Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 07:32:46 AM

Title: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 07:32:46 AM
That's the leftist spin, and it's crap like this idiot libs fall for! :glare:
If there were fewer women and more "male aggression" in Sandy Hook Elementary School, the massacre there never would have taken place, according to a contribution to a leading conservative magazine.

National Review, whose in-house editorial suggested Newtown was the price of the Second Amendment, published a piece on Wednesday from anti-feminist Charlotte Allen suggesting the reason the shooter was able to kill so many students was because Newtown was a "feminized setting:"

But here's what was actually said, and I agree with.

There was not a single adult male on the school premises when the shooting occurred. In this school of 450 students, a sizeable number of whom were undoubtedly 11- and 12-year-old boys (it was a K–6 school), all the personnel — the teachers, the principal, the assistant principal, the school psychologist, the "reading specialist" — were female. There didn't even seem to be a male janitor to heave his bucket at Adam Lanza's knees. Women and small children are sitting ducks for mass-murderers. The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, seemed to have performed bravely. According to reports, she activated the school's public-address system and also lunged at Lanza, before he shot her to death. Some of the teachers managed to save all or some of their charges by rushing them into closets or bathrooms. But in general, a feminized setting is a setting in which helpless passivity is the norm. Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak.

More~
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/19/1361521/top-conservative-publication-newtown-happened-because-women-ran-the-school/?mobile=nc (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/19/1361521/top-conservative-publication-newtown-happened-because-women-ran-the-school/?mobile=nc)
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 09:39:51 AM
The conservative piece is complete bullshit.

My daughter's preschool/kindergarten is run by all women, and quite frankly, I'd wonder about a man that wanted to work in that atmosphere. Men that like to be around little kids don't exactly have a stellar record.

Yeah right. A janitor would have taken out the killer, with a bucket. Sounds to me like the idiot has been watching too many Steven Segal movies. :mad:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 10:32:47 AM
If this isn't sheer bravery in the face of fire, I don't know what is. I don't think an unarmed man would have done better. Probably lots of men out there that would have given up the kids to save his own ass.

http://nation.foxnews.com/victoria-soto/2012/12/16/victoria-soto-heroic-newtown-teacher-sacrificed-own-life-save-kids (http://nation.foxnews.com/victoria-soto/2012/12/16/victoria-soto-heroic-newtown-teacher-sacrificed-own-life-save-kids)
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 11:01:35 AM
It's the nature of men to protect the young and women, this is undeniable.
I'm not discounting the bravery of the women on that horrible day, but men go through life being physically challenged as opposed to women being intellectually challenged.
As a man, I would have looked for a way to disarm the kid, then beat the living Hell out of him.

There are distinct differences in men and women, one in particular being aggression.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 20, 2012, 11:01:35 AM
It's the nature of men to protect the young and women, this is undeniable.
I'm not discounting the bravery of the women on that horrible day, but men go through life being physically challenged as opposed to women being intellectually challenged.
As a man, I would have looked for a way to disarm the kid, then beat the living Hell out of him.

There are distinct differences in men and women, one in particular being aggression.

Maybe so.
I contend, that any man working in a school, (today), is likely to be metrosexual little lib democrat, that will push the kids out of the way while he's looking for a place to hide. Either that, or a damned child molester.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 11:23:59 AM
Quote from: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 11:21:38 AM
Maybe so.
I contend, that any man working in a school, (today), is likely to be metrosexual little lib democrat, that will push the kids out of the way while he's looking for a place to hide. Either that, or a damned child molester.
Funny how times have changed since I went to school, we had more male teachers than female and they were mostly men you could look up to.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 20, 2012, 11:23:59 AM
Funny how times have changed since I went to school, we had more male teachers than female and they were mostly men you could look up to.

