Quote from: JTA on May 02, 2014, 06:40:18 PM
1) Was not pretty code :(. Maybe it didn't take quite two hours but it felt like eternity.

JS can indeed get pretty verbose.

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2) Hanful of proframs I use the most:

Media Monkey
TagScanner
Steam
Eclipse
Zune (I have since upgraded to an Ipod. I still think Zune was pretty bad ass though. The controls were better than the iPod IMO).

Yeah, I could probably get them on Linux. But I will miss the pretty Windows interface.

Fun fact: When I installed Linux on my other laptop I almost got it looking exactly like Windows 7. Almost.

How do you like it?

Quote from: taxed on May 02, 2014, 10:32:39 PM
JS can indeed get pretty verbose.
How do you like it?

It suits my needs well enough. I've got it customized bigtime and use it for everything - SVN (Subclipse), Java, Javascript. I also use it with Google App Engine when I'm working on my Java based web apps. I gotta hand it to google, GAE is pretty bad ass. It's super easy to test and deploy your applications once you set up a GAE project in eclipse.

Quote from: JTA on May 03, 2014, 06:26:02 AM
It suits my needs well enough. I've got it customized bigtime and use it for everything - SVN (Subclipse),

You don't use git??

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Java,

Tell me this is just because your job makes you write in this...

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Javascript. I also use it with Google App Engine when I'm working on my Java based web apps. I gotta hand it to google, GAE is pretty bad ass. It's super easy to test and deploy your applications once you set up a GAE project in eclipse.

As much as I hate google, their development side is pretty sweet.

Quit using Java.. it's bad for your health.

Quote from: taxed on May 03, 2014, 05:18:37 PM
You don't use git??
Tell me this is just because your job makes you write in this...
As much as I hate google, their development side is pretty sweet.

Quit using Java.. it's bad for your health.

Why the hate for Java?

Quote from: JTA on May 04, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
Why the hate for Java?

It's not really necessary anymore for one, and it's pretty much an open wound.

Summary: As OS vendors get better about patching their own flaws, malware authors are increasingly turning to third-party code to get their dirty work done, and Java is high on the list. It's easy to say, "Just don't use Java," but what if a program you use requires it? I've got a list of problem apps and solutions.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/how-big-a-security-risk-is-java-can-you-really-quit-using-it/4749

Quote from: Solar on May 04, 2014, 09:09:36 AM
It's not really necessary anymore for one, and it's pretty much an open wound.

Summary: As OS vendors get better about patching their own flaws, malware authors are increasingly turning to third-party code to get their dirty work done, and Java is high on the list. It's easy to say, "Just don't use Java," but what if a program you use requires it? I've got a list of problem apps and solutions.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/how-big-a-security-risk-is-java-can-you-really-quit-using-it/4749

Yeah agreed. Using a client side app written in Java is a pain in the ass and a waste of time. You're right, they aren't necessary anymore. I avoid them at all costs. For large scale web applications though, J2EE isn;t all that bad and is still relevant. The client never knows Java is being used since everything executes on the server. It's irrelevant to them.

Quote from: Solar on May 04, 2014, 09:09:36 AM
It's not really necessary anymore for one, and it's pretty much an open wound.

Summary: As OS vendors get better about patching their own flaws, malware authors are increasingly turning to third-party code to get their dirty work done, and Java is high on the list. It's easy to say, "Just don't use Java," but what if a program you use requires it? I've got a list of problem apps and solutions.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/how-big-a-security-risk-is-java-can-you-really-quit-using-it/4749

I managed to get through Page 1 of the comments attached to this item and am now wondering how safe people are if they simply use Mozilla and NoScript to block sites from launching any Java application the PC user does not want and authorize. World of Warcraft for example requires Java but NoScript seems to work well for my wife. Is her PC all that safe behind just this one wall of protection?

Quote from: JTA on May 04, 2014, 09:27:57 AM
Yeah agreed. Using a client side app written in Java is a pain in the ass and a waste of time. You're right, they aren't necessary anymore. I avoid them at all costs. For large scale web applications though, J2EE isn;t all that bad and is still relevant. The client never knows Java is being used since everything executes on the server. It's irrelevant to them.

That sounds relatively safe.

Quote from: quiller on May 04, 2014, 09:41:39 AM
I managed to get through Page 1 of the comments attached to this item and am now wondering how safe people are if they simply use Mozilla and NoScript to block sites from launching any Java application the PC user does not want and authorize. World of Warcraft for example requires Java but NoScript seems to work well for my wife. Is her PC all that safe behind just this one wall of protection?

If it does what they claim, I guess shes safe?

Quote from: Solar on May 04, 2014, 10:01:54 AM
If it does what they claim, I guess shes safe?

Love that confidence. 

Quote from: quiller on May 04, 2014, 10:14:19 AM
Love that confidence. 

I stand behind that decisive and definite "Maybe" that shes safe. 

