The only real blockade at this point is energy storage.
Once we break that barrier, the sky is the limit. (no pun intended)

Energy storage has always been the Achilles heal in any mechanized project.
A major breakthrough in battery eg. weight vs capacity, or rather energy storage will be bigger then the invention of the PC.
I just hope it happens within the next 20 years, so I can take advantage of it myself.

Once weight is no longer a factor, life will change dramatically once again.

Energy storage is only a problem if you want to go any distance. A flight as short as that hoaxer's would be enough for a lot of people and if you can do that you can fly for ten or fifteen minutes.

No, the problems are in control, articulation and refining the designs to the point that they're light enough but strong enough and with all the muscle-amplification hardware necessary. We're getting close to that point although I don't think we're really there yet meaning I don't think it's just a matter of integrating existing hardware into an ornithopter. There's still development necessary in some areas like very powerful, lightweight, efficient servos at least and maybe in materials as well.

But who knows, this hoax might be just what some folks with the resources and expertise need to do a non-manned proof-of-concept model. I think the computing power's there which was, I believe, always the real holdup.

Quote from: arpad on March 23, 2012, 09:48:18 AM
Energy storage is only a problem if you want to go any distance. A flight as short as that hoaxer's would be enough for a lot of people and if you can do that you can fly for ten or fifteen minutes.

No, the problems are in control, articulation and refining the designs to the point that they're light enough but strong enough and with all the muscle-amplification hardware necessary. We're getting close to that point although I don't think we're really there yet meaning I don't think it's just a matter of integrating existing hardware into an ornithopter. There's still development necessary in some areas like very powerful, lightweight, efficient servos at least and maybe in materials as well.

But who knows, this hoax might be just what some folks with the resources and expertise need to do a non-manned proof-of-concept model. I think the computing power's there which was, I believe, always the real holdup.

But you're assuming what he did is feasible.
In order to lift a man into flight, you still need the s=assistance of some source of power.

If the barrier of weight in batteries were to be broken and removed, this is completely feasible, until then, man will have to be complacent with hang gliders and gas powered planes.
There is the exception of a solar plane, but it requires constant direct Sunlight.

Quote from: Solar on March 22, 2012, 07:11:46 AM
Sorry, I wasn't ignoring them, I just have first hand experience in the area from hang gliding.
It finally dawned on me as to what is wrong with the video.

His legs, they are roughly half the body weight, yet they extend back as if they were weightless.
In a real world situation, the wings would need to be located over the balance point, somewhere around the waist, yet the wings are over his shoulders.
Why aren't his legs dangling?
Truth is, if physics were correct, his legs would still be dangling and he would simply stall and never get off the ground.

Then there is also this little screw up in the video.

That shadow cast on his legs, cast onto the front, while his legs are still behind?

Quote from: taxed on March 23, 2012, 11:57:13 AM
That shadow cast on his legs, cast onto the front, while his legs are still behind?

Yep, it was well done, that is, until you scrutinize it.
He finally admitted it was a hoax.

Quote from: Solar on March 23, 2012, 10:09:04 AM
But you're assuming what he did is feasible.
In order to lift a man into flight, you still need the s=assistance of some source of power.

If the barrier of weight in batteries were to be broken and removed, this is completely feasible, until then, man will have to be complacent with hang gliders and gas powered planes.
There is the exception of a solar plane, but it requires constant direct Sunlight.

Of course what he did is feasible; it's already been done - example - mechanically and of course birds and bats manage flapping-wing flight all the time.

As for for the use of electric power in aircraft, that's been around since at least the 1970's - link - and batteries don't have to improve at all if you're satisfied to take a loop or two around the field. But an ornithopter that approximates the subtle wing-shaping and movements of a bird, and gains the efficiency advantages, that hasn't been done yet. I was kind of hoping that this guy had managed the trick. Oh well.

Oh yeah, one electrically-powered ornithopter that just popped into my head the Quetzalcoatlus Northropi 1/2 scale RC electrically-powered ornithopter.

Anyway, man-carrying, real wing-flapping strap-on flying rigs aren't happening this week.

Quote from: arpad on March 23, 2012, 08:48:04 PM
Of course what he did is feasible; it's already been done - example - mechanically and of course birds and bats manage flapping-wing flight all the time.

As for for the use of electric power in aircraft, that's been around since at least the 1970's - link - and batteries don't have to improve at all if you're satisfied to take a loop or two around the field. But an ornithopter that approximates the subtle wing-shaping and movements of a bird, and gains the efficiency advantages, that hasn't been done yet. I was kind of hoping that this guy had managed the trick. Oh well.

Oh yeah, one electrically-powered ornithopter that just popped into my head the Quetzalcoatlus Northropi 1/2 scale RC electrically-powered ornithopter.

Anyway, man-carrying, real wing-flapping strap-on flying rigs aren't happening this week.

Apples to oranges.
Were talking about man flying like a bird, the plane has been around since the Wright bros.
Of course its possible to build a machine that mimics the flight of the bird using a gas powered engine with a 120' wing span.
To do what this guy did is ludicrous and impossible with todays technology.
If this were to succeed based on todays technology, he would need to pack an engine, in turn adding to overall weight, which would force a larger scale platform.

Which is why I say until the weight issue is broken with batteries, it will never happen.
He still needs an external source of power.

I don't know what "apples to oranges" refers too since I provided links to successful ornithopters, proving that's already been done (and not with a 120 foot wingspan), and to electrically-powered aircraft so that's been done and even to a successful, electrically-powered ornithopter albeit not man-carrying. So why is it simply impossible to scale up an electrically-powered ornithopter?

Since it's so obviously not impossible the only conclusion I can draw is that I'm an involuntary participant in a pissing contest.

Quote from: arpad on March 24, 2012, 08:29:03 AM
I don't know what "apples to oranges" refers too since I provided links to successful ornithopters, proving that's already been done (and not with a 120 foot wingspan), and to electrically-powered aircraft so that's been done and even to a successful, electrically-powered ornithopter albeit not man-carrying. So why is it simply impossible to scale up an electrically-powered ornithopter?

Since it's so obviously not impossible the only conclusion I can draw is that I'm an involuntary participant in a pissing contest.

No, you asserted that the video was possibly real, I said it wasn't based on scale.
That is the apples to oranges.
When the ability to shrink a power source down, then and only then, will scale match that of a bird.

I said, its possible to replicate bird flight, that is not in question, its the scale as to which I contend is not a possibility.
Body size versus wing span, not mass, but area versus wingspan, which is what made this an obvious hoax.