I had one or two of those. By high school, most of the men were little lib wimps. We know for a fact that libs have taken the schools. I don't think many of the males are drill instructor types.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: CubaLibre on December 20, 2012, 11:45:06 AM
Quote from: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 11:29:42 AM
I had one or two of those. By high school, most of the men were little lib wimps. We know for a fact that libs have taken the schools. I don't think many of the males are drill instructor types.
I assume Phys-Ed is the exception. :wink:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 12:17:30 PM
Quote from: CubaLibre on December 20, 2012, 11:45:06 AM
I assume Phys-Ed is the exception. :wink:

Yep. For the most part.

Don't get me wrong. I had a few good male teachers in high school too. But to think they would be capable, while unarmed, to stop a crazed shooter, is just stupid.

The conservative writer had a good point to make.............the feminization of US males by the left. But he completely blew it by using the school shootings, and saying that a janitor with a bucket, could have stopped it.

It's that kind of dumb shit that only makes the left stronger. :mad:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: mdgiles on December 20, 2012, 12:30:05 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 12:17:30 PM
Yep. For the most part.

Don't get me wrong. I had a few good male teachers in high school too. But to think they would be capable, while unarmed, to stop a crazed shooter, is just stupid.

The conservative writer had a good point to make.............the feminization of US males by the left. But he completely blew it by using the school shootings, and saying that a janitor with a bucket, could have stopped it.

It's that kind of dumb shit that only makes the left stronger. :mad:
In the Aurora shooting some men died because they put themselves between gunfire and their date. Had they survived to be asked, I have no doubt that most of them had even thought about it before they did it, it's simply instinctive. The shooter - like many of his ilk - immediately committed suicide when the police arrived. How would he have reacted to being rushed by three or four angry guys. For him to have even paused for a moment, would have meant the survival, of more women and children.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 12:17:30 PM
Yep. For the most part.

Don't get me wrong. I had a few good male teachers in high school too. But to think they would be capable, while unarmed, to stop a crazed shooter, is just stupid.

The conservative writer had a good point to make.............the feminization of US males by the left. But he completely blew it by using the school shootings, and saying that a janitor with a bucket, could have stopped it.

It's that kind of dumb shit that only makes the left stronger. :mad:
I can't speak for all men, but I would actually look for some kind of weapon to use to stop him, women on the other hand think of the children and getting them to safety, that is how it's always been throughout history.

And the author is a woman.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 03:34:18 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 20, 2012, 12:55:25 PM
I can't speak for all men, but I would actually look for some kind of weapon to use to stop him, women on the other hand think of the children and getting them to safety, that is how it's always been throughout history.

And the author is a woman.

I still disagree with her premise, that the reason for the shootings was because women ran the school.

If I had a choice between a male teacher, and a trained and armed woman, I'd bet on the woman.

It's easy to sit here and say what we think we would do, but in all likelihood, the shooter would have probably taken out a man first. He started with the authority figures, and moved on from there.

If she had attempted to make a point about the absence of male role models, and the attempts by the left to use drugs and coercion to suppress natural male behavior from our young boys, she would have been onto something. But it's an entirely different subject.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 03:34:18 PM
I still disagree with her premise, that the reason for the shootings was because women ran the school.

If I had a choice between a male teacher, and a trained and armed woman, I'd bet on the woman.

It's easy to sit here and say what we think we would do, but in all likelihood, the shooter would have probably taken out a man first. He started with the authority figures, and moved on from there.

If she had attempted to make a point about the absence of male role models, and the attempts by the left to use drugs and coercion to suppress natural male behavior from our young boys, she would have been onto something. But it's an entirely different subject.
That was not what she claimed, that is the BS Thinkprogress is spewing.
Go back and read the entire article, not just the part I posted, then hit NRO for the full article.

