Windows to Linux: A Short-Distance Migration

Started by TboneAgain, February 22, 2015, 08:19:37 PM

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TboneAgain

(I call it a short-distance migration because I actually haven't gone anywhere. I'm perhaps migrating from one desktop operating system to another, but I'm still sitting in the same chair, doing the same things, in front of the same keyboard and monitor.)

In recent weeks, I installed Linux Mint, a derivative of Ubuntu, on my main desktop computer. I installed Mint, not as my primary OS, but as a parallel OS to Windows 7. Both OSes are 64-bit. To be clear about this, what I have now is a "dual-boot" machine, one I can boot with either Windows 7 or Mint. The two OSes do not, and will not, run simultaneously.

All along, I've been talking about this move with several people, one of whom is Taxed, our board's IT whizbang, and a diehard Linux freak. He suggested that I chronicle my experiences on the board, both as a way to share with everyone what it's like, and as a way to brainstorm about how to make it all work.

I think Taxed had a good idea, so here I am, here it is, and it's all presented to you by Linux Mint!  :tounge:

I'll be adding to this thread as I go through the process. Tomorrow I'll document the initial install process and some of my first impressions. Please check back regularly for additions!
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

walkstall

Quote from: TboneAgain on February 22, 2015, 08:19:37 PM
(I call it a short-distance migration because I actually haven't gone anywhere. I'm perhaps migrating from one desktop operating system to another, but I'm still sitting in the same chair, doing the same things, in front of the same keyboard and monitor.)

In recent weeks, I installed Linux Mint, a derivative of Ubuntu, on my main desktop computer. I installed Mint, not as my primary OS, but as a parallel OS to Windows 7. Both OSes are 64-bit. To be clear about this, what I have now is a "dual-boot" machine, one I can boot with either Windows 7 or Mint. The two OSes do not, and will not, run simultaneously.

All along, I've been talking about this move with several people, one of whom is Taxed, our board's IT whizbang, and a diehard Linux freak. He suggested that I chronicle my experiences on the board, both as a way to share with everyone what it's like, and as a way to brainstorm about how to make it all work.

I think Taxed had a good idea, so here I am, here it is, and it's all presented to you by Linux Mint!  :tounge:

I'll be adding to this thread as I go through the process. Tomorrow I'll document the initial install process and some of my first impressions. Please check back regularly for additions!

Best of luck T.
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: TboneAgain on February 22, 2015, 08:19:37 PM
(I call it a short-distance migration because I actually haven't gone anywhere. I'm perhaps migrating from one desktop operating system to another, but I'm still sitting in the same chair, doing the same things, in front of the same keyboard and monitor.)

In recent weeks, I installed Linux Mint, a derivative of Ubuntu, on my main desktop computer. I installed Mint, not as my primary OS, but as a parallel OS to Windows 7. Both OSes are 64-bit. To be clear about this, what I have now is a "dual-boot" machine, one I can boot with either Windows 7 or Mint. The two OSes do not, and will not, run simultaneously.

All along, I've been talking about this move with several people, one of whom is Taxed, our board's IT whizbang, and a diehard Linux freak. He suggested that I chronicle my experiences on the board, both as a way to share with everyone what it's like, and as a way to brainstorm about how to make it all work.

I think Taxed had a good idea, so here I am, here it is, and it's all presented to you by Linux Mint!  :tounge:

I'll be adding to this thread as I go through the process. Tomorrow I'll document the initial install process and some of my first impressions. Please check back regularly for additions!
Glad you took the dive first.
I too wanted to switch, but haven't found the motivation. Meaning, if I had to move from Win 7 to 8, I was going Linux, because no way in Hell would I ever use a failed product such as win 8, Toy has it, what a headache.

The other reason I haven't switched is download, I'm extremely limited in how many megs I'm allotted.
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walkstall

Quote from: Solar on February 23, 2015, 05:18:17 AM
Glad you took the dive first.
I too wanted to switch, but haven't found the motivation. Meaning, if I had to move from Win 7 to 8, I was going Linux, because no way in Hell would I ever use a failed product such as win 8, Toy has it, what a headache.

