Yay or nay towards marajiuana?

Started by Balto, January 30, 2013, 08:04:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

raptor5618

I am way past being a young guy but think that we waste too much time trying to stop behavior that is not going to be stopped by a law. I think the view that some drugs are worse than others is no different than the view of those who want to take away guns.  If all drugs were legal most people still would not take them.  When I was in college there was enough pot around that I could probably smoke some every day on some one else's dime.  I did not like the feeling I got so I did not do it. 

Take a look at what the kids are doing.  These drug laws have no effect other than ruining the lives of some who are just being young and dumb and experimenting. Hell our president admits to some serious drug use.  Not going to say that turned out well but becoming the president even if you are the worst ever is still an accomplishment.

Drug use is not without its problems but saying one is good and the other is not so good sort of provides those who want to take away our liberty an argument that cannot be contested.   

Take a heroin addict and an alcoholic and lock them up where there is no chance of getting their drug of choice.  There is a good chance that the alcoholic will die from withdrawal while the heroin addict will probably wish he died but will not. 

I always had the idea that we should have an area that is fenced in where all vices would be legal.  Go do your drugs,  your prostitution and well gambling is now legal but that was part of the original idea.  To get out you have to prove that you are no longer under the influence of any drug.   You know who is in there and you can control what drugs they get so you do not get a batch of bad stuff that kills off a bunch of people and it is away from the rest of society.   
"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Turks

#31
Quote from: kramarat on January 31, 2013, 06:29:41 AM
I go to adult gatherings, (40-50 year olds), where I will drink a couple of whiskey drinks and switch to beer for the rest of the night...........getting a pretty good buzz on. Other people go outside and smoke some pot, because they can't stand the taste or effects of alcohol. I don't have a problem with it.

I can't smoke pot because it makes me instantly stupid and almost falling down. Different strokes for different folks. :wink:


I agree.  I'd rather "blow a joint" (I'm dating myself with that phrase) then sit there drinking liquor.   No hangover and for me and a better overall feeling than one derives from alcohol.

The key is everyone tolerates things differently.  Some can drink but can't smoke.  Some like to smoke but don't like alcohol for whatever reason.

Turks

#32
Quote from: raptor5618 on January 31, 2013, 07:24:05 AM
I am way past being a young guy but think that we waste too much time trying to stop behavior that is not going to be stopped by a law. I think the view that some drugs are worse than others is no different than the view of those who want to take away guns.   If all drugs were legal most people still would not take them.  When I was in college there was enough pot around that I could probably smoke some every day on some one else's dime.  I did not like the feeling I got so I did not do it. 

Take a look at what the kids are doing.  These drug laws have no effect other than ruining the lives of some who are just being young and dumb and experimenting. Hell our president admits to some serious drug use.  Not going to say that turned out well but becoming the president even if you are the worst ever is still an accomplishment.

Drug use is not without its problems but saying one is good and the other is not so good sort of provides those who want to take away our liberty an argument that cannot be contested.   

Take a heroin addict and an alcoholic and lock them up where there is no chance of getting their drug of choice.  There is a good chance that the alcoholic will die from withdrawal while the heroin addict will probably wish he died but will not. 

I always had the idea that we should have an area that is fenced in where all vices would be legal.  Go do your drugs,  your prostitution and well gambling is now legal but that was part of the original idea.  To get out you have to prove that you are no longer under the influence of any drug.   You know who is in there and you can control what drugs they get so you do not get a batch of bad stuff that kills off a bunch of people and it is away from the rest of society.

Just to address that one point.  I'd agree.  Have  more than a couple of beers sounds to some as if it's not so bad.  To say you drank a bottle of Scotch or whatever, eyebrows get raised.

Everything is relative.

Turks

Quote from: kramarat on January 31, 2013, 07:23:38 AM
Me too. It stops at pot though.

I can't get behind the legalization of things like meth or crack. The damage that those drugs cause, (beyond the user), are well documented. Not so with weed.