The reason I posted this was to expose the lib bias in everything they do.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Darth Fife on December 20, 2012, 03:42:09 PM
All I'll say is that if the principal, whether man or woman, had had a handgun locked up in his/her office and knew how to use it. He/she and quite possibly all of those kids would probably be alive today.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 03:48:32 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 20, 2012, 03:42:09 PM
All I'll say is that if the principal, whether man or woman, had had a handgun locked up in his/her office and knew how to use it. He/she and quite possibly all of those kids would probably be alive today.
Exactly!
That's part of the authors point, the feminizing of the school system, to the point of being sitting ducks.
Yes, there should be two armed people in school at all times, man or woman, doesn't matter, they need to be trained and required to carry when on school grounds.

Can you imagine if a first responder had been 100 ' away at the time?
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Yawn on December 20, 2012, 04:53:53 PM
I don't feel that old (I tell everyone I'm 25), but I guess I am.  There's a lot of truth to that article but political correctness keep people from saying what most reasonable people know in their heart.

Growing up, I had both male and female teachers, but the principle was always a male.  I couldn't even imagine a female principle.  I have no idea if they even existed in my school days, but I never heard of one.  There is something to having a male authority figure in a school and I think that should be a male role.  I also think the principle should have a gun and be well trained in using it.  Every school should have someone well trained for these incidents.

As they say, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."  Police, for the most part, only write up reports AFTER the crime has been committed.  Disarming the population is the dumbest thing a culture can do.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 05:50:46 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 20, 2012, 03:39:14 PM
That was not what she claimed, that is the BS Thinkprogress is spewing.
Go back and read the entire article, not just the part I posted, then hit NRO for the full article.

The reason I posted this was to expose the lib bias in everything they do.

Alright. I'll go back and read it. I might be wrong.

As a sidenote: Today I was thinking about the obsession of the left, on the size of the magazine and how many rounds it holds.

I'm sure that the idiots have no idea that they are encouraging these coward killers to switch to sniper rifles. :mad:

Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2012, 06:00:27 PM
Quote from: Yawn on December 20, 2012, 04:53:53 PM
I don't feel that old (I tell everyone I'm 25), but I guess I am.  There's a lot of truth to that article but political correctness keep people from saying what most reasonable people know in their heart.

Growing up, I had both male and female teachers, but the principle was always a male.  I couldn't even imagine a female principle.  I have no idea if they even existed in my school days, but I never heard of one.  There is something to having a male authority figure in a school and I think that should be a male role.  I also think the principle should have a gun and be well trained in using it.  Every school should have someone well trained for these incidents.

As they say, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."  Police, for the most part, only write up reports AFTER the crime has been committed.  Disarming the population is the dumbest thing a culture can do.
I agree.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Indy on December 20, 2012, 06:59:10 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 20, 2012, 09:39:51 AM
The conservative piece is complete bullshit.

My daughter's preschool/kindergarten is run by all women, and quite frankly, I'd wonder about a man that wanted to work in that atmosphere. Men that like to be around little kids don't exactly have a stellar record.

Yeah right. A janitor would have taken out the killer, with a bucket. Sounds to me like the idiot has been watching too many Steven Segal movies. :mad:
It's BS like this that makes conservatives look like misogynists. It just gives the left that broad brush they love to use.:angry:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Darth Fife on December 20, 2012, 10:04:11 PM
In my day, I knew some nuns who would have taken that bushmaster (and any other weapon he had) and shoved it up that little twerps ass!

Just sayin'...
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 04:18:51 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 20, 2012, 03:39:14 PM
That was not what she claimed, that is the BS Thinkprogress is spewing.
Go back and read the entire article, not just the part I posted, then hit NRO for the full article.

The reason I posted this was to expose the lib bias in everything they do.

Alright, I read the NRO article. Charlotte has a lot of faith in men, and husky 12 year old boys, to go after a crazed shooter, while unarmed. I still think she's being completely unrealistic.

In addition, she has downplayed the bravery on the part of the principle and the other teachers, and implied that the mere presence of a male would have stopped it. Like I said, she has provided ammo to the left.

