Author Topic: Camping gear suggestions  (Read 2242 times)

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Re: First Aid Kit suggestions.
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2017, 08:58:16 AM »
When I used to camp, I carried two medium stainless steel Revere ware pans, light and easy to clean with wet gravel.
Nowadays I have a full blown kitchen down at the confluence of my two creeks. Oh sure, we still cook over the campfire, but when you've got a bunch of families trying to feed over one small fire, that just don't cut it, too many bad feelings start when people get too hungry and start pissing about.
This year I have a ton of clean up to do down there, both creeks jumped their banks and washed right through camp. :ohmy:

I cleaned them with SAND, wet or dry, and wipe off the dust.    We did the soap-the-bottom of Aluminum pan stuff for years, till I said this is a waste of soap, and I hate getting that in my eggs in the morning.  Sand works just as good.

A Stainless 7" or 10" fry pan, and similar size pot (preferably 7"), one lid that fits both.   The fry pan needs to have a thick bottom so it doesn't warp from heat, the pot is fine being thin, it's usually full of a soup or something liguid - and used for mixing everything.
Stainless Flipper, serving/mixing spoon & tongs.  If it's an open fire.... the handles gotta extend, or be long enough to keep from burning all the hair off your arm.  I hate cooking over a stove, it's open fire or cold food.

A collapsible water container.

A BIG part of what we pack, depended on what kind of pack, if it was soft canvas, rigid tools would tear up the bags, if it were frame packs, long handles were easy, the packs were easy to haul around, (portage between lakes), but a bitch to pack LOW into a canoe.  The center of gravity would end up so high, the canoe would rock while paddling, wasting energy & speed.  I gotta hand it to the guy who brought a couple of poles and pre-sewn sheet for a sail, the few times they used it... slowly sailing past us while we paddled like Charlton Heston in Ben Hur...  get the idea?  We also used the poles for cooking over the fire, suspending the big pot, using the open end as an extended handle on the fry pan, making a water heater (dripping the water through the pipe into a container for a hot shower), etc.,... when you got time, chillin' in a campsite, all kinds of ideas come to mind - stuff that'd never happen in the I-phone generation.

Pity the people who brought folk guitars, and musical instruments bigger than a plastic Recorder/Flute, they usually were ruined.  ended up in the lake, rain or got crushed by some twist of fate.  No doubt, an Accordion does not belong on a 2 week canoe trip.

2 50-100' lengths of paracord, I hate to cut the stuff, but always wind up cutting a single length, seldom ever cut it if I had 2 lengths.  One would end up as part of a shelter, holding up a water jug with the free end, the other rope, pulling food up into a tree.

Dehydrated food absolutely SUCKS!!!   I ate so much of that crap back in the '70s & '80s - yes they had deyrdrated Ice Cream and all the novelty stuff back then...   The ONLY stuff that had the texture and taste of -normal- food was the soup mixes, because it was so heavily seasoned.   Noodles with chicken or beef seasoning stuff - you'd do just as well with Ramen noodles.   By the 3rd day, the bread, eggs and bacon were finished off... it was pancakes and re-hydrated hash brown potatoes for breakfast, Tang and some dried apple slices.  Constipation set in, a day or two later, if you didn't have plenty of raisins & prunes.

If I learned anything from decades of camping, it's plan a menu, get everyone to agree on it, and add an extra day for each week - if you're portaging canoes, and the fish aren't biting, berries aren't in season - extra food is a good idea.
We would lay everything out on the floor, go over everything a couple of times, adding and taking away stuff - load it into packs and see if we could actually pick-it-up.   Then everything goes into individual ziplock bags for each meal, breaking down stuff like pancake mix & elbow macaroni, for each meal into individual bags.  Just one good downpour, canoeing across a lake, and everything not in a ziplock bag is soaked.   bags inside of bigger bags - garbage bags lining the packs, then cardboard to protect the contents, and another garbage bag to line that, then the meals, put in reverse order into the pack, vertical cardboard dividers for breakfast, lunch, diner... etc,.  after several years of totally screwing up these 2 week canoe trips, we finally the food right....   and we fished all-the-time, 'cause that dehydrated stuff started looking like bear scat in no time...   

