Quote from: Eyesabide on April 11, 2013, 06:52:31 PM
If your socks are made of cotton, you can scrape lint and get tinder that way.

Now that our beginner has tinder and fire starter, what do we have to ignite it with since the day just got cloudy?

Bow and Drill, I linked to it in the OP.
Maybe now would be a good time to move on to food, or shelter, depending on circumstances?

Quote from: walkstall on April 11, 2013, 05:29:22 PM
I have 6 Freznel lenses.  Also I find a full water bottle will work best for enlarging print.   Also a 4 to 6 inch round mirror is great for putting light down a hole or into the mouth of the cave.  A mirror will add more heat for starting a fire also.  My back deck will get up to 140º with the sun bouncing off the river in the A.M. and it's only be 55º in the shade.

Good point about the mirror though, a small round magnifying one would do a good job of lighting a fire.
But this is more about what you might happen to have on you at the time you find yourself stranded or on your own for whatever reason.

This threads purpose is to teach those that have never even been camping, let alone catch their own food, if anything, get them to start thinking that all things are possible, even worst case scenarios.

I know we have many on this forum that have these skills and are willing to share their knowledge with complete beginners in mind.
So we need to attack this with that in mind, someone that has no knowledge of the outdoors.

Maybe to make this more realistic (Here's the scenario). You just ate a huge meal and suddenly you were carjacked, the robbers drove you blindfolded and tied up in the trunk.
Several hours and several hundred miles, possibly 1000+ have passed (you just don't know) then you awake in a remote part of the country, kind of rolling foothills, and you are nowhere near civilization, roads, farms, nothing, no tire tracks, no idea which way to go, and nothing in your pockets.
At this point you realize getting help will be your secondary task, first you need to find water and build a fire, which we've covered.

You have on good jeans, work shirt, lace up boots and a good warm coat, they robbed you, remember?
That's all they left you with...

Quote from: Solar on April 11, 2013, 07:26:04 PM
Good point about the mirror though, a small round magnifying one would do a good job of lighting a fire.
But this is more about what you might happen to have on you at the time you find yourself stranded or on your own for whatever reason.

This threads purpose is to teach those that have never even been camping, let alone catch their own food, if anything, get them to start thinking that all things are possible, even worst case scenarios.

I know we have many on this forum that have these skills and are willing to share their knowledge with complete beginners in mind.
So we need to attack this with that in mind, someone that has no knowledge of the outdoors.

Maybe to make this more realistic (Here's the scenario). You just ate a huge meal and suddenly you were carjacked, the robbers drove you blindfolded and tied up in the trunk.
Several hours and several hundred miles, possibly 1000+ have passed (you just don't know) then you awake in a remote part of the country, kind of rolling foothills, and you are nowhere near civilization, roads, farms, nothing, no tire tracks, no idea which way to go, and nothing in your pockets.
At this point you realize getting help will be your secondary task, first you need to find water and build a fire, which we've covered.

You have on good jeans, work shirt, lace up boots and a good warm coat, they robbed you, remember?
That's all they left you with...

I am sorry, I don't remember water being covered.  Only fire.   Is it day time or night time?  Is there clouds at night or clear sky?  Day time are there clouds or sunshine?  Inquiring minds need to know.

We also need to know what the vegetation is, if any. And are we waiting for beginers to ask questions or say what they think before we guide them and learn from each other, or just jump in?

There are no tire tracks, which means you were either carried or airlifted, but if we assume we are raw cityfolk or abducted by aliens, and dropped down in a rolling hill area with no trees, you can make a level out of your fingers if you have to and find progressively higher points until you find a high ground you can use as a search point. On your way you can gather tinder and fire materials, possibly some plants that are edible. You can look for signs of water and animals as well. Keep an eye out for birds too, usually they are not ridiculously far from water, and certain species tend to stay near it.

Ah, sorry guys, when I said rolling foothills, it usually means the base of larger mountains behind them.
And yes, we can do a search for water, I mentioned in the OP we had it already, but looking back, many don't even know how to look for it.
So lets search out water first.

Since we're in the lower hills of a mountain range, there will be areas of brush as well as hardwoods mix, so there should be an abundance of wildlife, which is why I didn't throw you in the desert, didn't want to be that mean.

Weather is good and looks like it will hold for the next three days, you realize just how dire your situation is and know that food is of the utmost importance.

It is late summer with fall in the mix, so inclement weather is at hand, you survey the area, heavier forest is towards the mountains where you see buzzards beginning to circle in the distance, sun is directly overhead and the wind is picking up, but you have yet to determine from what direction.
It's actually a beautiful day that you would otherwise enjoy if your situation wasn't so dire.

You look around and some of your environment is similar to this.

Thanks for the clarification! To My mind, I was thinking either the foothills of southern Indiana, or maybe the rolling expanse of the high northwest.