If we go back through these mass shootings, (Virginia Tech, Gabby Giffford, the mall, the theater), there were men at all of them.........and it didn't change things. Comparing this to stopping the guys on a plane, with box cutters, is completely out of line. If her theory were correct, the Fort Hood shootings should have been stopped as soon as they started. We had 46 casualties and 12 murdered soldiers in the end. :sad:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Indy on December 21, 2012, 04:59:59 AM
Quote from: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 04:18:51 AM
Alright, I read the NRO article. Charlotte has a lot of faith in men, and husky 12 year old boys, to go after a crazed shooter, while unarmed. I still think she's being completely unrealistic.

In addition, she has downplayed the bravery on the part of the principle and the other teachers, and implied that the mere presence of a male would have stopped it. Like I said, she has provided ammo to the left.

If we go back through these mass shootings, (Virginia Tech, Gabby Giffford, the mall, the theater), there were men at all of them.........and it didn't change things. Comparing this to stopping the guys on a plane, with box cutters, is completely out of line. If her theory were correct, the Fort Hood shootings should have been stopped as soon as they started. We had 46 casualties and 12 murdered soldiers in the end. :sad:
In basically a gun free zone.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 05:11:26 AM
Quote from: Indy on December 21, 2012, 04:59:59 AM
In basically a gun free zone.

Right. The mall shooter offed himself when a person with a legal concealed weapon, pulled it out. Not reported.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 21, 2012, 05:26:43 AM
Quote from: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 04:18:51 AM
Alright, I read the NRO article. Charlotte has a lot of faith in men, and husky 12 year old boys, to go after a crazed shooter, while unarmed. I still think she's being completely unrealistic.

In addition, she has downplayed the bravery on the part of the principle and the other teachers, and implied that the mere presence of a male would have stopped it. Like I said, she has provided ammo to the left.

If we go back through these mass shootings, (Virginia Tech, Gabby Giffford, the mall, the theater), there were men at all of them.........and it didn't change things. Comparing this to stopping the guys on a plane, with box cutters, is completely out of line. If her theory were correct, the Fort Hood shootings should have been stopped as soon as they started. We had 46 casualties and 12 murdered soldiers in the end. :sad:
Seriously, Giffords incident?
I suggest you read up on how it was stopped.
Your mention of it, completely supports my point.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 05:46:15 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 21, 2012, 05:26:43 AM
Seriously, Giffords incident?
I suggest you read up on how it was stopped.
Your mention of it, completely supports my point.

Really? I know you hate wiki, but this is the quick rundown.

A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[23] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[24] Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the 14th injury.[25] The gunman was then tackled to the ground by 74-year-old retired US Army Colonel Bill Badger,[26] who himself had been shot, and was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio was a CCW holder and had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not use the firearm to engage or threaten the gunman.

It looks like a collaborative effort to me................or do we ignore what Maisch did, and say that men saved the day?

When it comes to kids, we can look anywhere in nature, (including humans), and see that the female response, (when the young are threatened), is anything but timid and meek. Go mess with some little bear cubs, and see who comes to stop you. :wink:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 21, 2012, 05:56:09 AM
Quote from: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 05:46:15 AM
Really? I know you hate wiki, but this is the quick rundown.

A nearby store employee said he heard "15 to 20 gunshots".[23] Loughner stopped to reload, but dropped the loaded magazine from his pocket to the sidewalk, from where bystander Patricia Maisch grabbed it.[24] Another bystander clubbed the back of the assailant's head with a folding chair, injuring his elbow in the process, representing the 14th injury.[25] The gunman was then tackled to the ground by 74-year-old retired US Army Colonel Bill Badger,[26] who himself had been shot, and was further subdued by Maisch and bystanders Roger Sulzgeber and Joseph Zamudio. Zamudio was a CCW holder and had a weapon on his person, but arrived after the shooting had stopped and did not use the firearm to engage or threaten the gunman.

It looks like a collaborative effort to me................or do we ignore what Maisch did, and say that men saved the day?

