Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Survival Tips => Topic started by: AndyJackson on January 09, 2013, 10:16:44 AM

Title: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 09, 2013, 10:16:44 AM
I was wondering, what would you do to stockpile the best possible alternatives to guns, if you thought confiscation was actually on it's way  ?  Unregistered / untracked stuff.

Right off the top of my head -

High Powered Pellet Rifles (a real ban would probably lump these in, though there's no paperwork as we speak)
Nailguns
Flareguns
Spearguns
Blowguns
Highest quality slingshots
Crossbows (is there paperwork for the badass ones ? I don't really know)

I've seen descriptions of (and in some movies, actually) contingency homemade shotguns.  Two different diameters of pipe that slide tightly inside/outside each other, inside pipe a diameter that a shotgun shell fits snugly into, outside pipe capped at the back end with a centered nail or something to 'pop' the primer charge (and hope the cap / threads hold, lol).  You'd need some sort of handles front and back.  Imagine the run on pipe and shotgun shells as the ban/confiscation heated up, lol.  I'm sure you'd need to be quick with the ammo, as the ban would surely roll that in as well.

I'm sure it can go all the way to silly, lol.

Just food for thought, on an interesting scenario.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 09, 2013, 12:24:04 PM
I have a high velocity pellet rifle. High powerd is a huge overstatement; the projectiles, although traveling at higher speeds than standart .22 LR, weigh only about 5 grains.
Nailgun? A little noisy, kinda hard to carry around a compressor, don't ya think?
I'm pretty sure flareguns are already controlled under NFA legislation as AOWs.
Spearguns have short range and low accuracy, as they are made for catching fish, but at close range might be an effective defensive weapon.
Blowgun- only if you know how to use one are these remotely useful. I bought a mid range one not too long ago for fun and could not hit a darn thing.
Slingshots With a slingshot about the highest velocity you can hope for is 200fps
Crossbows are already quite regulated in some states. In my state only the handicapped can hunt with a crossbow, in many european countries they arre illegal.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 09, 2013, 12:59:05 PM
They have flare guns just sitting there in a case with other higher cost items in the boating / fishing section, at WalMart, with flares hanging on the open racks.  I don't think there's any paperwork for them.

The picture in my mind of only handicapped folks using crossbows....is odd indeed.  Prolly a Gary Larson cartoon in there somewhere.  Or a Southpark episode.

I know the pellets are small, but they are in fact .22 in caliber (or .177).  With a 1000-1200 fps velocity, they are pretty good for taking out various animals.  Being hollow they do flatten a bit like an expanding slug.  Not as good as the real thing, but if there's no more real thing, not bad.

I'd imagine you could get disposable cylinders of compressed gas for a nailgun.  Keep in mind, it wouldn't be for a firefight lol.   Just to get the guy coming in through your window.

Some of these things like slingshots, you're not trying to defeat a spetnatz unit.  Just laying a bad guy out, so that you can get away or get on him.  A wrist rocket with the steel ball bearings.....pretty tough.

I'm just throwing these out as good last ditch alternatives.

The far end of difficult would be atlatl's and other slings.  Now you're talking Mad Max, or Biblical, times.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 09, 2013, 04:00:19 PM
I misread the NFA regulations for flareguns- if inserts are used they are illegal. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html)
As for airguns they do perform quite well on squirrels and rabbits, If used with good shot placement could be very effective in engaging a human threat. I might be able to post some picture of various pellets after being shot through a row of soup cans. Some expand well, others penetrate really well.

I love my atlatl.. I get better accuracy with that than my bow. I also have a wristrocket- Im not very good but some are with accuracy. I've been studying improvised weapons for a little while and it seems like the best thing cn be made (or just picked up) from typical household items.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Solar on January 09, 2013, 04:05:26 PM
I carry a flare gun in my truck, and if you want, you can stick a real shell in it for one time use.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 07:42:37 AM
A very good apocalyptic movie, and way underappreciated, is The Road.  The main character shoots a guy with a flare gun.  Not a high accuracy or high success weapon, but if there was nothing else, I wouldn't mind having it for close-in protection.  It would have some other utilitarian uses as well.