Again I would agree.  I also listen to people who say pot leads to harder drugs. All I can and will say is after 40 or so years, I have never had the desire to try anything else and I wouldn't call myself a "stoner" but I'm a bit more than just the twice a month smoker.

Again...everyone is different and everyone's tolerance level is different.

Solar

Folks, it's about the tolerance level of society, it shifts with each generation.
Next generation will be demanding opium, heroin, neither of which have ill side effects, much the same as weed. However, there is a reason societies previous to ours outlawed them, they were a detriment to a functioning society.

It's a slippery slope folks, think about the next generation, much like our debt, what we do today, affects their tomorrow.

I know, why don't we do away with all drug laws, after all, it is about freedom, right?
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

kramarat

Quote from: Solar on January 31, 2013, 07:18:14 AM
Some actually do, because different races are effected differently.
Personally I don't care, Pandora's box is open, people will either brew or grow their own.
Morality and shame no longer exists, it used to be embarrassing to have an addiction problem.
Now it's cool to get high? But please, ignore our elders warnings, they were just old white guys after all, what in the fuck did they know?

C'mon Solar, nobody's talking about addiction.

The elders?

You mean the old white guys that used to come home after work and suck down a couple of martinis or scotch and waters and a half pack of smokes before dinner?

Getting high has always been glamorized.


Turks

This is what former generations thought about pot.  Didn't exactly  turn out to be very accurate.

Reefer Madness Trailer Great marijuana movie

raptor5618

I think the reality is that a person who frequently uses drugs including alcohol is not going to be as productive as someone who does not.  I oversaw the drug program for a moderately sized company and they all have a slippery slope.  Some drugs will put you into that downward spiral much quicker with more certainty than others so some of the stronger ones do have an almost guaranteed bad outcome. 

As an aside to this discussion is the other class of drugs that our govt also restricts.  I think that it is outrageous that a person dying of some disease is not able to take some experimental drug until the govt says that they can.  Yes I kind of lean toward a libertarian view which I believe does align with how our founders viewed things.  I think the govt really needs to stay out of our personal lives except for those cases where our actions will harm others.  Now we often hear about how this or that actually harms others by using some wild stretch of the imagination but I think it has to actually be a direct threat to others.  I believe part of the justification for obamacare was that the uninsured harmed us all. 

"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

kramarat

#38
Quote from: Turks on January 31, 2013, 07:47:45 AM
This is what former generations thought about pot.  Didn't exactly  turn out to be very accurate.

Reefer Madness Trailer Great marijuana movie

We should either agree that the government should be in charge of everything we do, based on a government determined social morality, or none of it.






Solar

Hey, I was young once, even pushed a petition drive to legalize weed here in Ca decades ago.
But as I said, I was young, which equates to ignorant dumb ass.

So I ask again, why stop at weed, why not do away with all drug laws, that is, if it'd really about rights and freedoms?
Come on, someone give me a good argument as to why we shouldn't, and don't give me that crap about other drugs are dangerous, because inhibiting reality is what they all have in common, some to a lesser degree, but ALL inhibit reality!

If drugs impairing ones ability to deal with reality, then why stop at weed?
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!

Turks

#40
Quote from: Solar on January 31, 2013, 08:04:13 AM
Hey, I was young once, even pushed a petition drive to legalize weed here in Ca decades ago.
But as I said, I was young, which equates to ignorant dumb ass.

So I ask again, why stop at weed, why not do away with all drug laws, that is, if it'd really about rights and freedoms?
Come on, someone give me a good argument as to why we shouldn't, and don't give me that crap about other drugs are dangerous, because inhibiting reality is what they all have in common, some to a lesser degree, but ALL inhibit reality!

If drugs impairing ones ability to deal with reality, then why stop at weed?


I don't know if there is answer to give you.  This is the same debate as gun control.  Why stop at guns?  Knives kill, baseball bats kill, cars kill.

Society evolves or some might say devolves.  Attitudes change and people's tolerances change.   More people are accepting of legalized pot.  I'm not saying that's a reason to legalize it but it might slightly address what you asked and why it seems states are dropping their objections to it.