When it comes to kids, we can look anywhere in nature, (including humans), and see that the female response, (when the young are threatened), is anything but timid and meek. Go mess with some little bear cubs, and see who comes to stop you. :wink:
He had another clip, but was stopped before he could continue.
There were people in trhe area that were armed, but it happened so quickly and so much confusion, no one could get off a shot.
But thanks to one man with balls, he was subdued.
Yeah, it still makes my case.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been in situations that require quick thinking and putting your own life at risk, and never once considered my own safety, it's how I was raised, to be a man first.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 06:51:51 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 21, 2012, 05:56:09 AM
He had another clip, but was stopped before he could continue.
There were people in trhe area that were armed, but it happened so quickly and so much confusion, no one could get off a shot.
But thanks to one man with balls, he was subdued.
Yeah, it still makes my case.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been in situations that require quick thinking and putting your own life at risk, and never once considered my own safety, it's how I was raised, to be a man first.

So we are ignoring the fact that Patricia Maisch both grabbed his loaded clip, and also jumped on top of him. Got it.

Was she raised as a man?
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 21, 2012, 06:59:57 AM
Quote from: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 06:51:51 AM
So we are ignoring the fact that Patricia Maisch both grabbed his loaded clip, and also jumped on top of him. Got it.

Was she raised as a man?
She joined after the fact, before that, she was cowering and feigning death.
It was a 70+ year old veteran that made the tackle.

Like I said before, I can't judge others based on what I know for a fact I would do, and I have three commendations from local police and sheriff depts. to prove it, all as a civilian.
From subduing two armed robbers in different years, to saving children, it's how I was raised, to be a man first.
And I wasn't even armed.

How many women do you know that were raised to think like a man?
There are clear distinctions in the sex, one that is undeniable.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 07:37:47 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 21, 2012, 06:59:57 AM
She joined after the fact, before that, she was cowering and feigning death.
It was a 70+ year old veteran that made the tackle.

Like I said before, I can't judge others based on what I know for a fact I would do, and I have three commendations from local police and sheriff depts. to prove it, all as a civilian.
From subduing two armed robbers in different years, to saving children, it's how I was raised, to be a man first.
And I wasn't even armed.

How many women do you know that were raised to think like a man?
There are clear distinctions in the sex, one that is undeniable.

Okay. One 70 year old veteran jumped on him. Hardly proof that any man would have done the same.

Back to the school shootings. The author is talking, like having women dominate the teaching profession is something relatively new. It's not at all.

http://www.wakingbear.com/archives/a-history-of-teaching-in-america-as-told-by-those-who-know.html (http://www.wakingbear.com/archives/a-history-of-teaching-in-america-as-told-by-those-who-know.html)

She also presupposes that just because a person is male, that they are mentally and physically prepared to take on a killer with a gun. I disagree. You are prior military, and would probably handle the situation differently than most men. I'm not saying that most men are cowards, but I don't think that most men have a natural instinct to know how to deal with an armed murderer.

I don't. I'd die trying to protect the kids, but if I was able to successfully subdue a guy that was shooting at me, it would be shit luck, not because of a particular skill set.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 12:10:34 PM
....so what about all of the other school shootings where men were present? Columbine actually had armed staff. The idea that it was the lack of men present that contributed to the killings doesn't hold water.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 21, 2012, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 07:37:47 AM
Okay. One 70 year old veteran jumped on him. Hardly proof that any man would have done the same.

Back to the school shootings. The author is talking, like having women dominate the teaching profession is something relatively new. It's not at all.

http://www.wakingbear.com/archives/a-history-of-teaching-in-america-as-told-by-those-who-know.html (http://www.wakingbear.com/archives/a-history-of-teaching-in-america-as-told-by-those-who-know.html)

She also presupposes that just because a person is male, that they are mentally and physically prepared to take on a killer with a gun. I disagree. You are prior military, and would probably handle the situation differently than most men. I'm not saying that most men are cowards, but I don't think that most men have a natural instinct to know how to deal with an armed murderer.

