Author Topic: Battle rifle or assault rifle?  (Read 925 times)

Offline Murph

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Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« on: February 08, 2013, 10:58:28 AM »
I'm wondering what you guys think is a better option. By battle rifle I mean a full size, full power semi (FAL, M1a, AR-10); and by assault rifle I mean a mid power, compact semi. (AK, AR-15)



Offline rich_t

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 02:40:31 PM »
I'm wondering what you guys think is a better option. By battle rifle I mean a full size, full power semi (FAL, M1a, AR-10); and by assault rifle I mean a mid power, compact semi. (AK, AR-15)

What do you plan on using it for?

Offline Eyesabide

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2013, 05:12:31 PM »
Best as I can tell, "Assault Rifle" is just a scary word media uses to frighten people.

If full automatic is an assault rifle, those are generally not available to the public without a "Class three license".

The second amendment allows the people to be armed  at least equal to the police and military forces to defend themselves from the government. Since there is definition of a "Main Battle Rifle", does that definition apply to what is legal for the population to arm themselves with?

I do not see how folding stocks or pistol grips  help in an assault, and it looks like shotguns come with pistol grips. it is all very confusing.

Why do police cars almost always arrive in pairs? Because every officer knows that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Offline Murph

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2013, 06:59:16 PM »
What do you plan on using it for?

Right now I'm living in a suburban area with about 150yds between houses fairly wooded and littered with rocks and stone walls. Mostly just want a decent SHTF insurance policy. Right now I have a Mossberg 500.
Best as I can tell, "Assault Rifle" is just a scary word media uses to frighten people.

If full automatic is an assault rifle, those are generally not available to the public without a "Class three license".

The second amendment allows the people to be armed  at least equal to the police and military forces to defend themselves from the government. Since there is definition of a "Main Battle Rifle", does that definition apply to what is legal for the population to arm themselves with?

I do not see how folding stocks or pistol grips  help in an assault, and it looks like shotguns come with pistol grips. it is all very confusing.


"Assault rifle" I think came into existence with the AR-15/M16 denoting its suitability for assault operation over the heavier and more powerful M14, which is now considered a battle rifle. Really my definition of typically when I say "assault rifle" I am referring to a classIII weapon, bur in this instance its just more convenient.

Offline Eyesabide

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 06:01:51 AM »
Actually, I hope people who actually know what they are talking about chime in here, because my guns are not my thing. Just trying to learn something here.

Murph, as it seems to be, Assault rifles are the 5.56 NATO round or like it, and the Battle rifles are the 7.62 round or like that. For this thread anyway.

If one is under siege in the suburbs by anybody, looters or organized well armed teams, killing them is better than wounding them. It seems the larger round would be more effective.

Why do police cars almost always arrive in pairs? Because every officer knows that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Online Solar

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 08:19:29 AM »
Actually, I hope people who actually know what they are talking about chime in here, because my guns are not my thing. Just trying to learn something here.

Murph, as it seems to be, Assault rifles are the 5.56 NATO round or like it, and the Battle rifles are the 7.62 round or like that. For this thread anyway.

If one is under siege in the suburbs by anybody, looters or organized well armed teams, killing them is better than wounding them. It seems the larger round would be more effective.
Depends on the group loyalty to each other. For example, Zombies would just step on the wounded and keep coming, while an actual Military unit would evac the wounded.
Which was the idea behind the M-16, take out one, you've immediately removed three from the battle field, it take two to carry one in most cases.

People tend to forget there are much better weapons that trading rounds and wasting precious ammo, Molotov cocktails are a cheap and effective weapon against an invader, a field of dummy trip wires strung around will slow all invaders, you only need one to be real, or just make a bang, they will stop in their tracks.

But to think one can take on a platoon of well trained and armed individuals is ridiculous, slow them as best as possible, then snipe away, but once they move on you position, you better have an exit, or well bunkered with a shotgun, because the end is near.

Personally I have no use for the AR, it's just too damned weak, give me an old bolt action British infield 303, accurate for a mile and they'll never know what hit, or where it came from.
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Offline Shooterman

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 09:25:14 AM »
Right now I'm living in a suburban area with about 150yds between houses fairly wooded and littered with rocks and stone walls. Mostly just want a decent SHTF insurance policy. Right now I have a Mossberg 500.
"Assault rifle" I think came into existence with the AR-15/M16 denoting its suitability for assault operation over the heavier and more powerful M14, which is now considered a battle rifle. Really my definition of typically when I say "assault rifle" I am referring to a classIII weapon, bur in this instance its just more convenient.