A Jitter Bug was the only lure I never, ever lost... Mepps, DareDevils, diving Minnow lures - left them all behind, snagged on some tree or rocks in the northwoods lakes.  There is nothing like fishing in the moonlight, lake like a sheet of glass, slowly & stealthly paddling across the lake, Jitter Bug in tow...  and SPLASH!  A huge Pike slams into that thing, it makes so much noise even the campsite, several hundreds of yards aways... "Whatcha got there..?" echos across the water.    "Breakfast, between the bones... a Northern.."   a moment of silence, then rather loudly from the shore - "throw it back, we want Perch or Blue Gills!"
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

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Re: First Aid Kit suggestions.
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2017, 10:26:25 AM »
I cleaned them with SAND, wet or dry, and wipe off the dust.    We did the soap-the-bottom of Aluminum pan stuff for years, till I said this is a waste of soap, and I hate getting that in my eggs in the morning.  Sand works just as good.

A Stainless 7" or 10" fry pan, and similar size pot (preferably 7"), one lid that fits both.   The fry pan needs to have a thick bottom so it doesn't warp from heat, the pot is fine being thin, it's usually full of a soup or something liguid - and used for mixing everything.
Stainless Flipper, serving/mixing spoon & tongs.  If it's an open fire.... the handles gotta extend, or be long enough to keep from burning all the hair off your arm.  I hate cooking over a stove, it's open fire or cold food.

A collapsible water container.

A BIG part of what we pack, depended on what kind of pack, if it was soft canvas, rigid tools would tear up the bags, if it were frame packs, long handles were easy, the packs were easy to haul around, (portage between lakes), but a bitch to pack LOW into a canoe.  The center of gravity would end up so high, the canoe would rock while paddling, wasting energy & speed.  I gotta hand it to the guy who brought a couple of poles and pre-sewn sheet for a sail, the few times they used it... slowly sailing past us while we paddled like Charlton Heston in Ben Hur...  get the idea?  We also used the poles for cooking over the fire, suspending the big pot, using the open end as an extended handle on the fry pan, making a water heater (dripping the water through the pipe into a container for a hot shower), etc.,... when you got time, chillin' in a campsite, all kinds of ideas come to mind - stuff that'd never happen in the I-phone generation.

Pity the people who brought folk guitars, and musical instruments bigger than a plastic Recorder/Flute, they usually were ruined.  ended up in the lake, rain or got crushed by some twist of fate.  No doubt, an Accordion does not belong on a 2 week canoe trip.

2 50-100' lengths of paracord, I hate to cut the stuff, but always wind up cutting a single length, seldom ever cut it if I had 2 lengths.  One would end up as part of a shelter, holding up a water jug with the free end, the other rope, pulling food up into a tree.

Dehydrated food absolutely SUCKS!!!   I ate so much of that crap back in the '70s & '80s - yes they had deyrdrated Ice Cream and all the novelty stuff back then...   The ONLY stuff that had the texture and taste of -normal- food was the soup mixes, because it was so heavily seasoned.   Noodles with chicken or beef seasoning stuff - you'd do just as well with Ramen noodles.   By the 3rd day, the bread, eggs and bacon were finished off... it was pancakes and re-hydrated hash brown potatoes for breakfast, Tang and some dried apple slices.  Constipation set in, a day or two later, if you didn't have plenty of raisins & prunes.

If I learned anything from decades of camping, it's plan a menu, get everyone to agree on it, and add an extra day for each week - if you're portaging canoes, and the fish aren't biting, berries aren't in season - extra food is a good idea.
We would lay everything out on the floor, go over everything a couple of times, adding and taking away stuff - load it into packs and see if we could actually pick-it-up.   Then everything goes into individual ziplock bags for each meal, breaking down stuff like pancake mix & elbow macaroni, for each meal into individual bags.  Just one good downpour, canoeing across a lake, and everything not in a ziplock bag is soaked.   bags inside of bigger bags - garbage bags lining the packs, then cardboard to protect the contents, and another garbage bag to line that, then the meals, put in reverse order into the pack, vertical cardboard dividers for breakfast, lunch, diner... etc,.  after several years of totally screwing up these 2 week canoe trips, we finally the food right....   and we fished all-the-time, 'cause that dehydrated stuff started looking like bear scat in no time...   

