If society collapses (like "The Walking Dead" or similar) we are all doomed, there is no future for man.  Whether it be caused by virus, war, meteor, etc., it makes no difference. 

There are over 200 nuclear power plants in the US alone, and the backup generators can only run for a few days to a few weeks, depending upon the system, and once the water stops flowing around the fuel rods, they will quickly heat up, and explode like in the Japanese plant a few years ago.  With hundreds of nuclear power plants exploding, there will be so much radiation spewed into the atmosphere, that the air will be unbreathable, and the planet uninhabitable for centuries, if not longer.  This does not even take into account the thousands/millions of tons of spent nuclear rods sitting in storage facilities that need constant maintenance as they too are radioactive, and needs a lot of attention as they run very hot and need their housing replaced often.  People trying to feed themselves and stay alive in some kind of apocalypse are not going to focus on vast, complex tasks like that.

Quote from: rmadison on July 27, 2013, 03:33:57 PM
If society collapses (like "The Walking Dead" or similar) we are all doomed, there is no future for man.  Whether it be caused by virus, war, meteor, etc., it makes no difference. 

There are over 200 nuclear power plants in the US alone, and the backup generators can only run for a few days to a few weeks, depending upon the system, and once the water stops flowing around the fuel rods, they will quickly heat up, and explode like in the Japanese plant a few years ago.  With hundreds of nuclear power plants exploding, there will be so much radiation spewed into the atmosphere, that the air will be unbreathable, and the planet uninhabitable for centuries, if not longer.  This does not even take into account the thousands/millions of tons of spent nuclear rods sitting in storage facilities that need constant maintenance as they too are radioactive, and needs a lot of attention as they run very hot and need their housing replaced often.  People trying to feed themselves and stay alive in some kind of apocalypse are not going to focus on vast, complex tasks like that.

The fuel rods can be retracted mechanically, it is a fail safe built into all plants today, they will not explode, the Fukishima plant had been hit by an earthquake, followed by a tsunami, that flooded the back up genset, as well as the backup battery bank to back up the genset.
All poorly designed, and very outdated on today's standards.

Point is, the chaos of a world wide collapse would by far endanger mans existence more than a few hundred nuke plants, most plants will shut down automatically, even if man is gone.
I believe famine, gangs, etc would be far worse in the short term, than anything else. (Mad Max revisited)

Quote from: rmadison on July 27, 2013, 03:33:57 PM
If society collapses (like "The Walking Dead" or similar) we are all doomed, there is no future for man.  Whether it be caused by virus, war, meteor, etc., it makes no difference. 

There are over 200 nuclear power plants in the US alone, and the backup generators can only run for a few days to a few weeks, depending upon the system, and once the water stops flowing around the fuel rods, they will quickly heat up, and explode like in the Japanese plant a few years ago.  With hundreds of nuclear power plants exploding, there will be so much radiation spewed into the atmosphere, that the air will be unbreathable, and the planet uninhabitable for centuries, if not longer.  This does not even take into account the thousands/millions of tons of spent nuclear rods sitting in storage facilities that need constant maintenance as they too are radioactive, and needs a lot of attention as they run very hot and need their housing replaced often.  People trying to feed themselves and stay alive in some kind of apocalypse are not going to focus on vast, complex tasks like that.

Holy cow! Where did you get all this tripe? You might want to get some basic information on how a nuclear reactor works before you start spouting about such things.

Quote from: TboneAgain on July 27, 2013, 05:22:40 PM
Holy cow! Where did you get all this tripe? You might want to get some basic information on how a nuclear reactor works before you start spouting about such things.

  I can remember my first post on a political board like it was yesterday.  It was at The Palace of Mean™ @ the old AT&T board.   They ripped me up one side and down the other for 2 days on that post.  My first internet political board educations.  (Know what your talking about and be set to back it up with facts and data.)