If you're in terrain where you need to reach out and touch someone, go with the M1A or AR10. From what you describe, stick with the AK. Ammo is readily available. ( it may be Russian or Lower Slobbovian, and cheap as hell, but it will work fine in the slap tolerances on the AK or SKS ) The tolerances are loose on the AKs and the SKS's, using the same basic round 7.62X39. You can bury one of those suckas in mud, clean of the excess and go shooting. The AR15s aren't that way.

When I bought my AR15, a match grade CMP Bushmaster, I was use to slopping tons of grease on the slide of a Garand. Do that with an AR and it will take a hammer to cycle the damned bolt carrier. The gas tube on the AR must be kept clean ( pipe cleaners are great ) else the tube plugs with carbon and it won't cycle. I love the AR , but for a SHTF, the AK or SKS would be my choice. Again, to reach out and touch someone, the AR10 or M1A.

You may even want to think about a good M1 Carbine.

I would dare say you are doing alright with the Mossberg.

Everyone has their own ideas; ask 100 people, get 100 answers.

Keep in mind, at present, they are all expensive as hell.
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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 10:23:30 AM »
If you're in terrain where you need to reach out and touch someone, go with the M1A or AR10. From what you describe, stick with the AK. Ammo is readily available. ( it may be Russian or Lower Slobbovian, and cheap as hell, but it will work fine in the slap tolerances on the AK or SKS ) The tolerances are loose on the AKs and the SKS's, using the same basic round 7.62X39. You can bury one of those suckas in mud, clean of the excess and go shooting. The AR15s aren't that way.

When I bought my AR15, a match grade CMP Bushmaster, I was use to slopping tons of grease on the slide of a Garand. Do that with an AR and it will take a hammer to cycle the damned bolt carrier. The gas tube on the AR must be kept clean ( pipe cleaners are great ) else the tube plugs with carbon and it won't cycle. I love the AR , but for a SHTF, the AK or SKS would be my choice. Again, to reach out and touch someone, the AR10 or M1A.

You may even want to think about a good M1 Carbine.

I would dare say you are doing alright with the Mossberg.

Everyone has their own ideas; ask 100 people, get 100 answers.

Keep in mind, at present, they are all expensive as hell.
So true, the AR hates sand and fine particles, but like you pointed out, my M-1 doesn't even notice debris, just pack it with grease and it doesn't stop, though I've had it go fully auto when it gets hot.
I put about 90 rounds through it to burn old ammo, after the third magazine it was so hot it fired about 7 rounds on it's own, stopped on a dud.
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Offline Shooterman

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 12:31:17 PM »
I have had slam fires but usually because a case was a tad long. When I was reloading for my Garand, I got in the habit of trimming just an extra 1/1000ths or so off the case and I never had a slam fire again. Generally good quality 30-06 doesn't create a problem. I was inventorying my ammo the other day and found 3 boxes of Lake City 30-06 and it always worked great in my Garands. Thinking of buying some surplus from the CMP. It's Greek but brass and boxer primed.
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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 01:09:32 PM »
I think that was possibly the issue with the M-1 rounds, my dad had loaded them extremely hot, not to mention they were his first attempt at reloading, so some were set deep while others were the opposite, he used a Lee loader brand, not the greatest loader on the mkt 50 years ago.
He said use them up quickly son, and I'll reload them, so I did like any kid, I blew through them real quick. :biggrin:
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Offline Shooterman

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 06:28:41 PM »
I think that was possibly the issue with the M-1 rounds, my dad had loaded them extremely hot, not to mention they were his first attempt at reloading, so some were set deep while others were the opposite, he used a Lee loader brand, not the greatest loader on the mkt 50 years ago.
He said use them up quickly son, and I'll reload them, so I did like any kid, I blew through them real quick. :biggrin:

A case expands a tad each time it is fired. Without a length gauge or a good caliper, it is impossible to know how much to trim or even if it needs trimming, then after trimming it has to be deburred. On bottleneck cases, a good lubricant is also needed for the sizing die.
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Offline Murph

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Re: Battle rifle or assault rifle?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 08:27:53 PM »
Does anyone know anything about the Mini-14 or Mini-30? I they're cheaper than the AR but only use factory magazines.

 

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