Quote from: Halford9 on September 25, 2012, 11:40:21 AM
anyone who thinks our HC system is the best in the world hasn't been outside of the country.

I have been outside the country many times--At least twice a year to Europe. The English are not satisfied with their system at all.  I read in an English paper the last time I was in London that people are pulling their own teeth because the wait for dental care is so long.  Also, the Nathional Health Service promised to segregate the wards, (Yes, they have wards) by sex, but announced it was not possible.  I didn't understand that problem.  Why not just say, "OK, men over here, women over there?" Canadians who can afford it come over the border to the US for treatment. Anyone who says that health care is better elsewhere truly has never been outside of the country.

I contracted pneumonia while in London and called a doctor to the hotel. He diagnosed pneumonia and prescribed an antibiotic we haven't used for pneumonia in years.  It did keep me alive until I returned to the US and to my own doctor, but had he had the proper antibiotic, I would have been up and around the next day.

Quote from: Charliemyboy on September 26, 2012, 03:42:20 PM
I have been outside the country many times--At least twice a year to Europe. The English are not satisfied with their system at all.  I read in an English paper the last time I was in London that people are pulling their own teeth because the wait for dental care is so long.  Also, the Nathional Health Service promised to segregate the wards, (Yes, they have wards) by sex, but announced it was not possible.  I didn't understand that problem.  Why not just say, "OK, men over here, women over there?" Canadians who can afford it come over the border to the US for treatment. Anyone who says that health care is better elsewhere truly has never been outside of the country.

I contracted pneumonia while in London and called a doctor to the hotel. He diagnosed pneumonia and prescribed an antibiotic we haven't used for pneumonia in years.  It did keep me alive until I returned to the US and to my own doctor, but had he had the proper antibiotic, I would have been up and around the next day.

nonsense. Not from pneumonia.

i don't have any experience with NHS. I was just relating my experience in Germany compared to the US.

the NHS is government run right down to the Dr's working for the government. Besides all you have to do is look at public surveys to see that the British are happy with their health care.

Canadians do not come over to the US. Just the very wealthy ones that don't want to wait for a week for an operation.

Hey, I've got an idea!!!! Lets come up with the happiness factor on the US government run healthcare that already exists. That's right, the VA hospitals and medical system. I'll see if I can find some stats.

Quote from: Halford9 on September 25, 2012, 09:42:55 PM
wait until you need to use your health care and then maybe you'll see what i mean. The insurance company has an incentive to deny you care.  Also...i'm calling BS that $1500 a year gets you an awesome policy. Sounds like you really haven't had to use it yet.

i worked for a multi national firm in Germany and have used Germany's health care system and the system in the U.S. By far Germany's is better. In Germany the employee and employer both pay into the system and you are covered for everything. I have a chronic condition and in Germany i was covered through the employee/employer scheme. You do not get a DR's bill or hospital bill. Everything is covered.  Here in the US i pay three times as much for insurance and i still get bill after bill in the mail. I probably pay about 5 times as much at least per year here for health care and the actual health care is pretty much the same.

Go to the OPM website for Blue Cross.  I have individual coverage.   Look it up.   Those who use it more than me pay the same price.  I can prove my assertions, you can't.

Quote from: republicans2 on September 26, 2012, 04:58:30 PM
Go to the OPM website for Blue Cross.  I have individual coverage.   Look it up.   Those who use it more than me pay the same price.  I can prove my assertions, you can't.

i have individual PPO plan from Blue Cross.  You're delusional if you think it covers everything. Just tell the truth. You haven't had to use it.

Quote from: Halford9 on September 26, 2012, 05:30:46 PM
i have individual PPO plan from Blue Cross.  You're delusional if you think it covers everything. Just tell the truth. You haven't had to use it.

