Quote from: arpad on November 24, 2010, 05:53:44 PM
Yeah, yeah, I'm well aware of that along with the somewhat vague reasons given that are matched by unarguable certainty.

But didn't you ever wonder about the "why" of survivalism? Why's it so seemingly attractive when the reality's worse then all but a very few people can possibly imagine?

I hate to say it, but I think some tend to romanticize about it.
Myself, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime, but if it did, I would do just fine, though it won't be a stroll in the park.

But I always felt I was born 200 years too late.
I'd be quite happy with a bare bones lifestyle, assuming the rest of the population is dead. ;)

But with that said, I do see times getting a lot worse, but not to the point of riots or neighbors breaking into neighbors food stuffs.
Just people cutting back on the frivolities of life.

Washington State has had at least 20 damaging earthquakes during the past 125 years. Large earthquakes in 1946, 1949, and 1965.  I have been in all three.   We have annually 1,000 earthquakes occur in my state.  I was also within 60 miles of Mount St. Helens when it eruption in 1980.   So a disaster can happy any time.  So there is more then one reason "survivalism," I live within 5 hrs drive of 5 volcanos.  My state is not unique, each state has there own unique desaster problems.  But for the most part the States can not supply the needs for everyone when needed.  Understand some big city may be help first just like they do when there is a power problem.  The little person comes last.  Out of the way places and Rural areas just like power will come last.  The Columbus Day Storm of 1962, I gave power, water and fire wood for 3 week for 6 neighbors.  Yes they could have gone into the main part of town in a hotel at 250.00$ a night.  But then they would have lost all there food and who know what all.  So I have no problems being prepared for something that my not happen.   

Quote from: walkstall on November 24, 2010, 06:52:14 PM
Washington State has had at least 20 damaging earthquakes during the past 125 years. Large earthquakes in 1946, 1949, and 1965.  I have been in all three.   We have annually 1,000 earthquakes occur in my state.  I was also within 60 miles of Mount St. Helens when it eruption in 1980.   So a disaster can happy any time.  So there is more then one reason "survivalism," I live within 5 hrs drive of 5 volcanos.  My state is not unique, each state has there own unique desaster problems.  But for the most part the States can not supply the needs for everyone when needed.  Understand some big city may be help first just like they do when there is a power problem.  The little person comes last.  Out of the way places and Rural areas just like power will come last.  The Columbus Day Storm of 1962, I gave power, water and fire wood for 3 week for 6 neighbors.  Yes they could have gone into the main part of town in a hotel at 250.00$ a night.  But then they would have lost all there food and who know what all.  So I have no problems being prepared for something that my not happen.

But Walks, A volcano, or earthquake is nothing next to the collapse of civilization. :o ;) you know I kid....

My biggest worry over any other, is a forest fire, it is almost a given that I would lose everything.
There are just some things we can't prepare for.
Did I mention meteorite? ;D

But you're right, we can prepare for some things, and should, because no matter how much we like to think gov will help, there just isn't enough resources to go around when a natural disaster hits.

"Romanticize"?  That is a VERY strange way to characterize the sharing of preparation and survival information.

Nobody I know WANTS a disaster to happen.  Nobody I know WANTS the U.S. economy to tank.  Nobody I know WANTS a massive terrrorist attack.  Nobody I know WANTS a natural disaster. 

Those that ridicule and mock and criticize will be the FIRST ones to try to steal from and do harm to those of us who are prepared.  That will be the LAST mistake those people will make. 

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 24, 2010, 09:41:28 PM
"Romanticize"?  That is a VERY strange way to characterize the sharing of preparation and survival information.

Nobody I know WANTS a disaster to happen.  Nobody I know WANTS the U.S. economy to tank.  Nobody I know WANTS a massive terrrorist attack.  Nobody I know WANTS a natural disaster. 

Those that ridicule and mock and criticize will be the FIRST ones to try to steal from and do harm to those of us who are prepared.  That will be the LAST mistake those people will make.

More that 80% of my customer base is survivalist based, and a small percentage of them are looking forward to the what they perceive as the end.
They've done all the planning, stocked up with years of supplies, built traps and a home in the middle of nowhere.
Some are Kazinsky like, some are extremely quiet, and some are outright hostile.
But they think the World will be a better place when we start over.

And not one of them are willing to listen to reason, they are counting on the collapse, it's what they did all this hard work for.