I can only relate personal experience and for me personally, I don't have any issue if it was legalized tomorrow.  But again, that doesn't make me right or wrong.

raptor5618

I know you are thinking I am a dumb ass but I think your statement is correct.  Here is why.  I think those who think government is the answer to all our problems use the same argument.  There is a bad outcome be it drug abuse or gun violence.  Neither would be possible if there were no drugs or no guns.  Therefore to eliminate the possibility of the bad outcome ban drugs and guns.  I think that in the case of drugs or guns it kind of is one or the other but always gets watered down to some are good and some are bad.  In both cases where a drug or gun ends up in terms of it being good or bad is subjective and the rationale is often flawed.  It also ignores that often the bad outcome is not a certainty and often time does not happen at all.  Lots of people have guns and do not use them against another human and I know lots of people who are in all kinds of prestigious positions that used drugs at some time in their life including our dear president.  Actually the last three probably.

If it were possible I would wish that there could be an intelligent conversation about a lot of our laws and what ones serve the purpose of protecting society and which ones only serve to limit our freedom.

"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

Balto

Quote from: Solar on January 31, 2013, 08:04:13 AM
Hey, I was young once, even pushed a petition drive to legalize weed here in Ca decades ago.
But as I said, I was young, which equates to ignorant dumb ass.

So I ask again, why stop at weed, why not do away with all drug laws, that is, if it'd really about rights and freedoms?
Come on, someone give me a good argument as to why we shouldn't, and don't give me that crap about other drugs are dangerous, because inhibiting reality is what they all have in common, some to a lesser degree, but ALL inhibit reality!

If drugs impairing ones ability to deal with reality, then why stop at weed?
I'm starting to think I might be the youngest member here lol.

Heroin and meth, depending on how its used, can be a perscription for suicide. I personally believe someone should be able to have a greenhouse, maybe not filled but somewhat full with plants and not have handcuffs put on for it. Why not just arrest someone for growing tropical plants in their greenhouse? Solar, if we legalize many of the hardcore drugs like heroin, crack and meth it will do more bad than good healthwise.

Turks

#43
Quote from: Balto on January 31, 2013, 08:21:46 AM
I'm starting to think I might be the youngest member here lol.

Heroin and meth, depending on how its used, can be a perscription for suicide. I personally believe someone should be able to have a greenhouse, maybe not filled but somewhat full with plants and not have handcuffs put on for it. Why not just arrest someone for growing tropical plants in their greenhouse? Solar, if we legalize many of the hardcore drugs like heroin, crack and meth it will do more bad than good healthwise.

You may have raised a good point to answer Solar.  The effects of pot don't seeem to be as detrimental as the other drugs mentioned.  And as someone pointed out, it actually has medicinal value.  Then again one can say the same for morphine.  Which raise the question should it be legalized for medicinal value or recreational value...and I just don't have that answer.


I'm not looking at it from a personal right's perspective but more from a "how harmeful of a drug is it to society as a whole".

Solar

I think you all know what I'm getting at, our society is a reflection of it's morals, and sadly, the more we tolerate bad behavior, the further we slide into being a non productive society.
Sure, it's only weed, it's harmless right? Wrong, I have known and still know people that simply can't function unless they're high, and they all have something in common, they are simply stupid, they've ruined the cognitive part of their brains.

Point is, society learned long ago all drugs come with varying degrees of problems effecting society at large, rather than laws, they used shame to deter it's use, but shame is no longer allowed in this Nation, in fact, if you shame someone, it's seen as rude and no PC, even regarded as hate speech.

People, do you not see where our society is headed? But it's just weed you say?
Sometimes you just have to say no to children, even if it makes you look like the bad guy, and personally I never did give a damn of what people thought of me because I stood my ground based on morals, and I stand here and you all know I'm right in wanting to draw the line stopping the slippery slope.
Official Trump Cult Member

#WWG1WGA

Q PATRIOT!!!