snip~
"What we're really worried about facial recognition and identification is secret surveillance at a distance," Calabrese said. "It means that I can identify you and know where you are going in public, I can record and keep that information and you don't know it's happening. I know where you are, I know whether you've just visited a protest rally, I can identify everybody at that protest rally and I can keep records of that. It has a chilling effect."

more @
http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/facial-recognition-technology-raises-privacy-concerns-n676836

I can also just as easily wear a mask, or facial altering gear and that state of the art tech is nothing but a glorified set of binoculars.
Even camouflage mosquito netting and big sunglasses, or a hat and foil lined dust mask can render that crap completely useless, regardless of what they claim.
But then, I live in the forest, what do I care?

Quote from: Solar on November 06, 2016, 12:45:18 PM
I can also just as easily wear a mask, or facial altering gear and that state of the art tech is nothing but a glorified set of binoculars.
Even camouflage mosquito netting and big sunglasses, or a hat and foil lined dust mask can render that crap completely useless, regardless of what they claim.
But then, I live in the forest, what do I care?

You and I both know if it can be invented there a workaround.   

Quote from: walkstall on November 06, 2016, 01:06:21 PM
You and I both know if it can be invented there a workaround.   

Exactly!

They knew who I was, with or without the facial hair!  I just "rang the bell" and they greeted me by legal name!  (we both laughed, yeah, it works).

One of the shops where the coding was/is taking place is pretty close to me.  Funny that they place these super, secretive, high-tech, military engineering firms in places other than where you'd expect to find them.   This joint writes and tests the facial recognition software, programs on PC's and uses a couple of CRAY computers to run it... in an old, converted tobacco warehouse.

Next door, is a well known Nano-technology, military defense contractor.   Not anything like I'd expect, both environments were so "relaxed" once you got inside the door, escorted of course...  I wouldn't mind "coding" in that kind of environment - very easy to focus, seemingly low pressure, quiet, and ... a CRAY... dang!


To really defeat facial recognition, you'd have to change the spacing of your eyes, cheek bones, jaw-line, nose, etc., basically the outline of your face & appendages needs to look like someone else - not the facial color, but the shapes (so they said...).  It's pretty hard to defeat.

Here in Virginia, our photo driver's license & photo ID's is for facial recognition ...   
They want a "blank look" when the picture is taken, no frown nor smile, it's the baseline they want.
Once they have a good baseline pic, it can be colorised, aged, modified, and still matched.

It's too late folks, and not even a face-lift can change it.

If two thirds of your face is obscured, there is no way any pooter is going to match your face among more than 300 million people, it's mathematically impossible, regardless of the claims being made..

Quote from: Solar on November 07, 2016, 08:06:34 AM
If two thirds of your face is obscured, there is no way any pooter is going to match your face among more than 300 million people, it's mathematically impossible, regardless of the claims being made..

Depends on what's being measured, and how many of those portions are visible... to the machine, not just what we can see.
Once they have your baseline measurements, even an obscured face could be reasonably "identified" based on location, recent travel, purchases, etc.

All that disguise stuff is exactly what they're working on, a means of overcoming it.

They have fingerprints, credit history, buying habits, height, eye color, hair color, weight, sex, matched to faces - tomorrow they could be adding even more stuff to your personal profile.  Punkin the Pollster says the degree of depth to those demographic profiles of us is frightening.

Quote from: Hoofer on November 07, 2016, 12:04:58 PM
Depends on what's being measured, and how many of those portions are visible... to the machine, not just what we can see.
Once they have your baseline measurements, even an obscured face could be reasonably "identified" based on location, recent travel, purchases, etc.

All that disguise stuff is exactly what they're working on, a means of overcoming it.

They have fingerprints, credit history, buying habits, height, eye color, hair color, weight, sex, matched to faces - tomorrow they could be adding even more stuff to your personal profile.  Punkin the Pollster says the degree of depth to those demographic profiles of us is frightening.