Buy a few, and a big box full of flares, and you're under the radar for basic, close quarters self-defense.  Just have to hide / cache it well.

That's interesting, the idea of one real shell going through it.  I'd be a little nervous, the material of the flare gun doesn't look alll that strong.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Solar on January 10, 2013, 07:58:16 AM
A very good apocalyptic movie, and way underappreciated, is The Road.  The main character shoots a guy with a flare gun.  Not a high accuracy or high success weapon, but if there was nothing else, I wouldn't mind having it for close-in protection.  It would have some other utilitarian uses as well.

Buy a few, and a big box full of flares, and you're under the radar for basic, close quarters self-defense.  Just have to hide / cache it well.

That's interesting, the idea of one real shell going through it.  I'd be a little nervous, the material of the flare gun doesn't look alll that strong.
:laugh:
It's not, that's why it's a one time use, in that the barrel would most likely disintegrate.
Though you could line the barrel with a thin metal tube good for several shots, I keep mine where I can grab it in the event of a car jacking, a face full of fire tends to deter repeat offenses. :biggrin:

I also have a can of bear spray, but I want to make a lasting impression, one that will last a lifetime.
Imagine if this idiot shot himself in the face. Whatever possessed this moron to do this in the first place is beyond my comprehension, but it makes my point nonetheless. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Shoot Yourself In The Head With A Flare Gun...Why Not? (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81261418#)
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 10, 2013, 11:01:43 AM
For $60 yyou can shoot .45 LC and .410 with one of these things. http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-subcaliber-device-flare-gun-insert-p-2719.html (http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-subcaliber-device-flare-gun-insert-p-2719.html)
Considering it has no sights or rifling it wouldn't be particularly useful in anything other than a "across the room" engagement, but it shoots.

- Oh, and Solar when I tried to exit that from the webpage that linked to, three popups for "boob enhancement" showed up. :lol:
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Solar on January 10, 2013, 11:22:52 AM
For $60 yyou can shoot .45 LC and .410 with one of these things. http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-subcaliber-device-flare-gun-insert-p-2719.html (http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-subcaliber-device-flare-gun-insert-p-2719.html)
Considering it has no sights or rifling it wouldn't be particularly useful in anything other than a "across the room" engagement, but it shoots.

- Oh, and Solar when I tried to exit that from the webpage that linked to, three popups for "boob enhancement" showed up. :lol:
missed the boobs, it closed fine for me, though I use Mozilla ad blocker, but the insert isn't available in my state the Socialist state of Ca.
It's also illegal for me to change my flare gun in anyway, though it is a one shot plastic gun, so I guess I could use it and burn it, leaving no evidence.

Officer, he suddenly burst into flames all on his on, spontaneous combustion?  :lol:
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 10, 2013, 01:05:27 PM
For $60 yyou can shoot .45 LC and .410 with one of these things. http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-subcaliber-device-flare-gun-insert-p-2719.html (http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/45-lc-410-shotgun-subcaliber-device-flare-gun-insert-p-2719.html)
Considering it has no sights or rifling it wouldn't be particularly useful in anything other than a "across the room" engagement, but it shoots.

- Oh, and Solar when I tried to exit that from the webpage that linked to, three popups for "boob enhancement" showed up. :lol:

wow, that's crazy.  Is there a registration / check process to buy these ?  If not, you could buy a bunch of these and flareguns and ammo, and survive the confiscation quite nicely.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 10, 2013, 02:17:16 PM
wow, that's crazy.  Is there a registration / check process to buy these ?  If not, you could buy a bunch of these and flareguns and ammo, and survive the confiscation quite nicely.