I don't. I'd die trying to protect the kids, but if I was able to successfully subdue a guy that was shooting at me, it would be shit luck, not because of a particular skill set.
So the fact that one old man stepped up and did what is expected of all men, isn't proof?
I give up, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 12:59:20 PM
...shouldn't we be figuring out how to keep people from trying to shoot at children, rather than militarizing our schools?
Common sense would suggest that if someone is doing something bad, the goal should be to stop them rather than everyone arming themselves in response.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: taxed on December 21, 2012, 01:04:49 PM
Quote from: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 12:59:20 PM
...shouldn't we be figuring out how to keep people from trying to shoot at children, rather than militarizing our schools?
Common sense would suggest that if someone is doing something bad, the goal should be to stop them rather than everyone arming themselves in response.

Common sense says that if these shootings keep happening in gun ban zones, and these shootings seem to only be thwarted by someone who is carrying, then the more people who carry, the less of these shootings.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 21, 2012, 01:13:46 PM
Quote from: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 12:59:20 PM
...shouldn't we be figuring out how to keep people from trying to shoot at children, rather than militarizing our schools?
Common sense would suggest that if someone is doing something bad, the goal should be to stop them rather than everyone arming themselves in response.
It's kind of ironic, I grew up in Sacramento, and all school cops were armed and we didn't have any shootings.
That was in the 50s, 60s and early 70s, and now they aren't allowed to carry.
And yes, now shootings are occurring on campus.

I think something is bassackwards.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 21, 2012, 12:37:17 PM
So the fact that one old man stepped up and did what is expected of all men, isn't proof?
I give up, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

What's the disagreement again? I thought it was about the article.

Charlotte says that women and children are sitting ducks for mass killings, and that the presence of a man probably would have stopped it. That's complete nonsense. Everybody is a sitting duck.

In almost all of these whacko shootings, men are around. None of them turn out well. My only point is, that I don't think that the majority of unarmed men have some kind of innate ability to take down armed murderers that are shooting at them, just because they happen to be male.

Next time you're out in public, look around at the average men that are around. Would you trust your life to them?

I'll take my chances with a trained and armed woman, over an unarmed man in one of these situations.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: taxed on December 21, 2012, 01:04:49 PM
Common sense says that if these shootings keep happening in gun ban zones, and these shootings seem to only be thwarted by someone who is carrying, then the more people who carry, the less of these shootings.
I would contend that the most effective and safest approach would be to address the issues behind gun violence, rather than the guns themselves.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: taxed on December 21, 2012, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 01:39:52 PM
I would contend that the most effective and safest approach would be to address the issues behind gun violence, rather than the guns themselves.

They have no fear.  Install the fear in these people, and it will become less frequent.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: taxed on December 21, 2012, 01:52:27 PM
They have no fear.  Install the fear in these people, and it will become less frequent.
Y'know, it's an interesting thing...I think it comes down to a choice between fear and love. Fear, as a driving factor, is just not as thorough a defense as love. I know that sounds simplistic; let me explain.
A "love" approach would be to put energy and funds into actively treating mental illness. Every single school shooter must, by definition, START with mental illness. No sane person guns down children.  Caring for the mentally ill would help reduce many issues; gun violence, drug addiction, poverty, etc. That's not rhetoric - countries that have a comprehensive approach to mental illness and substance abuse have lower crime rates in general.
A "fear" approach is more concerned with defensive or punitive action. Instead of treating the disease, the symptoms are masked with more guns.
In the long term, I simply prefer the first option.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Darth Fife on December 21, 2012, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 02:32:21 PM
Y'know, it's an interesting thing...I think it comes down to a choice between fear and love. Fear, as a driving factor, is just not as thorough a defense as love. I know that sounds simplistic; let me explain.
A "love" approach would be to put energy and funds into actively treating mental illness. Every single school shooter must, by definition, START with mental illness. No sane person guns down children.  Caring for the mentally ill would help reduce many issues; gun violence, drug addiction, poverty, etc. That's not rhetoric - countries that have a comprehensive approach to mental illness and substance abuse have lower crime rates in general.
A "fear" approach is more concerned with defensive or punitive action. Instead of treating the disease, the symptoms are masked with more guns.
In the long term, I simply prefer the first option.

