Life is what YOU make it!

Started by cubedemon, June 22, 2015, 11:40:14 PM

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quiller

Quote from: Solar on July 03, 2015, 08:56:03 AM
Why are you under the illusion , me, or anyone else owes you a damned thing?
Let this be a lesson in life. You nor anyone else dictates what I do, how I respond, or whether I respond at all.
Like I said, I gave you an answer, it's not incumbent upon me to walk you by the hand explaining the meaning of each and every word or iteration thereof.

In other words, figure it out on your own.
I owe you nothing, I have a forum to run, and your demands come across like that of a spoiled child demanding answers to a toddlers imperative and jussive mood of "Whhhhhyyy?".

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyJPM2jIwjQ

Solar

Quote from: quiller on July 03, 2015, 09:18:23 AM
Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyJPM2jIwjQ
:biggrin:
Oh God, I still have the LP.
Yeah, but I'm not the one claiming air is nothing more than a source for filling volley balls and basket balls.
Though I get what you're saying, and it's a phrase I use regularly to answer obvious questions, with the response of "Why is there air?"

Sadly, most that receive this reply, aren't old enough to understand the reference.

However, this reminds me of another example in dealing with libs. "Awwrightttt, Who threw the bullet, in the furnace?"
Libs invariably cop to the truth out of pure stupidity, as in,  "Hey, I didn't throw no bullet in the furnace! And STOP TALKING ABOUT MY MOTHER!"
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quiller

Quote from: Solar on July 03, 2015, 09:33:11 AM
:biggrin:
Oh God, I still have the LP.
Yeah, but I'm not the one claiming air is nothing more than a source for filling volley balls and basket balls.
Though I get what you're saying, and it's a phrase I use regularly to answer obvious questions, with the response of "Why is there air?"

Sadly, most that receive this reply, aren't old enough to understand the reference.

However, this reminds me of another example in dealing with libs. "Awwrightttt, Who threw the bullet, in the furnace?"
Libs invariably cop to the truth out of pure stupidity, as in,  "Hey, I didn't throw no bullet in the furnace! And STOP TALKING ABOUT MY MOTHER!"

This troll's no different than so many parasites wanting lifelong handouts and never a challenge to their beliefs. He demands answers when the solution is solely within himself.

And I just won a bet with myself that you still had that album.  :lol: :lol:

Solar

Quote from: quiller on July 03, 2015, 09:41:32 AM
This troll's no different than so many parasites wanting lifelong handouts and never a challenge to their beliefs. He demands answers when the solution is solely within himself.

And I just won a bet with myself that you still had that album.  :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Haven't listened to it in more than forty years, but it's humor is indelibly marked within my memory.
Despite the claims against him as an individual, he is the standard in which every comedian should strive for.
IMO, he is the epitome of true comedy.

Of, and Cube isn't a troll, he actually suffers a loss of mental acuity, by no fault of his own.
What I'm attempting is a form of "tough love", by forcing him to fend for himself.
One can only learn through trial and failure.
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cubedemon

Quote from: Solar on July 03, 2015, 08:56:03 AM
Why are you under the illusion , me, or anyone else owes you a damned thing?
Let this be a lesson in life. You nor anyone else dictates what I do, how I respond, or whether I respond at all.
Like I said, I gave you an answer, it's not incumbent upon me to walk you by the hand explaining the meaning of each and every word or iteration thereof.

In other words, figure it out on your own.
I owe you nothing, I have a forum to run, and your demands come across like that of a spoiled child demanding answers to a toddlers imperative and jussive mood of "Whhhhhyyy?".

Again, the burden of proof for any claim made rests upon the claimant.  If you claim that an invisible pink unicorn exists the burden of proof rests upon you to prove your claim.  It's not up to me to prove that it does not.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

For instance, can you prove that all and any obstacle is surmountable by anyone and everyone no matter what their circumstances?

Can you prove that anyone and everyone can figure out life on their own with no guidance and instruction whatsoever?

Can you prove that all people across the globe have internal locus of control with no external constraints whatsoever?


Can you prove with logic and empirical evidence that in all iterations that life is both unfair and that life is what we make it?   How can both of these propositions occur at the exact time in the exact same instance?

You're laboring under assumptions in which a person is questioning the validity to their claim.  If people are to accept what you all claim as gospel truth and you all want it enacted as public policy and in the social veneer as well then you should be prepared to have your truths and propositions questioned and examined.  You should be open to questioning and examination.  The person doing the examinations could be laboring under faulty premises and in some of the cases I have. 