The other reason I haven't switched is download, I'm extremely limited in how many megs I'm allotted.

Hmm... can you not do that at a Library in town one day when you have to go in???
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."

Solar

Quote from: walkstall on February 23, 2015, 03:33:07 PM
Hmm... can you not do that at a Library in town one day when you have to go in???
I don't think they'd appreciate my 36'' monitor sitting on the table. It's a PC, not a laptop.
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TboneAgain

Okay, first the basics.

Here's the setup I started with, in terms of hardware.

My system is a home-built, put together from parts and pieces by me around four years ago.

-- Biostar A880GU3 mainboard
-- AMD Athlon II X2 255 Dual Core CPU running at 3100 Mhz
-- 8 GB RAM
-- 1 TB Samsung hard drive
-- NVIDIA GeForce 210 series graphics adapter with 1 GB VRAM
-- Realtek RTL 8168D/8111D PCI-E gigabit ethernet NIC (on the mainboard)
-- Pioneer DVR-219L DVD-RW drive
-- NVIDIA HD Audio adapter (on the mainboard)
-- Logitech M510 wireless mouse
-- Dell AT101W keyboard (yes, it's an antique, but I love my old "clicky" keyboards)

In addition, I use a Canon MF5750 multi-function printer/scanner/copier/fax attached to the system via USB. Also, my "landline" phone is via an original MagicJack, the kind that works through a PC and plugs into a USB port.

When I first put the system together, I loaded Windows XP Pro as the sole operating system. It was what I had been using for years, it was what I was used to, and it was what I had in my hot little hand at the time. Until a couple months ago, that was the system. Note, though, that I ran it with only 4 GB of RAM because my version of Win XP was the 32-bit variety, which won't recognize more than about 4 GB.

Of course, as the months and years went by, things slowed down, as they always do with well-used PCs. And as things slowed down, the internet especially took off like a funny car, demanding ever-increasing bandwidth and processing power. A lot of us have heard of Moore's Law on computing power, but I like to think back on the old "Best Buy Law," which stated that the latest and greatest fire-breathing, gibabyte-spewing, 750-watt monstrosity you just laid down your last two paychecks to own will be obsolete before you can get home from Best Buy.

Upgrade Fever strikes.

My first upgrade, about two months ago, was an OS upgrade, from XP to Windows 7 Ultra 64-bit. That move allowed me to put another 4-gig stick of RAM into the unit. And there are very few things more effective for speeding up an aging PC than wiping the hard drive and starting over. The move from XP to 7 requires that -- a complete wipe of the hard drive -- because there is no upgrade path between them. And the move from 32-bit to 64-bit and from 4 gigs of RAM to 8 gigs was like a shot of nitromethane -- ZOOM!

The first thing I noticed after going from XP to 7 was speed, LOTS more speed, no matter what I was doing. Everything went faster and seemed to work better. The second thing I noticed was a precipitous drop in hard drive activity. When the machine was 4 gig/32-bit, the hard drive worked its ass off managing the Windows swap file and the virtual memory. This Samsung unit is quiet, but I could still hear it, grinding away about 3/4 of the time, especially when I was using a browser. After going to 8 gig/64-bit, it's like a different machine, and the hard drive activity light seldom blinks.

Upgrade #2.

My second upgrade was with Time Warner. Until about six weeks ago, I had subscribed to their basic cable internet service, which was rated at a minimum of 10 Mbps -- sufficient for general browsing and email purposes, but somewhat limited for heavier use, such as streaming video. In a one-person household, it hadn't been much of a problem, though occasionally I'd just turn off a Netflix feed that was choppy or stopped altogether. Regular testing at speakeasy.net (Chicago node) told me I was getting download speeds of more than 10 Mbps, sometimes as high as 16, but usually more like 12. I don't think it was throttled, but I was probably maxing out the el-cheapo Motorola cable modem I'd had for six years.

