Author Topic: New Battery Tech Coming Soon  (Read 237 times)

Offline Solar

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New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« on: September 26, 2017, 05:15:10 PM »
One of those is Solid State batteries. But what I find more interesting is rechargeable alkaline batteries.

Alkaline batteries have been a staple energy source for decades, but their potential has been capped by their chemical properties.

Notably, alkaline batteries cannot be recharged, which means their application is often limited to single uses in small devices such as flashlights and remote controls.

An alkaline battery finding its way to an electric car has been viewed as all but impossible, while lithium-ion batteries have become the industry standard.

However, a startup company says it has unlocked the secret to safer, more powerful alkaline batteries with a solid-state variant it suggests holds potential to revolutionize the industry.

Battery start-up Ionic says it has developed a solid-state alkaline battery that can be recharged hundreds of times, according to The New York Times, and does not carry the combustion risks of some lithium-ion battery chemistries.

Prototype units of the new alkaline battery have been recharged up to 400 times, Ionic says, but the company believes it can triple this figure with further effort.

2014 Honda Accord Hybrid battery pack2014 Honda Accord Hybrid battery pack
If the technology and engineering proves effective, a second practical battery chemistry might have large effects on multiple industries—including the automotive arena.

Current lithium-ion batteries are expensive, despite the drop in cost over time, and use various metals—nickel and cobalt are two—that can be expensive and whose mining is often anything but clean.

At present, Ionic's prototype batteries weigh more than a traditional lithium-ion unit of the same energy capacity, but they're made from zinc and manganese, which are less expensive and more abundant than, say, cobalt.

Save for the weight penalty, then, Ionic's batteries offer potential cost savings and raw-material benefits.

Though it gave few details, the company also noted that aluminum is a possible raw material to replace zinc in the future, despite its tendency to corrode.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112029_better-alkaline-batteries-made-rechargeable-to-power-electric-cars

Solid State

http://www2.technologyreview.com/news/423685/solid-state-batteries/
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 05:28:10 AM »
IMO... batteries become MORE dangerous as more energy is concentrated into them.  I think their use as a source of power for a vehicle is limited, the best they'll ever do is a hybrid, like an ultra capacitor - which is a better short term storage device, but potentially more dangerous.  The problem with electrical storage devices, *how* do you dissipate a tremendous amount of stored energy *safely*?  Gasoline, Diesel, coal, has several options.  Spread it out, wet it down, displace the oxygen, cool it down, absorb it with kitty litter - several ways to make it easy to remove from an accident scene, simply & safely.   

Batteries create energy via chemical reaction which does not need oxygen, and the chemical(s) are a very hazardous solid.  How do you separate the two chemicals safely to prevent further reaction, spray it with water?   What if an electric car smashes into a gas car - and both start leaking / sparking away ... you get the idea.  Gas or Diesel is so *easy* to refill/recharge safely, compared to electric - and it can store for a long time too boot.

Just trying to imagine a hurricane ravaged area, without electricity, sending out the call for "batteries" instead of "diesel" & "gasoline".... 
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Solar

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Re: New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 06:00:30 AM »
IMO... batteries become MORE dangerous as more energy is concentrated into them.  I think their use as a source of power for a vehicle is limited, the best they'll ever do is a hybrid, like an ultra capacitor - which is a better short term storage device, but potentially more dangerous.  The problem with electrical storage devices, *how* do you dissipate a tremendous amount of stored energy *safely*?  Gasoline, Diesel, coal, has several options.  Spread it out, wet it down, displace the oxygen, cool it down, absorb it with kitty litter - several ways to make it easy to remove from an accident scene, simply & safely.   

Batteries create energy via chemical reaction which does not need oxygen, and the chemical(s) are a very hazardous solid.  How do you separate the two chemicals safely to prevent further reaction, spray it with water?   What if an electric car smashes into a gas car - and both start leaking / sparking away ... you get the idea.  Gas or Diesel is so *easy* to refill/recharge safely, compared to electric - and it can store for a long time too boot.