There's something ironic to this.  I've questioned feminists and their belief system as well.   I have asked them if we live in a rape culture then why are rapists reviled and locked up especially male rapists?   They've said many times that no one is entitled to anything from any woman including their body.  I've said I accept that but if this is true then why do you feel obligated for a man to pay for you on a date?

What's funny is when questioned even when trying to understand is that both of your groups have different outlooks and beliefs yet your emotional reactions and behaviors are the same.   There's the ad hominem attacks i.e. calling me a whiner and spoiled child.  feminists calling me a misogynist.   More curse words are involved.   one of your members increasing your font size.   I've seen feminists do this to.   becoming annoyed or angry.   

It's like you all are attached to your beliefs and depend upon them so heavily that the beliefs themselves become sacred in of themselves and are not open to questioning even to grasp things better.   Why?   Why are both of your groups so emotionally attached to your beliefs no matter if they contain contradictions or are fallacious or not.

I think I understand now what someone told me when people in general are logical but psycho-logical.   People don't look for logical truth in of itself like the great philosopher Socrates.   People are emotionally attached to their beliefs, they depend upon them and the beliefs help to make up a core part of who the person.

Solar, the idea of overcoming obstacles is a part of who you are.   This is a part of your identity and the DNA of your soul.  Fascinating!   

cubedemon

QuoteOf, and Cube isn't a troll, he actually suffers a loss of mental acuity, by no fault of his own.
What I'm attempting is a form of "tough love", by forcing him to fend for himself.

Maybe I do.  It is logically possible.  If it turns out that I'm wrong somewhere I will fix it someway, somehow because I have my own emotional attachments as well and that is to truth, logic, rationality,etc.

If I'm wrong somewhere, then I am wrong. 






cubedemon

Quote from: quiller on July 03, 2015, 09:41:32 AM
This troll's no different than so many parasites wanting lifelong handouts and never a challenge to their beliefs. He demands answers when the solution is solely within himself.

And I just won a bet with myself that you still had that album.  :lol: :lol:

Let's say I do suffer from mental acuity as Solar suggests.   What if it is my Autism that causes this?   If this is the case then how can the solution be solely be within myself?   A human being like a computer has input, processor and output.   Input comes in through different senses that I have.   If the processor is screwed up like Solar suggests then won't the inputs (Information) be transformed into faulty data which will come out as garbage through my outputs?

Solar, if my mind is pure garbage and purely screwed up with loss of mental acuity to the point of dysfunction then how can I use this same mental acuity to fix myself?  How?   How will tough love work for me as you suggest?  How do you get from A to B to C?

cubedemon

#52
If I could figure things out on my own then why I haven't I done so already?   If the best thing for a person is to figure things out on his own and this maximizes what this person can be then why wouldn't they do what is best for themselves especially if they're selfish?   I would be better off being employed than receiving any kind of welfare.  The welfare now is called TANF and one doesn't receive as much and one can never receive or earn more.  One is limited on how long one can stay on welfare.   

With respect to SSDI, one doesn't get paid as much as one would if he was employed and again one can never increase how much one gets in SSDI.  Logically, the best choice is for me to be employed either by an employer or be self-employed.  Why don't I do what is the most logical course of action that would be the most beneficial to myself especially if one considers me extremely selfish?   

Answer:   There are those who cannot do so, such as myself,  on their own no matter what tough love is given. 

If everyone could do so then by logic wouldn't everyone do so?  If everyone could overcome any obstacle they encounter then why wouldn't they do so especially if it is in their best interest to do so? 

Answer:  It's because not every obstacle is surmountable by everyone and anyone.   

If every person could surmount every obstacle thrown their way then the burden of proof is upon you to prove this as so.  Otherwise Solar, I will have to question your mental acuity as well.     

If everyone could do as you suggest then wouldn't life be fair or at least become more fairer and just?   If everyone could overcome obstacles then wouldn't everyone be able to get what they needed on their own without government, socialism, welfare, or disability?   Why wouldn't they do this?

Answer:  Because life isn't fair and not everyone will get what they want or need no matter how hard they try to do it on their own.  Some people not being able to overcome obstacles is part of the unfairness of life so logically solar your claims make absolutely no sense.  If they do make sense, again, the burden of proof is upon you as the interlocutor to prove your case.


Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on July 03, 2015, 10:17:57 AM
Again, the burden of proof for any claim made rests upon the claimant.  If you claim that an invisible pink unicorn exists the burden of proof rests upon you to prove your claim.  It's not up to me to prove that it does not.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

Not really understanding your point over my statement:
"No! Only an idiot follows the crowd. Life is what "YOU" make it, not what the majority decides is good."
I'll ask you this. Do you have core values you refuse to compromise?
The answer you're looking for from me, is your very own, the very way you answer that question, will explain what I said.
I can't make it any clearer, without posting the Ten ommandments.

QuoteFor instance, can you prove that all and any obstacle is surmountable by anyone and everyone no matter what their circumstances?

Can you prove that anyone and everyone can figure out life on their own with no guidance and instruction whatsoever?

Can you prove that all people across the globe have internal locus of control with no external constraints whatsoever?


Can you prove with logic and empirical evidence that in all iterations that life is both unfair and that life is what we make it?   How can both of these propositions occur at the exact time in the exact same instance?
Of course I could, but the answer is not in words, rather actions, Grasshopper.

QuoteYou're laboring under assumptions in which a person is questioning the validity to their claim.  If people are to accept what you all claim as gospel truth and you all want it enacted as public policy and in the social veneer as well then you should be prepared to have your truths and propositions questioned and examined.  You should be open to questioning and examination.  The person doing the examinations could be laboring under faulty premises and in some of the cases I have. 
So you question my belief that murder committed during a robbery is wrong, that torturing animals isn't sick?
These are core values, these are issues that no sane individual with a conscience will waver on.

QuoteThere's something ironic to this.  I've questioned feminists and their belief system as well.   I have asked them if we live in a rape culture then why are rapists reviled and locked up especially male rapists?   They've said many times that no one is entitled to anything from any woman including their body.  I've said I accept that but if this is true then why do you feel obligated for a man to pay for you on a date?
You're dealing with an emotional issue, one where they completely eliminate all critical thinking.

QuoteWhat's funny is when questioned even when trying to understand is that both of your groups have different outlooks and beliefs yet your emotional reactions and behaviors are the same.   There's the ad hominem attacks i.e. calling me a whiner and spoiled child.  feminists calling me a misogynist.   More curse words are involved.   one of your members increasing your font size.   I've seen feminists do this to.   becoming annoyed or angry.
Using your logic, you just accused me of being an illogical femminazi.
See how that works?
I never called you a child, but that's the excuse you used to make your claim.
Keep that shit up, and you lose all credibility. Oh wait, let me yell that so you have something else to Whine about. Keep that shit up, and you lose all credibility!

QuoteIt's like you all are attached to your beliefs and depend upon them so heavily that the beliefs themselves become sacred in of themselves and are not open to questioning even to grasp things better.   Why?   Why are both of your groups so emotionally attached to your beliefs no matter if they contain contradictions or are fallacious or not.

Yes, that's what being Conservative is all about, having a clear and distinct understanding of Right and Wrong.

QuoteI think I understand now what someone told me when people in general are logical but psycho-logical.   People don't look for logical truth in of itself like the great philosopher Socrates.   People are emotionally attached to their beliefs, they depend upon them and the beliefs help to make up a core part of who the person.
Then you need to study his philosophy more indepth, because you completely misunderstand what he is saying.
I believe he is referencing religious belief.
Conservatives on the other hand depend on critical thinking, the very thing Socrates was noted for.

QuoteSolar, the idea of overcoming obstacles is a part of who you are.   This is a part of your identity and the DNA of your soul.  Fascinating!
Yes, it's the very essence of life.
Ask yourself, what is life, other than a series of obstacles to be either harnessed/tamed or overcome.
What would life be like without a single obstacle? Think about that.
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Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on July 03, 2015, 11:46:44 AM
If I could figure things out on my own then why I haven't I done so already?   If the best thing for a person is to figure things out on his own and this maximizes what this person can be then why wouldn't they do what is best for themselves especially if they're selfish?   I would be better off being employed than receiving any kind of welfare.  The welfare now is called TANF and one doesn't receive as much and one can never receive or earn more.  One is limited on how long one can stay on welfare.   

With respect to SSDI, one doesn't get paid as much as one would if he was employed and again one can never increase how much one gets in SSDI.  Logically, the best choice is for me to be employed either by an employer or be self-employed.  Why don't I do what is the most logical course of action that would be the most beneficial to myself especially if one considers me extremely selfish?   