The TWC upgrade required a new cable modem -- the Arris unit described above. The new service is supposed to be rated at 30 Mbps. At speakeasy.net, I get 34.12 Mbps every single time I test, not 34.13, and not 34.11. Something tells me that TWC has throttled my download speed to 34.12 Mbps.  :tounge:  Upload speeds are dramatically improved too. I used to be throttled at 980 Kbps; now I'm clocking almost six times that speed -- nearly 6 Mbps. As you can imagine, I'm quite taken with my new experience at the keyboard, and I'm not really out a lot of money -- 40 clams for a "don't ask, don't tell" copy of Windows 7 and about $20/month more on the cable bill.

********************************************

Tomorrow -- How and why I decided to dive into the Linux world, when things were going so swimmingly with Windows.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

TboneAgain

Quote from: Solar on February 23, 2015, 05:18:17 AM
Glad you took the dive first.
I too wanted to switch, but haven't found the motivation. Meaning, if I had to move from Win 7 to 8, I was going Linux, because no way in Hell would I ever use a failed product such as win 8, Toy has it, what a headache.

The other reason I haven't switched is download, I'm extremely limited in how many megs I'm allotted.

DO NOT EVER "upgrade" from Win 7 to Win 8. You will gain nothing, and lose much.

Microsoft does this shit every now and then. It reminds me of Windows Me, the so-called Millennium Edition. WinMe was Win98 with a bit more lipstick and fancier fingernails. I remember laughing at all the melodramatic Sturm und Drang, the out-and-out hatred so many people expressed for WinMe, when Me was just 98 with a change of clothes and a new hairdo. Actually, 98 (Me too) was the best DOS-based OS Microsoft ever produced. I used them interchangeably for years.

In a similar sense, Windows 7 is the best thing Microsoft has come up with since XP, and that's saying a lot. It's a very solid, capable OS, well worth the money to migrate away from XP. But Windows 8 (and 8.1) are to Windows 7 as WinMe was to Win98. There's no real difference in capability or functionality, just a lot of lipstick and fingernail-fixing. Worst of all, with Win8, Microsoft essentially abandoned the desktop market for the pads and laptops with touchscreens.

Just what I need -- a computer I can work with my nose, or my big toe, or the head of my.... well, you get the idea.  :tounge:

By the way, it's possible, and actually fairly easy, to make a Win8 machine look and work like Win7. (Again, they're essentially the same OS.) Just Google it, and you'll find lots of sites that explain how.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Solar

Quote from: TboneAgain on February 23, 2015, 10:11:54 PM
DO NOT EVER "upgrade" from Win 7 to Win 8. You will gain nothing, and lose much.

Microsoft does this shit every now and then. It reminds me of Windows Me, the so-called Millennium Edition. WinMe was Win98 with a bit more lipstick and fancier fingernails. I remember laughing at all the melodramatic Sturm und Drang, the out-and-out hatred so many people expressed for WinMe, when Me was just 98 with a change of clothes and a new hairdo. Actually, 98 (Me too) was the best DOS-based OS Microsoft ever produced. I used them interchangeably for years.

In a similar sense, Windows 7 is the best thing Microsoft has come up with since XP, and that's saying a lot. It's a very solid, capable OS, well worth the money to migrate away from XP. But Windows 8 (and 8.1) are to Windows 7 as WinMe was to Win98. There's no real difference in capability or functionality, just a lot of lipstick and fingernail-fixing. Worst of all, with Win8, Microsoft essentially abandoned the desktop market for the pads and laptops with touchscreens.

Just what I need -- a computer I can work with my nose, or my big toe, or the head of my.... well, you get the idea.  :tounge:

By the way, it's possible, and actually fairly easy, to make a Win8 machine look and work like Win7. (Again, they're essentially the same OS.) Just Google it, and you'll find lots of sites that explain how.
If Microsoft (tinypenis) ever brought back Win 98 as it was in Win 98 SE, the PC mkt would be beating down the doors for a copy.
I'd pay top dollar for a new version.

Microsoft is akin to what would happen if Boeing followed the Win format, every passenger jet would be loaded with lowrider hydraulics, every safety feature known to man, including airbags,carbon recapture unit, life raft in every seat, of course there'd be no room for passengers, and the plane would never get off the ground, but that's aside the fact that it's now 100% eco friendly.