A Jitter Bug was the only lure I never, ever lost... Mepps, DareDevils, diving Minnow lures - left them all behind, snagged on some tree or rocks in the northwoods lakes.  There is nothing like fishing in the moonlight, lake like a sheet of glass, slowly & stealthly paddling across the lake, Jitter Bug in tow...  and SPLASH!  A huge Pike slams into that thing, it makes so much noise even the campsite, several hundreds of yards aways... "Whatcha got there..?" echos across the water.    "Breakfast, between the bones... a Northern.."   a moment of silence, then rather loudly from the shore - "throw it back, we want Perch or Blue Gills!"
I never pack water, leave the lions share in the truck, (assuming I wasn't hitting the desert that is,) but always camped near a stream.
But I must confess, here in the Sierra, every mountain, hill, ravine has a creek or spring, so you're always close to water, assuming we aren't nearing the end of one of our drought cycles.
So this always freed us up from packing unnecessary stuff like water bags, bottles etc, oh, and I always pack a water purifier, be it one man straw type single usage, or a Berkey unit for an entire crowd, never drink from an open water source, only an Artesian coming from the rocks. I've caught giardia before, it was pure Hell, like a bad flu for 6 solid weeks.

You're absolutely correct about water trips, it's like the old saying, "There's two types of bikers, the one that went down, and the one that's going to go down".
It's the nature of the beast, I used to do river excursions decades back, if it wasn't in a water tight bag, packed in a waterproof duffel and sealed in an oversized cooler, it's crushed and definitely wet.
Murphy's Law applies well to leisurely water trips, the calmer the water, the more likely someone is to do something stupid.
Drop their sunglasses and over react trying to catch them, boat tips, all get wet. Paddle slips in the water, someone reaches, and proclaims "I Got It"!!! and everyone gets wet. :rolleyes:
Divert to miss a small limb, boat bumps tree just under the surface, everyone overreacts, everyone gets wet.
I know You know what I'm talking about. :biggrin:

As to food, I always make a huge batch of stew for two days full meals, freeze half and the rest sealed in seal a meal bags for consumption the first day, the next day the rest is thawed out for all day meals. Oh, and all medical supplies are stored in seal a meal bags as well, some vacuum sealed, others just to keep dry, vacuuming tends to crush stuff. This keeps it free from contamination of any kind.

After the stew runs out we crack open the freeze dried meals, and after two days of nothing but beef stew, that chicken and rice is pretty and damned welcome.
I don't know what freeze dried meals you've tried, but don't discount them so readily, Hell, in a pinch, I bought a two day supply at Walmart, and to my shock, some were better than if we'd stopped at a cafe.
Do a search for taste testing camp freeze dried meals, I guarantee you'll change your mind once you try them. Granted, the best ones cost twice the dime, but hey, you're out to relax, so enjoy your food even if it costs a bit more.

Oh, and I've been eating freeze dried food every day for the last five years, and I guarantee you, if you were to taste it, you wouldn't know it was more than a decade old. All the milk I drink is freeze dried nonfat, I have people taste it all the time, and then tell them it was freeze dried, then they want the address of where I got it.
Tell ya, it really beats packing all that heavy food that runs the risk of spoiling, and the last thing anyone wants miles from nowhere is a case of food poisoning.

It could be a matter of taste, but when all is said and done, you aren't packing out cans and crap.
All packages were used to start the campfire, Seal a Meal bags included, plastic is nothing more than fossil fuel concentrated. Libs and Millennial hate when I say burn your plastic. :laugh:
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Re: Camping gear suggestions
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2017, 08:07:09 AM »
last night, I was playing around with this stuff...

