Author Topic: Alternative Energy - Solar?  (Read 633 times)

Offline Hoofer

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Alternative Energy - Solar?
« on: April 23, 2017, 05:30:59 PM »
Video commentary, worth the listen.  The guy has several other comments on Solar, Wind...



I stumbled across this guy while looking to see if anyone had debunked some of the "free energy" devices and new Innovative (and inefficient) new wind turbines.

The common thread in these new fangled ideas - raising lots of money... and producing nothing for it.
Another example.   I've actually built these, and for the life of me, WHY would you cut off HALF of the most effective wind surface to power your generator???



From the Comments section:
Quote
In regards to which small turbine is best.  This is a copy and paste from another comment string.  In general I would not recommend any "homeowner" turbines for the following reasons.


1.  They all require regular maintenance, and none of them are inexpensive
2.  In order to get good constant wind, a turbine needs to be above structures and the tree line, this requires a tower or pole of some type.  Maintenance then requires working at height, or a way to lower the turbine to the ground, both have varying degrees of danger involved.
3.  Even a small turbine in a run-away condition can be very very dangerous.
4.  Maintenance means working with spinning propellers, gearboxes, and voltage (something many homeowners just aren't up to)


Of course I don't know you, your home situation, or your capabilities.  If you want to experiment with wind power feel free.  For someone who is dead set on buying a wind turbine I would recommend one made for sailboat use, seeing as (in theory) they are designed to be in more extreme environments (constant salt spray, getting jostled around, lots of wind).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 05:44:54 PM by Hoofer »
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Offline walkstall

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 07:04:41 PM »
I would say in the first video you could have a back up generator if there is no sun for a few days.  So no you don't need the grid 24/7.  I like other have a back up generator(s) for when the grid goes down. 

The power co. tells us to save power, so we do and they turnaround a charge us more as we are saving power and they are not getting the money they did before.    Just like the city tell you to save water and then they turnaround and charge you more money for using less water.   

True solar should be 100% on it own. 
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Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 07:36:12 PM »
This is why I've always been against the Commiegreen Energy movement scam.
The Marxists knew, that in order to control something that works, you must first destroy it, which is why they went about killing off coal and oil, claiming Co2 a pollutant.
Without an enemy of the planet, you'd never succeed, so they went about brainwashing an entire generation into believing they, themselves were killing the planet by burning oil. Yeah, they convinced enough kids that they had the ability to control the atmosphere, not weather, no, the entire atmosphere. :rolleyes:

Pretty ingenious if you ask me, and it proves just how infested this country is with the commie scum.
This was my point to Ms.Independence, communists don't react weekly, yearly or by the decade, they plan by the generation, and Millennial are essentially lost and now they'll work on the next generation till they have the people of the free World destroying the very thing that allows them to produce competitively, Capitalism.
Solar, wind, biomass, all bull shit and extremely costly to exist on, not to mention compete in a free mkt under a capitalistic system.

You're right Hoofer, every one of these so-called inventions was designed to siphon off our treasure.
Take Solyndra for example, the concept looked great on paper and even in a lab, but the whole concept was built on a purposeful lie, right down to using a proven failed form of solar cell, one known to have a total lifespan of 10 years.
Even if Solyndra had been a success, the lawsuits alone over failed panels would have killed them. Yep, Solyndra was never ever meant to succeed, its sole purpose was to steal money and feed the communist machine hiding in plain sight, the Dem party.

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Offline Rotwang

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 08:02:57 PM »
This is why I've always been against the Commiegreen Energy movement scam.
The Marxists knew, that in order to control something that works, you must first destroy it, which is why they went about killing off coal and oil, claiming Co2 a pollutant.
Without an enemy of the planet, you'd never succeed, so they went about brainwashing an entire generation into believing they, themselves were killing the planet by burning oil. Yeah, they convinced enough kids that they had the ability to control the atmosphere, not weather, no, the entire atmosphere. :rolleyes:

Pretty ingenious if you ask me, and it proves just how infested this country is with the commie scum.
This was my point to Ms.Independence, communists don't react weekly, yearly or by the decade, they plan by the generation, and Millennial are essentially lost and now they'll work on the next generation till they have the people of the free World destroying the very thing that allows them to produce competitively, Capitalism.
Solar, wind, biomass, all bull shit and extremely costly to exist on, not to mention compete in a free mkt under a capitalistic system.