Why is it that "Progressives" are actually regressive?
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TboneAgain

Quote from: Solar on February 24, 2015, 07:53:31 AM
If Microsoft (tinypenis) ever brought back Win 98 as it was in Win 98 SE, the PC mkt would be beating down the doors for a copy.
I'd pay top dollar for a new version.

Microsoft is akin to what would happen if Boeing followed the Win format, every passenger jet would be loaded with lowrider hydraulics, every safety feature known to man, including airbags,carbon recapture unit, life raft in every seat, of course there'd be no room for passengers, and the plane would never get off the ground, but that's aside the fact that it's now 100% eco friendly.

Why is it that "Progressives" are actually regressive?

I was a fan of Win98 Second Edition too. Back then, I had a small shop and I was building and upgrading PCs for people. It reached a point where Microsoft had stopped selling 98 altogether and Me was quite a bit cheaper to buy in the form of OEM CDs, and I bought a bunch of 'em. What a lot of people didn't know back then is that every Me OEM CD had a clean copy of 98SE that could be installed from the root directory. Actually, I'm pretty sure I still have an OEM Win98SE CD around here somewhere.

Ah, there's no going back, and I don't think I'd want to anyway. Back to FAT32? Back to MS-DOS, an OS written with the assumption that no PC would ever have more than 1 MB of RAM? In that day, 98SE was shit hot, and I loved it. But it could never do what we demand to be done now.

About a year ago, I finally got rid of an old Dell PC 80486 system I'd had for years. It was 1993 vintage with matching serial numbers on most of the components, designed for MS-DOS and the early Windows 3.x series. Before I listed it on eBay, I ran it through its paces, and installed some of the best software from the day. It was a hoot playing Wolfenstein 3D and the original Doom on it -- which stretched the system's capabilities to the max -- but my internet setup left something to be desired. There was (is) a DOS-based internet browser called Arachne; thirty seconds using it will break your heart.

The fellow in Canada who bought the system (for a rather handsome sum, I must say) says it's his hobby, collecting such stuff. I think he's probably putting together a computer museum. Whatever....

"Progressives," as you correctly point out, are regressive. They need terminological cover, and they think they've found it in the word 'progressive.' They thought they'd found the same cover with 'liberal,' until they tore that one to pieces. A more correct label, one such people will never adopt, is 'statist.' 'Authoritarian' is actually not far off, and 'fascist.' There's also 'socialist' and 'communist,' though the tread is mostly gone off 'em.

What we have to remember, and project, is that, no matter what clever term the Left may choose to use today, it's always a lie. It has to be, because Leftism withers and dies in the light of truth. They were 'progressives' back in Wilson's time too; they had to abandon the word when it became so obvious that they were the exact opposite of progressive. They migrated to 'liberal,' a move that highlighted the robber heart of the movement -- stealing a label from the moderate Right. Again, after a few decades, it was so obvious that the so-called liberals were anything but, they had to change it again. Having given it a rest for about forty years, and with no one else interested in the moniker, they've lit on 'progressive' again. Whatever. It's all lies, start to finish. It has to be lies, or no one anywhere would vote for them.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

Solar

Quote from: TboneAgain on February 24, 2015, 01:57:54 PM
I was a fan of Win98 Second Edition too. Back then, I had a small shop and I was building and upgrading PCs for people. It reached a point where Microsoft had stopped selling 98 altogether and Me was quite a bit cheaper to buy in the form of OEM CDs, and I bought a bunch of 'em. What a lot of people didn't know back then is that every Me OEM CD had a clean copy of 98SE that could be installed from the root directory. Actually, I'm pretty sure I still have an OEM Win98SE CD around here somewhere.

Ah, there's no going back, and I don't think I'd want to anyway. Back to FAT32? Back to MS-DOS, an OS written with the assumption that no PC would ever have more than 1 MB of RAM? In that day, 98SE was shit hot, and I loved it. But it could never do what we demand to be done now.

