Author Topic: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?  (Read 2263 times)

Offline Turks

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2013, 08:52:25 AM »
I don't want to get into a heated battle over this since I tend to agree with you 99% of the time.  But I think you're being presumptuous to say your morals are right and everyone else's are wrong.  You frame it in the context of society as a whole rather than on the merits or lack of merit of pot itself.

Please don't get insulted but your last reply demonstrates why people are intolerant of the GOP.  You pretty much say that you're right and there is no leeway and that's the end of the story.  You may not have used those exact words but that's how it reads.

The thing to remember is that it may be the end of the story for you and that's not saying you're wrong but the nation at large doesn't seem to see it your way hence we have state after state legalizing for medicinal purposes and in time it will be for recreational as well since that's what the populace seems to want.

You're insisting you're right but others may not see quite that way. It's just my opinion but legalizing it isn't going to detour the path this nation is already on. 

« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:01:49 AM by Turks »

Online Solar

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2013, 08:59:11 AM »
I don't wnat to get into a heated battle over this since I tend to agree with you 99% of the time.  But I think you're being presumptuous to say your morals are right and everyone else's are wrong.  You frame it in the context of society as a whole rather than on the merits or lack of merit of pot itself.

Please don't get insulted but your last reply demonstrates why people are intolerant of the GOP.  You pretty much say that you're right and there is no leeway and that's the end of the story.  You may not have used those exact words but that's how it reads.

The thing to remember is that it may be the end of the story foir you and that's not saying you're wrong but the nation at large doesn't seem to see it your way hence we have state after state llegalizing for medicinal purposes and in time it will be for recreational as well since that's what the populace seems to want.

You're insisting you're right but others may not see quite that way.
This whole issue is a perfect example of moral relativism. It's also why we are not a Democracy.
But I'll leave it at that, I had hoped people were smart enough to leave well enough alone, but caving in because the squeaky wheel of of kids demanding change without a clue of consequence would be enough to take pause and ask why have societies looked down on drugs in the past.

Let the chips land where they may, who knows, maybe weed will make for a more productive society? :rolleyes:
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline Turks

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2013, 09:04:41 AM »
This whole issue is a perfect example of moral relativism. It's also why we are not a Democracy.
But I'll leave it at that, I had hoped people were smart enough to leave well enough alone, but caving in because the squeaky wheel of of kids demanding change without a clue of consequence would be enough to take pause and ask why have societies looked down on drugs in the past.

Let the chips land where they may, who knows, maybe weed will make for a more productive society? :rolleyes:

Just one last point.  Is it kids or is it those that are  products of the 60s which are far from from kids?  I say it's likely both.  But you're right.  It's best left where it is.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:16:38 AM by Turks »

Online Solar

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2013, 09:06:45 AM »
Just one last point.  Is it kids or is it those that are  products of the 60s which are frpom from kids?  I say it's likely both.  But you're right.  It's best left where it is.
I agree, it's both. It's just not change for the betterment of the country is all.
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Offline raptor5618

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2013, 09:18:05 AM »
Solar maybe it would be for the benefit of this country.  Every Friday and Saturday night our police utilize substantial resources to set up road blocks in hopes of arresting people who are over some arbitrary number in terms of alcohol.  They keep dropping the number so now some, perhaps many are less impaired than others who just worked a long shift or had a fight with their sig other or a whole host of things.  It is really a money making thing so I just wish that they made everyone pay a buck when they leave a bar and be done with it. 

So much police time and effort not to mention our courts and jails for something that does less harm to our productivity than the punishment and enforcement of those laws exerts. 

I do not understand your relative morality point as I am having a problem understanding how morality is even a factor if someone smokes some dope or not.  I see it more as a freedom and liberty issue than a moral issue.  Not being critical of your view as to morality, I just do not understand your basis for considering it a morality issue.
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Online Solar

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2013, 09:22:06 AM »
Solar maybe it would be for the benefit of this country.  Every Friday and Saturday night our police utilize substantial resources to set up road blocks in hopes of arresting people who are over some arbitrary number in terms of alcohol.  They keep dropping the number so now some, perhaps many are less impaired than others who just worked a long shift or had a fight with their sig other or a whole host of things.  It is really a money making thing so I just wish that they made everyone pay a buck when they leave a bar and be done with it. 