You're right Hoofer, every one of these so-called inventions was designed to siphon off our treasure.
Take Solyndra for example, the concept looked great on paper and even in a lab, but the whole concept was built on a purposeful lie, right down to using a proven failed form of solar cell, one known to have a total lifespan of 10 years.
Even if Solyndra had been a success, the lawsuits alone over failed panels would have killed them. Yep, Solyndra was never ever meant to succeed, its sole purpose was to steal money and feed the communist machine hiding in plain sight, the Dem party.

As pitiful as Solar Power is, as costs come down it can be useful, especially in sunny climes.

In southern areas I'll bet you could generate enough power to run your Air Conditioner - ironically.

But Wind Power ?

Useless.

And even the MAINSTREAM MEDIA is beginning to recognize that now.

Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 06:15:09 PM »
As pitiful as Solar Power is, as costs come down it can be useful, especially in sunny climes.

In southern areas I'll bet you could generate enough power to run your Air Conditioner - ironically.

But Wind Power ?

Useless.

And even the MAINSTREAM MEDIA is beginning to recognize that now.
I won't go into the math, but you'd have to spend at least 50 grand to even consider running an AC unit on solar.
I have more than that in my system, and still can't run AC because of all the other loads in the house, like two freezers and a commercial fridge.
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Offline walkstall

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 07:34:38 PM »
I won't go into the math, but you'd have to spend at least 50 grand to even consider running an AC unit on solar.
I have more than that in my system, and still can't run AC because of all the other loads in the house, like two freezers and a commercial fridge.

Put just the AC on a standby generator for the nights you would like to sleep. 
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.  I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.  ~ Ronald Reagan ~

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 08:03:56 PM »
Put just the AC on a standby generator for the nights you would like to sleep.
yEP, IT WOULD TAKE A LIFETIME OF USE AND FUEL TO EVEN COME CLOSE TO 50 GRAND ON A GENSET,.
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 04:37:57 PM »
I won't go into the math, but you'd have to spend at least 50 grand to even consider running an AC unit on solar.
I have more than that in my system, and still can't run AC because of all the other loads in the house, like two freezers and a commercial fridge.

I'll freely admit, years ago, I thought an entire roof of solar panels could generate more than enough power for the average family.
Unfortunately, the sun does not shine 24hrs a day.  We haven't seen sunshine in southern Virginia since Friday morning!  And there hasn't been a good steady breeze any of those days. 

When a popular Alternative Energy Magazine admitted the payback on some of those monster systems was 30 years (life of the panels), at sky-high electric rates...  ahem... not on my roof, you don't.  To drive home the point, they claimed the electric rates would double, because we're running out of evil fossil fuels (trying to scare people into going "solar").   Of course, you've got to HURRY and take advantage of the free government matching grants, before they run out.

The maintenance cost of wind power is terrible and dangerous, just like trying to shovel snow off your solar panels is likewise dangerous.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 08:49:01 AM »
I'll freely admit, years ago, I thought an entire roof of solar panels could generate more than enough power for the average family.
Unfortunately, the sun does not shine 24hrs a day.  We haven't seen sunshine in southern Virginia since Friday morning!  And there hasn't been a good steady breeze any of those days. 

When a popular Alternative Energy Magazine admitted the payback on some of those monster systems was 30 years (life of the panels), at sky-high electric rates...  ahem... not on my roof, you don't.  To drive home the point, they claimed the electric rates would double, because we're running out of evil fossil fuels (trying to scare people into going "solar").   Of course, you've got to HURRY and take advantage of the free government matching grants, before they run out.

The maintenance cost of wind power is terrible and dangerous, just like trying to shovel snow off your solar panels is likewise dangerous.
Exactly! The only way to make solar viable, is one, destroy our ability to produce cheap energy, the other is to subsidize the shit out of solar.
Then, as you pointed out, life span. When I put my system up, I used only the best panels available, and they still produce like new decades later, but when Hussein started funding every solar wannabe manufacturer under the sun, the quality crashed to an average level of 12 to 15 years life expectancy on panels, most Chinese made.