About a year ago, I finally got rid of an old Dell PC 80486 system I'd had for years. It was 1993 vintage with matching serial numbers on most of the components, designed for MS-DOS and the early Windows 3.x series. Before I listed it on eBay, I ran it through its paces, and installed some of the best software from the day. It was a hoot playing Wolfenstein 3D and the original Doom on it -- which stretched the system's capabilities to the max -- but my internet setup left something to be desired. There was (is) a DOS-based internet browser called Arachne; thirty seconds using it will break your heart.

The fellow in Canada who bought the system (for a rather handsome sum, I must say) says it's his hobby, collecting such stuff. I think he's probably putting together a computer museum. Whatever....

"Progressives," as you correctly point out, are regressive. They need terminological cover, and they think they've found it in the word 'progressive.' They thought they'd found the same cover with 'liberal,' until they tore that one to pieces. A more correct label, one such people will never adopt, is 'statist.' 'Authoritarian' is actually not far off, and 'fascist.' There's also 'socialist' and 'communist,' though the tread is mostly gone off 'em.

What we have to remember, and project, is that, no matter what clever term the Left may choose to use today, it's always a lie. It has to be, because Leftism withers and dies in the light of truth. They were 'progressives' back in Wilson's time too; they had to abandon the word when it became so obvious that they were the exact opposite of progressive. They migrated to 'liberal,' a move that highlighted the robber heart of the movement -- stealing a label from the moderate Right. Again, after a few decades, it was so obvious that the so-called liberals were anything but, they had to change it again. Having given it a rest for about forty years, and with no one else interested in the moniker, they've lit on 'progressive' again. Whatever. It's all lies, start to finish. It has to be lies, or no one anywhere would vote for them.
I've no doubt Microsoft could take the basics of Win 98 and make it 64 bit in a heart beat.
Point is, it was simple to navigate compared to, as you appropriately described, lipstick and nail polish BS.
The bare bones is all most people use anyway. Lie me, all I do is the forum and video games, don't care about apps and crap.

But not to go off topic. I finally updated my video card DLL's and suddenly Wolfenstein popped right up.
Wolfenstein: The New Order. I loaded it up and the first puzzle keeps killing me.
Grab the wire cutters and bailing wire, open the fuel port, and.....
I die as son as I crouch and enter. I can't open the floor plate, so I get about 15 seconds and I'm dead.

How do you open that damned floor plate? :biggrin:
Maybe I should open keyboard shortcuts and see what key is used to execute tasks, I assumed it was the E key, like all games, am I right?
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TboneAgain

THE BIG MOVE TO LINUX: How and Why I Made My Move Toward an Open Source OS

I admit that I've been sorta toying and tinkering with Linux for a lot of years. I know enough about Unix and computer history in general to have an appreciation for its role, especially in managing what has become the modern internet. I've always had a nagging desire to throw off the Microsoft shackles and frolic through fields of fresh springtime flowers created by unpaid open source toilers slaving over keyboards in small dark rooms.  :tounge:  Also, I always thought the very concept of a free OS was some pretty cool shit. Having been in the PC business for some years, I don't think I'd care to consider how many tens of thousands of dollars I've sent Bill Gates' way.

The Windows dynasty has to be admired in some ways, I think. If for nothing else, Microsoft has to be applauded for its relative unity of purpose and its leadership capabilities. Even with the alternatives available, Windows still accounts for more than 80% of PC users, and that series of OSes has dictated the rise and fall of hardware standards as much as it has software. (For just one example, Apple liked Firewire and Microsoft liked USB. How many Firewire ports does your current PC have?) In general, I think there's something to be said for uniformity, especially in the PC world, where things can be chaotic indeed. (Anybody else remember the multimedia wars of the early 1990s?) I once owned a Commodore 64, when lots of my best friends owned Apples and TIs and Ataris and TRS-80s. We didn't have networking parties, and we never shared software, because those proprietary systems couldn't work together. There is something to be said for a unifying presence.

On the other hand, there's something to be said for competition and innovation in every field of endeavor, and designing OSes is no different. The early designers of Unix recognized early on that the future of computing was networking, and their work reflected it. Linus Torvalds, in taming and domesticating Unix into Linux, also kept networking front and center. That is why, while Bill Gates and company were floundering around with MS-DOS and Windows 95, the internet was being built with Unix and Linux as its backbone. In that field, Windows has been playing catch-up for over twenty years.