Just trying to imagine a hurricane ravaged area, without electricity, sending out the call for "batteries" instead of "diesel" & "gasoline"....
Cars aside, this solid state tech holds great promise over current disposable alkaline.
No liquid electrolyte is used, rather a type of polymer embedded with carbon, (I think I remembered that correctly)?

Watch the video, smart lady owns the company, explains some of the things that can be achieved by removing liquid electrolyte. From corrosion to heat issues and explosions to other unnecessary components such as cooling fans and computers to control onboard heat.
But just imagine, a flashlight with the power of a car headlight the size of a pack of cigs and close to the same weight, or pocket heating elements for cold weather work lasting all day, and rechargable, to boot.

That's what's just around the corner. I touted LED lights over a decade ago and no one believed me then either. :biggrin:
Toyota will have a solid state car battery in 2020 as will other companies trying to vie for that fabled position of standardization all other companies will be forced to follow. Think Edison light socket we still use today, or the 12VDC cig lighter outlet now adapted for all 12V electronics, a bad design from the start, but it was only meant to accommodate a heating element originally.

Point being, this tech is about to pounce the market and the best and cheapest design will win the top honors that all tech will follow (patent Gold), even if it's not the ultimate best, cost and weight will win in the end and Li battery tech will more than likely die a quick death, something Tesla sunk most of his fortune into.

I just had two more Li Dewalt batteries fail, and at $100.0 a pop, I'm going back to NiCaD at half the price and 4 times the life and twice the weight, still a better deal.
Oh, and this new battery tech? Doesn't require a chip or temp sensor like a lot of Li batteries do, which is almost always the cause of failure or poor performance.
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 03:41:13 PM »
Just a few years ago, talking with Luna Innovations, they were pioneering nano-carbon-tubes.   Something about a super-conductor at a couple of molecule thickness.   Part of the research reasoning was because processors (the actual chips), were near the theoretical limit of speed.  Something about replacing the semiconductor material with a super conductive carbon.  I'd love to try it for RF antennas!

Rather than chase battery technology, I wonder if ultra-capacitors would fit the bill, better for cars in particular.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Solar

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Re: New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 04:50:52 PM »
Just a few years ago, talking with Luna Innovations, they were pioneering nano-carbon-tubes.   Something about a super-conductor at a couple of molecule thickness.   Part of the research reasoning was because processors (the actual chips), were near the theoretical limit of speed.  Something about replacing the semiconductor material with a super conductive carbon.  I'd love to try it for RF antennas!

Rather than chase battery technology, I wonder if ultra-capacitors would fit the bill, better for cars in particular.
There's a couple on this page, top third to the right, and another further down, though a bit pricey.
Problem is, they need to be used daily, and you'll more than likely need a small 12v battery for the electronics as a buffer and to assure the radio holds its time and stations.\

http://www.replacementenginepartsstore.com/maxwell.html
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Offline Hoofer

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Re: New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2017, 09:56:46 AM »
There's a couple on this page, top third to the right, and another further down, though a bit pricey.
Problem is, they need to be used daily, and you'll more than likely need a small 12v battery for the electronics as a buffer and to assure the radio holds its time and stations.\

http://www.replacementenginepartsstore.com/maxwell.html

http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors
This is a better link.   I've seen these in action, it's quite remarkable how much power, heavy or light load you can pull out of them.    Better than a battery, they can recharge quickly, and accommodate varying loads easily.
All animals are created equal; Some just take longer to cook.   Survival is keeping an eye on those around you...

Offline Solar

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Re: New Battery Tech Coming Soon
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 10:40:04 AM »
http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors
This is a better link.   I've seen these in action, it's quite remarkable how much power, heavy or light load you can pull out of them.    Better than a battery, they can recharge quickly, and accommodate varying loads easily.
That product is just one of many on the market, but it has great potential. For example, electric bikes that uses regenerative braking, you literally could save your battery in that the capacitor gives up the energy first, for the load start that taxes the main battery, saving the cruising power once you're rolling.
I know they've used them in race cars for decades.
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