Quote from: TboneAgain on July 27, 2013, 05:22:40 PM
Holy cow! Where did you get all this tripe? You might want to get some basic information on how a nuclear reactor works before you start spouting about such things.

T, didn't you know nuke reactors "Explode"?

Quote from: Solar on July 27, 2013, 07:03:16 PM
T, didn't you know nuke reactors "Explode"?

Whatever happened to the meltdown first!

Quote from: Solar on July 27, 2013, 04:00:11 PM
The fuel rods can be retracted mechanically, it is a fail safe built into all plants today, they will not explode, the Fukishima plant had been hit by an earthquake, followed by a tsunami, that flooded the back up genset, as well as the backup battery bank to back up the genset.  All poorly designed, and very outdated on today's standards.  Point is, the chaos of a world wide collapse would by far endanger mans existence more than a few hundred nuke plants, most plants will shut down automatically, even if man is gone.  I believe famine, gangs, etc would be far worse in the short term, than anything else. (Mad Max revisited)

Nice response, but you are factually incorrect.  First off, if water cannot be continually circulated to cool the fuel rods, they will eventually melt down, and there will be an explosion.  Second, the spent fuel rods kept on site also need to be maintained, which obviously in a disaster no one will be around to do so.

This video at 1:39, 9:49 and 16:46 show how even if there is no meltdown in the reactor cores there will be radioactive releases from the spent rods.  Even if EVERY American plant core is perfectly contained - obviously unlikely - that does not speak for the hundreds of worldwide plants build with fewer safety features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAndlZr0kaw&feature=player_embedded

The spent fuel needs to be cooled indefinitely as they will be radioactive for centuries, and without power that is not possible.

Quote from: rmadison on July 27, 2013, 08:49:59 PM
Nice response, but you are factually incorrect.  First off, if water cannot be continually circulated to cool the fuel rods, they will eventually melt down, and there will be an explosion.  Second, the spent fuel rods kept on site also need to be maintained, which obviously in a disaster no one will be around to do so.

This video at 1:39, 9:49 and 16:46 show how even if there is no meltdown in the reactor cores there will be radioactive releases from the spent rods.  Even if EVERY American plant core is perfectly contained - obviously unlikely - that does not speak for the hundreds of worldwide plants build with fewer safety features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAndlZr0kaw&feature=player_embedded

The spent fuel needs to be cooled indefinitely as they will be radioactive for centuries, and without power that is not possible.

Nice response, but you are factually incorrect.
Spent fuel rods remain hot after use and are kept in pools for a few years to cool, after that they are moved to dry casks, which allow for dry cooling, that's right, they are out and that is that.

Even if these pools were to run dry, the racks holding the rods are designed so that a nuclear reaction will not take place, in other words, they will continue to give off heat, but that's it, just heat.
Even if no one was around, the rods in the pools would continue to cool on their own.
Is there a potential for radioactive release, sure, but again, if the world order were to break down, a nuke plant will be the last of your worries.
Is there the potential for an explosion, yes of course, but not a nuclear explosion, rather one generated by steam pressure full of hydrogen gas which is explosive, but again, this would be of little concern considering mere survival would be of the utmost importance.

Here is a good place to go for the facts to get a good understanding of how the operation works, and keep in mind, every safety precaution is designed with sever overkill where nuclear energy is concerned.

http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent-fuel-storage/faqs.html#2

My point is, for this scenario to take place, would require all of civilization to breakdown immediately, otherwise people would still be around to take care of issues and see to it that all of this is secure, as in the military.
But if the Military no longer exists, that means our entire societal structure has collapsed and it's every man for himself, and the last thing people are going to be concerned with is radiation.

Quote from: Solar on July 28, 2013, 05:40:00 AMNice response, but you are factually incorrect.

No I am correct, which you actually allude to in your response... 

QuoteSpent fuel rods remain hot after use and are kept in pools for a few years to cool, after that they are moved to dry casks, which allow for dry cooling, that's right, they are out and that is that.  Even if these pools were to run dry, the racks holding the rods are designed so that a nuclear reaction will not take place, in other words, they will continue to give off heat, but that's it, just heat.

