe that well-regulated in the 2nd amendment means well-equipped, well disciplined, etc.   In other words, those in the unorganized militia should be trained how to use a gun and use military style marches to discipline themselves.  They should be made to keep themselves in peek physical and mental condition.   In fact, why not use this unorganized militia to help patrol the borders of our country.  If the shit hits the fan including government collapse then they're ready to possibly help rebuild america.   I think rights and responsibilities should go hand in hand and to me the liberal way of gun control wants to throw the baby out with the bath tub. 

What do you all think of this idea and concept?
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Pretty much everything you put forward is just another way to restrict guns, liberals would be proud. If you are really serious about training, just let the other shoe drop and go for forced military service for everyone, no exceptions, that way everyone is trained. It has been my experience that those who have no intention of owning a gun always want to tell me what requirements I must go thru in order to have one, or many, or what type, ect. If your concern here is all about gun violence,  lets see you solve the gun violence in Chicago first, then you can start preaching to the rest of us.

Offline alienhand

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2019, 04:47:54 AM »
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Pretty much everything you put forward is just another way to restrict guns, liberals would be proud. If you are really serious about training, just let the other shoe drop and go for forced military service for everyone, no exceptions, that way everyone is trained. It has been my experience that those who have no intention of owning a gun always want to tell me what requirements I must go thru in order to have one, or many, or what type, ect. If your concern here is all about gun violence,  lets see you solve the gun violence in Chicago first, then you can start preaching to the rest of us.

You're right!!

Offline alienhand

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2019, 07:59:43 AM »
And, it begs the question.  What measures can be taken to stop all of these school shootings and these shooters like Nicolas Cruz without violating the 2nd amendment?  Even if my original suggestion would violate the 2nd amendment I ask do we have a moral responsibility to know how to shoot, to keep our selves well disciplined and well equipped?  And, those who were not able bodied or minded what could they do to help with ensure the "security of a free state?"

When I mean moral responsibility I mean not coerced but in good conscience.   

Online Solar

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2019, 08:47:34 AM »
And, it begs the question.  What measures can be taken to stop all of these school shootings and these shooters like Nicolas Cruz without violating the 2nd amendment?  Even if my original suggestion would violate the 2nd amendment I ask do we have a moral responsibility to know how to shoot, to keep our selves well disciplined and well equipped?  And, those who were not able bodied or minded what could they do to help with ensure the "security of a free state?"

When I mean moral responsibility I mean not coerced but in good conscience.   
If everyone was armed, there wouldn't be school shootings in the first place.
The two are in no way connected, the claim that guns somehow take on a mind all their own, completely ignores the elephant in the room, psychotropic drugs and mental illness, something like 90%+ share in common with every shooting.
The gun is not to blame, if it were somehow outlawed, bombs would be the next tool in the box, a device designed for maximum effect, unlike the gun that is limited to hit intended targets, the bomb is indiscriminate, insuring mass casualties.
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Offline Sick Of Silence

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2019, 09:35:35 AM »
Doesn't the 2nd Amendment also describe the citizens right or duty to be a "militia" (not just individual citizens), in order to be in a free state?
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Online s3779m

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2019, 12:06:39 PM »
And, it begs the question.  What measures can be taken to stop all of these school shootings and these shooters like Nicolas Cruz without violating the 2nd amendment?  Even if my original suggestion would violate the 2nd amendment I ask do we have a moral responsibility to know how to shoot, to keep our selves well disciplined and well equipped?  And, those who were not able bodied or minded what could they do to help with ensure the "security of a free state?"

When I mean moral responsibility I mean not coerced but in good conscience.   
We can not solve the problem by assuming all people will obey the laws. Passing more restrictions, knowing the criminals will not comply, only weakens the law abiding citizens and takes away their protection. To understand which gun control laws are "needed" please understand this, every gun control law passed and recommended to pass by the liberals are meant to be the next step for gun confiscation. Liberals do not want you to own any gun.

Online supsalemgr

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2019, 12:28:29 PM »
We can not solve the problem by assuming all people will obey the laws. Passing more restrictions, knowing the criminals will not comply, only weakens the law abiding citizens and takes away their protection. To understand which gun control laws are "needed" please understand this, every gun control law passed and recommended to pass by the liberals are meant to be the next step for gun confiscation. Liberals do not want you to own any gun.

This is another subject where the left will not tell you their actual goal. Once one hears "common sense gun control" it means we want your guns. Notice the MSM never follows up with, "what is your definition of common sense gun control".
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Online Solar

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2019, 02:08:11 PM »
Doesn't the 2nd Amendment also describe the citizens right or duty to be a "militia" (not just individual citizens), in order to be in a free state?
Nope. A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You can't have a militia if people cannot keep their arms with them.
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Offline Sick Of Silence

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2019, 06:45:06 PM »
Nope. A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You can't have a militia if people cannot keep their arms with them.