      Also, the "Level" I mentioned would not be necessary in this terrain.

   The Photograph shows a strip of green trees, that might be a good direction to head for water.  If you had a full belly and have been traveling for a number of hours, you will need water soon. If you defecate, save a little. If you decide to stay nearby and signal for help, Just remember where you are using for a toilet. ( Musical Interlude Here.) I don't want to dominate this, am waiting for beginners and other opinions.

You have nothing to carry it in, other than your pockets, and if it's not solid.
But I know what you mean and it's a good point for later when camp is established.
The direction of trees would be my choice as well, and looking for a weapon along the way, it's lion and bear country, not that a stick will do a lot of damage, but it will be a deterrence.

I'm hoping people can put themselves in the moment and just how dire the situation is, no food, water, weapon or help, just you, your own abilities, instincts and knowledge as well as the will to live.

The first few days are of a desperate nature, your only concern at the moment should be concentrating on what might be edible.
Those gopher holes you keep passing over, or the rotten tree stumps full of termites, even the buzzards could yield an injured animal.
All sources of food, so keep track of where you pass them, you may be forced to return.

As you head towards the most likely area for water, there is scrub brush along the way. You might use your shirt or coat as a backpack to carry collected food and tinder, sticks or wood along the way. Since you have both, you are not exposing yourself to the elements too much. If you pass garbage from others, you might think how that might be useful too.

Sometimes, discomfort is part of the parcel. It will get easier.

In the original set of circumstances we were told we were in the middle of nowhere, but since we really do not know that as fact, assume it just seems that way. Beyond the likely water source is a tall hill, great for signaling from.

Ok. Now you have a direction, two target sites of water and signal areas. You have potential food sources, and lots of building materials. You have a pack to carry  stuff in, and you have eaten within the past twenty four hours. You have chosen to travel, and you should leave a signal for possible aircraft that you are lost and traveling in a certain direction. At the signal sight, scrape some information with a stick in the ground. Your name, health status, and needs. You could write it with small stones or sticks for a little more permanence. This is for ground travelers who might be in a search party for you. All of this serves two purposes. One, it helps get you calm and centered. It also is practical in that you are setting yourself up for outside help. Now, what time of day is it? You have been aware and active for about an hour. maybe a little less.

Good point about leaving directions to your whereabouts, a friend and I went camping, the map pointed us to a trail head in the desolation wilderness area near Lake Tahoe, but the trail was poorly marked and the trail was overgrown from lack of maintenance.
We ventured into the wilderness on what we thought was the trail, but actually missed it by mere feet, which sent us down the mountain off course by miles.

After sliding off a ledge and down the mountain about 600'. we came to a cliff, no way back up, we ventured West till we came to the bottom of the mountain near a stream and set up camp, the only level spot because it was a canyon with steep sides, we laid on a tarp on an old rotten stump that had decayed level on the ground.

Built a fire, it was now pitch dark out, around 3:00am I was awakened by bites on my arm, apparently our body heat had awakened a ladybug den and we were covered by tens of thousands of hungry ladybugs.

We never got anymore sleep and at daybreak decided we wouldn't spend another night since we were completely lost.
We headed back up the mountain, but because of a long impassable cliff ridge, we had to traverse the mountain.
Figuring if we headed N/E we might pick up the old trail.

After hours of stumbling over extremely rough terrain, things were starting to look bleak, considering the nearest town was miles away and the most recent sign of man being in the area was a mine, tracks and a few abandoned mine carts made of iron, most likely from the gold rush era.
I decided to use my bright blue sleeping bag as a marker arrow to direct any possible search party that may have to look for us, and some other items I didn't need.

Nearly sundown, and close to the mountain top, still worried we would never find the truck again, I stumbled across the trail, which in this area looked like a clean highway compared to the terrain we had been crossing.
Yep, it was the trail we couldn't find in the beginning.
Walked up the trail a few hundred feet and there was the truck.

Completely exhausted and out of water, we attacked the the food supplies and water and sat there thinking how lucky we were.

More than twenty years go by and I get a phone call from search and rescue, they had found my sleeping bag and my name was still legible on the tag.
They had been searching for another group of campers that got lost looking for the same trail we tried to find.
She said they had found the group not far from where I had left my bag, she said she had informed the Forest Service that the trail head was so over grown, that it was a wonder they hadn't found bodies from other lost campers.

So yes, definitely leave rocks and sticks and as you pointed out, your name and such on the ground.

I now carry GPS whenever I venture into the forest, something I wish we had back in 1976 when we got lost.

Man, I've always wanted to go on a week long excursion into the wilderness areas around here, but all my friends are too damn lazy and/or out of shape, my fiancee doesn't like roughing it, and she probably wouldn't be too keen on me doing it alone. Someday!