Quote from: JTA on May 04, 2014, 08:46:45 AM
Why the hate for Java?

Hate is too kind of a word.  It is the worst language ever slapped together, and makes non-programmers think they know what they're doing.  I don't even consider it a real programming language in reality.  The worst decisions I have ever made in my life have been listening and empowering Java programmers.  I have lost too much money and suffered too much emotional trauma from Java-based projects.  I've never written an application in Java, but I have been on the "all hands on deck" side of trying to figure critical problems out that the "smart" Java programmers should have answers to but never could, because I went against my gut and trusted experienced Java developers.

Get out while you can, JTA, and PLEASE learn a real programming language.  Java is like a cult, and right now, even though I could point out that it's taking all your money and banging your 10 year old daughter, you would fight me tooth and nail as to why it's a good language.  Java is NOT programming.  When someone tells me they are a Java developer, I automatically know they are clueless about software engineering and would be useless on any meaningful project.

I can tell you're young, so I'm not harping on you as much as I am the sleaze who have indoctrinated you into the Java cult and make you think it's OK.  Just please make me feel better and tell/lie to me that you're learning other languages.  If you said C++, I'd cringe, then vomit, but I could live with it.  If you said Python, I would give you a big hug and kiss.

Quote from: Solar on May 04, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
That sounds relatively safe.

It's like that with a lot of web applications. For the layman, they'll never know whether an application is running PHP, Java, .NET, Python, etc.. unless they look at the page suffix and know what it means, i.e.index.php, index.jsp, index.apsx, etc.. Sometimes that may not even be visible if the application is using URL mapping. You can do this with Java by using servlets instead of lopping everything into JSPs (which is basically the page served to the user after stuff has been transformed into HTML that a web browser can display). Or with .NET I think you can do this with their MVC.

...and JTA, I'm really not harping on you.  I'm really happy you're a productive person in society with actual skill, and are doing good things.  It's all a learning experience, and you're doing fine I'm quite certain.  You're not some clueless unskilled lib shoveling fries or hiding in school.  You're in the real world, so I'm totally a fan of yours, fyi.

Quote from: taxed on May 04, 2014, 10:55:49 AM
Hate is too kind of a word.  It is the worst language ever slapped together, and makes non-programmers think they know what they're doing.  I don't even consider it a real programming language in reality.  The worst decisions I have ever made in my life have been listening and empowering Java programmers.  I have lost too much money and suffered too much emotional trauma from Java-based projects.  I've never written an application in Java, but I have been on the "all hands on deck" side of trying to figure critical problems out that the "smart" Java programmers should have answers to but never could, because I went against my gut and trusted experienced Java developers.

Get out while you can, JTA, and PLEASE learn a real programming language.  Java is like a cult, and right now, even though I could point out that it's taking all your money and banging your 10 year old daughter, you would fight me tooth and nail as to why it's a good language.  Java is NOT programming.  When someone tells me they are a Java developer, I automatically know they are clueless about software engineering and would be useless on any meaningful project. Follow the money...

I can tell you're young, so I'm not harping on you as much as I am the sleaze who have indoctrinated you into the Java cult and make you think it's OK.  Just please make me feel better and tell/lie to me that you're learning other languages.  If you said C++, I'd cringe, then vomit, but I could live with it.  If you said Python, I would give you a big hug and kiss.

Man trust me, you're preaching to the choir. If tomorrow programming in LISP was the next big thing and that's what I needed to know to get paid, I'd be all over it. Those guys who follow a programming language like a cult are probably level 100 wizards that live in their moms basement. I know that makes me sound like a douche, but facts are facts and observations don't lie.

Here's the thing about Java though - it's still in high demand. I still keep tabs on job search sites and still get recruiters contacting me. It still seems like Java, .NET (C# usually), PHP, and Python all dominate the market in about that order. From what I can gather, most large companies (not all of course) that develop enterprise level applications use either Java or .NET.

Why don't you consider Java a real language as opposed to something like Python? Not trying to sound like a Java tool, just genuinely curious is all. If someone is a decent developer, it shouldn't matter what language they code in IMO. If someone is bad at coming up with a solution in one language, they'll do a terrible job in any language since the language itself is secondary to the actual implementation.

Quote..and JTA, I'm really not harping on you.  I'm really happy you're a productive person in society with actual skill, and are doing good things.  It's all a learning experience, and you're doing fine I'm quite certain.  You're not some clueless unskilled lib shoveling fries or hiding in school.  You're in the real world, so I'm totally a fan of yours, fyi.

Much appreciated. 

QuoteJust please make me feel better and tell/lie to me that you're learning other languages.

Definitely. Once you know one learning the basics of others doesn't any time at all. Not gonna lie though, I have not checked out Python yet .

Edit (2) - Been reading up on Python after this discussion, it might be worth checking out. Google App Engine has a Python run time environment, so there we go... I'll just miss my brackets :( ...