Can you imagine the let down when you spend 40 years planning for something that you were certain would happen, only to get too old to live the lifestyle you planned so many years before?
I watched one old guy sell off everything he had, when his heart was giving out, he was bitter and disappointed, and now lives with a relative.

Yes, there are some that romanticize about shooting people trying to steal what they have, and when you talk to them, you see their eyes light up about it.

If it hadn't been for these people, I wouldn't have made it in business.
You'd be surprised, but most think I'm a survivalist, but I'm just a pack-rat that just can't seem to throw anything away.

Don't say a word ST! :D

Quote from: Solar on November 25, 2010, 07:00:31 AM


You'd be surprised, but most think I'm a survivalist, but I'm just a pack-rat that just can't seem to throw anything away.

Don't say a word ST! :D

Oh Pleeeaase....pack Rat is not the word for it....   Don't worry I'll keep trying.... ;D ;D 

Quote from: Solar on November 25, 2010, 07:00:31 AM
More that 80% of my customer base is survivalist based, and a small percentage of them are looking forward to the what they perceive as the end.
They've done all the planning, stocked up with years of supplies, built traps and a home in the middle of nowhere.
Some are Kazinsky like, some are extremely quiet, and some are outright hostile.
But they think the World will be a better place when we start over.

And not one of them are willing to listen to reason, they are counting on the collapse, it's what they did all this hard work for.

Can you imagine the let down when you spend 40 years planning for something that you were certain would happen, only to get too old to live the lifestyle you planned so many years before?
I watched one old guy sell off everything he had, when his heart was giving out, he was bitter and disappointed, and now lives with a relative.

Yes, there are some that romanticize about shooting people trying to steal what they have, and when you talk to them, you see their eyes light up about it.

If it hadn't been for these people, I wouldn't have made it in business.
You'd be surprised, but most think I'm a survivalist, but I'm just a pack-rat that just can't seem to throw anything away.

Don't say a word ST! :D

Unfortunately, it's a fact of life that there are radicals and extremists in every walk of life.  They make those of us who have common sense and boundaries look bad.

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 26, 2010, 04:47:28 AM
Unfortunately, it's a fact of life that there are radicals and extremists in every walk of life.  They make those of us who have common sense and boundaries look bad.

Yep AF there are. 

My planning is not because I am expecting the end of the world but because I know its going to start getting tougher to feed the "family"  and just pay for the day to day.  For that I want to be prepared.   8)

Quote from: Solars Toy on November 26, 2010, 06:34:07 AM
Yep AF there are. 

My planning is not because I am expecting the end of the world but because I know its going to start getting tougher to feed the "family"  and just pay for the day to day.  For that I want to be prepared.   8)

If I believed that the "end of the world" was coming, I wouldn't bother stockpiling food and preparing for life off the grid.  I would just wait for the "end" to happen.

I believe that very tough and dangerous times are coming, and we are preparing accordingly, so we can survive and emerge on "the other side".

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 26, 2010, 06:56:03 AM
If I believed that the "end of the world" was coming, I wouldn't bother stockpiling food and preparing for life off the grid.  I would just wait for the "end" to happen.

I believe that very tough and dangerous times are coming, and we are preparing accordingly, so we can survive and emerge on "the other side".

Probably should have phrased that better.  End of civilization... :)  Your right if it's the end of the world I hopefully won't be here...(God willing.) 8) 8)

Quote from: Solar on November 24, 2010, 06:22:10 PM
I hate to say it, but I think some tend to romanticize about it.
Myself, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime, but if it did, I would do just fine, though it won't be a stroll in the park.

But I always felt I was born 200 years too late.
I'd be quite happy with a bare bones lifestyle, assuming the rest of the population is dead. ;)

But with that said, I do see times getting a lot worse, but not to the point of riots or neighbors breaking into neighbors food stuffs.
Just people cutting back on the frivolities of life.

I've got enough mileage on me to remember what are now referred to by some as "the good, old days" and they weren't all that good. I kind of doubt that, unless you were pretty lucky, 200 years ago was better. So I see a trend but it's not pointing in the direction of "a time of tribulations". In fact, just the opposite.

Twenty-eight years ago we elected Ron Reagan, watched him can the PATCO strikers and then re-elected him in a landslide. I've watched the number of states with "shall issue" CCW go from seven to forty. More recently I've watched the first man to be elected to the presidency based on the color of his skin come to the slow realization that he's not going to escape being judged on the content of his character.