You said it didn't cost $1500 per year.  I told you where to find the info.  And yes, thus far, it has paid for everything.  Tests, minor procedures and appointments.  Paid minus the co-pays.  Are there things that the insurance doesn't cover?  I'm sure.  Just because you can't stay healthy and have had (supposedly) bad luck doesn't mean everyone else will.  Try reading the pamphlet for your insurance before bitching.  It tells you what is covered. 
Here:  My basic plan with Blue Cross.  Kiss my delusional ass:

http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/rates/nonpostalffs2013.pdf

Quote from: Halford9 on September 25, 2012, 09:42:55 PM
wait until you need to use your health care and then maybe you'll see what i mean. The insurance company has an incentive to deny you care.  Also...i'm calling BS that $1500 a year gets you an awesome policy. Sounds like you really haven't had to use it yet.

i worked for a multi national firm in Germany and have used Germany's health care system and the system in the U.S. By far Germany's is better. In Germany the employee and employer both pay into the system and you are covered for everything. I have a chronic condition and in Germany i was covered through the employee/employer scheme. You do not get a DR's bill or hospital bill. Everything is covered.  Here in the US i pay three times as much for insurance and i still get bill after bill in the mail. I probably pay about 5 times as much at least per year here for health care and the actual health care is pretty much the same.

Okay... and isn't Germany several miles farther along the National Bankruptcy Trail than we are? Can you guess why?

What happens when this insane bullshit obsession with universal free health care for all bankrupts the whole damn bunch of us? And you can bet it will. Who pays the piper then?

So we should have a health care system like Germany? Is that it?

Quote from: Halford9 on September 26, 2012, 04:24:04 PM
nonsense. Not from pneumonia.

i don't have any experience with NHS. I was just relating my experience in Germany compared to the US.

the NHS is government run right down to the Dr's working for the government. Besides all you have to do is look at public surveys to see that the British are happy with their health care.

Canadians do not come over to the US. Just the very wealthy ones that don't want to wait for a week for an operation.

Well, now. They might as well be tickled purple with their health care, for all the choice they have. How could you possibly think that "public surveys" taken in a nation where there are NO health care choices AT ALL would come up any different?

What would be the point of being dissatisfied? What would be the solution?

Quote from: tbone0106 on September 26, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
Well, now. They might as well be tickled purple with their health care, for all the choice they have. How could you possibly think that "public surveys" taken in a nation where there are NO health care choices AT ALL would come up any different?

What would be the point of being dissatisfied? What would be the solution?

they do have options. They can go private. Very few of them do.

Quote from: Halford9 on September 28, 2012, 04:40:55 PM
they do have options. They can go private. Very few of them do.

Why do you suppose that is?

Quote from: tbone0106 on September 28, 2012, 04:58:48 PM
Why do you suppose that is?

Gee...  perhaps cost is a factor?

Consider two scenarios.

An NHS-style scenario (Canada is close to this, but not quite there yet) where you have essentially "single-payer" health care insurance.

A free-market scenario where you are free to contract with anyone or no one at all for health care insurance. (U.S. before Obamacare)

In which scenario do you receive:

- More choices?

- Faster service?

- Better doctors?

- The latest diagnostic technology, at a moment's notice?

- A medical/pharma establishment actively advancing the entire field every single day?

Obamacare is about to take the best health care system on the face of the earth and slam it into reverse.

Quote from: Halford9 on September 26, 2012, 04:24:04 PM
nonsense. Not from pneumonia.

i don't have any experience with NHS. I was just relating my experience in Germany compared to the US.

the NHS is government run right down to the Dr's working for the government. Besides all you have to do is look at public surveys to see that the British are happy with their health care.

Canadians do not come over to the US. Just the very wealthy ones that don't want to wait for a week for an operation.

Yes, I would have and it is not nonsense since it is I who have had pneumonia a number of times.  Zythromax knocks it out fast and in a few hours you start feeling much better.  Even with the antibiotic I was given, I flew home in a few days, but would have stayed longer had I had the proper antibiotic.  You don't have a clue what you are talking about.  You obviously have little to no experience with medical care.

I think we should systems. A free market one and a NHS system for Halford and company. I guarantee you Halford and company will be on their deathbed begging for admittance to the free market system.