So much police time and effort not to mention our courts and jails for something that does less harm to our productivity than the punishment and enforcement of those laws exerts. 

I do not understand your relative morality point as I am having a problem understanding how morality is even a factor if someone smokes some dope or not.  I see it more as a freedom and liberty issue than a moral issue.  Not being critical of your view as to morality, I just do not understand your basis for considering it a morality issue.
I'm just saying it's a slippery slope.
Look up moral relativism, it's what got us into this mess were in today.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline Turks

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2013, 09:28:54 AM »
Solar maybe it would be for the benefit of this country.  Every Friday and Saturday night our police utilize substantial resources to set up road blocks in hopes of arresting people who are over some arbitrary number in terms of alcohol.  They keep dropping the number so now some, perhaps many are less impaired than others who just worked a long shift or had a fight with their sig other or a whole host of things.  It is really a money making thing so I just wish that they made everyone pay a buck when they leave a bar and be done with it. 

So much police time and effort not to mention our courts and jails for something that does less harm to our productivity than the punishment and enforcement of those laws exerts. 

I do not understand your relative morality point as I am having a problem understanding how morality is even a factor if someone smokes some dope or not.  I see it more as a freedom and liberty issue than a moral issue.  Not being critical of your view as to morality, I just do not understand your basis for considering it a morality issue.



I understand Solar's point on morality but I'd just add if we're going to look at it from the perspective of a moral issue there are far worse things lowering our morality than pot.  Just turn on a televison or play a video game.  I'd also offer that many of those that want it legalized are very moral, hard working individuals...not the basement dwelling stoner type.    They just like to relax at the end of the day with a joint as opposed to a beer, a shot, or a glass of wine.


Take this scenario.  You're home enjoying a joint.  No intentions of going out.  A police officer knocks at your door to tell you that your car's alarm is ringing or that someone just side-swipped your car down the street.  Unkown to you, your wife answers the door.  The cop smells pot.  You're screwed.  He can now enter and rest assured you're going to the slammer...at least here in NJ.

Maybe one solution should be it's legal in the confines of one's home.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:37:16 AM by Turks »

Offline mdgiles

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2013, 09:35:20 AM »
With the exception of testing for purity, safety and side effects, I would get government totally out of the drug business.  And should also point out two things. One is that millions of people use drugs, but only a certain percentage ever become addicted to them. The other is that many of the bad effects people associate with drug use, arise from their prohibition, not the drugs themselves. During Prohibition people were dying from bad liquor and gangsters were holding gun battles in the streets with automatic weapons to control the trade. Mass produced beer sucks, but no one has died from it recently. And Budweiser and Miller confine their competition to the advertising arena.
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Offline Turks

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2013, 09:39:50 AM »
http://prescription-drug.addictionblog.org/snorting-ambien/


Q: What happens when you snort Ambien?
A: When you snort ambien you fell a quick (mild) high. The rush will make you dizzy and will impair your vision and judgment. It's easiest to crush the pill down into 2 or 3 lines and snort them a few minutes apart. This eases you into the high.

To be honest, it's not the most pleasant buzz, you spend most of your time wishing you could see straight. Also when the buzz wears off after about 30 minutes or so, you tend to feel a little low, and wanna sleep.



Think about how many American have or can easily get access to this.

Offline kramarat

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2013, 09:52:20 AM »
Hey, I was young once, even pushed a petition drive to legalize weed here in Ca decades ago.
But as I said, I was young, which equates to ignorant dumb ass.

So I ask again, why stop at weed, why not do away with all drug laws, that is, if it'd really about rights and freedoms?
Come on, someone give me a good argument as to why we shouldn't, and don't give me that crap about other drugs are dangerous, because inhibiting reality is what they all have in common, some to a lesser degree, but ALL inhibit reality!

If drugs impairing ones ability to deal with reality, then why stop at weed?

When you were a young, ignorant dumb ass, were you scared of marijuana laws?

Did you stop because of the laws or did you stop because you just outgrew it?

Online Solar

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2013, 10:22:49 AM »
When you were a young, ignorant dumb ass, were you scared of marijuana laws?