On the international stage I've watched the threat of international communism collapse, along with the Soviet Union, so shockingly quickly that it takes an effort of will to recall how real the threat once was. Now if I want to feel threatened by communism I have to fire up a first-person shooter.

With that out of the way, I don't see times getting a lot worse. Trouble is, the human race has spent most of our time in conditions so much worse then what we know I just wonder if the strengths we developed to deal with those sorts of times now have too little outlet. Human characteristics being what they are, we see what we want to see absent an effort of will to look at the realities.

200 years ago if you went boldly where no man had gone before the chances are that you wouldn't last more then a couple of years there being all sorts of awfully mundane ways to end up being a meal for the coyotes. Trip and break your knee cap? Have an abscess flare up? Drink water from a stream some miles downstream from a human habitation? Any one of those might easily have killed you 200 years ago and the list is hardly started.

I'm not arguing against preparing for unpleasant possibilities. Far from it. I go to sleep with a loaded firearm within arm's reach, there's a couple of weeks worth of eating stowed away in the basement and my spare tire's just been checked. But preparing for unpleasant possibilities is a form of insurance and you try to insure against reasonable risks. Survivalism strikes me as much more of an indulgence of people who've never known anything but, relative to most of the human race's experience through most of history, plenty.

Quote from: arpad on November 26, 2010, 08:03:53 AM
I've got enough mileage on me to remember what are now referred to by some as "the good, old days" and they weren't all that good. I kind of doubt that, unless you were pretty lucky, 200 years ago was better. So I see a trend but it's not pointing in the direction of "a time of tribulations". In fact, just the opposite.

I agree, I don't see dire circumstances either, just a rough road ahead.

QuoteTwenty-eight years ago we elected Ron Reagan, watched him can the PATCO strikers and then re-elected him in a landslide. I've watched the number of states with "shall issue" CCW go from seven to forty. More recently I've watched the first man to be elected to the presidency based on the color of his skin come to the slow realization that he's not going to escape being judged on the content of his character.

On the international stage I've watched the threat of international communism collapse, along with the Soviet Union, so shockingly quickly that it takes an effort of will to recall how real the threat once was. Now if I want to feel threatened by communism I have to fire up a first-person shooter.

Communism is far from dead, it, like all diseases morphs to survive.
I'm not talking about NK style of communism, but that of China and Russia, they will do what is necessary to hold on to power, and when the time is right, return to their old ways.

QuoteWith that out of the way, I don't see times getting a lot worse. Trouble is, the human race has spent most of our time in conditions so much worse then what we know I just wonder if the strengths we developed to deal with those sorts of times now have too little outlet. Human characteristics being what they are, we see what we want to see absent an effort of will to look at the realities.

When I speak of times getting worse, I'm talking about people having to cut back on, as I stated "frivolities" of life, but this is a good thing, it is a cleansing so to speak, it will only make the Country stronger.
But I don't see it lasting more than about 3 years, from which will emerge a population of people no longer taking for granted what we have.
Yes, I see better days after the fact, it's human nature.

Quote200 years ago if you went boldly where no man had gone before the chances are that you wouldn't last more then a couple of years there being all sorts of awfully mundane ways to end up being a meal for the coyotes. Trip and break your knee cap? Have an abscess flare up? Drink water from a stream some miles downstream from a human habitation? Any one of those might easily have killed you 200 years ago and the list is hardly started.

Yet man still managed to survive and have off spring, guess they weren't all that bad?

QuoteI'm not arguing against preparing for unpleasant possibilities. Far from it. I go to sleep with a loaded firearm within arm's reach, there's a couple of weeks worth of eating stowed away in the basement and my spare tire's just been checked. But preparing for unpleasant possibilities is a form of insurance and you try to insure against reasonable risks. Survivalism strikes me as much more of an indulgence of people who've never known anything but, relative to most of the human race's experience through most of history, plenty.

Of course not, it's like stocking up on food for the week, or going to the store daily, most prefer to have food at home, it merely makes life easier throughout the week.

The point I've been trying to make is, things are going to get tougher, not because things aren't available, but because they are going to get very expensive.
Thats why we are stocking up now, while prices are still relatively affordable, like Coffee, something that has to be imported.