Okay, so I'll bite.  I figured as much about the trees, but what about shelter?  What are you looking for if anything?  Or, is the main objective to keep moving, in which case, you will eventually need easy calories... Right?

Quote from: JustKari on April 15, 2013, 05:05:22 PM
Okay, so I'll bite.  I figured as much about the trees, but what about shelter?  What are you looking for if anything?  Or, is the main objective to keep moving, in which case, you will eventually need easy calories... Right?

First and foremost, water above all else, though in an area like this, it should be relatively easy to spot.
This is why I chose late summer, you simply scan the horizon for the most green spot on a hillside.
There is usually a spring seeping up just below the surface, even canyons can be bone dry in late summer, but some springs trickle year round, even in drought.
Once you find an area that is far greener than the surrounding terrain, go to where it starts to lead over the cliff or ridge and back up a few feet and dig down, you should hit moist soil, keep trenching down hill to the ridge, so as to create a canal of sorts.
The great thing about a source of water like this, is it's generally pure and unspoiled by animal feces.
It may only be a few ounces an hour, but it will sustain you indefinitely.

There are several ways to create a shelter, but if you have trees in the area, a quick and easy one is to find a tree with a crook in it about 3, to 4' up the side, or a large knothole.
Then you find a straight limb about 10 or more' long, maybe 3 to 4 " across, set one end into the ground, the other into the crook or (Y) in the tree, or knothole, this should look like a slide.
Now gather a whole bunch of limbs and lean them at roughly the same angle of the long support limb you placed in the crook, should look like an A without the horizontal line, start at the high end, leave enough room between the first branch and the tree for your entrance.
Look for vines of some kind to use for lashing, like a rope to tie the limbs in place, or tangle foot, a ground cover that also climbs, be careful to avoid poison oak, it may not have any leaves at ground level, but far up the tree  you will see, leaves of three, so let it be.
But lashing isn't mandatory, it just helps secure while you pile on debris.

Now repeat alternating from one side to the other till you have a sideways half TP on the ground.
Then cover with limbs covered in leaves, and grass, or whatever is abundant, and cover it thick, the thicker the better, it will keep cool in the day and warm and dry at night.
And don't try and make it look pretty, the limbs you use as walls should still have branches attached, this helps hold the debris you place on it's roof.
Here's a couple of pics I found that will help.

I'm sure Eyes has some other illustrations
Though not very pretty, these are the easiest and quickest to build




Food is next and the trickiest if you don't want to eat bugs.

JTA, There are many "Non rough" ways to take your fiancée out of doors and slowly introduce the fun stuff while a warm shower and bugless bed await. There are some resort camps that might have hotels in semi wild settings, The Grand Canyon comes to mind, and I have rented weekend cabins on lakes and at the ocean front. You can sneak in skill building for survival stuff as just cool things to do, just don't put to much pressure on it. A fire building lesson or bow and drill skills can be only a few minutes long as you rest between more touristy things.

JustKari, you are correct, easy calories are important, moving or not. In most situations, it is best to stay put, find water, food and shelter ( not always in that order) and signal for help. This exercise is set up to be a little more dynamic in that you have to find what you need, and the best place to signal from is not right where you are. You also might have to travel a long distance for self rescue. Remember, you were abducted and robbed, and set alone to fend for yourself.

JustKari, On the move or not, shelter is very important. You might have different shelters in different terrains or seasons. Shelter does several things. It protects you from temperature extremes and wind, rain or snow, and it has a psychological benefit as well. People tend to feel secure in some kind of shelter, and that keeps panic at bay. Debris huts are great, but don't forget to insulate the outside with at least two and a half feet of insulation, and fill the inside as well. Never forget that critters might be hiding in the materials you are gathering, and to shake that out or pass a stick through your piles of dead leaves or grass before gathering. Other fast shelters can be  made, but almost all basically have some kind of frame, insulation or waterproof/ windproof shield, and padding to sleep on. Here it is brushy, and it looks grassy too, but remember you do not have tools, and we are still looking for water. It is going to get cold soon, and you want to have some shelter. You might have to wait for water in the morning. For your first night, it might be best to get as close to where you think the water will be, but still have enough daylight to make a quick overnight shelter. Is it windy?

Since it is just for the night, you might take your belt and use it to bend two or three bushes together if you cannot find a long sapling or pole. Shorter sticks can be stuck through the brush branches and stuff the tiny space in the middle with as much grass as you can find. Layer up bark or sticks around the base to block wind and hold the grass in, and use the brushes branches to secure more debris. Then push yourself into the grass and settle in for the night. You want to work steady and hard, but not to the point where you are going to sweat.  Once you find a place to wait for rescue, the Debris hut is a little more permanent. * If you find a suitable club, set it aside. same if you find a good walking stick.