Answer:   There are those who cannot do so, such as myself,  on their own no matter what tough love is given. 

If everyone could do so then by logic wouldn't everyone do so?  If everyone could overcome any obstacle they encounter then why wouldn't they do so especially if it is in their best interest to do so? 

Answer:  It's because not every obstacle is surmountable by everyone and anyone.   

If every person could surmount every obstacle thrown their way then the burden of proof is upon you to prove this as so.  Otherwise Solar, I will have to question your mental acuity as well.     
I never questioned you mental acuity, I thought it was the equivilient of a term you used.
My bad if I misunderstood.
As to your claim of overcoming obstacles, many are simply impossible, like defying gravity, so we find workarounds, that is what sets man apart from all specie, we have the ability of reason and critical thought.

You need to not take everything so literal.

QuoteIf everyone could do as you suggest then wouldn't life be fair or at least become more fairer and just?   If everyone could overcome obstacles then wouldn't everyone be able to get what they needed on their own without government, socialism, welfare, or disability?   Why wouldn't they do this?
Life isn't fair, wasn't designed to be. Just ask a blind person, yet they find ways to still make the best of life, and I have a feeling you can't seem to find the simplest of joys, though I could be wrong, but it seems you strive for some kind of perfection.

QuoteAnswer:  Because life isn't fair and not everyone will get what they want or need no matter how hard they try to do it on their own.  Some people not being able to overcome obstacles is part of the unfairness of life so logically solar your claims make absolutely no sense.  If they do make sense, again, the burden of proof is upon you as the interlocutor to prove your case.

Exactly! Life is not fair, it's incumbent upon the individual to make the best of their station in life.
It's why our culture survived under charity, it's what Christians believe as a major part of their religion, that we have a responsibility to mankind.
It's why the idiot (not a derogatory term) was able to sell pencils on the corner for his meager existence, because people had an obligation to help, not the govt, but the individual, it is the compassionate thing to do.
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cubedemon

Quote"No! Only an idiot follows the crowd. Life is what "YOU" make it, not what the majority decides is good."

Sighs in frustration.  If one is required to make eye contact as part of the social norms including obtaining employment then one has to do as the Romans do no matter if I can or cannot unless one leaves society. 

QuoteI'll ask you this. Do you have core values you refuse to compromise?

No, Some values have greater precedent than others.   Example:  I value truth and honesty.   To save someone's life may require one to lie.  Not so simple.

QuoteThe answer you're looking for from me, is your very own, the very way you answer that question, will explain what I said.

My answer is we're all bounded by differing internal and external constraints so my conclusion is life is somewhat, what we make it to be.  Some can work around these constraints and some cannot.  My answer is it is very nuanced and not so simple.


QuoteI can't make it any clearer, without posting the Ten ommandments.

Irrelevant to whether life is what you make it or not. 


QuoteOf course I could, but the answer is not in words, rather actions, Grasshopper.

I will take this as a no.


QuoteSo you question my belief that murder committed during a robbery is wrong, that torturing animals isn't sick?

Depends upon what one is robbing and whom you murder.   What if it was for national security?   By your logic of torturing animals then you must agree that Enhanced interrogation techniques is wrong since man is a mammal and all mammals are animals  .


QuoteThese are core values, these are issues that no sane individual with a conscience will waver on.

unless they conflict

QuoteYou're dealing with an emotional issue, one where they completely eliminate all critical thinking.

Yes, my friend they do.
 
QuoteUsing your logic, you just accused me of being an illogical femminazi.
See how that works?
I never called you a child, but that's the excuse you used to make your claim.
Keep that shit up, and you lose all credibility. Oh wait, let me yell that so you have something else to Whine about. Keep that shit up, and you lose all credibility!

I apologize for offending you.

QuoteYes, that's what being Conservative is all about, having a clear and distinct understanding of Right and Wrong.

Which is one of the things I'm attempting to do.


QuoteThen you need to study his philosophy more indepth, because you completely misunderstand what he is saying.

you're right

QuoteConservatives on the other hand depend on critical thinking, the very thing Socrates was noted for.

Which is one of the things I'm attempting to do. I will get better with time and practice.

QuoteYes, it's the very essence of life.


You know what, I actually agree.

QuoteAsk yourself, what is life, other than a series of obstacles to be either harnessed/tamed or overcome.
What would life be like without a single obstacle? Think about that.

The answer is stagnation.  We would become like the Eloi in The Time Machine.

Solar

Quote from: cubedemon on July 05, 2015, 11:25:06 AM
Sighs in frustration.  If one is required to make eye contact as part of the social norms including obtaining employment then one has to do as the Romans do no matter if I can or cannot unless one leaves society. 

No, Some values have greater precedent than others.   Example:  I value truth and honesty.   To save someone's life may require one to lie.  Not so simple.
So you place more value on truth over the life of another?
You have some serious soul searching to do.

QuoteMy answer is we're all bounded by differing internal and external constraints so my conclusion is life is somewhat, what we make it to be.  Some can work around these constraints and some cannot.  My answer is it is very nuanced and not so simple.

So yes, life is what "YOU" make it out to be. Sure, it may not meet your standards of what you perceive it should be, but then, even the richest men in the world are still bound by their own personal, physical and mental limitations.
So again, you work within the parameters life has set for you and you make it work, find joy in the little things and don't focus on things you have no control over.


QuoteIrrelevant to whether life is what you make it or not. 
I will take this as a no.
You asked:
"Can you prove with logic and empirical evidence that in all iterations that life is both unfair and that life is what we make it?   How can both of these propositions occur at the exact time in the exact same instance?"
The answer is obvious. If you suddenly become wheelchair bound, (not fair) you make the best of your situation.

QuoteDepends upon what one is robbing and whom you murder.   What if it was for national security?   By your logic of torturing animals then you must agree that Enhanced interrogation techniques is wrong since man is a mammal and all mammals are animals  .

First you need to understand the legal definition of murder: "Unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being"
Second, torturing an animal serves no purpose, none, only a sick bastard would do such a heinous act.
And no, I do not see Enhanced interrogation techniques as torture, because saving the life or live in this case is for the greater good, therefore it serves a purpose.

Quoteunless they conflict
They don't.
   
QuoteI apologize for offending you.
You didn't, I was making a point. It takes a lot to offend me, in fact, I can't even think of an example.

QuoteYou know what, I actually agree.

The answer is stagnation.  We would become like the Eloi in The Time Machine.
Good illustration. Or that of a single cell amoebae.

But then, maybe the simplest form of life has it's own issues as well. :biggrin:
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cubedemon

QuoteSo you place more value on truth over the life of another?
You have some serious soul searching to do.

Hell no.  I value life of others more than truth which is why it is ok to lie sometimes.   That contradiction has been resolved.

QuoteSo yes, life is what "YOU" make it out to be. Sure, it may not meet your standards of what you perceive it should be, but then, even the richest men in the world are still bound by their own personal, physical and mental limitations.
So again, you work within the parameters life has set for you and you make it work, find joy in the little things and don't focus on things you have no control over.

Answer A:  I took a step back and I think we're both saying the same thing.   I think what's happening is that I'm getting caught up in the semantics on this.   What you're saying is the statement includes the limitations and parameters.   Basically, you're implying this.   

QuoteYou asked:
"Can you prove with logic and empirical evidence that in all iterations that life is both unfair and that life is what we make it?   How can both of these propositions occur at the exact time in the exact same instance?"
The answer is obvious. If you suddenly become wheelchair bound, (not fair) you make the best of your situation.

See Answer A.



QuoteFirst you need to understand the legal definition of murder: "Unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being"

Who is the definer of this legal definition?   

QuoteSecond, torturing an animal serves no purpose, none, only a sick bastard would do such a heinous act.

I get what you're saying.


QuoteAnd no, I do not see Enhanced interrogation techniques as torture, because saving the life or live in this case is for the greater good, therefore it serves a purpose.

Yes, they are torture no matter their purpose.   Question is are there cases in which torture is moral just like are there cases in which lying is moral.

This is what we've established so far.   Human life is more valuable than truth and one must lie at times to save lives.  There are cases in which torture is moral especially when one is protecting the national security of this nation or protecting our nation's citizen's lives.    We've established these things and that there is a greater good.   Based upon this rationality and logic, if one is starving in the streets and sees no way to obtain food than it is moral for one to take from the store especially if they're unemployable.   If a person can't survive except to steal then by logic one can steal.   

By this logic, those who can't make it whatsoever can go ahead and steal whatever it is they need to survive since human life and saving lives is one of the greater goods and greater goods exist.