But I still don't see riots or pillaging in the streets, just more complaining, which will keep the Dims out of power.

Quote from: arpad on November 26, 2010, 08:03:53 AM
I've got enough mileage on me to remember what are now referred to by some as "the good, old days" and they weren't all that good. I kind of doubt that, unless you were pretty lucky, 200 years ago was better. So I see a trend but it's not pointing in the direction of "a time of tribulations". In fact, just the opposite.

Twenty-eight years ago we elected Ron Reagan, watched him can the PATCO strikers and then re-elected him in a landslide. I've watched the number of states with "shall issue" CCW go from seven to forty. More recently I've watched the first man to be elected to the presidency based on the color of his skin come to the slow realization that he's not going to escape being judged on the content of his character.

On the international stage I've watched the threat of international communism collapse, along with the Soviet Union, so shockingly quickly that it takes an effort of will to recall how real the threat once was. Now if I want to feel threatened by communism I have to fire up a first-person shooter.

With that out of the way, I don't see times getting a lot worse. Trouble is, the human race has spent most of our time in conditions so much worse then what we know I just wonder if the strengths we developed to deal with those sorts of times now have too little outlet. Human characteristics being what they are, we see what we want to see absent an effort of will to look at the realities.

200 years ago if you went boldly where no man had gone before the chances are that you wouldn't last more then a couple of years there being all sorts of awfully mundane ways to end up being a meal for the coyotes. Trip and break your knee cap? Have an abscess flare up? Drink water from a stream some miles downstream from a human habitation? Any one of those might easily have killed you 200 years ago and the list is hardly started.

I'm not arguing against preparing for unpleasant possibilities. Far from it. I go to sleep with a loaded firearm within arm's reach, there's a couple of weeks worth of eating stowed away in the basement and my spare tire's just been checked. But preparing for unpleasant possibilities is a form of insurance and you try to insure against reasonable risks. Survivalism strikes me as much more of an indulgence of people who've never known anything but, relative to most of the human race's experience through most of history, plenty.

So let's Say Yellowstone Blows will you be set.   Humanity will survive, but civilization will be knocked on it's ass big time for sometime.  I for one say when it blows, not if it blows.  It will make Mount St. Helens look like a small fart.  LOL        VolcanoCams     This time a year it may be blocked by fog or cloud cover.

Quote from: walkstall on November 26, 2010, 08:40:07 AM

So let's Say Yellowstone Blows will you be set.   Humanity will survive, but civilization will be knocked on it's ass big time for sometime.  I for one say when it blows, not if it blows.  It will make Mount St. Helens look like a small fart.  LOL        VolcanoCams     This time a year it may be blocked by fog or cloud cover.

C'mon now, walkstall.  This is the United States Of America.  We can handle ANYTHING.  Our government is prepared to handle any and all crises.  Just sit back and relax.  Everybody LOVES us. 

Terrorists?  Just a bunch of disorganized goofballs.  They can't do anything right.  Just that one time. 

Multi-trillion dollar debt?  No big deal, we'll just print more money, and borrow more from our enemies.

Corruption and financial fraud and failed banks?  Who cares.  Just keep your money in a mason jar.

Marxists and communists infiltrating the highest areas of our state and federal governments?  No problem, we'll eventually vote them all out.

Looming hyperinflation and hyperunemployment and hyper-interest rates?  No big deal. It's happened before.

Everything is fine, and it will always be that way.

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on November 26, 2010, 08:59:44 AM
C'mon now, walkstall.  This is the United States Of America.  We can handle ANYTHING.  Our government is prepared to handle any and all crises.  Just sit back and relax.  Everybody LOVES us. 

Terrorists?  Just a bunch of disorganized goofballs.  They can't do anything right.  Just that one time. 

Multi-trillion dollar debt?  No big deal, we'll just print more money, and borrow more from our enemies.

Corruption and financial fraud and failed banks?  Who cares.  Just keep your money in a mason jar.

Marxists and communists infiltrating the highest areas of our state and federal governments?  No problem, we'll eventually vote them all out.

Looming hyperinflation and hyperunemployment and hyper-interest rates?  No big deal. It's happened before.

Everything is fine, and it will always be that way.

Wow!! I feel so much better now.  I may sleep 4hrs and 10 min now a night not just 4hrs.  LOL

When your in government hands, it like being with All State.  ::)