Every single school shooter was also on some kind of anti-depressant or psychotropic drug - maybe if we didn't drug our children at the drop of a hat... :rolleyes:

Just sayin'...
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: thefirebrand on December 21, 2012, 02:43:49 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 21, 2012, 02:38:21 PM
Every single school shooter was also on some kind of anti-depressant or psychotropic drug - maybe if we didn't drug our children at the drop of a hat... :rolleyes:

Just sayin'...
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. Part of the issue in the mental healthcare world is that doctors are being pressured by pharma companies to pass out drugs like they're candy. More time should be spent on addressing root causes of mental illness, as well as more focus on behavioral/cognitive therapy.  As it is, children are being given antidepressants and told to shut up because everything is just fine.
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: Solar on December 21, 2012, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 01:33:44 PM
What's the disagreement again? I thought it was about the article.

Charlotte says that women and children are sitting ducks for mass killings, and that the presence of a man probably would have stopped it. That's complete nonsense. Everybody is a sitting duck.

In almost all of these whacko shootings, men are around. None of them turn out well. My only point is, that I don't think that the majority of unarmed men have some kind of innate ability to take down armed murderers that are shooting at them, just because they happen to be male.

Next time you're out in public, look around at the average men that are around. Would you trust your life to them?

I'll take my chances with a trained and armed woman, over an unarmed man in one of these situations.
Who said anything about armed woman, where in the Hell did that come from?
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: kramarat on December 21, 2012, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 21, 2012, 02:45:49 PM
Who said anything about armed woman, where in the Hell did that come from?

That came from me. The author suggested that a janitor with a bucket could have stopped it. I'm suggesting that if one or more of the women were trained and armed, they would have stopped it better. No man needed. :smile:
Title: Re: Top Conservative Publication: Shooting Occurred Because Women Ran The School
Post by: keyboarder on December 22, 2012, 01:29:00 PM
Ta Da!  I don't have them often but here goes and it's just my brain backfiring from my other end I guess but one idea is as good as another. 

I haven't seen any mention of the pool of already trained men and women that we already have that could easily fill the openings for school safety resource peeps.  The men and women returning home from service could fill some if not most of these spots.  Don't get me wrong, each and every one of them would have to undergo a mental evaluation because let's face it, war changes people-much like this school tragedy has changed the lives of those that witnessed it.  We also have already retired service men and women that might like extra money in their retirement.  If states would offer a good enough program for these people, there shouldn't be a lot of vacancies.    It certainly would bring the unemployment rate down a bit.  They wouldn't have to wear their combat garb or salute or any of the stuff they were accustomed to doing in the military, but they certainly would be able to handle situations that might arise toward terrorism.  They would be professional, they are trained to their jobs the best that anyone can be trained.  Most of this would already be done for the schools. 

Schools could also look into getting the ballistic types of glass for schools.  My grands have attended schools here where we live and I can guarantee you that I can walk into this one particular school, a middle school, and sign my grands out without so much as a state ID to do it but I always offer them my SC dr Lic (they don't require it).  At one point in time, they started requiring ID to pick your grands up from school.  Don't know what happened but that got stopped.  I was horrified at the apathy of the school.  They have school sign out for people that the parent's designate but my son allows only the grandparents to pick up his kids.  When I pick them up, I put their name down, time in and time out, and "grandma" for who's picking them up.  Duh!  There's another set of grandparents but they aren't allowed.  This could create a problem.  I'm waiting on that one too.   :popcorn: