Marxist Killing of the Oath

Started by Solar, December 20, 2019, 07:01:31 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Solar


Rep. Mike Johnson
@RepMikeJohnson
WATCH: Democrats PURPOSEFULLY omit "so help me God" from the swearing-in oath during yesterday's House Judiciary subcommittee hearing.

I will not give up on this issue. Stay tuned.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1101559115405500416
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Mjolnir

Hello.  I am brand new member.  Very excited to be here.

I thought the title of this post was interesting, but after reading it I don't understand what the point is.  How does omitting "so help me God" from an oath of office "kill" the oath, and what does it have to do with Marxism?

After all, the "No Religious Test Clause" of the Constitution proscribes any religious test requirement for public office.

supsalemgr

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 20, 2020, 10:39:56 AM
Hello.  I am brand new member.  Very excited to be here.

I thought the title of this post was interesting, but after reading it I don't understand what the point is.  How does omitting "so help me God" from an oath of office "kill" the oath, and what does it have to do with Marxism?

After all, the "No Religious Test Clause" of the Constitution proscribes any religious test requirement for public office.

Welcome to the forum. To answer your question, Marxism depends on the rejection of God. That is the simple answer.
"If you can't run with the big dawgs, stay on the porch!"

Solar

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 20, 2020, 10:39:56 AM
Hello.  I am brand new member.  Very excited to be here.

I thought the title of this post was interesting, but after reading it I don't understand what the point is.  How does omitting "so help me God" from an oath of office "kill" the oath, and what does it have to do with Marxism?

After all, the "No Religious Test Clause" of the Constitution proscribes any religious test requirement for public office.
You fail to grasp a belief in God is not a religion first off, and secondly, Marxism is all about removing God form any culture they invade.
You do know our Founding Documents were founded on Gods Law, Law of Nature, Right?
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Mjolnir

So there are a couple of different issues here. 

First, regarding Marxism and atheism:  yes, Marxist-Leninist atheism, as enshrined in Soviet doctrine, held that religion enslaved the human mind by encouraging passive acceptance of poverty and position in exchange for an eternal reward.  This reflected earlier work by earlier German philosophers who explored scientific materialist arguments against religion.  However, other strands of Marxism, notably Liberation Theology, used the church and religious teachings to combat poverty and oppression.  However, in the context of this video, I don't see any references to Marxism or atheism.  Not all Marxists are atheists, nor are all atheists Marxists.

The second issue has to do with a belief in God, religion in general, and the place of God in our founding documents.

Solar, it's not what you mean when you write that "a belief in God is not a religion."  I would say that to believe in
God is to believe in the supernatural, as God is by definition supernatural, i.e., able to suspend understood principles of physics and biology.  Now, there is an important distinction, and perhaps this is what you are referring to, between theism and deism.  As a rule, religions are theistic, that is, they hold that God (or gods) pay keen attention to and devote great interest in human affairs, demanding certain types of behaviors and worship and meting out divine reward and punishment.  Deism is the belief in a supernatural creator who takes no interest in human affairs.

Many of the founders and their philosophical inspirations comprised a spectrum of Deists: Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Paine, Allen, Locke, Adams, Washington.  Now to your point about (unspecified) Founding Documents being founding on Gods Law, Law of Nature, etc.:  the Founders were keenly aware of the divisive nature of religious belief and they assiduously removed support of any specific religion from the Constitution.  Whatever their private beliefs, they wanted religion out of government.  They understand that the best guarantor of religious liberty was a secular society, as militant theism seeks first to eradicate competing ideologies.   

So, coming back to the original question, how does it lessen, let alone "kill" an oath of office to remove the phrase "so help me God."  We ask people to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.  And again, the No Religious Test Clauses prohibits any religious test for office.  So how is the oath weakened?

Solar

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 20, 2020, 12:39:41 PM
So there are a couple of different issues here. 

First, regarding Marxism and atheism:  yes, Marxist-Leninist atheism, as enshrined in Soviet doctrine, held that religion enslaved the human mind by encouraging passive acceptance of poverty and position in exchange for an eternal reward.  This reflected earlier work by earlier German philosophers who explored scientific materialist arguments against religion.  However, other strands of Marxism, notably Liberation Theology, used the church and religious teachings to combat poverty and oppression.  However, in the context of this video, I don't see any references to Marxism or atheism.  Not all Marxists are atheists, nor are all atheists Marxists.

The second issue has to do with a belief in God, religion in general, and the place of God in our founding documents.

Solar, it's not what you mean when you write that "a belief in God is not a religion."  I would say that to believe in
God is to believe in the supernatural, as God is by definition supernatural, i.e., able to suspend understood principles of physics and biology.  Now, there is an important distinction, and perhaps this is what you are referring to, between theism and deism.  As a rule, religions are theistic, that is, they hold that God (or gods) pay keen attention to and devote great interest in human affairs, demanding certain types of behaviors and worship and meting out divine reward and punishment.  Deism is the belief in a supernatural creator who takes no interest in human affairs.

Many of the founders and their philosophical inspirations comprised a spectrum of Deists: Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Paine, Allen, Locke, Adams, Washington.  Now to your point about (unspecified) Founding Documents being founding on Gods Law, Law of Nature, etc.:  the Founders were keenly aware of the divisive nature of religious belief and they assiduously removed support of any specific religion from the Constitution.  Whatever their private beliefs, they wanted religion out of government.  They understand that the best guarantor of religious liberty was a secular society, as militant theism seeks first to eradicate competing ideologies.   