First Aid Only 5-6600 Stretch Gauze Bandage, 4-Yard Stretched Length x 2-Inch Width
amazon.com/gp/product/B00E8JTW8U
(2" digit wrap - fingers, toes, wrists wrapping)

Dukal Conforming Stretch Gauze 12-Rolls 4-Inchx4.1yds
amazon.com/gp/product/B01LBC300W
(4" ankles, knees, elbows, arms, legs)

It has a little bit of self-cling, very soft and stretchy - so I did a one-handed wrist wrap (one hand wraps the other), it was easy enough, looked good (weak hand wrapping the strong hand), so, I thought I'd mention how well it worked.
The length is good for holding a gauze pad in place, rolls are very light and easily compacted smaller for packing.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Hoofer

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Re: First Aid Kit suggestions.
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2017, 09:21:35 AM »
Murphy's Law applies well to leisurely water trips, the calmer the water, the more likely someone is to do something stupid.
Drop their sunglasses and over react trying to catch them, boat tips, all get wet. Paddle slips in the water, someone reaches, and proclaims "I Got It"!!! and everyone gets wet. :rolleyes:
Divert to miss a small limb, boat bumps tree just under the surface, everyone overreacts, everyone gets wet.
I know You know what I'm talking about. :biggrin:

Probably don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times, some tired Canoeist stood up in the Bow with a camera, turned around to "take a picture" - and either fell out of the canoe, or took the canoe over with HER.   Yes, HER... everytime it was a girl.   I'd pack stuff as low as possible into the canoe to keep the center of gravity as low as possible - just because some in my Bow was bound to capsize getting in, getting out or falling out.   When they start it moving, I'd just flatten out as low as I could, in a defensive posture - and sometimes, actually save the canoe's contents from being spilled.

Quote
I don't know what freeze dried meals you've tried, but don't discount them so readily, Hell, in a pinch, I bought a two day supply at Walmart, and to my shock, some were better than if we'd stopped at a cafe.
Do a search for taste testing camp freeze dried meals, I guarantee you'll change your mind once you try them. Granted, the best ones cost twice the dime, but hey, you're out to relax, so enjoy your food even if it costs a bit more.

Oh, and I've been eating freeze dried food every day for the last five years, and I guarantee you, if you were to taste it, you wouldn't know it was more than a decade old. All the milk I drink is freeze dried nonfat, I have people taste it all the time, and then tell them it was freeze dried, then they want the address of where I got it.
Tell ya, it really beats packing all that heavy food that runs the risk of spoiling, and the last thing anyone wants miles from nowhere is a case of food poisoning.

QORP = Gross Objects of Repulsive Proportions, we called it.
Chicken-ala-barf, Beef-stroke-me-off.

Dehydrated food is a necessity for a canoe trip more than a couple of days - and since I'm a "Bacon & Eggs Breakfast" guy, after 3 days - I'd rather eat fresh fish.

We keep several MREs on our boat, tucked away in an out-of-the-way compartment for emergencies.   Occasionally, we'll try something...   and remind ourselves, we need to remember to bring food with an expiration date in this decade.

I think we mentioned it in another thread, there is only one dehydrated potato that makes the "cut", called "True".   it's not flakes, but powder & fluffs up like the flake stuff.

Easy and tastes pretty darn good.

Of course we pack the other stuff, no matter how long it takes to cook - you got plenty of time around the fire, so:
Rice, Barley, Elbow Macaroni, freeze dried vegetables (carrots, beets, onion), and assorted seasoning (in packets, if we can find them).

Another word on packing, the seasoning stuff always was easily reached, in an outside pocket, usually along with First Aid supplies.   I love individual seasoning packets, like the size that comes with Ramen noodles, but usually resorted to salt & pepper shakers, again in a ziplock bag.  Everything goes into ziplock bags, not the ultra-heavy duty ones, just the cheap ones, because the actual contents will be in a 2nd or 3rd bag - even with leaks, you still have time to pull stuff out.


Solar, did you ever carry a shovel, on a canoe or camping trip?    Or how about a machete or huge knife?   I can't remember ever using one (unless someone else brought one), I just used my feet to mound up dirt, or rocks for a fire pit - and for trenching the tent, it was always self supporting and on high ground or a rock.

We always had a couple of folding saws (the blades DO break) usually a small and a large one, and a well made, proven hatchet (never an long-handled ax).  We never carried the newer ultra-camping gear, it actually took up too much room, and it FAILED to deliver satisfactory results, too often!   

Ever seen a nylon tent burn up from one of those mini-stoves?   :scared:  Poof!  you're now sleeping under the stars for thee rest of the trip.   Rain-proof and Fire-proof ... sure, thing, for the first trip, the "proof" stuff washes and wears off.