Let's start with basic physics, if standing water is heated, what happens?  Its temperature rises and some of it will evaporate, and will do so at a faster rate than if it is not heated.  Once the cooling water is heated in the pools holding the spent fuel rods, they will heat up and catch fire, spewing radiation into the atmosphere.  The video I posted discusses this at length.

QuoteEven if no one was around, the rods in the pools would continue to cool on their own.

And how would this happen, without electricity to pump cool water into the pools to replace heated water?

QuoteIs there a potential for radioactive release, sure, but again, if the world order were to break down, a nuke plant will be the last of your worries.

No, not really, and certainly not if you lived within 50-100 miles of one.

QuoteIs there the potential for an explosion, yes of course, but not a nuclear explosion, rather one generated by steam pressure full of hydrogen gas which is explosive, but again, this would be of little concern considering mere survival would be of the utmost importance.

The containment vessels holding the active fuel rods also need circulating water to keep those fuel rods cooled, and if water is not circulated, there will likely be an explosion there as well.  No where in ANY of my posts did I say NUCLEAR explosion, I said EXPLOSION, which is certainly a very strong possibility given that the uncirculated water cooling the active fuel rods will also heat up, causing the active fuel rods to catch fire/explode.

QuoteHere is a good place to go for the facts to get a good understanding of how the operation works, and keep in mind, every safety precaution is designed with sever overkill where nuclear energy is concerned.

All of these safety precautions presume that there are people around to maintain them, and End Times assume few will be.  From your own link:

How are spent fuel pools kept cool? What happens if the cooling system fails?

"The spent fuel pool is cooled by an attached cooling system. The system keeps fuel temperatures low enough that, even if cooling were lost, operators would have substantial time to recover cooling before boiling could occur in the spent fuel pool. Licensees also have backup ways to cool the spent fuel pool, using temporary equipment that would be available even after fires, explosions, or other unlikely events that could damage large portions of the facility and prevent operation of normal cooling systems. Operators have been trained to use this backup equipment, and it has been evaluated to provide adequate cooling even if the pool structure loses its water-tight integrity."

I highlighted the words "system" because it implies electronics needing electricity which would not be available in an apocalypse, "operators" - which implies people to work said equipment who would not be around, and "temporary" which implies that the back-up systems that kick in during an emergency would not last indefinitely.

I think it is pretty clear that even in the words of the NRC, the spent fuel rod pools would fail in an apocalypse, which would also be worsened by powerful explosions coming from the containment vessels of the main cores holding the active fuel.  Multiply this times several hundred around the world, and we're f--ked.

Quote from: rmadison on July 28, 2013, 07:59:45 AM
No I am correct, which you actually allude to in your response... 

Let's start with basic physics, if standing water is heated, what happens?  Its temperature rises and some of it will evaporate, and will do so at a faster rate than if it is not heated.  Once the cooling water is heated in the pools holding the spent fuel rods, they will heat up and catch fire, spewing radiation into the atmosphere.  The video I posted discusses this at length.

And how would this happen, without electricity to pump cool water into the pools to replace heated water?

They will not catch fire, read the link I provided, they explain how it was designed for this scenario.
Not to mention the generators will run weeks without man fueling them, and after that, battery banks kick in extending the process further.
But why wouldn't someone be fueling them weeks later? Probably because everyone is already dead.

Your need to push the idea of a meltdown is ludicrous, if it happened to one plant, there would be people/resources to deal with the issue, if it happened to every plant at the same time, that would inevitably mean a worldwide catastrophic event, meaning most people are already dead and radiation will be the last thing on anyone's mind.

Spent fuel rods remain "hot" for a long time, but not "hot" in the temperature sense. The word "hot" is commonly used to indicate radioactivity, not thermal heat.

rmadison, you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.