Did you stop because of the laws or did you stop because you just outgrew it?
I found it to be nonproductive, and hindrance if you will.
And yes, laws played a huge part of it when I saw the trouble it caused in my friends lives in pursuing a career.
They all got busted, one lost a good job over it, another was relegated to middle management, and one other got fired just because he couldn't concentrate at work, he quit using and went on to do well in life though.

I see it as a generational thing, my generation pushed for it, then saw the truth.
The next generation tried again, and now this one. Nothing ever changes except perception, and the perception is it's relatively harmless, when in truth, we really don't know, we can only rely on the wisdom of those that experienced the problem and banned drugs.
But one thing history proves time and time again, is that we never learn from history and repeat the mistakes of the past.
Wrong or right, we will have to learn for ourselves.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline kramarat

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2013, 11:00:31 AM »
I found it to be nonproductive, and hindrance if you will.
And yes, laws played a huge part of it when I saw the trouble it caused in my friends lives in pursuing a career.
They all got busted, one lost a good job over it, another was relegated to middle management, and one other got fired just because he couldn't concentrate at work, he quit using and went on to do well in life though.

I see it as a generational thing, my generation pushed for it, then saw the truth.
The next generation tried again, and now this one. Nothing ever changes except perception, and the perception is it's relatively harmless, when in truth, we really don't know, we can only rely on the wisdom of those that experienced the problem and banned drugs.
But one thing history proves time and time again, is that we never learn from history and repeat the mistakes of the past.
Wrong or right, we will have to learn for ourselves.


My take on the whole thing has nothing to do with drugs, but with the freedom of the individual and the constitutional role of government.
I guess it's a libertarian stance, but look at what the left has been able to achieve through nanny state laws.

Not wearing a motorcycle helmet has been criminalized....
Seat belts
Smoking cigarettes
Bloomberg and the food laws
Rules for school lunches
Bicycle helmets
Bullying
Hate speach

Millions of laws:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/18-examples-of-the-nanny-state-gone-wild

I'm more concerned with removing control from government, than I am with busting people for smoking pot, because I don't happen to like it.

Online Solar

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2013, 12:02:27 PM »
My take on the whole thing has nothing to do with drugs, but with the freedom of the individual and the constitutional role of government.
I guess it's a libertarian stance, but look at what the left has been able to achieve through nanny state laws.

Not wearing a motorcycle helmet has been criminalized....
Seat belts
Smoking cigarettes
Bloomberg and the food laws
Rules for school lunches
Bicycle helmets
Bullying
Hate speach

Millions of laws:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/18-examples-of-the-nanny-state-gone-wild

I'm more concerned with removing control from government, than I am with busting people for smoking pot, because I don't happen to like it.

Yes, Govt is extremely hypocritical, cigarettes bad, weed good.
Yet we still have laws re: morality eg. naked in public, etc, and I suspect those will follow suit (no pun intended) as in the Bay area, where they had to write a law telling the naked that ride public transit need to sit on a towel.

I'm just saying we don't need to cave every time someone claims it's a Rights issue.
Koolaid is for kids, TEA is for adults

Offline kramarat

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2013, 12:11:07 PM »
Yes, Govt is extremely hypocritical, cigarettes bad, weed good.
Yet we still have laws re: morality eg. naked in public, etc, and I suspect those will follow suit (no pun intended) as in the Bay area, where they had to write a law telling the naked that ride public transit need to sit on a towel.

I'm just saying we don't need to cave every time someone claims it's a Rights issue.

True. While at the same time recognizing that the government doesn't have rights.

I'll settle for letting it be up to the states, and decided by popular vote.

Offline Balto

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Re: Yay or nay towards marajiuana?
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2013, 01:53:16 PM »
Yes, Govt is extremely hypocritical, cigarettes bad, weed good.
Yet we still have laws re: morality eg. naked in public, etc, and I suspect those will follow suit (no pun intended) as in the Bay area, where they had to write a law telling the naked that ride public transit need to sit on a towel.

I'm just saying we don't need to cave every time someone claims it's a Rights issue.
As long as the libs are in power, they are going to cave in and try to takeover everything they can.

 

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