All true, but if say I was to travel to another city, wear a surgical mask foil lined, oversized leaded sunglasses, (see image below) walk with a stoop and a limp, the system has little to work with.
The key is leaded glass or other state of the art filtering because the iris is more accurate than a fingerprint due to eye color eliminating 60% of the population immediately.
Then there's the issue of gait, that too is recorded along with body language, tics, speed one moves their head, talks with their hands, all used as measures.
Like I said, covering two thirds of the face limits their ability for accuracy and leaving them guessing out of a field of thousands.
It's just a tool which still requires a human to make a final decision in the end.

Quote from: walkstall on November 06, 2016, 01:06:21 PM
You and I both know if it can be invented there a workaround.   

Amen, kemo sabe.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2113176-chinese-tourist-town-uses-face-recognition-as-an-entry-pass/

QuoteBaidu's face-recognition software uses neural networks – a technique inspired by neurons in the brain that helps to recognise complex patterns. The company has trained the software on huge data sets that together total more than 1 billion images of people's faces and says that the system has an accuracy of 99.8 per cent, although this was achieved by examining still images rather than people walking up to a camera.

The software also detects facial movements, so can't be fooled by someone holding up a still image of another person's face.

That's quite interesting, is it comparing facial movements to something on file, or just looking for some kind of movement?   Would a "stone faced look" fool it?

Quoteome airports already have a form of face-recognition software at passport control, but the setup is different. At an airport, you have to present your passport and the software determines whether the person standing in front of the camera matches that identity. But at the gates of Wuzhen, no identification is presented: instead, the software searches a large database for the face staring into the camera.

Compiling a database of faces in this way presents privacy concerns. Lin says the responsibility for storing the data falls to the Wuzhen attraction that uses it, not Baidu.

it's not a one-shot deal, in all likelyhood, the data is stored forever.

QuoteCompanies around the world are building large databases of personal information, with some starting to store biometric information such as fingerprints too. "This will make it easier to log on to your bank, but it will also be more of an issue if the database is hacked," says Li.

If the Wuzhen trial is successful, Baidu hopes to operate similar systems elsewhere, such as at other tourist spots and theme parks. "We want our software to eventually be used by all of the town's visitors, and then in many other places around China," says Lin.

Start small, people say, "meh, it's a theme park or hotel, who cares....", it starts growing into every aspect of life, slowly.  You want to access this area, face the camera.  You want to enter this building, we scan your fingerprint.  These are the systems we would KNOW ABOUT, there are many systems in use which scan us unnoticed.  License plate scanners and a myriad of security cameras.

Here's the problem with waiting for a "workaround".   Everytime there is a "failure" the system "learns" from the mistake and corrects it.  And if you're expecting to see cameras looking at you from every angle and corner, it's really, really easy to hide them, or put them at such a distance away they blend into t he background, going unnoticed.

BTW, darkness of night does not shut down these systems.  I recently installed "starlight cameras" on the farm to alert me to possible Raccoon attacks.  They see in full color 24/7, with barely any stars visible - the images look like someone took them at high noon.

The bottom line is, government should NOT own property.   Where they do own it, expect all kinds of gates, limited access, controlling movement, etc., a "trust no-one" or "Americans against the Government system".  Everyone "owns it" but nobody can access it, a "preserve through decay" mentality.

Quote from: walkstall on November 06, 2016, 09:09:18 AM


snip~
"What we're really worried about facial recognition and identification is secret surveillance at a distance," Calabrese said. "It means that I can identify you and know where you are going in public, I can record and keep that information and you don't know it's happening. I know where you are, I know whether you've just visited a protest rally, I can identify everybody at that protest rally and I can keep records of that. It has a chilling effect."

more @
http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/facial-recognition-technology-raises-privacy-concerns-n676836

As usual, neither the Problem nor the Solution is terribly difficult.

The POLITICS are !