So, coming back to the original question, how does it lessen, let alone "kill" an oath of office to remove the phrase "so help me God."  We ask people to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.  And again, the No Religious Test Clauses prohibits any religious test for office.  So how is the oath weakened?
You have that completely bassackwards.
Our Bill of Rights sole purpose was a restriction on govt, using your logic, is the obverse of the same coin, which, had they not put restraints on govt, it would have been able to create a church.
The Founders were well aware of the dangers of the church and govt, so they restricted govt from interfering with all religion, hence, it was the very First Amendment to the Constitution, backed by the Second Amendment.

Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Sick Of Silence

Our nation was built on Christian values. No values equals no morality equals evil intensions.
With all these lawyers with cameras on the street i'm shocked we have so much crime in the world.

There is constitutional law and there is law and order. This challenge to law and order is always the start to loosing our constitutional rights.

Frauditors are a waste of life.

taxed

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 20, 2020, 12:39:41 PM
So there are a couple of different issues here. 

First, regarding Marxism and atheism:  yes, Marxist-Leninist atheism, as enshrined in Soviet doctrine, held that religion enslaved the human mind by encouraging passive acceptance of poverty and position in exchange for an eternal reward.

  This reflected earlier work by earlier German philosophers who explored scientific materialist arguments against religion.  However, other strands of Marxism, notably Liberation Theology, used the church and religious teachings to combat poverty and oppression.  However, in the context of this video, I don't see any references to Marxism or atheism.  Not all Marxists are atheists, nor are all atheists Marxists.

The second issue has to do with a belief in God, religion in general, and the place of God in our founding documents.

Solar, it's not what you mean when you write that "a belief in God is not a religion."  I would say that to believe in
God is to believe in the supernatural
, as God is by definition supernatural, i.e., able to suspend understood principles of physics and biology.  Now, there is an important distinction, and perhaps this is what you are referring to, between theism and deism.  As a rule, religions are theistic, that is, they hold that God (or gods) pay keen attention to and devote great interest in human affairs, demanding certain types of behaviors and worship and meting out divine reward and punishment.  Deism is the belief in a supernatural creator who takes no interest in human affairs.

Many of the founders and their philosophical inspirations comprised a spectrum of Deists: Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Paine, Allen, Locke, Adams, Washington.  Now to your point about (unspecified) Founding Documents being founding on Gods Law, Law of Nature, etc.:  the Founders were keenly aware of the divisive nature of religious belief and they assiduously removed support of any specific religion from the Constitution.  Whatever their private beliefs, they wanted religion out of government.  They understand that the best guarantor of religious liberty was a secular society, as militant theism seeks first to eradicate competing ideologies.   

So, coming back to the original question, how does it lessen, let alone "kill" an oath of office to remove the phrase "so help me God."  We ask people to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.  And again, the No Religious Test Clauses prohibits any religious test for office.  So how is the oath weakened?

I don't think nature is "supernatural".  I would also suggest maybe you don't have the mysteries of the universe figured out.
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Mjolnir

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on April 20, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Our nation was built on Christian values. No values equals no morality equals evil intensions.

Which ones exactly?

Mjolnir

Quote from: Solar on April 20, 2020, 12:50:32 PM
You have that completely bassackwards.
Our Bill of Rights sole purpose was a restriction on govt, using your logic, is the obverse of the same coin, which, had they not put restraints on govt, it would have been able to create a church.
The Founders were well aware of the dangers of the church and govt, so they restricted govt from interfering with all religion, hence, it was the very First Amendment to the Constitution, backed by the Second Amendment.

Either way, it amounts to the same thing.  Government was to be independent of religion, and religion free from government interference.  Which brings us back to my original question regarding the original post, why is it a problem, or unconstitutional, to remove the phrase "so help me God" from an oath of office?  The OP clearly thought that doing so was a bad idea.

Mjolnir

Quote from: taxed on April 20, 2020, 01:38:38 PM
I don't think nature is "supernatural".  I would also suggest maybe you don't have the mysteries of the universe figured out.

I certainly don't have the mysteries of the universe figured out.  Do you?  If so, please share.

But I hold to my statement that God is supernatural, by definition, being, as I said, not subject to laws to physics and biology as we understand them.  Nature, in contrast, is subject to those laws.

Solar

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 21, 2020, 02:04:21 PM
Either way, it amounts to the same thing.  Government was to be independent of religion, and religion free from government interference.  Which brings us back to my original question regarding the original post, why is it a problem, or unconstitutional, to remove the phrase "so help me God" from an oath of office?  The OP clearly thought that doing so was a bad idea.
Our Founders took an oath to God to protect this country. They never defined God, just that all law is based on Gods Law, the Laws of Nature.
Point is, for a culture to exist and prosper and find a cohesiveness in a belief, it needs to have faith in a supreme being, the belief that we are not above the law.

Does that make sense to you?
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

taxed

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 21, 2020, 02:07:02 PM
I certainly don't have the mysteries of the universe figured out.  Do you?  If so, please share.
You're the one who declared he knows what God is, and that he's supernatural.  I didn't make that idiotic statement.

Quote
But I hold to my statement that God is supernatural, by definition, being, as I said, not subject to laws to physics and biology as we understand them.  Nature, in contrast, is subject to those laws.
To be clear, are you saying man has figured everything out with nature and the universe?  Or are we still learning how things work?
#PureBlood #TrumpWon

Sick Of Silence

Quote from: Mjolnir on April 21, 2020, 02:00:11 PM
Which ones exactly?

Heard of the Ten Commandments?

Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not covet. Stuff like that.
With all these lawyers with cameras on the street i'm shocked we have so much crime in the world.

There is constitutional law and there is law and order. This challenge to law and order is always the start to loosing our constitutional rights.

Frauditors are a waste of life.

Possum