The ONLY case where we're bring a gas powered lantern, Coleman or the better one, Biytelyt, was when we stayed at a campsite for the duration... usually an Island, only accessible by boat.   Fishing in the middle of the night, and seeing that lantern glowing across the lake like a mini-lighthouse... when the fog starts rolling in, we'd be sure to keep that thing in sight.  What I really, really like about Britelyt lanterns - they burn any liquid and are easy to repair....  we got a couple of them, they are RUGGED.  (and a lifetime investment)   When we lost power for a week, we'd open the windows and run these lanterns for light... brighter than our regular lights...  They are -not- your typical walmart junk - ours are fueled and ready-to-go for emergencies, in the box we shoved inside the bag.
 
http://www.britelyt.com/

For fuel, we'd always mix Oil of Citronella to keep bugs and animals away.  It would make the lanterns SMOKE a little, the smell wasn't overwhelming, and the Britelyt lanterns burned it easily.  We mix it gas, diesel, lantern fuel, parafin... those lanterns were nothing to mess with when they got going - they get HOT.   I found a PetroMax at a garage sale, from the 40's or 1950s, once I got the mantle replaced & found some information on it, I knew I found a gem.  The big shade also keeps the driving rain off the glass for the most part - which really sucks if any lantern globe breaks early on a long trip.

Our night fishing boat is rigged with two aluminum arms, for 2 lanterns, extending off the sides of the stern, perfect for attracting fish, and keeping the bugs at bay... but that's another thread.

I've always been a believer in 2 or 3 man, self-supporting tents, since bigger tents are hard to find adequate ground to set up.  we'd pitch the tent, without anchors, stakes, ropes, and if the ground had a buried rock, log or bees nest - we'd just pick up the tent by the ridge pole and move it.  a 5-6 man tent is really meant for those Folk Guitar kinda people, who *cannot* exist without a flashlight & bandanna.


Adjusted jpg size.
walks
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:22:20 PM by walkstall »
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Online Solar

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Re: First Aid Kit suggestions.
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 02:30:00 PM »
Probably don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times, some tired Canoeist stood up in the Bow with a camera, turned around to "take a picture" - and either fell out of the canoe, or took the canoe over with HER.   Yes, HER... everytime it was a girl.   I'd pack stuff as low as possible into the canoe to keep the center of gravity as low as possible - just because some in my Bow was bound to capsize getting in, getting out or falling out.   When they start it moving, I'd just flatten out as low as I could, in a defensive posture - and sometimes, actually save the canoe's contents from being spilled.

QORP = Gross Objects of Repulsive Proportions, we called it.
Chicken-ala-barf, Beef-stroke-me-off.

Dehydrated food is a necessity for a canoe trip more than a couple of days - and since I'm a "Bacon & Eggs Breakfast" guy, after 3 days - I'd rather eat fresh fish.

We keep several MREs on our boat, tucked away in an out-of-the-way compartment for emergencies.   Occasionally, we'll try something...   and remind ourselves, we need to remember to bring food with an expiration date in this decade.
I gave up on canoes and went to Kayaks, mostly because of being limited to open bodies of water, while a Kayak allowed us to hit white water for the more remote locations "Down Stream", that is.

Quote
I think we mentioned it in another thread, there is only one dehydrated potato that makes the "cut", called "True".   it's not flakes, but powder & fluffs up like the flake stuff.

Easy and tastes pretty darn good.

Of course we pack the other stuff, no matter how long it takes to cook - you got plenty of time around the fire, so:
Rice, Barley, Elbow Macaroni, freeze dried vegetables (carrots, beets, onion), and assorted seasoning (in packets, if we can find them).

Another word on packing, the seasoning stuff always was easily reached, in an outside pocket, usually along with First Aid supplies.   I love individual seasoning packets, like the size that comes with Ramen noodles, but usually resorted to salt & pepper shakers, again in a ziplock bag.  Everything goes into ziplock bags, not the ultra-heavy duty ones, just the cheap ones, because the actual contents will be in a 2nd or 3rd bag - even with leaks, you still have time to pull stuff out.


Solar, did you ever carry a shovel, on a canoe or camping trip?    Or how about a machete or huge knife?   I can't remember ever using one (unless someone else brought one), I just used my feet to mound up dirt, or rocks for a fire pit - and for trenching the tent, it was always self supporting and on high ground or a rock.
I'm with you, never found use for garden tools, but I always packed my 19th century Bowie knife, best blade I ever owned.