Sad thing is, it's a slow death on the panels. First, they'll seem to weaken in summer months, but winter rolls around and they peak back up. This continues over a few years and people start replacing a few panels here and there, thinking it was a few suspect panels, when in fact, the system is reaching its end time.

Remember when Carter pushed hydro solar? All those rooftop systems froze out/leaked, flooded homes, people couldn't give them away, and that's what will eventually happen to the photovoltaic mkt, people will cut their losses and abandon the entire concept.
Yeah, Marxist market forces at work. :sneaky:
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 03:24:01 PM »
I remember those glass evacuated collectors.. failing during a Hail storm.

IMO... Solar & Wind Energy are just a fun little projects to impress your kids & neighbors, now-days, it's popularized by Youtube videos - much like those perpetual motion machines and free-energy generators.

Come to think of it, I would have built a Sirling cycle generator, if I thought it could actually generate enough power to light my house.
I could have built a dozen of them into an outdoor wood burning stove - for peak electrical power & efficiency in the dead of winter (they work on temperature differential).   The dead giveaway, it takes a raging flame-thrower of a blow torch to get them started.... alas, we're stuck with the internal combustion engine for the rest of my lifetime...

The really tough thing about Solar energy, is trying to balance that with Global Warming.   If we pump more particulate matter into the air, the earth will cool off, and the nasty effects of Global Warming will be happily abated!  So burn lots of COAL and fossile fuels!!!
But... if everyone switched to Solar Panels, then the sky would eventually become clearer, the panels would become more efficient, and the earth would become hotter and hotter - ever get near a solar panel in full sun!?   They get damn hot!   Like Blacktop Asphalt hot!   Global-Warming-Scary-Hot!   Can't have it both ways, Alternative Energy is slowly heating up the planet.

The logic works as good as any Environmentalist logic - I'm sticking with it.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 03:21:08 PM »
I remember those glass evacuated collectors.. failing during a Hail storm.

IMO... Solar & Wind Energy are just a fun little projects to impress your kids & neighbors, now-days, it's popularized by Youtube videos - much like those perpetual motion machines and free-energy generators.

Come to think of it, I would have built a Sirling cycle generator, if I thought it could actually generate enough power to light my house.
I could have built a dozen of them into an outdoor wood burning stove - for peak electrical power & efficiency in the dead of winter (they work on temperature differential).   The dead giveaway, it takes a raging flame-thrower of a blow torch to get them started.... alas, we're stuck with the internal combustion engine for the rest of my lifetime...

The really tough thing about Solar energy, is trying to balance that with Global Warming.   If we pump more particulate matter into the air, the earth will cool off, and the nasty effects of Global Warming will be happily abated!  So burn lots of COAL and fossile fuels!!!
But... if everyone switched to Solar Panels, then the sky would eventually become clearer, the panels would become more efficient, and the earth would become hotter and hotter - ever get near a solar panel in full sun!?   They get damn hot!   Like Blacktop Asphalt hot!   Global-Warming-Scary-Hot!   Can't have it both ways, Alternative Energy is slowly heating up the planet.

The logic works as good as any Environmentalist logic - I'm sticking with it.
I've lived on solar for nearly 30 years now, and I can tell ya, had I been tied to the grid, I'd be $150 thousand dollars ahead.
Sure, it's great for remote living, but no matter how you slice it, it's damned expensive, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Especially now with the Commie "Smart Meter" tracking your every move in your home.

I posted this years ago and got no hits, don't know why, but it's still relevant today.

Proof That The Left Wants To Destroy Our Economy
October 06, 2010

Either that, or they are the most ignorant humans on the Planet.
I cut the article, but it's worth reading.

EPA Estimates Its Greenhouse Gas Restrictions Would Reduce Global Temperature by No More Than 0.006 of a Degree in 90 Years

http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/proof-that-the-left-wants-to-destroy-our-economy/msg2831/#msg2831
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Offline SkippingWithScissors

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 08:59:56 AM »
I kind of hope the rooftop system Elon Musk is marketing is as good, and as inexpensive, as promised.

Right now, I like to use solar only for keeping batteries charged.

I priceg solar for the house, but it's always been just too much of an investment. I also have been afraid of some wonderful breakthrough AFTER I've bought and installed a system.


Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 09:28:16 AM »
I kind of hope the rooftop system Elon Musk is marketing is as good, and as inexpensive, as promised.

Right now, I like to use solar only for keeping batteries charged.

I priceg solar for the house, but it's always been just too much of an investment. I also have been afraid of some wonderful breakthrough AFTER I've bought and installed a system.
Don't count on it, solar passed its peak and without govt subsidies will die a slow and painful death.


Edit:
I did a search to see what the panels look like and if this is it, they start with an inherent flaw. Heat, having them against the roof without ventilation creates friction where energy transmission is concerned, not to mention gassing of the EVA assuming they are using an adhesive.
Gassing occurs when the EVA over temps and cooks out, leaving a browned surface over the cell itself, that alone doesn't hurt the cell, but it does obstruct photons much in the way sunglasses do for the human eye.

Yes, heat murders solar cells, as I pointed out, the more heat, the less current travels freely, in fact, even new panels produce 25% more output in cold conditions over their nominal rated output.
Judging from the pic, there is absolutely nothing new or ground breaking about these cells. I have some of the panels from the very first solar power plant back in the 70s, in Carizzo Ca, they used giant reflectors on the panels to boost output, of course this increased the heat dramatically, within a few weeks the panels were completely useless due to gassing.

The cells in the pic are nearly identical to the single cut crystal (Mono Crystal) cells from the 70s, same ones Bell labs invented a century ago.

I know, because I've been in the industry roughly 30 years.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 09:51:27 AM by Solar »
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Offline Rotwang

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 08:01:17 PM »
Don't count on it, solar passed its peak and without govt subsidies will die a slow and painful death.


Edit:
I did a search to see what the panels look like and if this is it, they start with an inherent flaw. Heat, having them against the roof without ventilation creates friction where energy transmission is concerned, not to mention gassing of the EVA assuming they are using an adhesive.
Gassing occurs when the EVA over temps and cooks out, leaving a browned surface over the cell itself, that alone doesn't hurt the cell, but it does obstruct photons much in the way sunglasses do for the human eye.

Yes, heat murders solar cells, as I pointed out, the more heat, the less current travels freely, in fact, even new panels produce 25% more output in cold conditions over their nominal rated output.
Judging from the pic, there is absolutely nothing new or ground breaking about these cells. I have some of the panels from the very first solar power plant back in the 70s, in Carizzo Ca, they used giant reflectors on the panels to boost output, of course this increased the heat dramatically, within a few weeks the panels were completely useless due to gassing.

The cells in the pic are nearly identical to the single cut crystal (Mono Crystal) cells from the 70s, same ones Bell labs invented a century ago.

I know, because I've been in the industry roughly 30 years.

The best solution to all this horseshit will, eventually, be NUCLEAR POWER.

Nuclear Technology has advanced tremendously, and continues to, simply because it is so critical to American Military purposes.

Someday it will so commonplace, it will be taken for granted.

DOUBT ME ?

Younger Folk, and Older Folk with short memories, need to be reminded that during the 1970's and 1980's vast swaths of the public believed MICROWAVE OVENS presented a major Health Risk.

The food would be radioactive, and we would ALL DIE because of it !

Online Solar

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Re: Alternative Energy - Solar?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 08:44:09 PM »
The best solution to all this horseshit will, eventually, be NUCLEAR POWER.

Nuclear Technology has advanced tremendously, and continues to, simply because it is so critical to American Military purposes.

Someday it will so commonplace, it will be taken for granted.

DOUBT ME ?

Younger Folk, and Older Folk with short memories, need to be reminded that during the 1970's and 1980's vast swaths of the public believed MICROWAVE OVENS presented a major Health Risk.

The food would be radioactive, and we would ALL DIE because of it !
Assuming we can get the govt out of the way, or the rest of the world will pass us by.
And yes, Canada is already building these mini reactors, as well as nearly 50 other companies, including one here in the US, but we are still not allowed to purchase one.
I like the one Canada is building.
http://web.i2massociates.com/categories/sweden-canadian-leadcold-smr-seals-funding-agreement-with-essel-an-indian-multinational-conglomerate.asp

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/nuclear-power-reactors/small-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx
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