QuoteNothing is supposed to move faster than light, at least according to Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity: The famous E (equals) mc2 equation. That stands for energy equals mass times the speed of light squared.

But neutrinos — one of the strangest well-known particles in physics — have now been observed smashing past this cosmic speed barrier of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44629271/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/astounding-discovery-faster-than-light-particle/?gt1=43001
They're asking independent scientists to verify the findings. There are other questions as well, but if true, this could rewrite the laws of physics.  :o

I remember hearing about this more than 30 years ago, I thought they had settled it then?

The only faster then light particles you could have heard about thirty years ago were theoretical particles called "tachyons".

No one's ever detected them and I don't believe there's much serious effort going into detecting them. This is different. This is a beam of neutrinos which aren't theoretical. On the other hand, they're not supposed to go faster then the speed of light so there's the rub.

My guess is that it's experimental error although the folks involved are at the top of their field and have serious resources. So, they've got a lot to lose and a lot of resources to help make sure they don't screw up. I guess we'll just have to wait but the high likelihood is that it's not something new and exciting.

Quote from: arpad on September 24, 2011, 08:25:26 PM
The only faster then light particles you could have heard about thirty years ago were theoretical particles called "tachyons".

No one's ever detected them and I don't believe there's much serious effort going into detecting them. This is different. This is a beam of neutrinos which aren't theoretical. On the other hand, they're not supposed to go faster then the speed of light so there's the rub.

My guess is that it's experimental error although the folks involved are at the top of their field and have serious resources. So, they've got a lot to lose and a lot of resources to help make sure they don't screw up. I guess we'll just have to wait but the high likelihood is that it's not something new and exciting.

Nope, I remember it quite well, but it wasn't proven, just hypothesizing, something to do with the fact that they can travel through solid objects.
Its been a longtime ago, but I remember reading about it in the library in a science mag, which would put it around 1979 or 80.

Well neutrinos can sure as heck go through matter. I can't remember the exact percentage that would be stopped by 100 million miles of lead but I do remember it's not 100%.

If those neutrinos really were going faster then light it would very seriously major stuff. My money's still on experimental error.

Quote from: arpad on September 24, 2011, 09:30:47 PM
Well neutrinos can sure as heck go through matter. I can't remember the exact percentage that would be stopped by 100 million miles of lead but I do remember it's not 100%.

If those neutrinos really were going faster then light it would very seriously major stuff. My money's still on experimental error.

Yeah, I have no idea, the theory is beyond my expertise since I never got beyond ninth grade math due to dyslexia. :-[
But I still love this stuff and try and follow all ground breaking material, which is why I remember hearing about it.

As to whether it breaks the laws of physics as we know them, is yet to be seen.

I saw the article.  They act like this contracts Einstein's theory of relativity, which doesn't quite say that "nothing travels faster than the speed of light."  I believe it is a little more specific to say that nothing can travel at the speed of light.

Quote from: MFA on September 25, 2011, 07:26:11 PM
I saw the article.  They act like this contracts Einstein's theory of relativity, which doesn't quite say that "nothing travels faster than the speed of light."  I believe it is a little more specific to say that nothing can travel at the speed of light.

Good point MFA, and neutrinos fall in the category of light energy, so no laws have been broken.
Everybody out of jail... :))

Quote from: MFA on September 25, 2011, 07:26:11 PM
I saw the article.  They act like this contracts Einstein's theory of relativity, which doesn't quite say that "nothing travels faster than the speed of light."  I believe it is a little more specific to say that nothing can travel at the speed of light.

Not quite. Nothing can be accelerated to the speed of light.

Accelerating an object makes its mass increase. The greater the mass the more energy is required to make it accelerate.

It's not a linear function so the amount of energy increases drastically as you get close to the speed of light and it would require an infinite amount of energy to make it that last, little bit to achieve the speed of light.

Weirdly enough, there's no reason why, theoretically, there couldn't be particles that increase in mass as they're decelerated to the speed of light. That's the famous "tachyon" of lots of cheesy science fiction movies.

If you figure out how to prove the existence of the tachyon there's an outfit in Norway that'd like to have a word with you though.

Yes, that's more precise than what I said.

Fermilab is going to try to confirm/disprove the faster-then-light neutrinos detected at CERN - link.

My money's on experimental error but as they say in horse racing, every now and then the Kentucky Derby's won by a horse out of Texas by truck.

Quote from: arpad on October 01, 2011, 11:59:55 AM
Accelerating an object makes its mass increase.

Um, doesn't accelerating a mass make its weight increase?

No, its mass.

Quote from: arpad on October 09, 2011, 07:21:23 PM
Fermilab is going to try to confirm/disprove the faster-then-light neutrinos detected at CERN - link.

My money's on experimental error but as they say in horse racing, every now and then the Kentucky Derby's won by a horse out of Texas by truck.

2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-57327392/2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles/

Quote from: Solar on November 19, 2011, 08:27:23 AM
2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-57327392/2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles/

Hmmm...I don't think Mr Einstein will be turning over in his grave over this.   :))