Yeah, these are classified as AOWs by the BATF, so they would know you have 'em.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 11, 2013, 02:55:22 PM
The ad seems to indicate that you receive a letter saying that using these will change a flaregun into a real gun.  But I didn't see where any tracking or registration paperwork / records will occur.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 11, 2013, 04:07:33 PM
The ad seems to indicate that you receive a letter saying that using these will change a flaregun into a real gun.  But I didn't see where any tracking or registration paperwork / records will occur.
Here is the BATF press release on flare inserts:http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: kramarat on January 11, 2013, 05:46:28 PM
I had a guy working for me at one time that was a former "special forces" type, in the Bulgarian military. There are a million ways to kill people without a gun. That includes property protection. Booby traps can be made pretty easily, that will kill an intruder before he gets close to the front door, or even the house. No guns required. :wink:
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 11, 2013, 08:52:00 PM
When I was 8 years old I made my first improvised weapon. (I was/ am a little strange...) I took a sliver of soup can and stuck it on a crude handle with flooring nails. It had about a 2" spike that was pretty damn sharp.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Solar on January 12, 2013, 07:08:30 AM

My dad was raised differently as well because his father lived in fear of fascists, so he taught my dad the skill of explosive making, I was making hydrogen gas at 6 and setting it off, which freaked out the neighbors.
Funny, it was a completely different mindset then, now the Govt has given anyone making this stuff, a potential terrorist label.
We live in an era of freakin pantywaists and milksops.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: kramarat on January 12, 2013, 08:33:55 AM
When I was 8 years old I made my first improvised weapon. (I was/ am a little strange...) I took a sliver of soup can and stuck it on a crude handle with flooring nails. It had about a 2" spike that was pretty damn sharp.

That's not strange.

My friends and I had a fascination with guns, knives, and anything that went BOOM, as far back as I can remember. :biggrin:

Still do. Lets face it, that stuff is fun.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 15, 2013, 07:01:07 AM
When I was 8 years old I made my first improvised weapon. (I was/ am a little strange...) I took a sliver of soup can and stuck it on a crude handle with flooring nails. It had about a 2" spike that was pretty damn sharp.
As they say.....mmmm OK......lol....
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: AndyJackson on January 15, 2013, 07:19:42 AM
Yeah, these are classified as AOWs by the BATF, so they would know you have 'em.

Here's the actual letter from DOJ / ATF.
 
http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf (http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf)

Seems to be saying that simply owning this device has nothing to do with firearms laws.  Though, when you put it into the flare gun, you have entered such territory.

They seem to be providing this letter with purchase of the item.

It seems to me that you could buy these things all day long with no firearms paperwork or legal concerns.  Only when you "create" a firearm by combining the sleeve and flare gun, at which time you are expected to comply / register / etc.

It seems that it would be a good doomsday / confiscation scenario to buy several of these, flare guns to match, and ammo to match.  Then keep all 3 in different containers.

If you get to the point in social disintegration where you need to put them all together, it's probably long past worrying about BATF and generic legal issues.
Title: Re: Gun Ban Workarounds
Post by: Murph on January 15, 2013, 01:00:22 PM
Here's the actual letter from DOJ / ATF.
 
http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf (http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf)

Seems to be saying that simply owning this device has nothing to do with firearms laws.  Though, when you put it into the flare gun, you have entered such territory.

They seem to be providing this letter with purchase of the item.

It seems to me that you could buy these things all day long with no firearms paperwork or legal concerns.  Only when you "create" a firearm by combining the sleeve and flare gun, at which time you are expected to comply / register / etc.

It seems that it would be a good doomsday / confiscation scenario to buy several of these, flare guns to match, and ammo to match.  Then keep all 3 in different containers.

If you get to the point in social disintegration where you need to put them all together, it's probably long past worrying about BATF and generic legal issues.
Yeah, I kind of overlooked that part of the deal.