I am talking about different things:
1. Federal government to raise armies
2. Being able to individually bear arms
3. Being able to be a militia (not associated with the military a.k.a. not just a armed individual citizen) you are an organized local group (even if it is just your neighbors)

That's what I read from the text.
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Online Solar

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2019, 08:02:59 PM »
I am talking about different things:
1. Federal government to raise armies
2. Being able to individually bear arms
3. Being able to be a militia (not associated with the military a.k.a. not just a armed individual citizen) you are an organized local group (even if it is just your neighbors)

That's what I read from the text.
Militia is separated for a reason. Meaning, one needs to be able to bear arms in order to have a Militia.
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Offline Sick Of Silence

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2019, 09:31:05 PM »
Militia is separated for a reason. Meaning, one needs to be able to bear arms in order to have a Militia.

Yes. But am talking about it as a seperate right (assemble a militia). Yes, you do it with a gun.  But, you can also assemble without as well.

Again, I am reading the text:
1. Need for military
2. Right to guns
3. Right to militarize (seperate from military or guns)
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Online Solar

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2019, 03:47:33 AM »
Yes. But am talking about it as a seperate right (assemble a militia). Yes, you do it with a gun.  But, you can also assemble without as well.

Again, I am reading the text:
1. Need for military
2. Right to guns
3. Right to militarize (seperate from military or guns)
The Founders kept it simple for a reason and didn't include the term military.
It is about the individuals readiness and preparedness in defense of the individual State.
I get your point, but there is a reason for simplicity, so that the enemies of a free people couldn't, and wouldn't be able to parse away at our Liberties.
The Founders knew they needed to add Militia, because they feared an over bearing Federal Govt might usurp States Rights to defend themselves, and to have a militia, you have to see to it than an Individuals Right to bear Arms, not be infringed upon.

Truth is, the people could petition the govt to do away with all these big brother laws the NRA helped hogtie the people with. The idea was that the individual would posses the same weaponry as would a standing military, but the NRA helped craft the earliest gun legislation, and continues to do so to this day.
The NRA is akin to having the devil as your advocate. Sure, you'll win, but it won't be in your best interests.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 04:02:17 AM by Solar »
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Offline Dave

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 12:55:59 PM »
We can not solve the problem by assuming all people will obey the laws. Passing more restrictions, knowing the criminals will not comply, only weakens the law abiding citizens and takes away their protection. To understand which gun control laws are "needed" please understand this, every gun control law passed and recommended to pass by the liberals are meant to be the next step for gun confiscation. Liberals do not want you to own any gun.

Gun control laws are backwards.  They are always aimed at law abiding citizens.  Evil minds don't care about laws.  We should make a national registry of all felons who are not allowed guns in the first place.  They gave up that right. Next, an person under any other person for mental health treatment should go on the list as well.  They should not be removed unless 10 years passes without any treatment.

The issue of legal marijuana will be the bane of our society down the road.  The potent stuff currenly being sold legally effects the mind three ways, focus, anxiety, and depression.  This means more people should be on the list for gun denial.

Parents should be held responsible for the actions of their children under 18 years of age.  This Cruz kid in Florida,  was a known depressive individual. Treated at school, known to be by his mother but no tight controls of guns in his house.



Online s3779m

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Re: Rights and Responsibilities of the 2nd Amendment
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2019, 01:51:06 PM »
Gun control laws are backwards.  They are always aimed at law abiding citizens.  Evil minds don't care about laws.  We should make a national registry of all felons who are not allowed guns in the first place.  They gave up that right. Next, an person under any other person for mental health treatment should go on the list as well.  They should not be removed unless 10 years passes without any treatment.

The issue of legal marijuana will be the bane of our society down the road.  The potent stuff currenly being sold legally effects the mind three ways, focus, anxiety, and depression.  This means more people should be on the list for gun denial.

Parents should be held responsible for the actions of their children under 18 years of age.  This Cruz kid in Florida,  was a known depressive individual. Treated at school, known to be by his mother but no tight controls of guns in his house.
The liberal agenda is to take away guns from law abiding citizens. Period. It is not to keep you safe, it is not to protect you, it is not to keep guns out of the wrong hands, it is to take your guns. Personally, I think the 2nd sums up the only gun control we need, shall not be infringed. There is no new law that would have prevented cruz from doing what he did, but there were laws which were passed, and in effect, and obeyed, that made sure the teachers there could not defend themselves. And the liberals call that "common sense" gun laws.

 

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