Quote
We always had a couple of folding saws (the blades DO break) usually a small and a large one, and a well made, proven hatchet (never an long-handled ax).  We never carried the newer ultra-camping gear, it actually took up too much room, and it FAILED to deliver satisfactory results, too often!   

Ever seen a nylon tent burn up from one of those mini-stoves?   :scared:  Poof!  you're now sleeping under the stars for thee rest of the trip.   Rain-proof and Fire-proof ... sure, thing, for the first trip, the "proof" stuff washes and wears off.
Oh yeah, I did carry one of those string saws, about 16 inches long, cut quite well, or could double as a Garrote.

Quote
The ONLY case where we're bring a gas powered lantern, Coleman or the better one, Biytelyt, was when we stayed at a campsite for the duration... usually an Island, only accessible by boat.   Fishing in the middle of the night, and seeing that lantern glowing across the lake like a mini-lighthouse... when the fog starts rolling in, we'd be sure to keep that thing in sight.  What I really, really like about Britelyt lanterns - they burn any liquid and are easy to repair....  we got a couple of them, they are RUGGED.  (and a lifetime investment)   When we lost power for a week, we'd open the windows and run these lanterns for light... brighter than our regular lights...  They are -not- your typical walmart junk - ours are fueled and ready-to-go for emergencies, in the box we shoved inside the bag.
 
http://www.britelyt.com/

For fuel, we'd always mix Oil of Citronella to keep bugs and animals away.  It would make the lanterns SMOKE a little, the smell wasn't overwhelming, and the Britelyt lanterns burned it easily.  We mix it gas, diesel, lantern fuel, parafin... those lanterns were nothing to mess with when they got going - they get HOT.   I found a PetroMax at a garage sale, from the 40's or 1950s, once I got the mantle replaced & found some information on it, I knew I found a gem.  The big shade also keeps the driving rain off the glass for the most part - which really sucks if any lantern globe breaks early on a long trip.

Our night fishing boat is rigged with two aluminum arms, for 2 lanterns, extending off the sides of the stern, perfect for attracting fish, and keeping the bugs at bay... but that's another thread.

I've always been a believer in 2 or 3 man, self-supporting tents, since bigger tents are hard to find adequate ground to set up.  we'd pitch the tent, without anchors, stakes, ropes, and if the ground had a buried rock, log or bees nest - we'd just pick up the tent by the ridge pole and move it.  a 5-6 man tent is really meant for those Folk Guitar kinda people, who *cannot* exist without a flashlight & bandanna.
Agree, though I generally as a rule only used them for heat, or hanging high outside to draw bugs off till the fire was roaring.
My biggest bitch was the mantels breaking. I still have six of the radium infused mantels, claim they burned brighter. Could have been hype though.

I now have a survival light Kree light, like having a piece of the sun in your pocket for standby use since batteries only hold an hour charge, otherwise, a head mounted light is all I need.



Adjusted jpg size.
walks
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:23:54 PM by walkstall »
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Re: Camping gear suggestions
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2017, 01:25:46 PM »
This is a darn good oil lantern for minimal use.   Kmart had them for awhile, about $10.


We measured it for a chimney, and found a guy in New Mexico who had them, and added chimneys to see if it would improve the burn & light output - it did... slightly.  Using Ultra-Pure Paraffin/oil, we got over 60 hours of a low burn for a cup of oil.  Low burn is what I would call enough light to see, a small flame - enough to see your way around a room without any additional light (not enough to read by without straining).

Like any oil or gas lantern or stove, they emit noxious fumes - which can kill you if you don't ventilate the area.  This little thing can just stink the place up, scented oils - MEH... no thanks for me.

We keep some oil in these so they're ready-to-go when the power goes out, if we need them.  Like any lantern, the globes can and do break, glass is glass, and we've managed to break even the heavy stuff!

I would not take these camping, the ring on top looks convenient and tempting as a hanging point - which is fine, until the little bugger heats up - you're not moving it!
On the other hand, it can be picked up by the metal bars while burning, just be careful.



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walks
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:11:09 PM by walkstall »
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

 

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