I see Linux as being a user-based endeavor, whereas Windows is a consumer-based endeavor. That may sound like a distinction without a difference, but it's not. Computer users know who they are; everybody else with a computer is a consumer. Linux is meant primarily for people who want to accomplish something with a PC. Windows is better for folks who want to have fun playing with somebody else's software, and that includes your aging mother and your grand-nephew with the rainbow-colored razor cut. I'm not saying that one approach or the other is better, just that the approaches are different.

At my age (I turned 60 last month), and with my background in computers, it may seem that I'd be looking to migrate from Linux to Windows. Yet here I am, moving in exactly the opposite direction. Since I lost Mrs. Tbone back in 2013, a lot of things in my life haven't fit into any accepted pattern. Maybe this is just one of those things.  :smile:

The Initial Install

There are lots of different versions of Linux to choose from these days. Most are based on Debian Linux, but there are plenty of other variations. In the past, I've played around with RedHat Linux and variations like Linspire and Xandros. This time, I picked Linux Mint. I based my decision on online reviews and the considerable influence of our own CPF IT guru and unrepentant Linux freak, Taxed. (Yeah, go ahead and take your bow now, big boy.) Mint is of the Debian/Ubuntu family tree, for those of you familiar with the Linux tribe. Specifically, I downloaded Linux Mint 17.1 "Cinnamon."

**************************

Tomorrow -- How to successfully download and install Linux Mint as a parallel OS on a Windows machine.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

TboneAgain

IT'S EASIER THAN YOU THINK.

Downloading the Mint OS software is, as that Russian guy Yakov Smirnov used to say, a piece of pie, and easy as cake. Just go to the site and get it.

Once you've got it, you need to create a bit-for-bit copy of it for installation. What you want is the .iso version of the software. Once you've got that, you want to burn the .iso to a disc or some other mountable (bootable) media. Once you've done that, you're ready to install Mint. You can read all about how to do those things here.

Once I had my  bootable disc, I shut down my Windows system and rebooted, with the Mint bootable disc in the DVD drive. I don't have screen shots to show you, but what I saw was an offer to run Mint from the DVD, to install Mint from the DVD as a second or parallel system, or to install Mint as the one-and-only OS on the machine. Option 3 means everything on the hard drive -- including Windows 7 or whatever other OS you might have -- disappears; I wasn't ready for that. Option 1 is just sorta silly. I chose Option 2, which allowed me, with guidance, to re-partition my 1-TB hard drive into two roughly equal virtual drives (your computer doesn't know there is another kind) each with plenty of room. My Win7 had half a terabyte to romp around in, and so did my spiffy new Mint OS.

To say that the install was painless is... overstating? I think I pained Mint more than it pained me. I had to answer some very basic questions -- name, rank, serial number, except you don't have to provide the rank or the serial number -- and it was off to the races. Mint installed flawlessly, and detected and properly supported all the internal components of my system. The install was literally one of the easiest software installs I've ever encountered.

It took some time, but as I watched, the Mint installer re-partitioned and partially re-formatted my hard drive. It carved out a 500 GB (or so) territory for itself and installed itself on that turf.

When all was said and done, and the smoke cleared somewhat, I was left with a 'dual-boot' machine. When I hit the power switch to turn this monster on, I have to choose -- will it be Windows 7 (completely and perfectly preserved, as far as I can tell) or the rude and base Linux cur, the ugly mutt hiding in the shadows of Microsoft? Hehehehehe....

TOMORROW: Now it's installed. Where do we go from here?
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. -- Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; IT IS FORCE. -- George Washington

tac


taxed

Good stuff T!  I think this thread will get some eyeballs...

#PureBlood #TrumpWon

walkstall

Quote from: taxed on February 27, 2015, 05:00:32 PM
Good stuff T!  I think this thread will get some eyeballs...

STOP! talking over my head.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
A politician thinks of the next election. A statesman, of the next generation.- James Freeman Clarke

Always remember "Feelings Aren't Facts."